INFps: can you see yourselves with an ESTp longterm?

[uninspired]

I love ESTps, I really do, but most of the ones I've met are commitment-phobes and become bored easily. It seems the only thing they are devoted to is change, whether it's moving to a new town every 2 years, getting a new "hook-up" buddy every 6 months, and so on (I'm somewhat bitter, in case you can't tell, haha).
Though as an INFp I value change in impersonal matters such as scenery, hobbies, and academics, I am deeply devoted and committed to my significant other when I'm in a romantic relationship. I don't get that feeling at all from ESTps.
So, my point is, I don't see myself in a lasting relationship with an ESTp. The ONLY possibility for this to happen, in my view, would be if the ESTp was in his late 30s or mid 40s (and thus much older than me) and finally ready to settle down. This stinks, haha.
Right now, the only types I can see myself having a worthwhile relationship with are ENFjs and INTjs. I find that as a P-type, I value J-type behaviors from others very much. What do you all think?

[sigma]

I love ESTps, I really do, but most of the ones I've met are commitment-phobes and become bored easily.

how many exactly were "commitment-phobes"?

I feel you are basing your estimation on an insufficiently large sample of ESTps. The ones I met were not "commitment-phobes".

[uninspired]

In my life, I know 5 who could be called "commitment-phobes."
Not a large sample, I realize, but not small enough for me to discount, either.

[FDG]

I have dated 2 INFps, and they were both commitment-phobes too, so I have the same conclusion you have, only from the other side of the coin, go figure!

[Gilly]

Herzy I love how you showed up completely out of the blue right after I mentioned you in that thread about SLEs

[Animal]

How old are you, uninspired? I think, of all the dual types, the EXTps/IXFps need the most time to bed-hop and rove around for a while before finally settling down. We've finally reached a point in history when marriage is no longer necessary for financial stability, and now have the luxury to take our time before committing to a binding legal/religious contract, or even a long-term relationship. Unless your child-bearing years are fast coming to a close and you want to have children, take your time. Go out and date, enjoy the experience of meeting people for the sake of meeting people, and don't give a thought to commitment. True commitment is a natural extension of your feelings for another person; even an ESTp/INFp will keep coming back to each other when the balance is right.

[Blaze]

the older estp's get the more willing they are to commit.

[redbaron]

Right now, the only types I can see myself having a worthwhile relationship with are ENFjs and INTjs. I find that as a P-type, I value J-type behaviors from others very much. What do you all think?

I don't know any ESTps irl, at least none that I can think of. When I was younger, I appreciated J-type behavior in my partners very much. In fact, I dated some Ps when quite young (19, 20, 21) and became frustrated with their inability to commit. I ended up marrying an ESFj (we've been married for 13 years now) and sometimes I really like his J-ness, sometimes it's tiresome. I myself have been on the line J/P in the past and now that I'm older, I am much more P than ever for some reason. Truth is, you can't predict how you'll be or what you'll appreciate 20 years from now. You just have to get out there and date. Eventually you'll fall in love with a person, not a type.

[UDP]

I imagine ESTp possessiveness comes into play here.

Real relationship material at first seems heavily J, that is, rational, commitment, solid, etc. But there must be something beyond that, because even J types struggle with it. There is likely a sincere balance between rational and irrational elements in both people's psyches one way or another, if they are to be a truly lasting relationship.

Right now, the only types I can see myself having a worthwhile relationship with are ENFjs and INTjs. I find that as a P-type, I value J-type behaviors from others very much. What do you all think?

Why do you say ENFj and INTj?

And, are you sure about your own type? (just a question)

[FDG]

I imagine ESTp possessiveness comes into play here.

Real relationship material at first seems heavily J, that is, rational, commitment, solid, etc. But there must be something beyond that, because even J types struggle with it. There is likely a sincere balance between rational and irrational elements in both people's psyches one way or another, if they are to be a truly lasting relationship.

The key is to distinguish "solid" from "boring"

aywany, maybe my first post was misunderstood

what happened both times was that me and INFp started dating for a while.

INFp suddely stops replying to sms-s/me asking her out. So I am pushy for a short while, and then think, whatever, do what you want. After one month INFp comes back but I don't want people that do that shit so I refuse.

[ScarlettLux]

Yes.. this very issue concerns me. Sadly, ESTps do seem kinda commitment-phobic, but I do believe in what a certain poster said (can't remember username atm) about how eventually, they do realize who they truly like especially if it is Duality with an INFp. I think it takes a while for them to appreciate what they have, and that maybe the effect of losing their SO after going around with other people teaches them a lesson..

Yeah, INFps can be like this also.. I know I have been very flighty in the past.. but I have learned! I used to not care about commitment too much either.. I wanted to date around, have fun. Even though I am still super young still, I only want a long-term relationship now because it makes me feel dead inside when I am just moving from one person to the next with no real emotional attachments or understanding. It sucks. ESTps do appreciate it when they find someone that they actually find to have an emotional connection with as well..

All in all, I just think it takes more time for IxFps/ExTps to realize their need for commitment

[redbaron]

The key is to distinguish "solid" from "boring"

Yes. Very good point.

[FDG]

The key is to distinguish "solid" from "boring"

Yes. Very good point.

ehhe. my biggest fear in relationships is to become boring to my partner, honestly that kills love in my opinion

[redbaron]

The key is to distinguish "solid" from "boring"

Yes. Very good point.

ehhe. my biggest fear in relationships is to become boring to my partner, honestly that kills love in my opinion

Well I can't imagine you boring. But then again, I'm an INFp. ha. I don't know. There is more to life than constant intrigue. Why are you worried you'll become boring to your partner? That is never something I've feared.

[FDG]

The key is to distinguish "solid" from "boring"

Yes. Very good point.

ehhe. my biggest fear in relationships is to become boring to my partner, honestly that kills love in my opinion

Well I can't imagine you boring. But then again, I'm an INFp. ha. I don't know. There is more to life than constant intrigue. Why are you worried you'll become boring to your partner? That is never something I've feared.

I don't know why but it really is a primary concern; I see so many couples going around cities that look bored, also if I were to see that my partner is somewhat bored of me I'd tell her straight away to get out the relationship if she wants, you can't live like that

diana: asked for a reason, they said that they "felt like doing it"

[redbaron]

I don't know why but it really is a primary concern; I see so many couples going around cities that look bored, also if I were to see that my partner is somewhat bored of me I'd tell her straight away to get out the relationship if she wants, you can't live like that

Okay, I think I know what you mean. I have seen couples in restaurants not talking, just sitting there, staring off into space. Yep that looks miserable. I guess my line of thinking is, I'm an interesting person. If he finds me boring then HE'S boring. Maybe that's why one of my requirements in my marriage is a certain degree of independence. I guess to cultivate my interests so that I don't become boring to myself. Honestly, becoming boring to myself would be the worst thing ever. As long as I find myself interesting, I don't expect anyone else to be bored. If they are, they can leave. Which is, I guess, basically what you said.

[Ms. Kensington]

I don't know why but it really is a primary concern

role?

[Mea]

The key is to distinguish "solid" from "boring"

Yes. Very good point.

ehhe. my biggest fear in relationships is to become boring to my partner, honestly that kills love in my opinion

Well I can't imagine you boring. But then again, I'm an INFp. ha. I don't know. There is more to life than constant intrigue. Why are you worried you'll become boring to your partner? That is never something I've feared.

I don't know why but it really is a primary concern; I see so many couples going around cities that look bored, also if I were to see that my partner is somewhat bored of me I'd tell her straight away to get out the relationship if she wants, you can't live like that

diana: asked for a reason, they said that they "felt like doing it"

Wow. That's a very good reason!
Anyway, I too can't imagine ESTps being boring.

My ESTp friend seems commitment phobic. He's never been in a serious relationship. And his past flings, he wooed them for fun. Just to know he can, and dumped them after awhile. He's not done that in awhile though. He claims he's not longer afraid of commitment and that he's looking for a rich, beautiful wife so he doesn't need to work.

[ESTP]

I can only commit if I really, really like the person. Of course, I haven't met anyone whom I really, really like with intensity, so that makes me look like a commitmophobe to most people.

Same basically...and besides, i've noticed that I preffer older men. (between 28-38) However, Im in somewhat of a "situation" as I call it with a 40 yr old. Which I honestly, would probably commit to...where as if I were to meet a 22 yr old guy (my age) I probably wouldnt give him the time of day...even if he was INFp...I just cannot take young guys seriously. I need a man. And no...I dont have daddy-issues, me and my pops have a very good relationship.

But yes, Im a severe commitment-phobe..It takes quite a bit to win me over, but somehow the ones that do ALWAYS seem to be the wrong ones....like the 40yr-INFp....Or maybe, it's just that I set myself up for this kind of situation, where I know it wont work out. Just because, i KNOW it wont, and therefore I know I won't have to commit long term.

[uninspired]

The older estps get the more willing they are to commit.

I hope so. It's just disheartening to read about the benefits of duality only to recall how your dual is inherently averse to commitment. While I've had good relations with ESTps, things have never been much more than superficial, and I find it hard to believe that duality is intended simply for occasional hellos, a few laughs, and nothing more. What good is "duality" if your dual doesn't want a relationship?

How old are you, uninspired? I think, of all the dual types, the EXTps/IXFps need the most time to bed-hop and rove around for a while before finally settling down.

I'm 22. I know I'm far too young to be thinking about these kinds of things, but I do anyway. I dwell on my future a lot because I want to be prepared for what's ahead.
And you make a very good point about how relationships at this stage in a person's life should be about exploring and learning what's best for you instead of finding your life partner. Still, I worry about romantic relationships. Perhaps being a child of a messy divorce has something to do with it.

There is more to life than constant intrigue. Why are you worried you'll become boring to your partner? That is never something I've feared.

AMEN!

Why do you say ENFj and INTj?

And, are you sure about your own type? (just a question)

ENFjs are kind, creative people whom I can talk to with the greatest ease and comfort. Our similarities give us a genuine understanding of and connection to one another.

INTjs... how can one not like INTjs? They're so delectably weird and fascinating, and quite warm despite their professed misanthropic tendencies. I tell you, UDP, you really have no idea how wonderful you and your ilk can be. I really appreciate my INTj friends.
More importantly, both types value , which is what I feel most comfortable using.
And uber, uber-importantly, both types value commitment and are always striving for improvement.

And yes, I'm certain I'm INFp.
And I've gone way overboard with the type generalizations.
*end book*

[uninspired]

The idea of NiFe resisting change confuses me somewhat. What's the point of -Ni if not to facilitate change?

Change is appropriate and needed in some situations more than in others. For example, I've changed schools 3 times because each afforded me a better opportunity than I'd had before. In politics and religion, progress is necessary to adapt to a culture that is constantly in flux. Same goes for technology.
Interpersonal relationships require constant change and adjustment as well, but instead of being seen as works in progress, many see them as endeavors that either work or don't work. I think this mentality is destructive and near-sighted, and the reason why many relationships end when they could have been saved. Mend it, don't end it, is my philosophy (stolen from the slogan to preserve social security, haha).

I think "unwilling to commit" is one of the popular phrases people use to accuse those whose priorities differ from their own. I think it is not so much about whether or not people are willing to commit, but where their commitments are.

Yeah, you're right, we didn't adequately define our concept of "commitment". In this context, I refer to commitment as devoting oneself not only to the other person, but to the relationship, imperfections and all (excluding incompatibility and other destructive factors). I feel that a lot of people get into relationships when what they truly want is a tryst or a joyride. This irks me.

The idea of NiFe resisting change confuses me somewhat.

Back to this...
accepts change, but sometimes resists it. I form strong attachments to others that are sometimes difficult to break, despite my knowledge that I must do so. Hence the gung-ho-ness about commitment.

[FDG]

AMEN!

Well probably you're less boring than me, so you don't have to worry. I know for example I'd never worry that my partner thinks I'm dumb, because I know I'm not, and if she thinks so, screw her. But in other cases, there is always a reason to be worried.

Oh, and I have stolen an INFp from an INTj once.

[UDP]

Why do you say ENFj and INTj?

And, are you sure about your own type? (just a question)

ENFjs are kind, creative people whom I can talk to with the greatest ease and comfort. Our similarities give us a genuine understanding of and connection to one another.

INTjs... how can one not like INTjs? They're so delectably weird and fascinating, and quite warm despite their professed misanthropic tendencies. I tell you, UDP, you really have no idea how wonderful you and your ilk can be. I really appreciate my INTj friends.
More importantly, both types value , which is what I feel most comfortable using.
And uber, uber-importantly, both types value commitment and are always striving for improvement.

And yes, I'm certain I'm INFp.
And I've gone way overboard with the type generalizations.
*end book*

You may have read this in profiles, but it is very true about INTjs, so I will promote some props for my ilk: if you appreciate them as friends, then it is very likely they appreciate you as friends as well. It is unlike an INTj to maintain relations with someone who is of no use to him or someone he does not derive utility from, so rest assured that you are a worthy person, and that they value you as well. For all our inability to actually judge relationships, we can tell how much effort and whether or not what we do will increase or decrease a relationship, so if we are acting in ways that you appreciate, that means we think you are important enough to care how we act towards you.

I know that is very technical sounding, but that is really how I interpret things. And the main point was, for an INTj to even spend time with someone is often a lot, and few people really understand this. So for an INTj to be decent friends with you, that means you are important to them as described above, and yes, commitment is a big part of that.

PS
+10 for appreciation of always striving for improvement.

[Animal]

I'm 22. I know I'm far too young to be thinking about these kinds of things, but I do anyway. I dwell on my future a lot because I want to be prepared for what's ahead.
And you make a very good point about how relationships at this stage in a person's life should be about exploring and learning what's best for you instead of finding your life partner. Still, I worry about romantic relationships. Perhaps being a child of a messy divorce has something to do with it.

Well, the best way to prvent a messy divorce is to not rush things and take your time, making sure that when you find somebody, it's truly someone special. To be honest, I think people worry too much about finding someone ELSE to spend their life with, they neglect focusing on their own life and becoming independent, self-sufficient, complete human beings. Incomplete people make for incomplete relationships, and the divorce rate can attest to that.

[Expat]

Oh, and I have stolen an INFp from an INTj once.

That should teach him a lesson.

[FDG]

Oh, and I have stolen an INFp from an INTj once.

That should teach him a lesson.

Well he was of the very rigid and hardass kind of, not like subterranean for example, so I didn't really feel bad

[UDP]

Kind of like me, you mean.

You were probably doing them both a favor. I would not want to be in a relationship with someone who would rather be with someone else, or more so, someone who was so easily fickle and unserious about things.

[mikemex]

INFp suddely stops replying to sms-s/me asking her out. So I am pushy for a short while, and then think, whatever, do what you want. After one month INFp comes back but I don't want people that do that shit so I refuse.

Sounds like something an ENFp would do.

[misutii]

INFp suddely stops replying to sms-s/me asking her out. So I am pushy for a short while, and then think, whatever, do what you want. After one month INFp comes back but I don't want people that do that shit so I refuse.

I think that INFps seem more commitment-phobic than we actually are.... like in your situation I think that it wasn't that the INFp was afraid of commitment but of how fast things were going (Ni - caution) , personally I'm averse to becoming dependent on one person too quickly. In terms of dating I find it's better that it be gradual, like start with seeing each other once a week, so as to make sure both parties can maintain their own lives/friends (aka security nets)

As an INFp if I felt someone was 'rushing' relations I'd avoid them for I'd make the assumption that they want to use me rather than build anything that can stand the test of time. Of course I'm not sure if this has any direct relevance to your situation, just mentioning it because I found my ESTp roomate seemed to 'rush' into relations recklessly, which hindsight proved to lead nowhere worthwhile in the long-term (unless an INFp is really unhealthy they're likely thinking long-term whether they admit it to you or not). For INFp females in particular such caution seems for the best, like if you think about it if all it takes is one month for a guy to get over a girl then for the girl it validates her fears, that he doesn't truly value her. So FDG you definitely shouldn't interpret her flightiness to be an insult directed personally towards you, anyways hoped that helps put the behaviour in perspective, INFp behaviour, in my opinion, is really A LOT more predictable than it seems.

[FDG]

INFp suddely stops replying to sms-s/me asking her out. So I am pushy for a short while, and then think, whatever, do what you want. After one month INFp comes back but I don't want people that do that shit so I refuse.

I think that INFps seem more commitment-phobic than we actually are.... like in your situation I think that it wasn't that the INFp was afraid of commitment but of how fast things were going (Ni - caution) , personally I'm averse to becoming dependent on one person too quickly. In terms of dating I find it's better that it be gradual, like start with seeing each other once a week, so as to make sure both parties can maintain their own lives/friends (aka security nets)

As an INFp if I felt someone was 'rushing' relations I'd avoid them for I'd make the assumption that they want to use me rather than build anything that can stand the test of time. Of course I'm not sure if this has any direct relevance to your situation, just mentioning it because I found my ESTp roomate seemed to 'rush' into relations recklessly, which hindsight proved to lead nowhere worthwhile in the long-term (unless an INFp is really unhealthy they're likely thinking long-term whether they admit it to you or not). For INFp females in particular such caution seems for the best, like if you think about it if all it takes is one month for a guy to get over a girl then for the girl it validates her fears, that he doesn't truly value her. So FDG you definitely shouldn't interpret her flightiness to be an insult directed personally towards you, anyways hoped that helps put the behaviour in perspective, INFp behaviour, in my opinion, is really A LOT more predictable than it seems.

It's not that I get over her, it's that I don't want to have to deal with push-pull, mostly, so it's a conscious decision. I still think the girl is great and that I would date her immediatly if only she didn't do that.

Anyway - if the girl were to just say look, I only want to see you once a week blabla...sure i'd be pissed but it's understandable. However if you just disappear without saying anything - big no-no.

Mikemex...nay, I have some ENFps female friends and this girl was definitely INFp, and pretty clearly beta

[uninspired]

Also, FDG, are you sure you're ESTp and not ENTj? Because if you're the latter, your might be putting her off.

[FDG]

Also, FDG, are you sure you're ESTp and not ENTj? Because if you're the latter, your might be putting her off.

I'm not sure really, but i never talk about the stuff you said your dad talks about, especially when i go out with girls

[misutii]

It's not that I get over her, it's that I don't want to have to deal with push-pull, mostly, so it's a conscious decision. I still think the girl is great and that I would date her immediatly if only she didn't do that.

Anyway - if the girl were to just say look, I only want to see you once a week blabla...sure i'd be pissed but it's understandable. However if you just disappear without saying anything - big no-no.

hmm would you say she's Ni-subtype? just asking cuz while I agree with you're right to be perturbed I also don't find her behaviour to be out of the ordinary (relative to my own at least lol), maybe it's even an example of a problem that Ni-Ti duality faces vs. the supposedly better Ni-Se and Fe-Ti versions... ?

[FDG]

It's not that I get over her, it's that I don't want to have to deal with push-pull, mostly, so it's a conscious decision. I still think the girl is great and that I would date her immediatly if only she didn't do that.

Anyway - if the girl were to just say look, I only want to see you once a week blabla...sure i'd be pissed but it's understandable. However if you just disappear without saying anything - big no-no.

hmm would you say she's Ni-subtype? just asking cuz while I agree with you're right to be perturbed I also don't find her behaviour to be out of the ordinary (relative to my own at least lol), maybe it's even an example of a problem that Ni-Ti duality faces vs. the supposedly better Ni-Se and Fe-Ti versions... ?

Well, let me get it straight all:

we dated for 2 months. after 1 month she was saying how she loved me, and how i was the best date she's ever had since then. during the 2nd month everything proceeded well and there were no real "problems". then she went on a pre-planned vacation, and she stopped replying to smsss. Then after one month, she asked me out. Now I wouldn't have had a problem if the relationship was casual even at first, but IF you tell me you love me and all that stuf...I get attached. And if I get attached...it hurts a lot to become disattached without any explanation.

Also thereafter she got back with her boyfriend. However our attraction was way too strong, so at her birthday we ended up uh, having sex, after everybody had gone home. But at that point everything was already compromised. Now we hear about eachother on msn from time to time: the potential for a great relationship is clear, but i am not going to play games.

[Blaze]

It's not that I get over her, it's that I don't want to have to deal with push-pull, mostly, so it's a conscious decision. I still think the girl is great and that I would date her immediatly if only she didn't do that.

Anyway - if the girl were to just say look, I only want to see you once a week blabla...sure i'd be pissed but it's understandable. However if you just disappear without saying anything - big no-no.

hmm would you say she's Ni-subtype? just asking cuz while I agree with you're right to be perturbed I also don't find her behaviour to be out of the ordinary (relative to my own at least lol), maybe it's even an example of a problem that Ni-Ti duality faces vs. the supposedly better Ni-Se and Fe-Ti versions... ?

Well, let me get it straight all:

we dated for 2 months. after 1 month she was saying how she loved me, and how i was the best date she's ever had since then. during the 2nd month everything proceeded well and there were no real "problems". then she went on a pre-planned vacation, and she stopped replying to smsss. Then after one month, she asked me out. Now I wouldn't have had a problem if the relationship was casual even at first, but IF you tell me you love me and all that stuf...I get attached. And if I get attached...it hurts a lot to become disattached without any explanation.

Also thereafter she got back with her boyfriend. However our attraction was way too strong, so at her birthday we ended up uh, having sex, after everybody had gone home. But at that point everything was already compromised. Now we hear about eachother on msn from time to time: the potential for a great relationship is clear, but i am not going to play games.

i have found the 2-3 months into a relationships there's usually drama or friction. i think she digs your ass fdg but can't extricate from the other guy. you're right to keep moving forward.

[FDG]

i think that if the relationship is good there is no friction after 2-3 months. the one in which i am right now started in april and all the friction was at the start. it can't always be like that if both parties are:
- in love
- willing to stay committed

[Blaze]

i think that if the relationship is good there is no friction after 2-3 months. the one in which i am right now started in april and all the friction was at the start. it can't always be like that if both parties are:
- in love
- willing to stay committed

could be. but i have found that it is a stage that you go through where you question what you want and ascertain who the other person is, and if you can successfully get through it, then your relationship is strengthened.

and it tends to be cyclical for irrational types, you get to other places where you disagree and the more you communicate and resolve, the stronger the relationship becomes. the more you can be who you are and realize who the other person is and what they need and successfully and responsibly communicate, the relationship starts to attain higher and higher levels of understanding and intimacy.

the 2-3 month friction is just the first time this happens.

[FDG]

Sorry ehm, but I never really question what I want. When I enter a relationship I knwo what I want, otherwise I wouldn't enter it.

[Blaze]

Sorry ehm, but I never really question what I want. When I enter a relationship I knwo what I want, otherwise I wouldn't enter it.

huh. maybe that's the problem? lol

sometimes my worst choices have resulted from what i think i want at the time!

*tries to crack a tiny wedge of openness in fdg's mind*

[FDG]

Sorry ehm, but I never really question what I want. When I enter a relationship I knwo what I want, otherwise I wouldn't enter it.

huh. maybe that's the problem? lol

sometimes my worst choices have resulted from what i think i want at the time!

*tries to crack a tiny wedge of openness in fdg's mind*

You are a woman. You can question what you want and hold the man in your fingers while doing it. I don't like to question what I want simply because, it's always clear from the start - again I don't start relationship with people "i just somehow like" but only if I really am already very much into the person.