For fuck's sake, Gilly, talk about presuming things. I am an EII. THEREFORE IEIs strike *me* as more pretentious than EIIs. It's called Socionics.Originally Posted by Gilly
So there are no pretentious EIIs? Lack of pretense points away from IEI? Wow, your typing criteria are dead on...Fuck, you keep saying shit like this and you're the next on that list.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Well, first off, you're an IEE.
Secondly, if you think that getting some kind of automatic impression of types from your conflicting Quadra is part of Socionics, you're another step closer to the list. People MARRY their conflictors all the time, and I don't imagine people marry someone they think is pretentious or an intellectual fraud.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
OK so I got the letters wrong.
People do not marry their conflictors "all the time" - that's bullshit. And I am much more likely to think someone from a conflicting quadra is pretentious than my mirror.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
this seems pretty offensive...wtfWell, I don't really know why I read threads I am uncomfortable with. I guess it's like when someone's crying in public. You just have to look and see what's wrong, but when you do, you don't really know what to say, except maybe crack a joke and hope they laugh and stop crying. And althouhg you didn't explicitly ask those particular questions, I got the feeling those were the things that were really bothering you about the INFp's behavior.
as does this...Now, I am not saying diamond is necessarily a Fi type, but it may be a sensitive area for her coming out of a relationship with an ESTp with a serious Fi-deficit.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Are you just pulling this out of your ass? How would you know whether or not I have tested my "theories" against practical experience or not? I've had diologue with you on an extremely narrow range of topics.
In the spirituality thread, I was trying desperately to be open-minded and inclusive. I even told you I respected your faith (even though I couldn't agree with it). The discussion should have ended there. No fruitful dialogue was possible past that point. But then YOU kept coming back to ME, touting the Christian apolegetics and your dissilusionment with "flawed science" that left you "weak." I listened to your point of view. I did not agree with it, but I respected it. However, I have no obligation to "integrate" your point of view with mine, which is what you were essentially trying to get me to do.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
And this isn't?
Oh, I guess I forgot to write "FWIW, it's just my POV" at the end to soften the blow of any potential offense.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
you wanna mix it up motherfucker? bring it on!
tell me i'm crying in the corner try to make me seem all weak? screw you, man.
tell me something, baby. how long have you worked?
how many adult relationships have you been in?
how much have you been spiritually tested in your life?
how much adversity have you had to endure?
wait i have an idea: why don't you get some humility and open your mind just a crack so something besides your books and articles can get through?
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
actually i'm not. you don't back up your assertions with real life examples. and you don't respond to real life examples.Are you just pulling this out of your ass? How would you know whether or not I have tested my "theories" against practical experience or not? I've had diologue with you on an extremely narrow range of topics.
desparately huh? lol. gosh i know it's hard for ya. who said anything about obligation, anyway? i pointed out that you don't integrate and this seems narrow minded at times. i certainly did keep coming back at you because you did not appear to be listening and because there was a certain level of condescension in your replies!In the spirituality thread, I was trying desperately to be open-minded and inclusive. I even told you I respected your faith (even though I couldn't agree with it). The discussion should have ended there. No fruitful dialogue was possible past that point. But then YOU kept coming back to ME, touting the Christian apolegetics and your dissilusionment with "flawed science" that left you "weak." I listened to your point of view. I did not agree with it, but I respected it. However, I have no obligation to "integrate" your point of view with mine, which is what you were essentially trying to get me to do.
and, i certainly don't try to soften the blow...there's really no way to soften it is there?
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
sorry Gilly... this quote bumps yours out of my sig X 10000000000you wanna mix it up motherfucker? bring it on!
tell me i'm crying in the corner try to make me seem all weak? screw you, man.
tell me something, baby. how long have you worked?
how many adult relationships have you been in?
how much have you been spiritually tested in your life?
how much adversity have you had to endure?
wait i have an idea: why don't you get some humility and open your mind just a crack so something besides your books and articles can get through?
diamond8: did I, on any of those topics, ever attempt to negate the value of your input? I just offered my limited experience, which sometimes was at odds with yours. That, in no way, detracts from your experience. I never outright said "listen to diamond8; she's more experienced than me" but I don't think I should have to do that. People know who is talking to them, and with what qualifications. Your experience speaks for itself in those threads and the fact that some scraggly youngin' doesn't agree with you and has not had experiences that are in alignment with yours doesn't detract from what you have to say.you wanna mix it up motherfucker? bring it on!
tell me i'm crying in the corner try to make me seem all weak? screw you, man.
tell me something, baby. how long have you worked?
how many adult relationships have you been in?
how much have you been spiritually tested in your life?
how much adversity have you had to endure?
wait i have an idea: why don't you get some humility and open your mind just a crack so something besides your books and articles can get through?
And no. I don't want to fight with you.
You're right. I don't really think in terms of real life. I think in terms of my inner life, short as it is. I am terrible at calling up examples on the spot of actual occurences because what actually happens doesn't matter so much to me as the impression that I get from it. I may need to change my focus a bit.
If I came across as condescending, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. The topic was completely impersonal. I merely disagreed with you. I just cannot see myself looking to religion for answers in the same way you have anytime in the future. I, and many others, am comfortable with not having answers. Maybe someday adversity will make it too difficult not to have the answers, but at this point, not so much.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Also, thanks Gilly and SlackerMom. (And Scarlett for the bear hug, lol.)
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
well i am indeed impressed. i know, hard to believe.
only one point: i don't need you to believe what i believe. and i never said you were a whippersnapper, either. but i like the dialogue better when i feel like i'm getting through and when the other person is getting through to me. and i think this kind of dialogue lends itself to more discovery and truth. AND you do make some very good points, if i neglected to mention that.
it is nice that some other members supported you...however, it was not my perception that you needed support. i have no doubt that you are able to stand alone in your positions about things.
to bring this all back to the question of your type, i was mistaken that you are intp. my Ne picked up on friction that i attributed to an intertype relation.
*offers right hand for shake*
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Ok, nice that you've formed that little subjective tag based on your personal experience...but you make it sound like thinking someone isn't pretentious is serious evidence for someone's type. "Auvi is EII>IEI because I don't find him pretentious."OK so I got the letters wrong.
People do not marry their conflictors "all the time" - that's bullshit. And I am much more likely to think someone from a conflicting quadra is pretentious than my mirror.
As for my statement about Conflictors...How can you falsify that? There's plenty that says that they do; just ask Diana. After all, type isn't everything...
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
How can you prove it's true? Diana did, and is now divorced. I also know an ENFp who was not married but living with an ISTj and they had a child together. They are also not together anymore. People marry for all kinds of reasons but I don't think it happens very often compared to marriages between people of more complimentary types. And yes, it's from what I've seen. If you've seen otherwise, then I guess we just have different experiences.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
and subjective tags are by definition based on personal experience FFS. And what's wrong with using personal experience? And how we react to people? Socionics is based on relationships between people. I don't see how you don't think relationships are a valid thing to look at.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
I agree, so if I came across as obstinate/narrow-minded, I'm sorry. I was listening to what you said. I still can't see it completely from your point of view (yet?) but I never had any doubt what you were saying was very true and real for you and something I should take note of and into consideration.
*shakes*
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Does anyone else see how shockingly contradictory this is? You claim I'm wrong, then cite two examples that prove me right? What are you thinking, Nicky? That's just plain old self-defeating!
Sure it doesn't happen as much as marriages between other types, but you can't deny that conflictor marriages obviously happen. I'm not claiming they're EVERYWHERE, but I don't think that's a good reason to make these little vibes of pretence solid evidence for someone's type...People marry for all kinds of reasons but I don't think it happens very often compared to marriages between people of more complimentary types. And yes, it's from what I've seen. If you've seen otherwise, then I guess we just have different experiences.
I'm not saying you shouldn't use your personal experience, but I didn't see you citing any other reasons in that post, so I was compelled to reply.
And..ummm...by the way...
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
*shakes**waits to see what's in diamond's left hand*
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
well i appreciate that and i am sorry if i was a little too, er, venomous. *slithers off*I agree, so if I came across as obstinate/narrow-minded, I'm sorry. I was listening to what you said. I still can't see it completely from your point of view (yet?) but I never had any doubt what you were saying was very true and real for you and something I should take note of and into consideration.
*shakes*
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
