I was being sarcastic. But I'm not upset. I didn't even think you thought that about Beta. I just felt like saying that.Originally Posted by Warlord
Quite frankly I'm not sure if you are upset and being sarcastic. Or really agreeing with me. Anyway I didn't mean that all beta-NF's are bitchesAnd the raping etc. just seems a recurring theme in some of the beta discussions. I wouldn't say that's what beta's are all about.
i don't get along with anyone on this board. if we are talking about important ideas, i am docile and focused. if we aren't, my inner nature comes out. i like the esfps, but my default mode of interactions is hateful. i think there is a tendency (which i believe has been discussed on other threads) to project certain hidden and negative mental maladaptations onto your dual; particularly when you are dealing with a repressed shadow side. all of the esfps on this board are also fi subtypes, and the fi subtype has always seemed superficial and dumb to me... in real life when i encounter an esfp-fi type the interaction degenerates to me "causing mischief" and undermining their view of the world.. goading negative reactions out of them for my own humor, verbally rejecting their weak ideas, subtly insulting them, and generally having fun exploiting their weakness. the interaction is much different than I have with the se subtype, who is actually smart and not stuck up; and mostly we end up talking about how the world sucks and no one cares about it.. and everyone wants to kill something, be it themselves or others in some removed way. Vaguely, I consider everyone a killer.. where killing takes the form of different socially acceptable actions which lead to the subtle destruction of the world in favor of the self. This hyperawareness of my own negative tendencies (along with others) brings out their honest expression. Along with that, I have a variety of other conscious philosophies and hangups which contribute further to my personality- again, none of this is type related. It is related to the specific content of my mind, derived from specific impressions of the workings of reality ... (the realm of content is something socionics fools like to minimize at every turn, in favor of form). Past observations have proven to me the more intelligent a person is, the more variant their personality. This is true for ILI; and particularly the Ni subtype, where their internal perceptions are all that define their personality (they are unanchored by the external world.. they only look inside for what is real.. where inside means the consistency of what is outside). Basically, ILIs are all pretty different from one another. I am also in the top .001 percent of the population in terms of intelligence. I suspect this has a strong impact on my personality and its comparability with others. Generally i divide quadras into two subquadras- the perceiving subtypes & the judging subtypes. With gamma, I get along extraordinarily with the perceiving subtype subquadra... with the judging subtypes, I am left with the impression they are in a delusional static state of opinion. I can get along with them well in everyday real world interactions, but if this interaction extends into my personal life there will be conflict.. they will try and defend their stance toward the way things are and impose it onto me, I will try to theoretically and verbally undermine it, then tell them to fuck off... and so fourth. in everyday life my default thought process is relatively hateful.. this does not show externally, and i keep it hidden, because there is no use in struggling against what is impossible to overcome.. this will inevitably result in degrading your personal situation. over the internet i am establishing a link with my internal mind which is abnormal and not regularly seen in everyday interaction. this clouds the ability of regular social order as defined by intertype relations to properly transfer and define this situation. there are a variety of reasons which may be able to explain my mentally destructive tendencies, but they are not directly type related.. they are more environmentally related. beyond this, i wasn't aware castration was a beta thought... i'll have to take note of that. finally, since you are actively trying to overthrow my self-typing via internet observations and a clearly self-centered understanding of the concept of ILI; most of which seems more socially oriented then theoretically oriented; and with a subtle focus on preserving your corrupted fantasy ideals of ILI, i am mentally crowning you a dumbass.
Last edited by crazedrat; 07-26-2008 at 01:23 AM.
maybe these Se subtype you get along with more is actually ESTp Se.........
when I direct conversation at you or interact with you...you don't really shatter my world view...you don't even rattle it....you're accusations and hostile questions give me challenging amusement...but other than that...meh. dealing with you is like dealing with a diluted version of my roommate.
it is extremely ignorant to categorize Fi subtypes as more or less intelligent than Se subtypes...it just doesn't make any sense. i don't really see how i (or any other ESFp I know of) act stuck up either, however...I do spend an extraordinary amount of time with beta...and that is how they normally perceive me when im being opinionated (Fi driven opinions, expressed with Se which makes them all rattled up and uncomfortable because i make it plain and in their face) they are first pissed off by it because it sounds as if im correcting them and acting like i know better. and then when i don't back down they start to get intimidated because im not effected by their emotional bullshit they use to try to tear down a solid opinion based on facts. they try to use the crowd against you as if this is a valid win to an argument...the crowd is convinced that i sound better so this makes me right.
SEE Unknown Subtype
6w7 sx/so
[21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
[21:29] hitta: and not dying
.
it is rediculous how you can create information to support a preconceived opinion, and then shape this information so that it all supports itself in an arbitrary way... and each part speaks up for the other parts and develops an elaborate convoluted web of reasoning for the idea at hand; but all along there is no actual information in reality that is a part of what you are saying which is relevant to what is being discussed.maybe these Se subtype you get along with more is actually ESTp Se.........
when I direct conversation at you or interact with you...you don't really shatter my world view...you don't even rattle it....you're accusations and hostile questions give me challenging amusement...but other than that...meh. dealing with you is like dealing with a diluted version of my roommate.
it is extremely ignorant to categorize Fi subtypes as more or less intelligent than Se subtypes...it just doesn't make any sense. i don't really see how i (or any other ESFp I know of) act stuck up either, however...I do spend an extraordinary amount of time with beta...and that is how they normally perceive me when im being opinionated (Fi driven opinions, expressed with Se which makes them all rattled up and uncomfortable because i make it plain and in their face) they are first pissed off by it because it sounds as if im correcting them and acting like i know better. and then when i don't back down they start to get intimidated because im not effected by their emotional bullshit they use to try to tear down a solid opinion based on facts. they try to use the crowd against you as if this is a valid win to an argument...the crowd is convinced that i sound better so this makes me right.
For example, what you said is true about beta... they would naturally think you're stuck up for those reasons.
But you are putting fucking words in my mouth. I did not say you were stuck up, I used different language; and most importantly i didnt remotely imply you were stuck up in the nature which you are describing beta as perceiving you as. So what this means, is that everything you have said is part of a fantasy you are creating. I said you had a self-centered mind. This means you have difficulty looking outside of your own opinions. This is essentially the difference between a judging temperament and a perceiving temperament. This statement of ESFP-fi having a self centered mind is valid only if being thought of relative to ESFP-se. It is not a statement concerning the general tendencies of ESFP-fis and their relations to the rest of the socion. That is why I included it in a paragraph primarily focused on comparing ESFP-fi to ESFP-se, right?
The assertion you have a self centered mind is supported ~right now in front of our eyes~ by your rediculous insinuations I am mistyping myself, and that you-fucking-know-more-about-me-than-i-do. ...This idea is insane, and retarded. Every second you hold onto it and try and make it "work" for you, you become a little more retarded. You are making a statement in time about who you are as a person, right now; and that you are fucking retarded.
the esfp i grew up with and have known for 20 years. she is not estp. end of story. no need for me to give you an "intelligent reply" and explain to you why and how i have known this girl for 20 years; and demonstrate every detail of why she is esfp in comparison with estp. if i did this, you would ignore me. if i did this, it would also be pointless because ~you know absolutely nothing about this girl, you do not even know her name~. Do you understand how retarded this is? You give an opinion on this girls type, yet you do not know one thing about her.
the reason i began discussing esfp-fis mental weakness was to explain things which were brought up regarding my interactions with esfps on this board. i did not actively seek out this discussion, and if you are going to ask stupid questions then expect stupid answers.
most of the time the things you are discussing, khamelion, like my supposed betaness which you have derived from (like i said earlier) flawed observations... well, they are two things:
1: mostly speculative, having to do more with you working out some personal confusion you have
2: boring / irrelevant.. example, you debating me on my own quadra. i do not feel like gathering evidence and presenting it to you as if you're some fucking jury. and if you think an ILI always has to do this.. then you must think ILI is a fucking tool
Here is how it goes
i type out a whole explanation.........
khamelion: hey, maybe the esfp is actually estp! that would mean that nothing you just said matters at all and i don't have to change my goddamn mind because that would require too much effort and might force me to grapple with real world evidence and facts and stuff which is too much!
....
yeah, that's all that thought does for this situation. Allows you to ignore me and continue to be a dumbass.
k, then add in words to like "definitely" and "very" and "obviously" and "completely" and... you have your paragraph.
The-fucking-end.
OMG, not an intelligent reply! No ILI!
if you want an intelligent reply, its up there.. you erased it all and put in "a bunch of reasons why crazedrat is depressed"
K, closing comments- fuck off and leave me alone
Last edited by crazedrat; 07-26-2008 at 02:20 PM.
You have misconstrued one thing I said and ran with it (something I'm used to dealing with)...the whole Se/Fi subtype thing....and it isn't worth putting in the effort to sift through that so called "intelligent reply" to argue each point.
You were the one making strange and ignorant conclusions about subtypes intelligence levels...I was merely pointing out its ignorance and close-mindedness. I didn't even read your "intelligent reply" because the more I read the more it sounded like you whining about how you hate the world because it's done you wrong.
I haven't attempted to type your friend at all what so ever...or denied her type...I didn't even know we were talking about one person for that matter. You made a blanket statement about Se/Fi subtypes...not one specific friend. (Then again I didn't really read all that you wrote, but I also didn't address that anyways so my not reading it is irrelevant.)
You are waaaaaaaaaaayyyy off about me not being able to see past my own opinions...you'd couldn't have it more wrong there. It's hilariously wrong, actually. I'm actually flattered because I've gone through a time (around here actually) where most people thought I didn't have any of my own opinions...so sweet. I've fixed that obviously.
I didn't really enforce my opinions that strongly...I didn't impose them....I didn't attack you saying you ARE a certain type and thats that....so having so much anger and hostility towards me doesn't really make sense. It shows that you feel threatened...which also doesn't make any sense. I never understand why people become threatened when I merely state ideas or notions of opinions....the world falls down whenever I REALLY state a solid opinion....its just MY thought....just Khamelion's random thought....it isn't that serious...it isn't the end of the world....the world isn't out to get you....calm responses work too. There isn't any need for a fight quite yet....its like only one side of this is a heated argument.
I could care less about your type, I just think it's fun to reply to your hostile attacks every so often...at least a little stimulating. Fuck off and leave you alone? If I remember correctly...you're the one who picked on my comment in the first place....
SEE Unknown Subtype
6w7 sx/so
[21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
[21:29] hitta: and not dying
.
Your inner nature = your type = INFp.
Your type isn't the stereotype you identify with.
You soaking up emotions, and then releasing them like you describe. Is typical of INFp's, they have IP-temperament. INFp's aren't ENFj's.
Default mode of interaction of an INTp would be unemotional and trying to get along with people they like. Despite how hateful they are. INFp's however are emotionally motivated.i like the esfps, but my default mode of interactions is hateful.
No they are not. At least Hoodrat seems more like Se-subtype. And actually it's very inaccurate to try to claim any of them being of any subtype, we can't realistically be even certain about their type. To you types seem to be what you want them to be, not a matter of realistic observation. And then you make half-assed attempts at Ti to explain something with these false sub-typings.all of the esfps on this board are also fi subtypes
The ones you describe as "ESFp-se" are ESTp's. The ones you describe as "ESFp-fi" actually seemed more like ESFp-se, ESFp-fi are the ones who are comparitevely nicer and less likely to have fun at other people's expence. Both subtype ESFp's appear just as "dumb" if we speak of a generic person of some type.
Your speaking about subtypes and attempt to explain something, is cop-out so you don't have to face the facts. Subtype difference's in reality won't make that much of difference in relationships, nowhere near to extent that you describe.
That is Fe. INTp's are very little aware of their negative tendencies. And even more clueless about others.This hyperawareness of my own negative tendencies (along with others) brings out their honest expression.
Using word killer has only a emotional content and is an attempt to influence other peoples emotions. You are trying cause some kind of "uh oh he considers people to be KILLERS!"-reaction. I consider a person to be area of quark and fundamental force interactions, perceived as a person by another similar areaVaguely, I consider everyone a killer.. where killing takes the form of different socially acceptable actions which lead to the subtle destruction of the world in favor of the self.
You consider them to more intelligent on what basis? I doubt that variance of personality has nothing to do with intelligence.Past observations have proven to me the more intelligent a person is, the more variant their personality.
That's just as true to many other introverted types. INFp's included.This is true for ILI; and particularly the Ni subtype, where their internal perceptions are all that define their personality (they are unanchored by the external world.. they only look inside for what is real.. where inside means the consistency of what is outside).
Perhaps, but being the same or different isn't in the question here. But what functions you mostly use, are strong at, what you value and your intertype relations.Basically, ILIs are all pretty different from one another.
That's what INFp could say, unlikely to how INTp would see it. As for INFp it's comparative & semi-dual (perceivers) VS supervisery & benefactory (judgers).With gamma, I get along extraordinarily with the perceiving subtype subquadra... with the judging subtypes, I am left with the impression they are in a delusional static state of opinion.
And still haven't learned to write well enough to even pass the required standards of Finnish high-schoolers? You just have delusions of grandeur.I am also in the top .001 percent of the population in terms of intelligence.
Just more emotionality there, and very little factuality. You just jumped on those conclusions because you liked it better that way. As you should see, my claims are based on your consistent behaviour, and on how you describe yourself. Can't you see how well everything just clicks on you being INFp?since you are actively trying to overthrow my self-typing via internet observations and a clearly self-centered understanding of the concept of ILI; most of which seems more socially oriented then theoretically oriented;
If it was matter of some other function than Fe, I would agree that it's just matter of internet observations.
Writing emotional long-winding posts, with unrealistic assumptions about the world based on your beliefs. Isn't going convince that you are Te-creative.
Last edited by Warlord; 07-26-2008 at 05:56 PM.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
This had been my suspicion as well.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
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