INFj-ESTj duality examples and stories (EII-LSE)

[Enters Laughing]

This reporter Justin Rowlatt (ESTj) was asked to make reports about trying to cut the CO2 emissions of his family. The beginning of the video has his wife (INFj?) chastising him for going to Jamaica to make some point he could have made at home . The report as a whole is a good example of a ESTj at work.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLgH-GkOczw[/youtube]

[Joy]

So I call my sister up to talk to her about something, and while we're on the phone she says, "Guess what? My car is fixed!" and I was like "Oh?" and she was like, "I mean totally fixed. Uncle Paul fixed my car! I was talking about how it costs me $16 a day in gas, and he said it shouldn't cost me that much. I told him that I work an hour away from your house (where she technically lives) and he said that it still shouldn't cost me that much. He asked me when the last time I had a tune up done, and I told him never. He said, 'So you're leaving your car here today, right?' and I was like, 'Sure?' Within five minutes he was on the phone with the father of the kids his daughter babysits for. He owns a garage. He took my car there and fixed a whole bunch of stuff on it. I don't even know how much it would have cost me if I would have taken it to a garage... probably at least $400 or $500." I was like, "Gotta love ESTjs." She laughed (she's very vaguely familiar with the theory).

I found this story funny because she was so thrilled that he had done all of that, but I probably would have been happy that I didn't have to spend the money on it, but sorta creeped out at the same time.

[Joy]

Yes, I'd be glad that the stress was gone (and I'd be very glad not to have to pay $500), but there would be a new kind of stress... an awkwardness... I guess I can't feel comfortable with someone that I'm not with doing that sort of thing for me. It takes a sort of intimate trust for me to be able to accept that sort of help without feeling weird or somehow obligated to be nice or something like that, not that I wouldn't otherwise be nice... I don't know, I would just feel very uneasy for some reason.

Wow... I just realized this is the exact same feeling that's made me hate Christmas since I was a little kid.

[intjguy]

I have an ESTj friend, he's always a.. sucker for doing the biggest favors for women. Like it's his favorite kind of duty (lol doody) to do or something. I don't know if it's pure in his intentions or if he just wants to get laid.

I say sucker because chicks don't dig that sort of deep initiative free aid. It's his fault anyway, I've never seen him help any ugly chicks

[UDP]

Considering the ESTjs have an NF - INFj - as a dual, they can have odd problems with morality and integrity. Most of the time it is because their standards are so different from the norm COMBINED WITH being human, and yes, perhaps wanting to get laid or what have you. An ESTj generally needs an INFj's acceptance and appreciation of the caregiving ways, otherwise (just like any other type), it can feel like someone is not responsive to what you want to give them in a relationship, and you wonder what you are doing wrong - "why is 'being me' not working in this situation? Is something wrong with me?"

Each type should keep in mind that they are hardwired and "custom made" for their dual. Yes, this does not mean that you can only have good relationships with duals, but keep it in mind.

[FDG]

Sounds okay, if he had the money to do it, why not?

[eunice]

I can't help it but post it under the Delta quadra section as well. I am currently obsessed with this drama serial. The male protaganist is too perfect imo.

Hanazakarino Kimitachihe

Male: Si-ESTj
Female: Ne-INFj



00:21-02:29 - ESTj protecting the INFj (disguised as a male) from the ESTp
02:32-05:36 - ESTj training alone and overexerting himself
06:02-09:30 - HA - INFj praising the ESTj and describing how he has influenced her positively and given her hope in life.



INFj feeling overwhelmed by a drunked ESTj.

[UDP]

Ok

[eunice]

Ok

?

As in, my typing is accurate?

[UDP]

This is UPD language for "I have been sucked in by the vortex".

*pats dolphin on the head* Not quite.



Considering that the nature of the video is actually a soap opera, a drama, I guess it makes sense. If they are delta rational couple, the girl is likely the Ne subtype. I'm not sure about the guy's subtype.

There is just so much sappiness there it is hard to say.

The actor playing the girl character seems Fe creative, or Fe valuing.


Because of the nature of the show, and my lack of understanding about the native culture on display, I don't know if the girl's dreaminess is just the norm. The way she sort of naively idealizes about things, and tells the story to her dog, sort of makes me think INFp - is she looking for a caregiver or an aggressor? But then again, it's a soap opera, so it's inherently sort of going to have a beta flair to it.

I would not use anything in the show as a prototype or clear example of anything. But if you want to say they are delta, maybe. I don't know anything about them other than those two videos, and again, what the culture is adding to or taking away from them.

[hellothere]

My thoughts were similar to UDP's

[eunice]

Because of the nature of the show, and my lack of understanding about the native culture on display, I don't know if the girl's dreaminess is just the norm. The way she sort of naively idealizes about things, and tells the story to her dog, sort of makes me think INFp - is she looking for a caregiver or an aggressor? But then again, it's a soap opera, so it's inherently sort of going to have a beta flair to it.

I would not use anything in the show as a prototype or clear example of anything. But if you want to say they are delta, maybe. I don't know anything about them other than those two videos, and again, what the culture is adding to or taking away from them.

Her monologue with the dog seems very -oriented imo. She is describing her personal motivations behind why she is very supportive of the guy and how he has influenced her life for the better. I don't associate her thoughts with dreaminess or naively idealizing things at all. I thought she was been realistic by putting her fascination for the guy into action i.e. attempting to keep fit by going to the gym.

The show is Delta (with a bit of Alpha). From the first clip, the main characters (ESTj and INFj) seem more "calculated" in analyzing their inner thoughts and feelings, and are less likely to reveal their feelings to each other. I associate Beta shows as been more dramatic, expressive and with a bit of angst sometimes.

As for cultural differences, I finally understood why niffweed thinks I am INFp.

[Outside]

Gah, I can't view any YouTube videos right now... the service seems to be down.

[Expat]

Gah, I can't view any YouTube videos right now... the service seems to be down.

Yeah, I'm also having this problem.

[UDP]

yeah. the site was down for a while. It seems to be working again.

[UDP]

So you may know already that in one of the organizations I work for on campus, I am on the eboard and the president is EII.


Recently we were at an event where our club had to have a table set up, talking about who we were and other projects we are doing. The event was an expo for lots of other clubs and activities on campus at the time. I got there early to set up, so it was her and myself.

Right away I noticed that she seemed somewhat distracted - as far as I was concerned. She was so focused on all the people around here. There were a lot of people she knows, and yeah, she is definitely much better at giving personal attention to people than I am. But too much so, IMO. I guess I mean to say that what needed to be done was giving clear plans as to setting up our own table first, and then she could go out and do whatever she needed to do. But instead she got caught up in things, and drifted far away from the table. I did my best but I had to basically tell people to wait until she got back - other people from our club showed up, and I did not have clear instructions to tell them what to do because the president was elsewhere. She eventually came back

So I asked her, "ok, what do we need to do". She said a few things about setting up the table, which we mostly had done. And then started talking about other small things, or things with other organizations. And I was like "that's good, but, what does (our club) need to do, right now? Are we all set?". Eventually we went over things and figured out that we were. She seemed to be relatively indifferent about whether to make sure the table was set up, or other things were working, so I felt I had to make sure about things. Heh, I'm not really sure if she realized the importance of what I was saying, but, the bottom line is,our table got set up and managed and people did their jobs and everything worked out well - it was a successful event.


I don't have any real comments; it was interesting to see. Duals really DO operate in different spheres. It would be totally foreign to me to act how she did - focusing so much on whoever stopped by and requested her time, doing things for other people when our table wasn't even set up. But at the same time, I can see how I would need that sort of help at times.


Granted, it was an important day for our club, and for her especially, because there were a lot of important people, but it seemed to be a pretty clear example of being Fi and Ne in ego block, weak Se, even weak Ti, and valued Si, and weak Te - on her part.

[aestrivex]

this account is almost entirely devoid of any real information on how the two of you interacted or what socionics relation you have.

[Topaz]

Are you certain she is EII. The ones I know really know how to focus on a task. SEI on the other hand may drift away and get destracted by others. Thats also very true about IEI.

[Christy B]

Are you certain she is EII. The ones I know really know how to focus on a task. SEI on the other hand may drift away and get destracted by others. Thats also very true about IEI.

I agree. Can you talk more about this person, and why you think she is EII? Doesn't really sound like the way I would have behaved in the same situation.

[UDP]

this account is almost entirely devoid of any real information on how the two of you interacted or what socionics relation you have.

That's because I'm was not asking you to type her; that was not the intent of this thread or that post.



For the record: every time I've posted a photo of her, people say EII. I had a thread about her in the past I think, and she was typed as EII. Although at first people said ISFp, to which I disagreed with. Note: I disagreed about that even back when I thought I was LII, also for the record.

But now whenever i post a photo of her its "hey, why don't you date that EII, UDP?" . Her type has been discussed before, and that's why I didn't say "gee, I wonder if this person is EII".


I'm not saying this sort of behavior is absolutely typical in all situations for EIIs, or saying they are typically distracted.


PS: but of course (and apparently I have to say this so you think that I am not "not listening to you"), you are entitled to think she is whatever type you want.

[Christy B]

Sorry UDP. Didn't mean to say she is for sure not EII, or question your judgment, just that this specific case doesn't seem to indicate EII to me. This is not to say an EII could or would not act this way. Just that it doesn't seem like my typical behavior as an EII.

BTW: Why don't you date her?: ) J/K

[UDP]

I share Niffweed's sentiments about VI

Sorry UDP. Didn't mean to say she is for sure not EII, or question your judgment, just that this specific case doesn't seem to indicate EII to me. This is not to say an EII could or would not act this way. Just that it doesn't seem like my typical behavior as an EII.

BTW: Why don't you date her?: ) J/K

What would you do, then, Christy?

[aestrivex]

That's because I'm was not asking you to type her; that was not the intent of this thread or that post.

fine. but i'm not completely sure what the purpose was.

For the record: every time I've posted a photo of her, people say EII. I had a thread about her in the past I think, and she was typed as EII. Although at first people said ISFp, to which I disagreed with. Note: I disagreed about that even back when I thought I was LII, also for the record.

But now whenever i post a photo of her its "hey, why don't you date that EII, UDP?" . Her type has been discussed before, and that's why I didn't say "gee, I wonder if this person is EII".

yes yes. the brilliant minds on this forum have made a VI designation. and so hath the storm wrought the word of god. and on the pedastal these words appear: i am ozymandias, king of kings. look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. and on the seventh day petals fell in petaluma; lewis, be dead.

[implied]

yes yes. the brilliant minds on this forum have made a VI designation. and so hath the storm wrought the word of god. and on the pedastal these words appear: i am ozymandias, king of kings. look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. and on the seventh day petals fell in petaluma; lewis, be dead.

[aestrivex]

i PM'd this to eunice a few days ago and she hasn't responded, so i'll throw it out here:



the best example of an LSE-EII duality in popular culture that i know of is the interaction of jim and claudia from the movie magnolia





the latter video is a dramatic interpretation of the most important scene between the two so the characters are different; the only real videos that i could find of that particular scene were in what i think is italian.

that scene comes smack in the middle of the other video (at about 6:20) if you want to watch them chronologically.


basically, claudia is not a hugely typical EII; she has some problems with her life. jim i think is an excellent example of LSE. he's very pragmatic, unemotional, and honest and forthright in most of his advice, and from talking to claudia you can clearly tell his emphasis on interpersonal connection as well as his lack of confidence (Te blundering, if you will) in initiating it. one thing is that his is real Te rather than Se and Ti; his approach to helping claudia is to give her practical solutions rather than try to defend her or motivate her at all costs, which is something that seems apparent from the people you've noted as LSE. his demeanor in helping claudia with her problems is a really good indication of LSE; he demonstrates his value for Fi by acting the part of the extrovert, discussing his own problems with her and offering a "steady" emotional base of support for claudia and continuing to emphasize the instrinsic value and importance of their relationship.



this monologue from the same film seems to depict an LSEs standpoint and lack of confidence in Fi:

[implied]

that's actually a really good one, probably one of the better examples i've seen. i agree on claudia being EII (now everyone disagree because claudia likes to party etc.)

[UDP]

that's actually a really good one, probably one of the better examples i've seen. i agree on claudia being EII (now everyone disagree because claudia likes to party etc.)

I can see her as EII

[munenori2]

I will have to see this movie! Without that background it's hard to say, but LSE and EII seem to be very plausible on first view.

[aestrivex]

i should also perhaps mention to anyone interested in watching it that the majority of this movie does not necessarily focus on these two characters. they're important, but only as important as a number of other stories going on at the same time.

[Elro]

Yeah. From the first clip I definitely can see LSE for Jim (not sure about Claudia).

[eunice]

i PM'd this to eunice a few days ago and she hasn't responded

I have responded to your PM yesterday morning.

[Expat]

basically, claudia is not a hugely typical EII; she has some problems with her life. jim i think is an excellent example of LSE. he's very pragmatic, unemotional, and honest and forthright in most of his advice, and from talking to claudia you can clearly tell his emphasis on interpersonal connection as well as his lack of confidence (Te blundering, if you will) in initiating it. one thing is that his is real Te rather than Se and Ti; his approach to helping claudia is to give her practical solutions rather than try to defend her or motivate her at all costs, which is something that seems apparent from the people you've noted as LSE. his demeanor in helping claudia with her problems is a really good indication of LSE; he demonstrates his value for Fi by acting the part of the extrovert, discussing his own problems with her and offering a "steady" emotional base of support for claudia and continuing to emphasize the instrinsic value and importance of their relationship.

Yeah, I agree with this analysis. Great find.

Still on Claudia's type, and her being EII rather than IEE, there is the following -- his first interactions with her is him essentially criticising her Si - on the loud music, whether she wants to go deaf, and having the TV on at the same time. That seems to annoy her a bit. I think LIIs and EIIs don't like so overly direct criticisms on their HA, even from duals, if the implication is "does he think I can't take care of myself?". An IEE would be more likely to welcome the input more obviously.

I think messed-up EII makes perfect sense for her.

[Suomea]

...

[Ver]

I think I should see this film. I found this scene..moving...it takes a lot of courage to open up when you are afraid.

[Beautiful sky]

OMG, this thread is full of BS.

[jewels]

what a nice scene! Claudia is such a likea-able character. Is she typical of INFJs? Or is she showing more emotion because of the drugs? It seems like INFJs are usually more held back with that quiet calm/not showing much emotion. Or am I wrong?

[Minde]

Those clips both attract and unease me. He is very nice, but I can easily see her ruining him. (I have not seen the movie.)


By the way, you're a dear, Niffweed. A caustic dear, at times, but one nonetheless.

[aestrivex]

what a nice scene! Claudia is such a likea-able character. Is she typical of INFJs? Or is she showing more emotion because of the drugs? It seems like INFJs are usually more held back with that quiet calm/not showing much emotion. Or am I wrong?

basically, claudia is not a hugely typical EII; she has some problems with her life.

that was kind of a blow-over on claudia. essentially, not to give too much away, there are some stressful events which take place in the movie which may tend to explain her present emotional state. although not very much is depicted about her outside of a period of time when these events are taking place, so it's hard to compare if this is simply a period of extensive turmoil or not.