ESTp uncovered profile

[IEI]

It's probably all your fault..

lol

[IEI]

no no you got it all wrong, you're going against the grain

ahhhhh. I can't help it.

[Absurd]

[rat1]

Projection much?

Marriage counsellor who tried to find what it was that caused some couples to be happy and others to not be. She's made a name for herself. WILL YOU?

Learn the definition of projection.
We know augusta was a lonely, sad woman. How she longed for her dual but never found them. Now she's mislead tons of people (you guys on this board) into believing duality will solve all your problems. Yeah she made a name for herself amongst the withered, desperate masses. She gave them a glimmer of false hope. And no, I don't plan on following in her footsteps.

[thePirate]

After admiring them for ages my eyes have been opened.

Here are my reasons:

1) SLE's take advantage of others and think of nothing but their own self interests. Yes you will have read this before in the negative personality descriptions but it is true and remember this will at some point translate into them taking advantage of you and people you love and care about.

2) They appear loyal but it is only so that they can meet their own wants and needs. They will turn on you if it helps them win in the blink of an eye with no guilt. So in my book that means they are not loyal.

3) They don't care about you as a person at all. Do they even know you really with any depth? You are an object to be charmed into doing stuff for the SLE.

4) As you admire their social skills remember this. Everything is for the audience. It is not because they want to make you feel comfortable. You will be glad they did make you feel at ease but don't shower admiration on them as that is not why they are doing it. It is only to feed their huge egos and remain center of attention. They don't care about making you feel comfortable.

5) They abuse peoples respect for feelings to get what they want. They act upset or hurt to get you to do stuff. If SLE is acting like this remember it is not real it is manipulation dont fall for it. If you dont believe me and feel your IEI heart being tugged on try resisting or say no to the SLE. They switch tact from hurt or upset to forceful and pissed off way too quickly for it to be genuine.

6) You are a toy to amuse them or a tool to help them win. Once they get bored they have no hesitation in dropping you. Yes even after everything you have done for them. They will then return with a whats your problem attitude later and tell you to do more stuff for them.

7) They expect you to do stuff for them they dont see it as a favour or you helping them out. IT IS EXPECTED. They may say thanks (rare) but they dont mean it. They only say it because they want to keep you motivated to do more stuff for them in the future. They are not actually grateful.

Duality is dangerous. IEI and SLE should not be together.

This fits ESFp's better than ESTp's. It more or less still applies to ESTps though, but yeah, it's the nature of Se to objectify people and things. At healthier levels they see people as people, or maybe certain people as people, but the unhealthier levels can be a nuisance (but then again, who when unhealthy isn't?). I wanted to post a long rant agreeing, but its kind of unfair to bash on the unhealthy characteristics of a certain type when others have traits that are equally as bad - just screen out the unhealthy individuals and you should be fine.

[discojoe]

Or just find a fucking amazing LSI like me, who is sexy and awesome in every way, who transcends type with his utter charisma.

Where type ends, discojoe begins.

Oh wait, there's only one. Sorry. This is just an attention whore post. I'll be on my merry way.

[rat1]

Just go to a book club and sit down next to the first hot 28 year old girl you see. Tell her you want to test her memory, then go from there. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't.

[Creepy-Snaps]

All intertype relations are flawed, but some are just idealizations of our happy fantasies. Did you ever really expect to like all SLEs? Or that SLEs would be the answer to all your dreams? Duality has as many flaws as the other socionics relationships. Augusta was just a lonely, sad theoretician who idealized duality as some escape from her obsessive mentalizing. She had a need for duality to be more than it actually is. And she wasnt even groundbreaking with her ideas. Socionics is basically other peoples ideas haphazardly mashed together in a way which is confusing enough to be bought into.

Dating someone healthy and mature enough to have a relationship > dating someone who's more socionically compatible with you.

[IEI]

Just go to a book club and sit down next to the first hot 28 year old girl you see. Tell her you want to test her memory, then go from there. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't.

lol so in this scenario I'm a lesbian?

[Birdie]

I take it you had sex with the 74 year old?

[IEI]

They're not sentimental creatures by any means, and if they feel like you're a negative influence, offer nothing & drag them down then they'll drop you with little remorse; but honestly, if you think about it, that's not a bad quality at all.

Remember, there are assholes of every type. SLE's are just more in your face about it. They don't sugarcoat anything (unless it's business related), and if you can't handle that then you're not going to get along with them, period. I actually love their straightforward, honest & blunt approach to life; It's admirable & I often use it to my advantage. .

To be clear i have no problem with SLE's speaking their mind i also admired this quality and to a certain extent still do.

I am not a negative influence and I don't drag the SLE down. I'm sure he would agree with this. When i say my eyes have been opened it may be helpful to add I have known the guy for several years this is not fleeting comments on someone I barely know. The reason he has dropped me is because he has more exciting toys and tools to play with and use, he has exciting new exeperiences to get involved in as a result of all the help he has been given by myself and others. My view is you shouldnt drop people that have helped you along the way. I think if you asked for his view he would struggle to remember my name or really understand what I am on about.

All the things i have posted before about how great duality is still stand (minus the crazy enthusiasm). What I'm saying is there is a downside spending time with someone that doesnt look at things on a deeper level and wants to win at all costs. This may not be apparent when you get caught up in the initial fun of duality.

[IEI]

I take it you had sex with the 74 year old?

Hahahahahah no but well remembered. Actually i saw him the other day and he leaned right into my face (we were nose to nose) and just smiled at me. It was kinda awkward lol

[IEI]

Or just find a fucking amazing LSI like me, who is sexy and awesome in every way, who transcends type with his utter charisma.

Where type ends, discojoe begins.

Oh wait, there's only one. Sorry. This is just an attention whore post. I'll be on my merry way.

[Park]

Or just find a fucking amazing LSI like me, who is sexy and awesome in every way, who transcends type with his utter charisma.

Where type ends, discojoe begins.

Oh wait, there's only one. Sorry. This is just an attention whore post. I'll be on my merry way.

Attention earned.

[Ezra]

Don't take it personally, I'm just ranting cause my feelings have been hurt.

I don't. I'm just telling you that there are better people out there than the sociopath.

Learn the definition of projection.
We know augusta was a lonely, sad woman. How she longed for her dual but never found them. Now she's mislead tons of people (you guys on this board) into believing duality will solve all your problems. Yeah she made a name for herself amongst the withered, desperate masses. She gave them a glimmer of false hope. And no, I don't plan on following in her footsteps.

Do you think people think it solves all their problems? That would be naive.

Just because you've had a bad experience with one SLE doesn't mean they're all the same. Believe it or not, SLE's can & do fall in love, and they certainly care about the feelings of the ones they adore. Yes, I have noticed that If they don't care about you they'll usually have little to no empathy. SLE's are quite simple & they don't like to lead cluttered lives. They're not sentimental creatures by any means, and if they feel like you're a negative influence, offer nothing & drag them down then they'll drop you with little remorse; but honestly, if you think about it, that's not a bad quality at all.

Remember, there are assholes of every type. SLE's are just more in your face about it. They don't sugarcoat anything (unless it's business related), and if you can't handle that then you're not going to get along with them, period. I actually love their straightforward, honest & blunt approach to life; It's admirable & I often use it to my advantage.

<3+1000

Or just find a fucking amazing LSI like me, who is sexy and awesome in every way, who transcends type with his utter charisma.

Where type ends, discojoe begins.

Uhh, I'd watch out for this guy.



It's best if you stick to your own kind.

[thePirate]

The reason he has dropped me is because he has more exciting toys and tools to play with and use, he has exciting new exeperiences to get involved in as a result of all the help he has been given by myself and others. My view is you shouldnt drop people that have helped you along the way. I think if you asked for his view he would struggle to remember my name or really understand what I am on about.

All the things i have posted before about how great duality is still stand (minus the crazy enthusiasm). What I'm saying is there is a downside spending time with someone that doesnt look at things on a deeper level and wants to win at all costs. This may not be apparent when you get caught up in the initial fun of duality.

Okay, the more I read into your posts the more biased I see they are. SLE's have Ni DS which means that even though they are not constantly analyzing things like IEI's, they do tend to look at deeper things from time to time and can be really insightful. More developed ones actually come into a lot of Ni insights through their use of Ti. Having Ni as a dual seeking function means that they want and have a deep need to see deeper into things, regardless of them doing it frequently or not themselves. Also the winning at all costs thing has more to do with immaturity - betas are all prideful and competitive in certain ways, and yes SLE's can be a bit more stubborn in that department, but I don't find them to be TOO unreasonable - I mean, they can be, but I don't see them as being people you can't eventually talk to about something and reach a consensus on..

Also, I'm curious as to what you mean by dropping you? As in not returning phone calls, not hanging out, etc? Once your close friends with an SLE, I would consider them to be really loyal - a lot of people correlate loyalty to Fi, which I wouldn't say is fully encompassing of loyalty but only a certain brand. Actually, IMO, real loyalty, or at least my conception of it, is Ti. Fi based loyalty is emotional and subject to whims, while Ti based loyalty is based on logical principles that are unbreakable. It has a solid structure to it, a sense of duty that Fi doesn't always have - this also correlates to the hypocrisy I notice in Fi types and how I consider that a form of unreliability - but this isn't a bash Fi thread, the point I'm making is that what you are talking about here may not be type related. It is possible that you met a disloyal SLE but I would ask myself why - was our 'relationship' actually real, was he healthy, etc.? I mean some of the stuff you write I can see in unhealthier SLE's but your main qualms don't seem to be type related.

As a side note,some of the negative things you have talked about are some things that SLE's struggle with, mainly the craving for attention/stimulation, impulsiveness leading to hasty decisions, which may reinforce negative worldviews, and sometimes, even knowing the 'good/best path' Ni path, they will take the other route just for fun(also true of ESFps). While its good to be aware of that kind of stuff (as I think some people are just delusional about their duals here - I mean of all types) its important to balance it out with the good traits too, to get an accurate view of someone, on a personal level, to get a glimpse into how your relationship would play out with time - that's how I think socionics is utilized properly.

Oh also, there is a BIG difference between both ESTp subtypes - it boggles my mind how varied ESTp's can be as I don't see as much variation between other types. So much so that there should be a reference to which subtype you're talking about or the 'stereotype' may not apply as well, if at all.

[discojoe]

skdbgkejvkjnbekjfgblkmejdnlorvkjnehlrgkjnbldfnvler fh

[discojoe]

Oh and Pezra, I'm responding to your Facebook pm in all its hilariously dissociated glory.

[rat1]

Do you think people think it solves all their problems? That would be naive.

Yes I do. People on here really believe when they find duality their life is gona change. I know that.

[IEI]

Okay, the more I read into your posts the more biased I see they are. .

I wont argue with this point. My thread was triggered by an emotional outburst so it does not present a balanced view. I will probably try and delete it in a few days

SLE's have Ni DS which means that even though they are not constantly analyzing things like IEI's, they do tend to look at deeper things from time to time and can be really insightful. .

I agree the SLE i know has a very deep understanding of problems which require a practical solution and grasps what's really going on behind the scenes. Unfortunately in my experience this doesn't translate into being interested in understanding people... getting to know what makes them tick....what motivates them.... what they want and need... what is important to them. I think this causes a lot of people to get pissed off with the SLE.

Also the winning at all costs thing has more to do with immaturity - betas are all prideful and competitive in certain ways, and yes SLE's can be a bit more stubborn in that department, but I don't find them to be TOO unreasonable - I mean, they can be, but I don't see them as being people you can't eventually talk to about something and reach a consensus on...

Hmmmm. I refer to your comment that there is a great variation within type. This paticular SLE is very stubborn, unreasonable and uncompromising. On reflection so am I.

Also, I'm curious as to what you mean by dropping you? As in not returning phone calls, not hanging out, etc? Once your close friends with an SLE, I would consider them to be really loyal...

Yes. Not returning calls acting more formal and distant in the very few recent interactions we have had.... like a stranger

It is possible that you met a disloyal SLE but I would ask myself why - was our 'relationship' actually real, was he healthy, etc.? I mean some of the stuff you write I can see in unhealthier SLE's but your main qualms don't seem to be type related....

I am asking myself the same question.... was our friendship real or was I a means to an end? Used then dropped once i no longer served a purpose. Many people told me the SLE was using me, I didnt listen. The fact that others said this to me makes me think I was viewing the friendship through rose tinted spectacles.

Oh also, there is a BIG difference between both ESTp subtypes - it boggles my mind how varied ESTp's can be as I don't see as much variation between other types. So much so that there should be a reference to which subtype you're talking about or the 'stereotype' may not apply as well, if at all.

I would guess Se subtype.

[discojoe]

Most of the SLEs I've known have been some mix of the following:

Naive to the point of comedy when it comes to following people, provided they sound like they know what they're talking about.

Serial cheaters without remorse.

Paranoid about someone making fun of them even in good humor. They'll pretend to laugh but actually want to hit you.

Prone to domestic abuse and then having this babyish justification for it ("WELL HE WAS BEING GAY").

Over-compensatory behavior caused by anxiety over whether they can be loved. It manifests as belligerence, social provocation.

Unwilling to stop harassing you unless you give them positive emotional feedback instead of mad Fi-sounding feedback. They'll go "HUURRR HURRRR NOPE" until you stop saying "Fuck off!" and start going "Tee hee ur funny and we're buddies and take that broom my butt says hi."

Prone to dynamically justifying every whim they have while pretending to be objective.

I'd speculate that they disproportionately lack common sense.



Some good qualities:

Loyal friends who don't get all awkward because they haven't seen you in a long time.

Good at butting in line in social situations, literally and figuratively.

Good at going to jail.

They aggressively jump in and assertively say whatever the hell they want, even if it's stupid and wrong.

Tactically resourceful in high-pressure situations.

Lack of self-awareness allows them to coldly do things that need to be done while thinking it's no big deal.

Other stuff maybe.

[glam]

I hate SLEs

heh, lately i've been a bit down on my dual too.

[IEI]

Most of the SLEs I've known have been some mix of the following:

Naive to the point of comedy when it comes to following people, provided they sound like they know what they're talking about..

This particular SLE surrounds himself with this type of individual. The sort that would describe a small achievement as a huge success and talks themself up all the time. As I'm listening my skin crawls as I'm allergic to bull shit.

Serial cheaters without remorse...

Another SLE friend I have known for much longer has been married for 10 years and has 2 kids. He travels to get to work so is away from home a lot. The last time we met he told me he has moved in wih his 'during the week' girlfriend and she is pregnant. He is leading a double life and travels back to his wife at the weekend. He told me this at his wifes birthday party. He is great fun but feck being married to him.

Paranoid about someone making fun of them even in good humor. They'll pretend to laugh but actually want to hit you....

Yes. They laugh but are frowning at the same time and you can sense the aggression. I find this behaviour amusing.

Prone to domestic abuse and then having this babyish justification for it ("WELL HE WAS BEING GAY").....

I havent experienced or observed domestic abuse

Unwilling to stop harassing you unless you give them positive emotional feedback instead of mad Fi-sounding feedback. They'll go "HUURRR HURRRR NOPE" until you stop saying "Fuck off!" and start going "Tee hee ur funny and we're buddies and take that broom my butt says hi."").....

lol I giggled once when the SLE said something (this surprised me and i felt embarrassed as I'm not 16 and therefore too old to giggle). The SLE was delighted and kept repeating the same thing over and over again waiting for the giggle. It was a weird scenario having to conjure up giggles on demand.

Prone to dynamically justifying every whim they have while pretending to be objective......

I think a lot of people miss this about them and believe the logical reason they give for doing something.

Some good qualities:

Loyal friends who don't get all awkward because they haven't seen you in a long time.

Good at butting in line in social situations, literally and figuratively.

Good at going to jail.

They aggressively jump in and assertively say whatever the hell they want, even if it's stupid and wrong.

Tactically resourceful in high-pressure situations.

Lack of self-awareness allows them to coldly do things that need to be done while thinking it's no big deal.

Other stuff maybe.

Yes, stop it, im trying to hate them here.

[IEI]

heh, lately i've been a bit down on my dual too.

[Ezra]

Yes I do. People on here really believe when they find duality their life is gona change. I know that.

Then they're idiots. Anyone who thinks it's the answer to life's problems is. But of the people on here I know have actually experienced duality, 90% of them say it's great. Which isn't an overstatement. It is great.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Nice pic.

[IEI]

Yeah so may as well come clean.... I made up with my dual.

He's got me twisted round his bloody finger and I'm off doing stuff for him again

There is no escaping

[Ezra]

Yeah so may as well come clean.... I made up with my dual.

He's got me twisted round his bloody finger and I'm off doing stuff for him again

There is no escaping

Yes, there is. If he did that, and he really did that and you weren't exaggerating, then you're an idiot. Also, you're not really doing yourself any favours by getting with a tosser.

[IEI]

Yes, there is. If he did that, and he really did that and you weren't exaggerating, then you're an idiot. Also, you're not really doing yourself any favours by getting with a tosser.

You are of course correct and make another good point.

Stupid heart

[thePirate]

You are of course correct and make another good point.

Stupid heart

Are you actually going to take that to heart, or are you going to disregard it? The person you described sounds horrible, regardless of what type he is. Removing yourself from his presence may be the best option for you.

[Satan]

if you hate them so much, then why not just cut them off?

[Jenna]

Who cares, its her life, if she wants to waste it by being taken advantage of, so be it. You guys aren't going to convince her of anything.

[discojoe]

Also, you're not really doing yourself any favours by getting with a tosser.

rofl

That made me laugh for some reason. hahaha

Getting with a tosser. lmao

[Ezra]

Who cares, its her life, if she wants to waste it by being taken advantage of, so be it. You guys aren't going to convince her of anything.

Fuck off.

[Gilly]

Yeah so may as well come clean.... I made up with my dual.

He's got me twisted round his bloody finger and I'm off doing stuff for him again

There is no escaping

Being used is worse than being alone; living only for yourself is better than living only for someone else.

[Gilly]

Fuck off.

Yea forreal. Everyone gets themselves into shit they cant get out of alone once in a while; she shouldn't be cast into the abyss just because she needs a springboard to get over it.

[Slacker]

You've had a bad break-up? Sorry you're going through that.

[IEI]

Are you actually going to take that to heart, or are you going to disregard it? The person you described sounds horrible, regardless of what type he is. Removing yourself from his presence may be the best option for you.

if you hate them so much, then why not just cut them off?

They appear out of no-where lol

Who cares, its her life, if she wants to waste it by being taken advantage of, so be it. You guys aren't going to convince her of anything.

[IEI]

rofl

That made me laugh for some reason. hahaha

Getting with a tosser. lmao

Yeah me too. Not really the best plan is it.

Fuck off.

Thank you!

Yea forreal. Everyone gets themselves into shit they cant get out of alone once in a while; she shouldn't be cast into the abyss just because she needs a springboard to get over it.

+1000

[IEI]

You've had a bad break-up? Sorry you're going through that.

thanks