Okay, I'll Bite

[Transigent]

One thing though is I will NEVER EVER think that you are INFp EVER.

But what does that mean? That you are sure he's INFj? What do you see as being so absolutely non-INFp about him?

I can't talk about it, I am being stifled by the Auvian Government. But let me bring up some unrelated things.

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Animal]

So rather than go into pseudo-deep analysis of whether your introversion is mostly Ni-focused or Fi-focused with a touch of Ne, the safest way is precisely what you described: which is your dual, or your confictor, ESTp or ESTj?

Yes. The trouble is this is one of the few instances where words fail me. I can feel the difference between ESTjs and ESTps, but I can't verbalize it very well at all.

I just know that one is the sort of person I can "play" with and be frivolous and superficially snarky and bitchy and unproductive with without being made to feel like there's something wrong with me and that I should be doing something else with my time. The other makes me uncomfortable. Doesn't laugh at my jokes. Talks too much of work. Doesn't seem to understand me when I say something. The former can loosen me up instantly by just his/her over-the-top presence. With the latter I feel like I'm walking on eggshells because s/he is so low-key and could I "break" them any minute.

Which is which? Can you tell?

@Transigent: I'm sorry for blowing up at you. But what set me off was this sort of thing:

ZOMG SUPERVISION WOOMP DE WHOOMP!

One thing though is I will NEVER EVER think that you are INFp EVER

I can't talk about it, I am being stifled by the Auvian Government. But let me bring up some unrelated things.

It's like, no matter what I can ever say to you, you'll never be open to the possibility that you're... yaknow... wrong? That bothers me. Anyways, on the other hand I knew you were joking and just having some fun. I wouldn't have minded so much if you weren't such a flaming prick about it, and could at least entertain the notion that I might have some clue as to what I'm talking about.

How about ESFp for Baby.

Somehow, I doubt my dual is an INTp.

[Gilly]

WAAAHHHHHH I GOT PWNED

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Gilly]

How about ESFp for Baby. There is definitely some Se there...

Did you watch his video?

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Gilly]

*edited due to offensive language*

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Gilly]

Care to prove it?

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Gilly]

What are you talking about?

I asked one question and said a couple things afterwards. I fail to see how that constitutes a "reprimand" from your arrogant ass. If you ACTUALLY cared so fucking much about Auvi's thread being on topic, you'd "be the bigger person" and just ignore me altogether. Put that in your self-righteous pipe and smoke it.

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Sentineneve]

[Gilly]

...what the fuck? You're not making any sense at all. I still don't see where you get off on saying I'm taking over this thread. YOU are the one who has turned this into a long, drawn-out ordeal, you raging hypocrite. Like I said, if you care so much about this thread not getting off-topic, as you have claimed to, then just drop it.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Gilly]

*does the no pants dance*

[Kim]

I could see Auvi as INFj, but something is off there and I don't quite know what. I do think he is beta and he seems to
really like ESTps. I am sure that Auvi needs EP temperament rather than EJ.

I will say that when I converse with Auvi, I feel like we are on the same wavelength and I usually don't experience that
with INFps (although there has been one other INFp with whom I get along like that). We are usually on the same page when it comes to people and their behavior and we are bothered by the same things that go on here. That would point to INFj, but he just is not...

I also do not think he has an Se PoLR. I can see Auvi with someone telling him: "Ah, come on, of
course you can do it. Just do it!" than someone who says: "Here, I will show you how to do it."

Auvi is hard to type because he is extremely insightful and will not limit himself to bragging with his ego-block functions and whining dramatically about
his PoLR (I think both is rather common around here). And I will say that I love his Fe because it is is so effective and positive. And it seems to come so naturally.

I say INFp.

[Kim]

This thread is both awesome and makes me want to murder myself at the same time.

That's beta AND INFp for you. Beautiful!

[Animal]

Thanks Kim.

I also do not think he has an Se PoLR. I can see Auvi with someone telling him: "Ah, come on, of
course you can do it. Just do it!" than someone who says: "Here, I will show you how to do it."

With the former, you have the option of saying "Hell no!" or doing whatever it is
in an unexpected way. With the latter, I'd feel obligated to actually have to do what they demonstrate, and in the way they demonstrate it. I needs me my autonomy.

[Blaze]

interesting that you should question your type, esp since i was kinda questioning it too. since i get some vibe from you that's not great, (no offense) i was thinking some type of gamma. but i spose infj could fit.

ok so everybody's made up their mind including baby but well i just hafta say that you definitely don't feel like an infj to me. but you could be an intp. usually i get along really well with infp's....and i so don't with you baby, :wink: FWIW. whatever.

what the hell difference does type really make anyway? i mean we totally obsess over type here. it's such a fucking label.

[Animal]

interesting that you should question your type, esp since i was kinda questioning it too. since i get some vibe from you that's not great, (no offense) i was thinking some type of gamma. but i spose infj could fit.

ok so everybody's made up their mind including baby but well i just hafta say that you definitely don't feel like an infj to me. but you could be an intp. usually i get along really well with infp's....and i so don't with you baby, :wink: FWIW. whatever.

what the hell difference does type really make anyway? i mean we totally obsess over type here. it's such a fucking label.

You think I have a Fe-PoLR? Interesting.

In the few discussions we've had, we definitely have some disagreements. I don't know that that indicates we're necessarily contraries, though. I get a slightly anxious and distressed vibe from your posts sometimes, though (esp. those that deal with your relationship troubles); you tend to get preoccupied with the sort of things that I'm uncomfortable dwelling on, so I guess I might have tried to get you to move on in a different direction.

[Blaze]

interesting that you should question your type, esp since i was kinda questioning it too. since i get some vibe from you that's not great, (no offense) i was thinking some type of gamma. but i spose infj could fit.

ok so everybody's made up their mind including baby but well i just hafta say that you definitely don't feel like an infj to me. but you could be an intp. usually i get along really well with infp's....and i so don't with you baby, :wink: FWIW. whatever.

what the hell difference does type really make anyway? i mean we totally obsess over type here. it's such a fucking label.

You think I have a Fe-PoLR? Interesting.

In the few discussions we've had, we definitely have some disagreements. I don't know that that indicates we're necessarily contraries, though. I get a slightly angsty vibe from your posts sometimes, though; you tend to get preoccupied with the sort of things that I'm uncomfortable dwelling on, so I guess I might have tried to get you to move on in a different direction.

angst? lol that's funny.

what things are you uncomfortable dwelling on?

[Animal]

Well, like your relationship thread about when the INFp wouldn't call you and you were questioning his feelings for you and the state of the relationship. I usually don't like to think so much about that sort of thing, and so tried to derail the thread a little with the joke about drugs and masturbation (which, in retrospect, was probably in poor taste).

I get uncomfortable when people ask questions like "Do you think he really loves me?" Or "What's going on between us?" and such. I find myself unable to answer those questions. People behave differently for different reasons, and there's no way to tell what state the relationship is in from just a gesture or a sentence. The relationship is the thread of interaction between you and your partner. Obviously, there was a period of disconnect, but you can and should pick it up if you really like the guy (which is what you did, in the end, and it worked out I think). There was another thread before that where you said you were swearing off men or something because of a bad experience with an ESTp that made me uncomfortable for the same reasons.

Also, I think you might be thinking of the "valley of the shadow of death" thread. I tried very hard to keep my posts as "secular" as possible, while still being open to the concept of spirituality. I respect your faith in Christ but that's not a level on which I can have any meaningful discussion with you. You have obviously made a personal connection with the God/Christ of the Bible. But I don't have that connection, and the discussion would become inaccesible to others who don't share that connection either. It closes off any other possibilities, and it closes off a large part of the spiritual world that many non-Christians know and experience.

[Blaze]

yeah i guess, except i don't think i asked those questions. the question was more what should be done. why would you even read the thread, though if you don't want to discuss relationships. and the dynamics was the point, too. and the spirituality. you must have missed that.

you know what though baby? socionics is about relationships....

but when i think of disagreements we have had i think more about the one on career, and the one on spirituality which we are currently having. my perception of your posts in these areas is they show evidence of Te. although you do seem to like to put together popularity/voting threads which activate people, i'm not sure this is Fe though. sometimes you seem condescending and holier-than-thou. no offense this is just how i react to you .... and i don't react this way to the host of other infp's around here and IRL.

[Animal]

yeah i guess, except i don't think i asked those questions. the question was more what should be done. why would you even read the thread, though if you don't want to discuss relationships. and the dynamics was the point, too. and the spirituality. you must have missed that.

you know what though baby? socionics is about relationships....

but when i think of disagreements we have had i think more about the one on career, and the one on spirituality which we are currently having. my perception of your posts in these areas is they show evidence of Te. although you do seem to like to put together popularity/voting threads which activate people, i'm not sure this is Fe though. sometimes you seem condescending and holier-than-thou. no offense this is just how i react to you .... and i don't react this way to the host of other infp's around here and IRL.

Hm... I'll need to think about this a little bit before I can respond.

[Elro]

but when i think of disagreements we have had i think more about the one on career, and the one on spirituality which we are currently having. my perception of your posts in these areas is they show evidence of Te.

How so? What do you view Te to represent?

[Megan]

but when i think of disagreements we have had i think more about the one on career, and the one on spirituality which we are currently having. my perception of your posts in these areas is they show evidence of Te.

How so? What do you view Te to represent?

I think diamond is good at picking up on things so I am wondering about this as well. Also, because Baby is an INFp (which I also think he is) that does not mean he does not or cannot use at all. At least that is not how I understand the polr to work and he does use an awful lot of anyway IMO.

[Animal]

The more I look back on my discussions with diamond, the more I think our disagreement might actually stem from Fe vs. Fi... does anyone else see this? Maybe my Fe might come across to her as Te? I'm pretty sure that what I'm talking about in my post on the page before this one is mostly dealing with the ethics dichotomy.

For reference, here are the discussions she'd mentioned:
- On careers: http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...=11178&start=0
- The relationship thread: http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...=12993&start=0
- The religion thread: http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...13169&start=45

Now, I am not saying diamond is necessarily a Fi type, but it may be a sensitive area for her coming out of a relationship with an ESTp with a serious Fi-deficit.

[Slacker]

You said, "Live to work - don't work to live". That's so Delta! That whole thread was Ne Ne Ne Ne! Which I know Ni types do well too but still - you could almost be ENFp.

I need to read the other threads. You know yourself better than anyone else knows you, and I feel confident you know Socionics well enough to figure out your type, so if you say you're INFp I'll believe you. But I can't help seeing some Delta in you.

[Animal]

Is the desire to pursue a career in something you love doing really just a Delta thing? Right now I'm definitely "working to live to eventually live to work." lol. I've been putting up with a thankless cubicle-job to save up enough for music equipment. I've shamed my conservative parents by wanting to be a musician.

I don't know how to make an anchored link, but this is my interpretation of the other two threads here:

Well, like your relationship thread about when the INFp wouldn't call you and you were questioning his feelings for you and the state of the relationship. I usually don't like to think so much about that sort of thing, and so tried to derail the thread a little with the joke about drugs and masturbation (which, in retrospect, was probably in poor taste).

I get uncomfortable when people ask questions like "Do you think he really loves me?" Or "What's going on between us?" and such. I find myself unable to answer those questions. People behave differently for different reasons, and there's no way to tell what state the relationship is in from just a gesture or a sentence. The relationship is the thread of interaction between you and your partner. Obviously, there was a period of disconnect, but you can and should pick it up if you really like the guy (which is what you did, in the end, and it worked out I think). There was another thread before that where you said you were swearing off men or something because of a bad experience with an ESTp that made me uncomfortable for the same reasons.

Also, I think you might be thinking of the "valley of the shadow of death" thread. I tried very hard to keep my posts as "secular" as possible, while still being open to the concept of spirituality. I respect your faith in Christ but that's not a level on which I can have any meaningful discussion with you. You have obviously made a personal connection with the God/Christ of the Bible. But I don't have that connection, and the discussion would become inaccesible to others who don't share that connection either. It closes off any other possibilities, and it closes off a large part of the spiritual world that many non-Christians know and experience.

[Slacker]

That still looks like Ne dominance to me.

The second thread you linked didn't do much for me, and my eyes glazed over during the religious thread, so thanks for the pasted bit.

The work to live thing struck me because once upon a time, when my daughter was a tiny baby, my husband came home from work and said he'd had an epiphany. He did not want to live to work, he wanted to work to live. Therefore, he didn't want to go into management - he wasn't willing to work that hard or that much. It isn't necessarily just a Delta thing of course but it doesn't sound particularly like someone who comes from a quadra that values Se to me.

[Animal]

yeah i guess, except i don't think i asked those questions. the question was more what should be done. why would you even read the thread, though if you don't want to discuss relationships. and the dynamics was the point, too. and the spirituality. you must have missed that.

Well, I don't really know why I read threads I am uncomfortable with. I guess it's like when someone's crying in public. You just have to look and see what's wrong, but when you do, you don't really know what to say, except maybe crack a joke and hope they laugh and stop crying. And althouhg you didn't explicitly ask those particular questions, I got the feeling those were the things that were really bothering you about the INFp's behavior.

[Slacker]

Well, the idea of "work to live, don't live to work" is that you work as hard as you have to to allow you to live in a way that is comfortable, but you don't work harder to achieve power or social status or to get a nicer car or house or whatever reasons people have for working constantly when they're already comfortable. So work to live = work enough to live comfortably. Don't live to work = don't spend all your time working - don't work beyond what you need to to be comfortable. It seems like a very Si > Se concept to me.

[Megan]

That still looks like Ne dominance to me.

The second thread you linked didn't do much for me, and my eyes glazed over during the religious thread, so thanks for the pasted bit.

The work to live thing struck me because once upon a time, when my daughter was a tiny baby, my husband came home from work and said he'd had an epiphany. He did not want to live to work, he wanted to work to live. Therefore, he didn't want to go into management - he wasn't willing to work that hard or that much. It isn't necessarily just a Delta thing of course but it doesn't sound particularly like someone who comes from a quadra that values Se to me.

I honestly do not think that is in any way connected to Delta. There really are not many people from any quadra who want to live to work.

[Slacker]

That still looks like Ne dominance to me.

The second thread you linked didn't do much for me, and my eyes glazed over during the religious thread, so thanks for the pasted bit.

The work to live thing struck me because once upon a time, when my daughter was a tiny baby, my husband came home from work and said he'd had an epiphany. He did not want to live to work, he wanted to work to live. Therefore, he didn't want to go into management - he wasn't willing to work that hard or that much. It isn't necessarily just a Delta thing of course but it doesn't sound particularly like someone who comes from a quadra that values Se to me.

I honestly do not think that is in any way connected to Delta. There really are not many people from any quadra who want to live to work.

I know lots of people who live to achieve - to get more - to simply have a higher rank. They get to work early and stay at work late and don't need to, but they want to keep moving up the ladder even though they all ready have plenty of money. There are *tons* of people like that.

[Animal]

Well, the idea of "work to live, don't live to work" is that you work as hard as you have to to allow you to live in a way that is comfortable, but you don't work harder to achieve power or social status or to get a nicer car or house or whatever reasons people have for working constantly when they're already comfortable. So work to live = work enough to live comfortably. Don't live to work = don't spend all your time working - don't work beyond what you need to to be comfortable. It seems like a very Si > Se concept to me.

I think I'll need some time to get my head around this post, lol.

My definitions are as follows:
"work to live" = you work a job that will allow you to make end's meet - pay for what you need and keep you occupied from 9-5 but work does not mix with the rest of your life

"live to work" = you need to know that your job is an extension of the person you are and the sort of life you want to live; you are willing to sacrifice the comfort you have for more possibilities in the work that you enjoy

Is that the same as what you meant Nicky?

[Megan]

That still looks like Ne dominance to me.

The second thread you linked didn't do much for me, and my eyes glazed over during the religious thread, so thanks for the pasted bit.

The work to live thing struck me because once upon a time, when my daughter was a tiny baby, my husband came home from work and said he'd had an epiphany. He did not want to live to work, he wanted to work to live. Therefore, he didn't want to go into management - he wasn't willing to work that hard or that much. It isn't necessarily just a Delta thing of course but it doesn't sound particularly like someone who comes from a quadra that values Se to me.

I honestly do not think that is in any way connected to Delta. There really are not many people from any quadra who want to live to work.

I know lots of people who live to achieve - to get more - to simply have a higher rank. They get to work early and stay at work late and don't need to, but they want to keep moving up the ladder even though they all ready have plenty of money. There are *tons* of people like that.

That is true. However, there are people like some ESTjs who are very focused on getting a higher rank, they work hard and very long hours doing this because they desire to move up the ladder and have even more money. The atitude you are describing could be an NF thing or be connected to irrationality or some other thing. i certainly do not see it as much evidence to support Baby valuing far more than the average INFp values it in a role function position.

[anndelise]

I know an INFp that doesn't believe in "working". He figures he should get paid for playing.

[Animal]

I know an INFp that doesn't believe in "working". He figures he should get paid for playing.

That is awesome.

[UDP]

I know an INFp that doesn't believe in "working". He figures he should get paid for playing.

That is awesome.

I know an INFj who could not stand not lazing around all day, and I think that individual is awesome for such beliefs.