FDG's type one more round

[Expat]

If you haven't seen it yet, we have written a page in the wiki precisely on that, on different functions' and types' perception of aesthetics in architecture, sculpture, etc.

[ScarlettLux]

If you haven't seen it yet, we have written a page in the wiki precisely on that, on different functions' and types' perception of aesthetics in architecture, sculpture, etc.

Where!

[Expat]

The wiki is quite user-friendly, you know -- but here it is:

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t..._and_socionics

[FDG]

The product of following rules can be beautiful

The product of not following them can be equally beautiful.

We could also say, that not following rules can be a rule in itself.

[Gilly]

"Everything in moderation. Including moderation."

[Gilly]

"Following rules" is an IJ concept.

[olduser]

Following rules doesn't necessarily mean you enjoy them, but most are necessary. I simply don't trust others. Rules will not work unless there is order in the environment and people obey them. Most rules absolutely do protect people. I think rules have a bad rap with younger people because they aren't directly involved in the consequences of many laws and rules seeing as how they don't own property, have careers, have many business interactions with others, etc. Or don't think about how rules are protecting them, only consider how they are inhibited by rules. Anyway, rules are inheritly good. When I ride my bike quickly through city streets I know my own skill is going to protect me most, but I also count on others obeying traffic regulations. I expect them to treat me as another vechile on the road, but of course, those who don't follow the rules because they have their personal interpretation(mostly "I have the right away because my vechile is bigger/faster") put me at risk along with others already obeying the rules.

[discojoe]

I think he's ESFp. I've never really noted what I would describe as Fi PoLR from him, and sometimes he seems to go on these loud Fi crusades....

But I'm not really trying to be that objective here, so whatever. I'll say he's whatever type he thinks he is.

[Joy]

The only argument I see against ESTp is that his criticisms of others don't sting at all... they're just him being loud and ornery. When ESTps criticize people, what they say carries a lot of force behind it because as much as you hate to admit it, they're absolutely right. What they're saying makes perfect sense in the context of the situation. FDG's criticisms just leave you thinking, "What does that have to do with anything?" Sometimes his criticisms don't even make sense in and of themselves.

[Ezra]

The only argument I see against ESTp is that his criticisms of others don't sting at all... they're just him being loud and ornery. When ESTps criticize people, what they say carries a lot of force behind it because as much as you hate to admit it, they're absolutely right. What they're saying makes perfect sense in the context of the situation. FDG's criticisms just leave you thinking, "What does that have to do with anything?" Sometimes his criticisms don't even make sense in and of themselves.

Very true.

If the ESTp is concerned with power, naturally, they are very comfortable with power games, and part of the strategy of power games is in completely annihilating your opponent psychologically. FDG's insults, for example, aren't personal to me - they're very general. He says "Go play football" because that's what 17-year-olds do. If he really wanted to do some damage, he'd refer to something personal I'd said in the past that I'd said in confidence, essentially hurting me a lot.

[FDG]

Power games wtf, when i criticize people is just to have fun

[discojoe]

Power games wtf, when i criticize people is just to have fun

I DO IT FOR THE RUSH

[FDG]

Power games wtf, when i criticize people is just to have fun

I DO IT FOR THE RUSH

well sex is better for that kind of thing, or going downhill with my mtb

[Ezra]

Power games wtf, when i criticize people is just to have fun

Exactly. That's what Joy is trying to get at - the argument against ESTp. I was simply elaborating by saying that ESTps will use power games. You don't, so it should logically follow that you are not ESTp.

[FDG]

Power games wtf, when i criticize people is just to have fun

Exactly. That's what Joy is trying to get at - the argument against ESTp. I was simply elaborating by saying that ESTps will use power games. You don't, so it should logically follow that you are not ESTp.

why would I want to play power games on an internet forum...?

[Joy]

It's not just that. It's about whether or not what you say when you criticize people makes sense. Many times it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand but is worded to sound sort of like it does? And you're not even making any sort of point most of the time, either. What you say just translates to "I don't like you hahahahahaha", as opposed to the ESTps I've known who are good at seeing people's actual weaknesses and pointing them out in a way that stings. And what they say always bears some sort of relevance to either that particular person or the particular situation at hand... not just some random "you're an idiot dur dur dur".

[Joy]

And when I point it out on occasion, he doesn't respond.

[olduser]

his criticisms are always borderline nice. He calls people stupid when he has justification-- such as finding a hole in someone's argument. They are more for effect in argument whereas ESTp insults are planned and meant solely to hurt the insultee.

[olduser]

Power games wtf, when i criticize people is just to have fun

Exactly. That's what Joy is trying to get at - the argument against ESTp. I was simply elaborating by saying that ESTps will use power games. You don't, so it should logically follow that you are not ESTp.

why would I want to play power games on an internet forum...?

it's the shit man--you gotta try it. I scored 10 exp from an earlier struggle.

bitch,.

[Gilly]

his criticisms are always borderline nice. He calls people stupid when he has justification-- such as finding a hole in someone's argument. They are more for effect in argument whereas ESTp insults are planned and meant solely to hurt the insultee.

This is horrible reasoning. I know SLEs who are genuinely gentle souls. Why do people insist that Se + lack of ethics = asshole? Discojoe is probably the biggest intentional jerk I've met in my entire life and he's allegedly Fi dominant, so there's a wrench in those works...

[Transigent]

Hey FDG, you too ugly to be ESTp.

BTW, IMHO, WTFDIK, ABCDEFG.

[olduser]

his criticisms are always borderline nice. He calls people stupid when he has justification-- such as finding a hole in someone's argument. They are more for effect in argument whereas ESTp insults are planned and meant solely to hurt the insultee.

This is horrible reasoning. I know SLEs who are genuinely gentle souls. Why do people insist that Se + lack of ethics = asshole? Discojoe is probably the biggest intentional jerk I've met in my entire life and he's allegedly Fi dominant, so there's a wrench in those works...

i didn't say that being cuttingly insulting is the general demeanor of all estp, did i? It was a 'when,' not an 'always.'

[Gilly]

That still doesn't mean that their insults are always meant to cut to the bone. Fabie is definitely not "too playful" for an SLE; that's borderline oxymoronic

[olduser]

That still doesn't mean that their insults are always meant to cut to the bone. Fabie is definitely not "too playful" for an SLE; that's almost oxymoronic

insults are by definition meant to cut to the bone, otherwise it's friendly teasing. I do think ESTp are likely to have an attacking style of behaviour, and generally people think they are friendly regardless because of the strong sense of group unity they create. But that doesn't mean they aren't mean. Jeez, there are people who don't like other people in the world, and they need a type too. It's a matter of probability. If someone is rude, and likes to insult others for their caprices and illogical behaviour there is a higher probability they will be estp. Given that large groups of people provide exceptions, we have to think in probability. I'm not trying to propagate a stereotype.

fdg's still not an estp to me.

[Gilly]

...So what Fabie does isn't insulting people? So how can you say that his insults aren't SLE when they aren't insults?

[olduser]

...So what Fabie does isn't insulting people? So how can you say that his insults aren't SLE when they aren't insults?

Some of them are insults, but not typical SLE insults. I said earlier he tends to use them as clever quips preceding arguments rather than meaning to shut another person down.

[Joy]

...So what Fabie does isn't insulting people? So how can you say that his insults aren't SLE when they aren't insults?

Some of them are insults, but not typical SLE insults. I said earlier he tends to use them as clever quips preceding arguments rather than meaning to shut another person down.

Yeah, that too.

[Gilly]

I'm not sure how you can claim to define what qualifies a typical SLE insult.

Just say that's what it seems like to you, and I'll leave you alone.

[Joy]

Just say that's what it seems like to you

What else would I be saying?

(I maintain that he VIs ESTp, fwiw)

[Gilly]

Erm, that was for heath. But I agree with you on VI (Se dominance, at least).

[meatburger]

Hmm i dont know what type FDG is lol. Too much information and ideas to sort through its just too tough. Im one of those people who just likes him though. I know an ESTp who is actually a really really decent guy. Depends on how they are brought up.

Maybe hes just an Advanced ESTp. He realises that spewing Se over the internet looks pretty retarded.

[ScarlettLux]

You know I still haven't seen a picture of FDG

[Gilly]

God...not NEARLY as many SLEs are the arrogant bullies and assholes that so many people stereotype them as...this is seriously one of the most frustrating type stereotypes to me, because I know some really fucking decent SLEs, people who definitely have better morals and are generally nicer people than most of my friends and I.

[meatburger]

You know I still haven't seen a picture of FDG

www.fdgnude.com

God...not NEARLY as many SLEs are the arrogant bullies and assholes that so many people stereotype them as...this is seriously one of the most frustrating type stereotypes to me, because I know some really fucking decent SLEs, people who definitely have better morals and are generally nicer people than most of my friends and I.

Agreed!

We have to remember that hes grown up with an ISFj supervisor mum. Im sure she had some impact on how he turned out :wink:

[olduser]

I'm not sure how you can claim to define what qualifies a typical SLE insult.

Just say that's what it seems like to you, and I'll leave you alone.

why can't i make that qualification? Do I need written consenting proof from a liscensed socionist? I am thouroughly scientific by nature, and i gaurauntee you this observation is not made in any haste. Is your next argument trump going be that my understanding of the insult depends on my intertype relation with estps? or that i'm propogating stereotypes?

Even you have to remark that damn decent ESTps are an exception rather than a rule. You very well know that many many ESTps are provoking assholes. I have no vendetta against estps, but honestly, don't ignore reason/probability in place of your morals and endless exceptions.


lots of estps are assholes.
If someone is a loudmouthed asshole, there is a higher probability that he is an ESTp than any other type.
none of this seems very unbelievable to me.

[FDG]

You know I still haven't seen a picture of FDG

normal after-sleep stance (i know i look angry but i really ain't)



this is a more decent one




anyway one thing against ESTp and in favour of Fi something is that i know i have the capability to pinch the softest spot with a compliment/sentence (well, usually with girls) that creates the biggest emotional reaction (positive, of course)

[Rick]

his criticisms are always borderline nice. He calls people stupid when he has justification-- such as finding a hole in someone's argument. They are more for effect in argument whereas ESTp insults are planned and meant solely to hurt the insultee.

I don't think the SLEs see it this way. And how do you explain that functionally?

[Mea]

You know I still haven't seen a picture of FDG

normal after-sleep stance (i know i look angry but i really ain't)



this is a more decent one




anyway one thing against ESTp and in favour of Fi something is that i know i have the capability to pinch the softest spot with a compliment/sentence (well, usually with girls) that creates the biggest emotional reaction (positive, of course)

*melts*

You're so hawt...

[Rick]

You know I still haven't seen a picture of FDG

normal after-sleep stance (i know i look angry but i really ain't)



this is a more decent one




anyway one thing against ESTp and in favour of Fi something is that i know i have the capability to pinch the softest spot with a compliment/sentence (well, usually with girls) that creates the biggest emotional reaction (positive, of course)

*melts*

You're so hawt...

FDG looks like a high-testerone, territorial, impulsive, chivalrous and gallant kind of guy.

I still tend to think SLE. Visually that's what he mostly comes across as (in my set of images). He has a characteristic downturn of the lips combined with an overall seriousness (steady, direct gaze) that I often see in SLEs. Calm, solid, but generally unpredictable is how he comes across to me

[Expat]

@Rick, as far as they go, don't these traits apply to SEE as well?