Which type do you think I am from the discussion/fotoes?

[FDG]

yeah you do come across as entj honestly.

but you VI just like the ESTp picture that's on socionics.org under SLE

I see about the ENTj. I wish I'd be more confident in it though. ESTp suits alright to me too. Actually lots of types do.

I didn't understand what you mean too well. You mean I VI like someone pictured on socionics.org? That picture is not of me, just in case, it is of a well-known russian socionist who is known for typing using Reinin dichotomies and hand drawings.

Yeah, I know it's not you - I mean that you have the same facial structure as the face depicted there.

Anyway, how are your relations with ISFjs?

[FDG]

You're right that you're different from the end of the nose downwards, yeah. Even though, the hair-cut seems to be similar, too - in the pics where you have your hair longer. But again the ENTj pic has the same haircut aswell, so it's not a good point where to leverage.

The girl looks ISFj to me. Some people might say ENFj, but I really cannot see it.

The one in the centre - IP of some kind.

[Ezra]

Yes. If you are, this is great. This will help me a lot in finding out if I'm ENTj or not. Come on guys, confirm dee as ENTj. I know one thing, dee. You're not ESTp. You don't have the air of ESTp. And you're not ENFj either. You're not over-dramatic enough. (I'm just confirming what you're not from my experience of the few types' descriptions I know concerning socionics.)

YOU HAVE BEEN HERE ON THE FORUM FOR 2 FUCKING DAYS AND YOU'RE ALREADY SPREADING YOUR TYPINGS LIKE GOD. FOR CHIRST SAKE GO PLAY FOOTBALL WITH YOUR MATES.

FDG, when will you learn? I am confident to the point of audacity. I am not a commoner

Sigh. STOP BEING SO FUCKING POMPOUS! You understand how you come across? It's painful to the eye! Painful. You're not doing anything in terms either of getting your type right, or creating a great atmosphere, or adding anything to the forum, or not being a commner. You can be a fucking great person and humble, too, especially if you're a skinny 17-years-old.

Mate, I'm playing up to it! You really think I'm like this in real life?

[FDG]

I don't care! You're annoying to me now, and that's all I'm thinking about, i was only speaking about your posts here

[Ezra]

Okay, sorry.

Peace?

Genuinely, I am sorry. I just don't appreciate people telling me how to run my life and my activities.

[FDG]

Geez I can't control your life from here and it'd be my least interest, i'm just telling you to behave less like an ass

[Ezra]

Geez I can't control your life from here and it'd be my least interest, i'm just telling you to behave less like an ass

Yeah but in doing that you're telling me to jack in all my interests and do something every 'regular' 17-year-old would do. I mean, if it wasn't for your being in your early twenties, you'd tell me to fuck everything I like doing and go clubbing. Just keep that in mind - I don't want to club, I don't want to play football, I want to play with interesting and energising concepts.

[FDG]

Geez I can't control your life from here and it'd be my least interest, i'm just telling you to behave less like an ass

Yeah but in doing that you're telling me to jack in all my interests and do something every 'regular' 17-year-old would do. I mean, if it wasn't for your being in your early twenties, you'd tell me to fuck everything I like doing and go clubbing. Just keep that in mind - I don't want to club, I don't want to play football, I want to play with interesting and energising concepts.

I-AM-JOKING-YOU-CAN-DO-WHAT-YOU-WANT-ITS-JUST-A-FIGURE-OF-SPEECH-TO-MEAN-TO-TAKE-YOURSELF-LESS-SERIOUSLY. MMkay?

[Ezra]

Geez I can't control your life from here and it'd be my least interest, i'm just telling you to behave less like an ass

Yeah but in doing that you're telling me to jack in all my interests and do something every 'regular' 17-year-old would do. I mean, if it wasn't for your being in your early twenties, you'd tell me to fuck everything I like doing and go clubbing. Just keep that in mind - I don't want to club, I don't want to play football, I want to play with interesting and energising concepts.

I-AM-JOKING-YOU-CAN-DO-WHAT-YOU-WANT-ITS-JUST-A-FIGURE-OF-SPEECH-TO-MEAN-TO-TAKE-YOURSELF-LESS-SERIOUSLY. MMkay?

Taking myself less seriously is against my nature.

[Elro]

Taking myself less seriously is against my nature.

I swear you sound like UDP sometimes; this could just as easily be one of his quotes.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Blaze]

Okay, sorry.

Peace?

Genuinely, I am sorry. I just don't appreciate people telling me how to run my life and my activities.

*coughalphacough*

[ScarlettLux]

I like dee more than Ezra. At least he's got some background knowledge of what he's talking about and using others' knowledge/opinions to learn more about Socionics. It's surprising how dee gets along with Ezra so well -- that is a definite indication of at least being in the same quadra? It seems as if Ezra has pissed off just about everyone in this forum in one way or another.. but dee seems to like to cover for him in a way. ISFp and ENTp? I agree that they seem more Alpha than Beta now.

[Elro]

In fact, if anything I admire about you, it's the way you're good at keeping the peace - you know how to calm people down, and you know how to show people you respect them.

If that's really so, then I wonder what type this is most attributable to...

It's attributable to extroverted ethics. ENTj's role function.

[Elro]

Fe creative, from wikisocion:

The person is sensitive to the emotional atmosphere around him, either from an individual, or a group, or even from inanimate objects such as the landscape, the state of the physical environment he happens to be in, or his own emotional associations with the place or people around him. A positive emotional atmophere is essential for his sense of well being and inner peace, and he either tries to promote it himself by directly influencing it around him, or by simply moving away from the environment or the people causing a negative emotional environment in his view. For the SEI, this takes an on-the-spot aspect and is reflected in cracking jokes, trying to make people laugh, or simply moving away from people he perceives as affecting him negatively. For the IEI, this takes a longer-term perspective; so the focus, rather than being on the immediate emotional environment, is on the perceived longer-term emotional state of others towards the individual, and is reflected in trying to be on good terms with those he interacts with or seeking distance or protection from, or "preventively" attacking, those he sees as irremediably hostile emotionally.

Fe dominant, from wikisocion:

The individual is keenly aware of emotions being displayed around him and responds to them immediately, without particularly thinking about it:

* what people are passionate about
* excitement and liveliness
* agitation and irritation
* shock and amazement
* distress and gloominess

The individual perceives reality primarily through the prism of the external emotional atmosphere around him, mainly but not exclusively from the other people present. For instance, the "vibe" given off by a particular place, landscape, work of art, movie etc will also be registered as very significant for the individual.

The individual is inclined to take proactive action to steer that emotional environment in the direction he himself considers appropriate and agreeable in a given situation. Typical examples are: attempts to "liven up" the atmosphere with jokes if people are seen as unnecessarily gloomy or, conversely, to get people in a serious, work-like attitude if seen as inconveniently jolly during a crisis situation. External emotions are perceived by the individual as an accurate reflection of other people's inner state, since that generally applies to the individual himself.

How do either of those fit?

[Elro]

OK, but could you humor me and bold what you agree with in my two quotes? That way it will be very clear how all four of the descriptions compare.

[Ezra]

Okay, sorry.

Peace?

Genuinely, I am sorry. I just don't appreciate people telling me how to run my life and my activities.

*coughalphacough*

*coughnocough*

[Ezra]

I like dee more than Ezra. At least he's got some background knowledge of what he's talking about and using others' knowledge/opinions to learn more about Socionics. It's surprising how dee gets along with Ezra so well -- that is a definite indication of at least being in the same quadra? It seems as if Ezra has pissed off just about everyone in this forum in one way or another.. but dee seems to like to cover for him in a way. ISFp and ENTp? I agree that they seem more Alpha than Beta now.

Maybe dee's not a cretin. Maybe dee a) knows I take the piss and b) has patience and is willing to help me.

[olduser]

didn't read thread. impression: beta-- enfj or estp.

[Ezra]

I like that.

I agree.

dee, have you read about the quadras? Expat wrote some very good quality stuff at Wikisocion. Here:

http://wikisocion.org/~wikisoci/en/i...?title=Quadras

It may help you to size down your choices as it did me.

[olduser]

oh, thank you dee, but i'll be foregoing that option. Although i am sure it would be a great pleasure.

[Exodus]

In fact, if anything I admire about you, it's the way you're good at keeping the peace - you know how to calm people down, and you know how to show people you respect them.

If that's really so, then I wonder what type this is most attributable to...

It's attributable to extroverted ethics. ENTj's role function.

Yes. It's amazing that someone can be described so accurately and yet typed so poorly.

[Ezra]

Welcome, health! Feel free to browse previous posts, I'll also be posting more.

@Ezra:

I didn't know they have different descriptions to those @ socionics.us. I'll read into them and will post what I think. Thanks for that.

Really? I thought the Wikisocion ones were more expanded than on Rick's site. I still found his stuff very good though. We're lucky to have a link like him.

[Ezra]

No problems, health.

He's called heath.

[Ezra]

Actually, I'm reopening this thread.

I've done this a few times in my head. Not so much concerning threads but things like "right, forget socionics, it's getting me nowhere". Then later coming back and thinking "wait, I can find my perfect match through it". Or I'll decide on a type, and then think about it for 10 - 15 minutes, and suddenly realise I'm something different. Then I'll change back.

The tactic I use to stop it is to refrain from saying anything. That way, if you know you may change in the near future, it won't matter - no one knows or cares what you think - it's what you say (especially on this forum).

[Expat]

Thanks, Elro! Sorry I was a little to dry the last post

Fe creative, from wikisocion:

The person is sensitive to the emotional atmosphere around him, either from an individual, or a group, or even from inanimate objects such as the landscape, the state of the physical environment he happens to be in, or his own emotional associations with the place or people around him. A positive emotional atmophere is essential for his sense of well being and inner peace, and he either tries to promote it himself by directly influencing it around him, or by simply moving away from the environment or the people causing a negative emotional environment in his view. For the SEI, this takes an on-the-spot aspect and is reflected in cracking jokes, trying to make people laugh, or simply moving away from people he perceives as affecting him negatively. For the IEI, this takes a longer-term perspective; so the focus, rather than being on the immediate emotional environment, is on the perceived longer-term emotional state of others towards the individual, and is reflected in trying to be on good terms with those he interacts with or seeking distance or protection from, or "preventively" attacking, those he sees as irremediably hostile emotionally.

Fe dominant, from wikisocion:

The individual is keenly aware of emotions being displayed around him and responds to them immediately, without particularly thinking about it:

* what people are passionate about
* excitement and liveliness
* agitation and irritation
* shock and amazement
* distress and gloominess

The individual perceives reality primarily through the prism of the external emotional atmosphere around him, mainly but not exclusively from the other people present. For instance, the "vibe" given off by a particular place, landscape, work of art, movie etc will also be registered as very significant for the individual.

The individual is inclined to take proactive action to steer that emotional environment in the direction he himself considers appropriate and agreeable in a given situation. Typical examples are: attempts to "liven up" the atmosphere with jokes if people are seen as unnecessarily gloomy or, conversely, to get people in a serious, work-like attitude if seen as inconveniently jolly during a crisis situation. External emotions are perceived by the individual as an accurate reflection of other people's inner state, since that generally applies to the individual himself.

How do either of those fit?

For the record, I wrote those two descriptions; the whole of the creative bit and most of the dominant bit (excepting the bullet-point parts), with Rick and other contributors checking.

[Expat]

Welcome, health! Feel free to browse previous posts, I'll also be posting more.

@Ezra:

I didn't know they have different descriptions to those @ socionics.us. I'll read into them and will post what I think. Thanks for that.

Really? I thought the Wikisocion ones were more expanded than on Rick's site. I still found his stuff very good though. We're lucky to have a link like him.

Just for explanation -- everything in socionics.us, as far as I know, has been written by Rick himself.

In the wikisocion, the descriptions are the result of collaboration and mutual correction. Rick has written a lot himself, so have I and others, but Rick does comment on what he thinks is clearly wrong.

So, if I may say so, if you are going to use bits of Wikisocion as reference, you might well listen a bit to those who have written it

[Ezra]

Welcome, health! Feel free to browse previous posts, I'll also be posting more.

@Ezra:

I didn't know they have different descriptions to those @ socionics.us. I'll read into them and will post what I think. Thanks for that.

Really? I thought the Wikisocion ones were more expanded than on Rick's site. I still found his stuff very good though. We're lucky to have a link like him.

Just for explanation -- everything in socionics.us, as far as I know, has been written by Rick himself.

In the wikisocion, the descriptions are the result of collaboration and mutual correction. Rick has written a lot himself, so have I and others, but Rick does comment on what he thinks is clearly wrong.

So, if I may say so, if you are going to use bits of Wikisocion as reference, you might well listen a bit to those who have written it

Expat, I don't know where you've got this idea from that I don't listen to you! I truly do! You're probably one of the few people I take utterly seriously! I do look up to you as a good teacher of socionics.

[Expat]

Expat, I don't know where you've got this idea from that I don't listen to you! I truly do! You're probably one of the few people I take utterly seriously! I do look up to you as a good teacher of socionics.

Ok thanks.

On dee's type:

INFp or ISFp, as was my first impression but I have seen nothing to contradict it, with INFp more likely.

The thing that seems clear is a lot of emotion-creating behavior coupled with Fe, and cre-Fe specifically.

[Ezra]

I see. Thanks, Expat. Hmm... Actually, if I weren't in the state of paralysis by analysis right now, I could probably see things better in terms of how different functions in different models fit me or not. However, I think that dual/conflictor relationship gauge thing is still quite fresh to me. ENTj and ESTj descriptions I kinda find comfortable both the same. And in reality, I know a couple of both types too, and they also, are kinda similar in the level of comfort with them as well as in that they are not the easiest to get on with and I have to exert a quite some effort in communicating with them. ESTPs and ENTPs I find, overall, much more comfortable. ESTps, in particular, I find a little crazier and fun than ENTps, who I find a little more goofy and boring (I just know one ENTp for sure though), however ESTps can be a little too tough sometimes and ENTps are usually always childishly endearing, which doesn't really, from my point of view, plays up to either one.

You know how you say ESTps are more crazy and fun than ENTps? I don't see how that works. The Ne of the ENTp makes them by nature crazier. ESTps, by contrast, I'd say were more boring than ENTps. They're also more combative. If you're an ENTp, you probably have a more friendly, less confrontational character. ESTps are more methodical and systematic - ENTps jump around in their heads a lot more. I think the fun you have with either depends on the situation and your own preferences. I'd say talking about films and music while listening to music is more fun than clubbing and partying and dancing like an ESTp would prefer.

I wish they had a sure method to say which type you are...

Join the club. It won't happen for a while though. Just be glad in the knowledge that we're a part of something that's beginning to take shape. We're like the forerunners of socionics, everyone on this forum. In maybe a decade or two, it will be more evolved, and it'll look good.

[Blaze]

entp's can be intellectually aggressive though and in their heads. estp's can be more down to earth and sensual and practical. which type is preferred? depends on the kind of relationship and the situation....

[FDG]

I don't know why people make clubbing and watching films to be perfect subsitutes. Therea are 365 nights in a year, duh.

[Ezra]

entp's can be intellectually aggressive though and in their heads.

Yeah, but I'm talking about the kind of aggression that is very direct and not about debate and argument but about "I'm right goddamnit, do this, do that, I command you to" etc.

[Ezra]

I don't think that is definitely always the case. I think ESTps would enjoy that too.

They'd prefer 'doing' activities over thinking and talking.

[Ezra]

dee, what are your options at the moment? How many types are you roughly considering, and how many aren't even worth bothering with?

[UDP]

Considering (most to least likely):
ESTp
ENTp
ISFj

If those are your top 3, you have much to understand about socionics. Keep going.

[Expat]

Considering (most to least likely):
ESTp
ENTp
ISFj

The problem with that selection is that ENTp and ISFj are conflictors. If you rank ENTp and ISFj so closely, you might as well say that you could be any type in between that is, any type.

[astralsilky]

OK, I started reading ... then skimming ... up to page 3 ... and saw the initial pix. Feeling lazy now ...

My guess is ISFp. At least, Si > Ni dom seems more likely. You seem to bash ISTps, yet you might even be one. (The 16 types cover a *wide* variety of people, after all ...)

As for the Renin dichomoties - and esp. typing by them - I am not (yet?) a believer; and so, wouldn't worry about discrepancies in that arena.

dee, do you have any more expressive photos of yourself, especially ones that aren't so cropped?

[astralsilky]

I put ISFj there because one socionic Roman Kozin was very confident when he said that I'm of that type. Personally, I'd put in the "don't bother" section. But he said that since I was not so long after studying a technical course for 4 years, my super ego was sort of dominating (INTj). That really does it against easy typing in some cases if true, doesn't it? As for the rest, it's mostly how I personally view the types likelihood of being mine.

The probability of you being an ISTp seems greater than ISFj or INTj - especially if you can identify with both, to some degree.

[Elro]

I put ISFj there because one socionic Roman Kozin was very confident when he said that I'm of that type. Personally, I'd put in the "don't bother" section. But he said that since I was not so long after studying a technical course for 4 years, my super ego was sort of dominating (INTj). That really does it against easy typing in some cases if true, doesn't it? As for the rest, it's mostly how I personally view the types likelihood of being mine.

The probability of you being an ISTp seems greater than ISFj or INTj.

Fe PoLR? I kinda doubt it... The only thing that seems incredibly clear to me is Fe ego. Though really the probability of any of those three types seems somewhat low.