VI- INTj or INTp?

[Joy]

Pretty much we just haven't been talking much lately. We still watch anime together. I've been wondering if perhaps he's not doing well becuase I'm not right for him.

When I started dating him, a close friend accused me of wanting to be with him just so that I wouldn't be available anymore. I didn't mind being single, but being available was REALLY irritating. I told her this was not the case.

I have also often said that being with Josh is about as close as I could get to being alone without actually being alone. Lately I've been wondering what will happen when I don't want to be alone anymore.

[Kim]

I have also often said that being with Josh is about as close as I could get to being alone without actually being alone.

So are you with Josh because you love him as a person or because his personality meets that requirement? And why is he with you?

[Joy]

I am with him for a lot of reasons:

he's not jealous
he's not stupid
he's not clingy
he's not overly emotional
he's not demanding
he doesn't have a temper
he's not dishonest
he's not controlling
he's not an alcoholic


I'm not entirely sure why he's with me. Essentially he hates people and would rather be alone than be with 999 out of 1000 people. Apparently I'm someone who is acceptable to him.

[Joy]

I don't mean to sound so cold. I truly felt that I connected with him in a way that I never had with anyone.

[diamond]

Sounds like this lack of connection serves a purpose for you both. Your connection is your desire for a lack of connection. You list things he is not rather than what he is.

Are you sure you don't want more?

When you do want more, and you will, I'm sure you will do what you need to do to take care of yourself and get what you need.

Something to think about, though - your son sees the way your relationship is and learns.

In the meantime, Kim is right. He is married to you and you can make a demand for work on his part.

[Joy]

Something to think about, though - your son sees the way your relationship is and learns.

That's why I left his dad, husband #1.

I've thought of telling him he needs to try the Lexapro.

[NeonMonk]

Yeah, you listed reasons why you don't not love him, rather than reasons why you love him (if that makes sense to anyone but me, sweet) Do you love him? Can you honestly look in the mirror and believe without a doubt that you love him? And that he loves you (hidden agenda!)?

I want to give you advice, about his depression and yours, in fact I have a hell of a lot swishing around in my mind, but it's all ENFP advice. I don't see it suiting yours or his personalities. You obviously don't like his lack of motivation(?) but you say he's better on weed? Ehhh... from my experience weed is a HUGE motivation killer. From my own experiences (alcoholic ISFJ) relationships where one partner has a substance dependancy add extra problems, whether the other partner has a problem with that or not.

All my advice has to do with "doing something different", "breaking patterns" etc etc. But to me, and just by looking at his photo (for some reason) I just can't see him being open to that(?)

Kim's right, it seems you're doing an Atlas. Perhaps you could sit him down and explain that you *do* love him, but the lack of communication is hurting you (both).

Though I don't know how open to that he would be. Only you can decide that. :wink:

[Joy]

The main reason that I do not mind that he smokes weed is because he has health problems (connective tissue disorder) and a VERY poor appetite, and weed makes food not disgusting for him. As it is he's 6'0" and 120 lbs.

You're right about my list... honestly I have thought the same thing myself many times. What do I love about him? I love that he's trustworthy and intelligent. I loved that we had all kinds of interesting conversations before he got like this.

But secretly I have always known that my reasons for choosing him were the product of unhealthy mental processes and wonder if I would still want to be with him once my issues were no longer an issue. Well, my issues are still issues. But now when I look into the future and see me going about my day by myself (as Josh does not live in this world), it seems sad rather than appearing that it's just how it has to be.

Kim was right in her statement about how being with a depressed person is draining and being supportive is okay as long as it's not too much... well I don't know what point I'm at.

I don't know if it's going to be okay. Perhaps he would be better off without me.

[Joy]

These are relations of an unstable psychological distance. Both partners experience difficulties in establishing and keeping a stable psychological distance between them. The only chance Contrary partners have to get on together well with each other is if they are left alone. In other cases partners usually compete over their strong sides. The reason for this is when somebody else is present, each partner tries to capture the attention of the listener by showing off their strong side. Contrary partners may like some elements of the other partner's behaviour. This often helps the partners to begin a more close relationship. However, when they are in company, their interaction can change dramatically. The introvert partner usually becomes distant, relations lose warm feelings and become formal and cautious. Both partners may start regretting that they became too trustful.

The extrovert partner normally gets the false impression that the introvert partner is deliberately acting against them. This can bring a great deal of misunderstanding and surprise into these relations, as both partners are convinced that before everything was fine. The introvert partner usually starts suppressing the activity of the extrovert partner and may reproach and criticise them. The extrovert partner in return can behave in the same way.

The most vulnerable position in these relations belongs to the extrovert partner, who may feel as if they are being betrayed. As a result the extrovert partner could start to worry excessively about their next step so as not to make any mistakes and may therefore become very suspicious. Unfortunately the extrovert partner cannot see that their introvert partner is not as bad as they have begun to imagine.

sounds familiar

[Kim]

edit

[Joy]

=) thanks

[Kim]

That was quick! I added a few sentences. :wink:

[Joy]

I do see that happening. I don't try to talk to him much anymore and I never try to get him to do anything.

I think there was a turning point in the relationship a month or two ago. He broke the number one sacred law of being with me: he criticized my housekeeping skills. It bothers me when anyone does that, and it was so much worse coming from him because I'd been resenting the fact that I have to do everything myself. Everything. And he's not at all appreciative. Him saying that was an attack at the deepest level.

[diamond]

I don't know if it's going to be okay. Perhaps he would be better off without me.

Don't even go there. You are robbing him of agency. You can only do what's good for you and you cannot worry about this also. He is an adult. Perhaps you should stop worrying about his type, functions and first of all, about irritating him. Sit down with him and have a talk. Tell him what you are telling us. You can't work on this alone and you shouldn't have to.

/edit: This is not really a good comparison, but I'll say it anyway: Things with my INTj love interest became weird and awkward when I started to desperately want to cater to his every need: Oh, I can't be smothering! He needs his space. Oh, I can't call too often! He needs his space. Oh, I can't talk about what frustrates me! He can't deal with my negative emotions. Oh, I can't talk about xyz! INTjs are so private. To hell with it. Does he cater to my every need? He does to some and to the best of his ability, but he remains true to himself. So that is what I do, too. Don't stretch yourself thin while he does not need to stretch at all.

Just look after yourself is all I'm saying.

This was a great post, Kim.

[Kim]

Thanks Blaze . In some ways I have been there, but not to this extreme. Why do women so readily take on the role of the caretaker and when it goes wrong, they blame themselves...I'm no exception. In the past, at least.

I think there was a turning point in the relationship a month or two ago. He broke the number one sacred law of being with me: he criticized my housekeeping skills. It bothers me when anyone does that, and it was so much worse coming from him because I'd been resenting the fact that I have to do everything myself. Everything. And he's not at all appreciative. Him saying that was an attack at the deepest level.

You know Joy, that's really pretty outrageous...

[Joy]

You know Joy, that's really pretty outrageous...

What do you mean?

[Kim]

To not do anything and then criticize you for not doing it right...

[Joy]

To not do anything and then criticize you for not doing it right...

That's what I thought you meant, but I wasn't sure... it does seem silly to care so much about one comment after all...

[Kim]

To not do anything and then criticize you for not doing it right...

That's what I thought you meant, but I wasn't sure... it does seem silly to care so much about one comment after all...

You are very forgiving :wink:

[Joy]

Most of the time, but with this... I dunno. It was just as bad as what happened on his brithday (except it was me being mean to him on his birthday). He hates being around drunk people, so he didn't respond well, and then the whole situation escalted.

And about that... the reason I drank a bottle and a half of wine was because I was irritated with him. It being his birthday, which is just another day to him, reminded me of how taking him out to eat or to visit my family is like a punishment to him. I knew that what he wanted for his birthday was the same as any other day: to be left alone to his MMORPG.

[Kim]

It seems like you really don't want to be alone. Talk to him and tell him that. He married you and now he will have to help you make it work.

What is MMORPG?

[Joy]

It seems like you really don't want to be alone. Talk to him and tell him that. He married you and now he will have to help you make it work.

What is MMORPG?

massive multi media online role playing game (AKA Everquest 2)

*sigh* I'll get around to it

[Creepy-]

dfsfd

[Creepy-]

Don't you think that the drugs he is on, weed and aderral, have an effect on his personality type? In the picture with both of you together he appears distant, looking towards the ground and not at the camera or your face.It does not appear that this is a healthy relationship. Have you ever considered trying to get him to stop his drug use? I do not think that you could say the weed is doing anything good for your relationship.

[Creepy-]

fdfs

[Joy]

The problem is not weed. He doesn't smoke any more now than has since before we began this relationship 3.5 years ago. He was a much angerier person before he started smoking weed. As a younger teenager (13 to 14 years old) he used to drink a bottle of vodka a night. He quit drinking for the most part when he started smoking weed everyday. Our relationship used to be close, and his smoking weed has never been an issue. The relationship IMPROVED when he started taking Adderall.

As far as the picture, the reason he's not looking at the camera is because he didn't know the picture was being taken. He was talking to me and we were just standing there like that and someone thought we looked cute and took the picture. I noticed as she was doing it, but had I have had any notice I would have put down the shake!

Sooooooo..... any more ideas on whether he's an INTj or INTp?

[Joy]

To help in typing:

Josh was somewhat of a class clown in school. EVERYONE knew who he was, but he never had real conversations with anyone, even the people he hung out with all the time. Having a connective tissue disorder enabled him to do all kinds of party tricks, so he would pull him should totally out of soccket and then use his muscles to pull it in or bend his fingers all the back to his fore arm or something like that. His instinctive knowledge of physics made it possible to do things like break a plate over his head without it hurting him (a popular party trick) or do seemingly crazy dare devil kinds of stunts. He was one of those kids in high school who wore green or blue nail polish, huge pants, text T shirts (like the one in the photo "I used to be schizphrenic but we're okay now"), brightly dyed hair, and other odd things. When I met him 5 years ago I called him by one of two nicknames:

1.) Earl- because one time we had a car full of people and there was not room for him, so he rode in the trunk... (Goodbye Earl)
2.) Seth- after Seth Green. Josh said he didn't look like Seth Green but I thought he did because he wore these google just like Seth Green in Can't Hardly Wait.

Here are some pics of Seth Green that really capture what Josh used to be like.

[Joy]

LOL, my son just looked at the screen and pointed to the last Seth Green pic and said, "What's Josh doing in that picture?"

[Rocky]

He might actually be an ILI (or the socionic INTp if you like that better).

[Joy]

yeah... I'm thinking I may have married my contrary relation.

[Ms. Kensington]

joy, how long were you dating and how long have you been married?

im sorry for my ignorance.

I dont think it is a bad thing or something threatening to a relationship to do drastic things in order to initiate change. what would happen if normal tasks disappeared or were no longer available? Or regular routines?

[Joy]

We have known eachother for roughly 5 years, (and were even room mates at one time), been together roughly 3.5 years, have been living together roughly 3 years, and married roughly 2.5.

I talked to him a little bit a couple of nights ago. It seems like he's willing to work on some things. We have to talk a bit more about what exactly needs to happen.

In spite of these issues we've been having, I still want to be with him and see hope for our future. It's just not as bright as it once was. This could easily go one way or the other.... but not anytime soon most likely. We'd have to try for a while and fail in order for me to do anything like leave him.

So... I'm still not sure that things will be okay, but I'm not terribly worried about it either. Maybe I did just date him because it was an easy answer to my insecurities which allowed me to bury them instead of face them. Maybe there are a whole lot of people who would be better for me. Maybe there are like, 10 other types that I would be more compatible with.

I'm not going to worry about it for now. I'm going to give things a chance to get better. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

[Expat]

Joy,

I know nothing about V.I. but from what you have written about him I never had the impression of another INTj; I think INTp is more likely.

[Ms. Kensington]

"So... I'm still not sure that things will be okay, but I'm not terribly worried about it either. Maybe I did just date him because it was an easy answer to my insecurities which allowed me to bury them instead of face them. Maybe there are a whole lot of people who would be better for me. Maybe there are like, 10 other types that I would be more compatible with.

I'm not going to worry about it for now. I'm going to give things a chance to get better. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I'll cross that bridge when I get there."

well, compatibility is a loaded term. I didnt mean to imply anything or that you should worry about it more. You seem like you are pretty level headed anyway. I wish I had someone as willing as you seem to work out problems!