The Philosophies of a Meaningless Life

[Cone]

Transigent once said that nihilism is the philosophy of the child.

looking to superiors to validate one's convictions is childish. nihilism is an acute fixation, a jaunt into worlds where semblance and illusion dance freely with substance and meaning. it is in no way an inferior mindform being, at the least, the functional equivalent of its antecedents whilst allowing for the dread realization that inherent contradiction =/= a neuter of the material's significance

I absolutely agree, but I don't think that's what Transigent meant; or at least that's not how I used the quote. I mean (he means) "nihilism" as a lack of interpersonal responsibility. The child depends on his parents, but nothing depends on him, so he is not obligated to stay alive for the sake of another. It's this responsibility that seems to form the basis of living, although I know that this is not always the case. But I do question the plausibility of living for purely egocentric goals and whether it is mentally possible to live as an "island".

[xiuxiu]

transigent's version comes across as naivete rather than nihilism. nihilism is a state that can take hold after one enters adulthood, yet some prefer clinging to naivete as it is ripped away; enter nihilism. though that is often mistaken for teen angst. true nihilism may only come after adult emotion and responsibility are realized. also, true nihilism cannot just be a reaction merely to negative events. just my take.

[UDP]

Is life meaningless?

That is one of my worst fears.

Dreamer,
consider that if life is meaningless,
so to is that fear.

I'm just bumping this again, because I like my response.


If life is meaningless, then you've got nothing to worry about , because it doesn't matter.

However, if there is a 'purpose' that I see, it is spiritual cultivation.

[Hugo]

Worry implies importance.

[discojoe]

Worry implies importance.

Importance is relative. Worry implies the possibility of something happening that is not in the accepted best interest of someone.

[Hugo]

If a mother worries about her child, can that not be in the best interest of the child/mother?

[aestrivex]

each individual has a purpose according to the Will of God.

LIES LIES LIES.

[UDP]

Will of God ~ natural laws

I can agree, essentially

[FDG]

each individual has a purpose according to the Will of God.

Joking, I hope

[dreikin]

each individual has a purpose according to the Will of God.

Yep! - slavery.

(accepting your assumptions, that is)

[Grek0]

I agree that in general, what seems to be giving meaning is the existence of a purpose, but can we say this applies to the "ultimate meaning" question as well? I do not agree that "the sole purpose of parents is the survival of their child", i.e that that the sole purpose of human beings is to give birth to ever increasing numbers of other human beings.

However..let's keep in mind that explaining something by purpose leads to infinite regress. You can keep asking the "what is this for?" question for ever, without reaching an ultimate end. However, is this knowledge or realisation enough to justify our reaching the conclusion that life is meaningless? I find the certainty expressed by many people here over the lack of ultimate meaning rather puzzling..

[Capitalist Pig]

And if there is such a thing as ultimate meaning, is it relative to all life or just human life, and why?

[UDP]

As objective as people try to be, humans can never escape that

"meaning"

is a subjective, human manifestation. The world didn't create "meaning", humans created that concept over time. It's the same illustion as "oh, look at that person in the mirror -- that is me".






As far as I go, though, I believe there is a general way of things. I see patterns. But then again, that's just how I see things, in patterns.

[Grek0]

Cogsci puts forward a very valid question that follows naturally from what has been said so far.

Well life, whatever it is, seems to have taken a myriad of forms, from bacteria to humans. If we all agree that it is the same basic "life force" that animates all these life forms, then if ths life force has a meaning, or if it is in pursuit of something, then we have every reason to believe that all life forms partake in the same meaningful pursuit.

But at the same time, there seems to be something that separates humans from every other life form we have come to know: a self-reflective consciousness. So whatever life is, it seems to have been following a route towards ever increasing complexity and has now, with the evolution of humans, reached a stage where a self-reflective consciousness has appeared. In other words, it seems to me that through humans, "life" has become conscious of itself, of its existence, it started reflecting on its own nature.

Also, as the complexity of life increases, the latter's ability to intervene and actually alter the "natural = undisturbed/deterministic" flow of events also seems to increase. Could it be that through ever more conscious life forms, the world ("nature", "God", call it as you wish) has managed to gradually escape from the deterministic boundaries that unsconscious existence imposed upon itself and thus become able to try out different futures, different possibilities, explore its own nature and through that, enrich its pool of experience and knowledge?
If so, then maybe the purpose of humans, as the form of life most conscious of itself (at least to our knowledge), is to attain the highest possible level of consciousness, with each individual building up his/her own knowledge and experience and differentiating him/herself from the unsconscious whole, while at the same time being aware of his/her roots into that whole, and thus the relations that connect them.


When I was little, i remember hearing somewhere that the whole universe could actually be one giant "organism" that decided to break itself into trillions of pieces and send them out in all directions and dimensions, to collect experiences. That painted a powerful mental image in my mind that I will never forget; I found that concept fascinating

[XoX]

And if there is such a thing as ultimate meaning, is it relative to all life or just human life, and why?

Why restrict it only to "life"? I mean what is "life" anyways? The ultimate meaning if there is one is relative to everything I suppose. The problem is "meaning" is a difficult concept itself like UDP mentioned.

[Grek0]

I with you Xox that we shouldnt restrict meaning to the "living" world, however one defines life in a such a way as to split the world into living and non-living things.
This is why i start my post with "life" and then basically extend meaning to the whole of nature, animate and inanimate.

As to definitions, I think we all pretty much grasp what we refer to by "meaning" here, regardless of whether we agree or not with its existence. This is a philosophical question and linguistic analysis does serve a purpose in defining things clearly enough for us to be able to advance arguments and communicate the same understanding, but beyond that, it becomes a futile exercise that ends up in the ridiculous ascertion that all existential problems are not real, they simply dissapear when we define our words correctly.

[Capitalist Pig]

Actually, defining ultimate meaning was to be my next line of inquiry. :wink:

[rockingdom]

I'm with meatburger-- all of the deepest aspects of life can be divided into life/love or death/fear. I know that sounds like an oversimplification but it's true if you really think about it. Our meaning may well be to embrace the former and not be possessed by the latter, whatever that means to you.

[Creepy-bg]

I'm with meatburger-- all of the deepest aspects of life can be divided into life/love or death/fear. I know that sounds like an oversimplification but it's true if you really think about it. Our meaning may well be to embrace the former and not be possessed by the latter, whatever that means to you.

Jesus... straight out of Donnie Darko (great movie!)

[meatburger]

Thanks Rockingdom

Jesus... straight out of Donnie Darko (great movie!)

The one similarity i see with all forms of life is that it wants to survive. If it cant survive it will often sacrifice itself so its peers can survive. I dont actually see us purely as breeding machines, i see it also as our duty to contribute positively to the human race in any way we can.

If i make someone smile or inspire them, even if its for a tiny moment, for that moment i have reduced someones suffering. In that moment i have created something outside myself, something meaningful.

[rockingdom]

i see it also as our duty to contribute positively to the human race in any way we can.

If i make someone smile or inspire them, even if its for a tiny moment, for that moment i have reduced someones suffering. In that moment i have created something outside myself, something meaningful.

As for the former, I couldn't really agree more, that's why meaning to me is being able to see for myself what's really important and living up to that because our world is highly imperfect and tends to embrace many of those who are covertly destroying society. It's more or less about be creative and not destructive; standing for the right things and living your life with integrity.

The latter: that's just the classic ENFp within you talking =]

Most people, in my experience, don't think or don't care about the meaning of life, and some have pretty twisted views (in my opinion). To the onlooker it seems as though they're more carefree and better off but it's easy to live life moving from one meaningless sensation to another without thinking about the significance of your actions. That's just an empty shell of an existence. To me, the most satisfying thing you can do is change other peoples' lives for the better.

[Slava]

Socionics gives life meaning... it makes it a fun adventure with a higher intelligence making cool things happen allong the way and patterns and missions and new relationships and self improvement.

[Gilly]

Don't look anywhere outside yourself for meaning to life. Don't look to logic or moral causes or anything like that; doing that is just a lack of self-confidence that invariably precipitates depression and self-questioning. Have the confidence to assign whatever meaning you want to life. Find what you love, and make that what life means to you.

[Animal]

We are not defined by our function.

We are defined by purpose.

We define our purpose.

Don't look anywhere outside yourself for meaning to life. Don't look to logic or moral causes or anything like that; doing that is just a lack of self-confidence that invariably precipitates depression and self-questioning. Have the confidence to assign whatever meaning you want to life. Find what you love, and make that what life means to you.

I never quite understood the school of thought that dictates that life must have a meaning defined outside ourselves. I don't understand, even, how this is any comfort. Every time I decide to let my God, or my President, or my Swami, or my parents, or my friends disclose the true meaning and purpose of life to me, I am overtaken by a crippling sense of obligation, and the anger, and depression that accompanies that obligation for fear I should not accomplish my purpose in life. Along with them, such timeless and primordial questians as: "Is a retarded person obligated to fulfill his dharma?" - "Is my cousin who died at five in a car accident, doomed to suffer karmic justice because he never achieved nirvana in his short lifespan?" - "Would a Bornean shaman be able to exempt himself from one of the many various levels of Hell, by claiming ignorance because he'd never heard of Jesus Christ?"

Of course, we could go about defining life as "not death." What can't you do in death that you can do in life? (Answer: Everything except being dead. Even comatose people breathe.)

I think Buddha said it best: "Whatever ripens your banana."

[rockingdom]

Don't look anywhere outside yourself for meaning to life. Don't look to logic or moral causes or anything like that; doing that is just a lack of self-confidence that invariably precipitates depression and self-questioning. Have the confidence to assign whatever meaning you want to life. Find what you love, and make that what life means to you.

Not everybody needs to look toward moral causes for meaning but if that's what gives you meaning or makes you happy (and it does for a lot of people) then there's no lack of self-confidence or invariable depression involved.

[Gilly]

True, but it's only when you realize that the moral or logic only has meaning because YOU give it that meaning that you have a healthy sense of purpose. That's how I see it, anyways.

[Capitalist Pig]

Bah humbug.

[meatburger]

Don't look anywhere outside yourself for meaning to life. Don't look to logic or moral causes or anything like that; doing that is just a lack of self-confidence that invariably precipitates depression and self-questioning. Have the confidence to assign whatever meaning you want to life. Find what you love, and make that what life means to you.

Yeah i know what you mean, but if i look inside myself and decide that my meaning comes from helping others, then i have to act outside of myself to do this. I am extraverted i suppose. I follow moral causes etc because it is a source of confidence for me. I personally think i would get depressed if i decided that my life only revolved around doing things for myself. I agree that you shouldn't look to others to find meaning to your life.

Whether life itself has any real design or ultimate purpose i just dont know. Without a supreme being talking to me i dont think i will ever know. All i know is i can make my life have meaning

Eeek. neverending argument hehe

[rockingdom]

True, but it's only when you realize that the moral or logic only has meaning because YOU give it that meaning that you have a healthy sense of purpose. That's how I see it, anyways.

Yeah, I fully agree; there's no absolute truth or single meaning in our lives. And that's the beauty of all this: we have the ability to create it for ourselves-- that is, decide how we personally feel about what we see and construct our sense of right and wrong and freely live our lives according to that. Being able to define our own concept of good & bad and living up to it, that's what gives our lives meaning. It all comes down to morality for me but then again, I'm an ENFp =]

Baby, you have some great points.

I'd like to hear some more perspectives, what is it that gives you all meaning?