Questions about enneagram types and wings

[Ezra]

I see. You think it's adequate to just infer growth and development for type 8 based on your understanding of descriptions of healthy 8s. No necessity in actually venturing into foreign territory when just looking over the fence is sufficient.

Evidently you've misunderstood me. I don't look at a healthy 8 and say 'I will become this'. I read about suggestions made by R&H like 'notice how you grip everything intensely. Try lowering this' and 'practice holding back before you express your anger so directly' - that kind of thing, and mix it with my own ways of becoming a better person. Like without the Enneagram, I know I'm overtly aggressive and I tend to attempt to force people to do things. If I wanted to develop myself, with the knowledge that this is linked with my being an 8, I need to learn to chill a bit and perhaps use some diplomacy.

[Ezra]

agree with jimbean. entp's most assuredly do not avoid conflict. heh.

Okay, you got me.

So, how could I know if I was ENTp?

hmmmm. you're still struggling with this? how come?

Not struggling. Thinking about.

Because I am not sufficient in my knowledge of socionics.

know thyself. if you built it he will come, lol, :wink:

No offence, but what the fuck are you talking about?

[Blaze]

agree with jimbean. entp's most assuredly do not avoid conflict. heh.

Okay, you got me.

So, how could I know if I was ENTp?

hmmmm. you're still struggling with this? how come?

Not struggling. Thinking about.

Because I am not sufficient in my knowledge of socionics.

know thyself. if you built it he will come, lol, :wink:

No offence, but what the fuck are you talking about?

maybe you didnt see that film Field of Dreams...anyway kind of a side note but i think if you just look inside yourself rather than outside then you would be able to pin down your type, if that's still important to you.

the idea of the film is that if you just trust yourself and listen to your heart, then your dreams will be realized.

not that knowing your type is a dream lol but you know what i mean.

[Gilly]

I know why you're 6w5

[Ezra]

maybe you didnt see that film Field of Dreams...anyway kind of a side note but i think if you just look inside yourself rather than outside then you would be able to pin down your type, if that's still important to you.

the idea of the film is that if you just trust yourself and listen to your heart, then your dreams will be realized.

not that knowing your type is a dream lol but you know what i mean.

I disagree. There must be a balance. The only way to satisfactorily reach a conclusion about your type in any personality typing system is to look at yourself in relation to external events and how you've reacted to them internally.

[Ezra]

As am I! I've forgotten who said you were a 6w5 now. Who was it, Thunder?

[Ezra]

Oh yeah. Reyn Til Runa, why do you think Thunder is a 6w5?

Oh wait, I know. Because you don't waste your time on people who have beaten you in an argument. Unlucky.

[reyn_til_runa]

Oh yeah. Reyn Til Runa, why do you think Thunder is a 6w5?

Oh wait, I know. Because you don't waste your time on people who have beaten you in an argument. Unlucky.

there was no argument. i realized early on that we would only argue semantics and our subtle dislike for each other. besides, there is no need for us to argue something that we are clearly equally able to win. i lost interest in the topic about 2 seconds after my post, which should also be considered before assuming that i got scared and ran away from you. i like how you criticize me for being illogical and weak in argumentation (as evidenced by my silence surrounding thunder's type), yet you have absolutely no basis for your claims against me.

[Ezra]

Yeah sorry I was being immature.

Now, why do you think Thunder is a 6w5? I'm genuinely interested to know, as is she.

[Blaze]

maybe you didnt see that film Field of Dreams...anyway kind of a side note but i think if you just look inside yourself rather than outside then you would be able to pin down your type, if that's still important to you.

the idea of the film is that if you just trust yourself and listen to your heart, then your dreams will be realized.

not that knowing your type is a dream lol but you know what i mean.

I disagree. There must be a balance. The only way to satisfactorily reach a conclusion about your type in any personality typing system is to look at yourself in relation to external events and how you've reacted to them internally.

whatever, you're not really trying to understand what i'm telling you. YOU ARE OUT OF BALANCE in the direction of the external.

[Ezra]

I am. I just disagree with you. I think I am balanced internally and externally.

[Creepy-bg]

you need more fibre

[Gilly]

Ewwww Ezra has runny poo...

[Gilly]

Herzy what enneagram are you? 7w8 so?

[Gilly]

http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e1428...position=88:80

[Ezra]

That's a good site that is - I've noticed a lot of people on this forum using it.

[Gilly]

Best I've found. Enneagram Institute is good for the Levels of Health, if you like those.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/

[aka-kitsune]

Best I've found. Enneagram Institute is good for the Levels of Health, if you like those.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/

Gilly, are you 7w6 or 7w8...? Used to be in your sig, I think... have you reconsidered? You remind me of a 7w6 so/sx I used to know (in the Biblical sense).

[Gilly]

I'm not 100% sure, actually, but I know I'm 7 with self-pres last.

What do you mean "biblical sense?"

[aka-kitsune]

I'm not 100% sure, actually, but I know I'm 7 with self-pres last.

Most assuredly. I'd speculate you seem more -w6, strongly counterphobic wing.

What do you mean "biblical sense?"

:wink: :wink:

[Gilly]

Wow, I'm a preacher's kid; I totally should've gotten that

What exactly is counterphobia about? I've never been able to find a really good description or explanation; the general sense I've gotten is that it's essentially an angry person. Help me out?

[Blaze]

Wow, I'm a preacher's kid; I totally should've gotten that

What exactly is counterphobia about? I've never been able to find a really good description or explanation; the general sense I've gotten is that it's essentially an angry person. Help me out?

gilly: are you really a PK? tell me it's not so, that would be way too weird.

because so am i.

[aka-kitsune]

Wow, I'm a preacher's kid; I totally should've gotten that

Did some research to track that down...? :wink:

What exactly is counterphobia about? I've never been able to find a really good description or explanation; the general sense I've gotten is that it's essentially an angry person. Help me out?

Sixes are generally said to be responding to fears and anxiety by many actions and orientation, especially to authority. "Phobic" sixes will run away from confrontations, play nice, and try to ally themselves with stronger authority, be it person, system, etc. They're classic sidekicks, adherents, churchgoers. "Counterphobic" sixes react against their fears, rebelling against authority, defying systems, and shunning institutions. They can be blatantly contemptuous of "system" dynamics, mores or act in more subtle manners to subvert systems. In many ways, the cp defines themselves by negation of (against) the prevailing ethos/zeitgeist -- whatever that might be. Not "I am __", but rather "I'm not __", etc.

cps can seem angry, but usually it's just defiance.

Thus, a six wing is usually classified in the same manner, as phobic or counterphobic depending on which way you react.

[Enters Laughing]

I think the profile for 5 so\sx fits me best, though also possibly so\sp and sp\sx - does that seem plausible, people who know enneagram type things better than I?

[Gilly]

Wow, I'm a preacher's kid; I totally should've gotten that

What exactly is counterphobia about? I've never been able to find a really good description or explanation; the general sense I've gotten is that it's essentially an angry person. Help me out?

gilly: are you really a PK? tell me it's not so, that would be way too weird.

because so am i.

O_O

Let me know when you get done using my soul, k?

[Gilly]

Hmmm...I dunno. I'm inclined to identify, but I know a guy who is a blatantly obvious 7w6 cp sx/sp, and the cp as you describe it is really obvious in him. He's a REALLY intense guy, sometimes even asocial, despite the fact that he's fairly outgoing and socially capable. My friends kinda rely on me as a "conduit" to him because we're so similar and understand one another so well; aside from his girlfriend, I'm really the only one who can talk really straight with him without getting myself into trouble (and one of the only ones who can handle him when I AM in trouble ). We have similarities in our 7-ness, but I'm not as opinionated or blatantly anti-authority as he is. He's against not only authority as in government, superiors, etc, but the whole concept of power and top-down influence, even on a small scale; I, on the other hand, like being the one in charge and having social influence. Compared to him, I could almost be an 8: he's sociable and can develop really deep connections with people, but I'm more naturally gregarious and expansive.

[aka-kitsune]

Hmmm...I dunno. I'm inclined to identify, but I know a guy who is a blatantly obvious 7w6 cp sx/sp, and the cp as you describe it is really obvious in him. He's a REALLY intense guy, sometimes even asocial, despite the fact that he's fairly outgoing and socially capable. My friends kinda rely on me as a "conduit" to him because we're so similar and understand one another so well; aside from his girlfriend, I'm really the only one who can talk really straight with him without getting myself into trouble (and one of the only ones who can handle him when I AM in trouble ). We have similarities in our 7-ness, but I'm not as opinionated or blatantly anti-authority as he is. He's against not only authority as in government, superiors, etc, but the whole concept of power and top-down influence, even on a small scale; I, on the other hand, like being the one in charge and having social influence. Compared to him, I could almost be an 8: he's sociable and can develop really deep connections with people, but I'm more naturally gregarious and expansive.

Well... the sx/sp would account for the intensity. Deep connections too. Those are very concentrated energies. But you can still be 7w6 without looking exactly like him. And FWIW, you don't hesitate to vigorously tear down "systems" if you think they're bogus. Witness the "crackpot" crusade episode. :wink:

Compare yourself to FDG, who occurs to me as quintessentially 7w8. There's a solidity and stability in his comments, vs. a kind of mercurial energy in yours. That 8-wing would lend grounding -- 8s are gut types. Do you think of yourself as straddling mind-gut energy or are you all mental...? As a 7w6 is a double mental type, they're usually more theoretical than 7w8, more characteristic of the 7 "monkey mind". Some frequently have trouble with insomnia, because they have difficulty turning off the mindracing. Often this leads to self-medication with drugs or alcohol. The one I knew used to smoke pot daily to "slow his mind down" (or so he claimed).

[Gilly]

Explain more what you mean by "mind/gut."

Compared to my friend, I'm definitely more "gut" oriented; more grounded or realistic. We have a lot of the same purposes and ideas when it comes to persona philosophy, but he takes a much more spiritual path, whereas mine is much more scientific.

We have an interesting group dynamic. I'm more of the up-front leader of our group of friends, whereas he commands a kind of...respected power that he doesn't really flaunt, but everyone kinda knows he has it. Ever seen the first season of The Sopranos? This guy is basically the Richie Aprile to my Tony Soprano.

[aka-kitsune]

Explain more what you mean by "mind/gut."

Gut types = 8, 9, 1
Heart types = 2, 3, 4
Mind types = 5, 6, 7

You get a double dose of mind when you're 5w6, 6w7 or 7w6. With 7w8, you would have a noticeable grounding energy, blending in. A solidity.

We have an interesting group dynamic. I'm more of the up-front leader of our group of friends, whereas he commands a kind of...respected power that he doesn't really flaunt, but everyone kinda knows he has it. Ever seen the first season of The Sopranos? This guy is basically the Richie Aprile to my Tony Soprano.

Is that the "consigliere" role you're referring to? Sorry, but the Sopranos aren't my thing... I'm not really into Mafia themes. Too violent, too crude.

Did you take the test posted previously?? http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test.php

Enneagram Test 2 -- w/variants.

I'd be interested to see those results.

[Gilly]

No, less an advisor than a loosely-attached "lone wolf" type.

I know what you mean in regard to types, but I'm curious as to what it is in terms of the actual manifestation.

You are most likely a type 7 (the Enthusiast) with 8 wing

Social variant


Type 7 SO
Type 8 SO
Type 3 SO
Type 2 SX
Type 9 SX
Type 6 SX
Type 4 SX
Type 5 SX
Type 1 SO

For the record I got 7w6 so last time.

[aka-kitsune]

No, less an advisor than a loosely-attached "lone wolf" type.

I know what you mean in regard to types, but I'm curious as to what it is in terms of the actual manifestation.

You are most likely a type 7 (the Enthusiast) with 8 wing

Social variant


Type 7 SO
Type 8 SO
Type 3 SO
Type 2 SX
Type 9 SX
Type 6 SX
Type 4 SX
Type 5 SX
Type 1 SO

For the record I got 7w6 so last time.

Interesting. Well, I suppose the only thing that's clear is that you're definitely so/sx:

Social/Sexual

This Seven has a lot of energy although not always a productive energy, as it often contains a frenetic quality. These Sevens usually have a great sense of humor and many comedians are soc/sexual sevens. The social and sexual instincts go hand in hand with the type Seven fixation. These Sevens want to keep things light. They have fast sharp minds that incorporate social awareness into their humor which they use to get by in their interactions with the world. On the down side, commitment is a big issue for this subtype. They cultivate many friendships and can thrive on winning people over, making them laugh and entertaining them but intimacy can feel threatening and constraining. For others, interacting with this subtype of Seven can feel draining, because they are “on” so much of the time.

With the self-pres instinct least developed in the stacking, they tend to lose focus on their many plans. On the down side, their health and commitments can fall by the wayside in lieu of the buzz of the newest excitement.

In intimate relationships, this subtype is “the charmer,” but they maintain their freedom from any strong ties to the one person. They may end up in marriages or long term commitments where they hook up with someone reliable and stable, someone with a much more low key personality. This gives them the stability they don’t have themselves. This eventually leads to trouble if the soc/sexual seven doesn’t realize that responsibility for his or her own life can’t be transferred to another. It’s not that the soc/sexual goes into the relationship with this kind of pattern in mind. It is just easy for the dynamic to default to that dynamic.

With respect to your results -- I'd think if you were clearly a 7w8 you'd have a greater connection to 5 (both 7 and 8 have lines there). Types 3 and 9 have lines to type 6, so strong identification there would lean more to w6. At least, as far as enneagram theory goes, of course. I'd say the so/sx behavior can also look quite Eightish. I'd be OK seeing 7w8 though. It's really whatever fits bets for you.

Also interesting (to me personally) is that your top three results are my bottom three... there's an innuendo in there somewhere, but I think I'll refrain until I know you better. :wink:

[ScarlettLux]

Wow, aka-kitsune. You are really educated in the Ennea are you not? Cool! =] Could you tell me some more information about well, myself? Hahahaha.. just about this whole "in connection to ___ type" thing you are going on about. I have never heard of this. As you probably know I can very superficially appear to be 7w6 but as time has passed and my manic stage died down, definitely not. I am very much a 4.

[UDP]

I keep getting 8w7, which is not at all true. I have very average responses to energy questions. I could possibly be 8w9, but definitely not 8w7. I still see myself as 1w9.

[aka-kitsune]

Wow, aka-kitsune. You are really educated in the Ennea are you not? Cool! =] Could you tell me some more information about well, myself? Hahahaha.. just about this whole "in connection to ___ type" thing you are going on about. I have never heard of this. As you probably know I can very superficially appear to be 7w6 but as time has passed and my manic stage died down, definitely not. I am very much a 4.

It's been mentioned elsewhere that 4s and 7s can look superficially similar. But the main difference between them would be that 4s are comfortable with their negative moods, and often cultivate them, whereas 7s avoid them, throwing themselves into compulsive activity to avoid feeling down.

You're also still young Scarlett.. In their early 20s, everyone seems angsty and manic at times. 4w3 seems to fit your style of communication around here. I've known a few and they do tend to have a flighty whimsy to them that you seem to share. 4w3s can be endearing as well as emotionally expressive -- music, art, imagery, poetry. 4w5s have this too, but they're generally more inward. w3s are brighter, lighter than w5s, who usually have a denser, darker feel.

Have you taken the eclectic energies test, SL? If you did, I can take a look at where the other types fell in your results and get a better idea of other energies in your makeup. It's a really good test to start with. And If you took it on the EIDB, could you link to it here? I don't go there much anymore -- sorta inane anymore.

[FDG]

Compare yourself to FDG, who occurs to me as quintessentially 7w8. There's a solidity and stability in his comments, vs. a kind of mercurial energy in yours. That 8-wing would lend grounding -- 8s are gut types. Do you think of yourself as straddling mind-gut energy or are you all mental...? As a 7w6 is a double mental type, they're usually more theoretical than 7w8, more characteristic of the 7 "monkey mind". Some frequently have trouble with insomnia, because they have difficulty turning off the mindracing. Often this leads to self-medication with drugs or alcohol. The one I knew used to smoke pot daily to "slow his mind down" (or so he claimed).

I definitely don't relate to his mood swings/bipolarity etc.
I know that bipolarity isn't strictly clustered around a type, okay, but still
I've always been stable-mooded except for short periods of my life (usually emotionally turmoiled)
Never suffered insomnia either at all

[Gilly]

Fabie, of course you don't relate to my mood swings; I'm a diagnosed bipolar

I definitely feel a connection to 5: there was a period in my life, 2-3 years ago, when I wasn't interested in anything but trying to define a personal philosophy and understand the world. I isolated myself from everyone but a few close friends at meal times and my girlfriend; I just sat up in my room and looked out the window and thought about life. I figured a lot of things out, but eventually I realized that I couldn't go on doing that forever.

I do also feel a connection to 3, but it's pretty superficial and really only exists in the form of image consciousness that could easily be attributed to being a social variant. I don't really give a rats ass about "success;" I just want enough money to not have to let the idea of money, and making it, run my life.

I don't really relate to 9 at all.

[aka-kitsune]

Aka-Kitsune... I always type 5w4 on ennegrams... and sometimes ILI/INTp on certain socionics tests... yet when I look at function and my processes, it's ILE/ENTp.

Why?

I'm still sorting out the differences between MBTI and socionics functions, so bear with me.

From what I've gleaned so far regarding your form of input, use of imagery, and reserve, 5w4 makes perfect sense. 5 is usually correlated with INTP in MBTI. As well, point 5 is arguably the most introverted place in the enneagram. Reading the type descriptions for socionics ENTp, it does seem to more closely approximate type 5 ("Investigator"/"Observer") more accurately than INTp does.

[ScarlettLux]

Wow, aka-kitsune. You are really educated in the Ennea are you not? Cool! =] Could you tell me some more information about well, myself? Hahahaha.. just about this whole "in connection to ___ type" thing you are going on about. I have never heard of this. As you probably know I can very superficially appear to be 7w6 but as time has passed and my manic stage died down, definitely not. I am very much a 4.

It's been mentioned elsewhere that 4s and 7s can look superficially similar. But the main difference between them would be that 4s are comfortable with their negative moods, and often cultivate them, whereas 7s avoid them, throwing themselves into compulsive activity to avoid feeling down.

You're also still young Scarlett.. In their early 20s, everyone seems angsty and manic at times. 4w3 seems to fit your style of communication around here. I've known a few and they do tend to have a flighty whimsy to them that you seem to share. 4w3s can be endearing as well as emotionally expressive -- music, art, imagery, poetry. 4w5s have this too, but they're generally more inward. w3s are brighter, lighter than w5s, who usually have a denser, darker feel.

Have you taken the eclectic energies test, SL? If you did, I can take a look at where the other types fell in your results and get a better idea of other energies in your makeup. It's a really good test to start with. And If you took it on the EIDB, could you link to it here? I don't go there much anymore -- sorta inane anymore.

Oh man, this test pretty much confirmed my 4w3-ness. Strange because usually on these sorts of tests, 7 will score a lot higher than it did.

Type 4 - 11
Type 3 - 10.7
Type 7 - 6.7
Type 8 - 6
Type 5 - 1

Wing 4w3 - 16.4
Wing 3w4 - 16.2
Wing 3w2 - 12.2
Wing 4w5 - 11.5
Wing 7w8 - 9.7
Wing 8w7 - 9.3
Wing 7w6 - 7.5
Wing 8w9 - 6.5
Wing 5w4 - 6.5
Wing 5w6 - 1.9

[aka-kitsune]

Oh man, this test pretty much confirmed my 4w3-ness. Strange because usually on these sorts of tests, 7 will score a lot higher than it did.

Incidentally, I should add here that most 4w3s score high in 7 also. (4w5s not so much). 4w3s also tend to make fast friends with 7s -- the two often egging each other on with outrageous behavior. w3s can be less inhibited in social scenes than w5s, although more generally, all Fours share an "inner life" focus which prompts them to turn inward for inspiration, recharge, etc.

[Ezra]

Best I've found. Enneagram Institute is good for the Levels of Health, if you like those.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/

I tend to agree with Levels of Health to some extent. My dad discards them, saying that they're too rigid and uncompromising. I see them as a general guide to what level of health on might be.