INFps: can you see yourselves with an ESTp longterm?

[redbaron]

The SLEs I know are very committed to their long-term relationships IF they love and are IN LOVE with that person. (and heck, even when they're not, they try hard to make it work and are extremely loyal)

this thread is old. blah blah blah

[redbaron]

ANYWAY. My general view is that nothing is forever. Maybe I've always viewed relationships this way because a good deal of married people I know have divorced, including my parents. Who knows.

interesting. you know, that may actually be a pretty healthy view. I have a friend who was divorced and is now swearing off marriage--she's been living with her boyfriend for 2 or 3 years now and says that it's better that way because they make a more conscious choice to be together knowing that either of them could walk away at any time. Kind of irrational I guess, but I like it.

[ClaudiaM]

I'm probably more of a commitment-phobe than most SLE's. -_- I don't know why it creeps me out. This probably isn't type related.

Fortunately, SLE's view this as a challenge; or so it seems.

The SLEs I know are very committed to their long-term relationships IF they love and are IN LOVE with that person. (and heck, even when they're not, they try hard to make it work and are extremely loyal)

SLEs are surprisingly non-whoreish! Even if it initially seems that they will fuck anything that moves...

Yes, I agree they often are susprisingly non-whoreish. I know a couple of SLEs who, though they clearly enjoy the chase and like knowing (er, believing?) they *could* sleep with whomever they want, won't get with just anyone. These two are both late-twenties now and seem to have grown out of their youthful playa days. Mostly

When it comes to love, *real* love, they do take it very seriously.

[rat1]

INFps are really picky so never end up with anyone.. SLEs sleep with everyone but are picky at the same time, so they end up leaving them. It really isn't that different. Actually INFps will act the same way if they find themselves in a relationship they don't want to be in.. just leave without much warning. I left a girl like that, I had told her I loved her pretty freely like 2 weeks prior. Meh my emotions changed, but she was really appalled at how I could say those things to her and then change my mind so fast.

[silke]

30s is the decade when they get serious, 40s is when that playa attitude returns back

[rat1]

And take xanax and jello shots

[Aleksei]

I'm probably more of a commitment-phobe than most SLE's. -_- I don't know why it creeps me out. This probably isn't type related.

Fortunately, SLE's view this as a challenge; or so it seems.

The SLEs I know are very committed to their long-term relationships IF they love and are IN LOVE with that person. (and heck, even when they're not, they try hard to make it work and are extremely loyal)

SLEs are surprisingly non-whoreish! Even if it initially seems that they will fuck anything that moves...

SLEs are not whorish -- that's a theme more related to a gluttony and thirst for experience typical of / valuing types. SLEs can be whorish of course (Se-egos, being Si-id, are more susceptible to falling victim to it, and they may connect sexuality to domination -- to the thrill of the chase), but the general rule is no. Female Beta STs, particularly, I've found to be fairly prudish.

Likewise, commitment-phobia, to the extent that it is type-related (I actually think it fairly is), is a mark against (rather than for) valuing. Ni-egos particularly are very clingy romantic partners, being as their romantic attachment is tied to a great awesome glorious vision of they and their partner being together 4 evar and evar and evar and live happily ever after and stuff. The paranoia of the Victim romantic style is actually about insecurity of the other person not being committed, as opposed to their own commitment (related to their instincts toward long-term perspectives, as it entails a fear that it might not work out in the long term -- implying a desire for it to).

types, on the other hand, being fundamentally inclined to be open to possibilities, detest commitments of any sort -- romantic or otherwise.

[redbaron]

30s is the decade when they get serious, 40s is when that playa attitude returns back

no.

[silke]

30s is the decade when they get serious, 40s is when that playa attitude returns back

no.

then it's must have been the 2 older SLEs that I've met, they are not immune to having mid-life crises

[redbaron]

no.

then it's must have been the 2 older SLEs that I've met, they are not immune to having mid-life crises

certainly they're not immune to it! but they're not more likely than other types. In fact, I know a couple of 40+ ones who were actually cheated on by their wives, not vice versa. And now that they're divorced, they're pretty picky about who they date and not whorish in the least. Maybe promiscuity isn't type related.

[MisterNi]

My SLE has whorish tendencies... he kissed me with in two minuets of me meeting him. He wanted to sleep with me on our first date, which is a big no for me. He was a self proclaimed player & he had been seeing a lot of girls before he met me... I later found out he was married.Typical Colombian man. He says he's picky though. If he doesn't like the way a girl acts or kisses him then he'll move on fast. Apparently we had heavy chemistry.

This bothers me about him. It's one of the reasons why I can never see myself being committed to him for an extensive period of time. I've been very honest in telling him this. It's a pretty solid red flag. In the beginning I just wanted to have fun but then it started getting really deep & serious. I don't think either of us intended to fall in love. Once he developed strong feelings for me it became apparent that he wanted me & only me. He got a divorce in order to keep me. From the beginning he was the one who made it official while I was still iffy.

I still feel kind of horrible about the whole thing. He treats me like gold, but I still think about ending it everyday. History always repeats itself, and I'd rather get out now before I get burned. It's so hard, though. Every time I try to ask for a break he get's incredibly hurt & emotional. That kind of stuff kills me.

I'm sorry to hear that, that's a terrible situation for the both of you. Whatever you end up doing, do not cut him out of your life. If you end up breaking up with him be responsible about it and break it off firmly. Don't leave any ambiguity which would probably be worse for him than the actual breakup. Whatever happens, good luck!

[rat1]

My SLE has whorish tendencies... he kissed me with in two minuets of me meeting him. He wanted to sleep with me on our first date, which is a no big for me.

Ah I see

[MisterNi]

Eh, it happens. That's life, right? But I think you really should be asking yourself if you want to stay in the relationship if you really think it has no long-term potential. So it seems like you have some tough decisions to make about your own personal life, especially given how much your bf has gone through to end up with you.

And yes, being a bit more simple like an SEI or ESE would certainly unburden you quite a bit for relationship problems.

[rat1]

Man people care too much about the long term potential for relationships. You know what a long term commitment is? It's a prison sentence.

[thePirate]

SLEs are surprisingly non-whoreish! Even if it initially seems that they will fuck anything that moves...

SLEs are not whorish -- that's a theme more related to a gluttony and thirst for experience typical of / valuing types.

so it's atypical for se base types to have a thirst for experience? you have got to be kidding me; you are referring to enneagram 7s here in which sle's fall under.

[redbaron]

SLEs are not whorish -- that's a theme more related to a gluttony and thirst for experience typical of / valuing types.

so it's atypical for se base types to have a thirst for experience? you have got to be kidding me; you are referring to enneagram 7s here in which sle's fall under.

no certainly it's not atypical for SLE to have a thirst for experience. I know an SLE 7w8 who is ALL about experience. But he keeps his dick in his pants.

GEESH. There are such things as standards, people.

[Aleksei]

so it's atypical for se base types to have a thirst for experience? you have got to be kidding me; you are referring to enneagram 7s here in which sle's fall under.

SLE 7s enjoy challenges, thrills, competition, as opposed to experience for the sake of experience -- BASE jumping, beating a mountain, winning an endurance race, that kind of shit. Being masters over the elements.

[redbaron]

Man people care too much about the long term potential for relationships. You know what a long term commitment is? It's a prison sentence.

You start to care & worry about those things when marriage, kids & plans for the future are being brought up all the time by the other person...

exactly. it becomes a valid concern at some point.

[MisterNi]

Eh, it happens. That's life, right? But I think you really should be asking yourself if you want to stay in the relationship if you really think it has no long-term potential. So it seems like you have some tough decisions to make about your own personal life, especially given how much your bf has gone through to end up with you.

And yes, being a bit more simple like an SEI or ESE would certainly unburden you quite a bit for relationship problems.

This is why it's so hard. I feel incredibly selfish.

Yes, it doesn't sound easy but you're an individual and shouldn't have to stay in a dying relationship just for the sake of making it work. Again, you have some serious pondering to do, missy.

[rat1]

My experience with long term relationships = watching my parents. They have a ton of commitment, and about nothing else. WHy do they even hold on? They probably think it's for the kids or their financial security, truth is it interferes more than it helps.

[redbaron]

My experience with long term relationships = watching my parents. They have a ton of commitment, and about nothing else. WHy do they even hold on? They probably think it's for the kids or their financial security, truth is it interferes more than it helps.

this is what I don't want to model for my children.

[squark]

My experience with long term relationships = watching my parents. They have a ton of commitment, and about nothing else. WHy do they even hold on? They probably think it's for the kids or their financial security, truth is it interferes more than it helps.

this is what I don't want to model for my children.

Doesn't have to be that way. My parents have an awesome relationship, and they're not even duals or any of that garbage. But they definitely belong together and are far happier together than either would be apart.

What I think happens too much is that people just sort of fall together without any real thought, more a matter of circumstance than anything else, and then later discover that they never should have gotten together at all. Or, people try to force a relationship because it seems like it should work. But, it doesn't. I think the anecdote to all that is to find someone who really fits you, and to take your time figuring out who that might be.

I know this thread is for IEIs and SLEs, but you know, get too focused on type and you'll miss who the person really is. So, does it matter if an IEI can see themselves with AN SLE longterm, if they find the SLE (or other type) that they can see that with? I don't think it matters. And I don't think you have to know that immediately. You probably won't. There's nothing wrong with taking your time. But, of course, if you're already SURE that it won't work, no sense dragging it out either.

. . . . .Oh wait, socionics forum, I almost forgot. blah blah duality is awesoem, it conquers all! Wait for your dual and all your dreams will come true. YAY . . .

[squark]

The problem at hand I think, is that one could never be sure that one choice is better than the other. The more you know and understand the tendencies and attitudes of a person, the more you would be able to guess how they would act in the future, despite the passion of the moment. And sadly as is often the case, the IEI's prediction would come true despite how much they wish it wouldn't come true. It's just so terribly sad.

(Might not be relevant) That said. If I could have experienced it all over again, I might have liked to press on instead of letting go despite "knowing" how it would end up. It may or may not be the best choice for everybody, but we have to be selfish with our own lives and try our best to make it go where we want it to go. At least I would have been able to say that I have tried and experienced, and that I had no regrets walking the path I had even if I failed. Still, this might have been for the best.

IEI's are the ones writing the script to their own romance novel. The SLEs have no choice but to follow. They can't help it because it's you cleverly navigating their heartstrings. And they need that. They depend on you to make them feel "alive". You never know that in the end, you may actually succeed in having them play the exact role you wanted them to play all along...

Don't know if this is too much fantasy.

A little fantasy makes life that much more interesting.

If I catch what you're saying right, I like your take on things, and agree. It's like saying, even though you know the car is going to crash in the end, the ride might be worth it, and you never know if you could steer it away from that wall after all, even if right now the crash seems inevitable. Why not take the risk?

I think a lot of people on this forum (and in the world at large) are lonely and didn't see a way out until they learned about duality, and now they cling to it as if it'll solve everything immediately. I mean, it'll probably help, but if you think it's going to be effortless, you're in for a shock.

Yeah, definitely.

[silke]

If I catch what you're saying right, I like your take on things, and agree. It's like saying, even though you know the car is going to crash in the end, the ride might be worth it, and you never know if you could steer it away from that wall after all, even if right now the crash seems inevitable. Why not take the risk?

I wouldn't even compare it to a car crash. People die in car crashes. It evokes a kind of pain-filled disturbing image. When a relationship ends it's not a catastrophe and life will go on. You can't predict every downfall and every mistake and it is silly to withhold yourself from life and let it just pass you by. I know IEIs are prone to doing this but sometimes it makes me wonder about all the experiences that are lost as a result.

[squark]

If I catch what you're saying right, I like your take on things, and agree. It's like saying, even though you know the car is going to crash in the end, the ride might be worth it, and you never know if you could steer it away from that wall after all, even if right now the crash seems inevitable. Why not take the risk?

I wouldn't even compare it to a car crash. People die in car crashes. It evokes a kind of pain-filled disturbing image. When a relationship ends it's not a catastrophe and life will go on. You can't predict every downfall and every mistake and it is silly to withhold yourself from life and let it just pass you by. I know IEIs are prone to doing this but sometimes it makes me wonder about all the experiences that are lost as a result.

True.

[redbaron]

I wouldn't even compare it to a car crash. People die in car crashes. It evokes a kind of pain-filled disturbing image. When a relationship ends it's not a catastrophe and life will go on. You can't predict every downfall and every mistake and it is silly to withhold yourself from life and let it just pass you by. I know IEIs are prone to doing this but sometimes it makes me wonder about all the experiences that are lost as a result.

agreed.

[thePirate]

so it's atypical for se base types to have a thirst for experience? you have got to be kidding me; you are referring to enneagram 7s here in which sle's fall under.

SLE 7s enjoy challenges, thrills, competition, as opposed to experience for the sake of experience -- BASE jumping, beating a mountain, winning an endurance race, that kind of shit. Being masters over the elements.

Disagree, I know a bunch of SLE's who like to do things just for the experience, of which have blatantly said so before jumping into something.

Anyhow, promiscuity is not type related, but there are certain elements that point someone towards that direction, so there is an extent to which it can be correlated.

[Aleksei]

Disagree, I know a bunch of SLE's who like to do things just for the experience, of which have blatantly said so before jumping into something.

Assuming they're SLE, rather than C-ESE or C-ILE.

[MisterNi]

I finally broke it off. Probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do. I just hope I don't live to regret it because what we had was pretty amazing. I seemed to handle my emotions far better than he did. I emotionally prepared myself well & made sure to cater to his feelings. It was the most heartbreaking thing I've ever had to witness. Just as I feared, he lost it. I've never seen a grown man cry so much... it was hard to keep my composure. What makes things worse is that he won't stop calling me. I'm considering blocking his number.

I just can't get over those conflicted feelings that kept eating away at me. I can't really see a future with him. He's not 100% healed from his past. I know what he's capable of & I can't risk being with someone who will possibly walk out on me. It's better to end things right now then 10 years down the road with the possibility of kids. I'm also not emotionally or financially ready for that level of commitment (I guess that's the woes of being with an older man). I feel like I've saved myself from a lot of grief. It's kind of ironic because the reason why I broke it off is one of the same reasons why he got a divorce. There was a bleak future to be seen. I guess this is karma for you.

I've learned a lot from this relationship. Duality is amazing but the circumstances have to be right for it to work, as they do with any healthy relationship. Both people have to be open, ready & trusting. In our case it was a mixture of bad timing & my inability to trust what he may do in the future. It's sad that it had to happen this way. He treated me so well & helped me so much. I've lost my best friend.

Hope everything works out for you in the end.

[rat1]

I think your decision is retarded. Commitment develops over time. Expecting an unwavering commitment at the start is neurotic, and only happens in the most lifeless relationships.

[shakealittle]

I'm also not emotionally or financially ready for that level of commitment (I guess that's the woes of being with an older man). I feel like I've saved myself from a lot of grief. It's kind of ironic because the reason why I broke it off is one of the same reasons why he got a divorce. There was a bleak future to be seen. I guess this is karma for you.

In our case it was a mixture of bad timing & my inability to trust what he may do in the future. It's sad that it had to happen this way. He treated me so well & helped me so much. I've lost my best friend.

I think you made the right decision, in my experience, trust is either there or it isn't. You can't do much to change that feeling. When I decided to part ways with my dual it was for the same reason...fast forward to 1 year later after everything ended and he has just proposed to a woman after 6 months.

[redbaron]

awwww... starfall, I'm sorry. Only you can say if it was right or not. But I do believe that trust can be built and that just because he left his wife, doesn't mean he will leave every other woman he's with. He needs to be forgiven for his past mistakes and loved for the failed person he is (and we all fail in some ways). You're young though and you deserve a chance at being with someone without a history like that. I can understand. Still, I feel bad for him.

[NewBorn STAR]

My only union is with god.

Yeah the chastity armor is mine to be hold high !

To bad i lost my boyhood to a damned wrench, but there is always land ahead to be seen. Love is only for death to do it apart. And for us to learn that no person no matter how good is the goal. They serve only as reflections of our own nature in the bigger scheme of things. Holding on to relationship is being weak dumbling needing some caredom and love.

Its okay people Your loves and Your Fears will come and go.

[IEI]

I finally broke it off. Probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do. I just hope I don't live to regret it because what we had was pretty amazing. I seemed to handle my emotions far better than he did. I emotionally prepared myself well & made sure to cater to his feelings. It was the most heartbreaking thing I've ever had to witness. Just as I feared, he lost it. I've never seen a grown man cry so much... it was hard to keep my composure. What makes things worse is that he won't stop calling me. I'm considering blocking his number.

I just can't get over those conflicted feelings that kept eating away at me. I can't really see a future with him. He's not 100% healed from his past. I know what he's capable of & I can't risk being with someone who will possibly walk out on me. It's better to end things right now then 10 years down the road with the possibility of kids. I'm also not emotionally or financially ready for that level of commitment (I guess that's the woes of being with an older man). I feel like I've saved myself from a lot of grief. It's kind of ironic because the reason why I broke it off is one of the same reasons why he got a divorce. There was a bleak future to be seen. I guess this is karma for you.

I've learned a lot from this relationship. Duality is amazing but the circumstances have to be right for it to work, as they do with any healthy relationship. Both people have to be open, ready & trusting. In our case it was a mixture of bad timing & my inability to trust what he may do in the future. It's sad that it had to happen this way. He treated me so well & helped me so much. I've lost my best friend.

I hope you dont mind me commenting as you have posted here i hope not and its (a strangers) genuine concern. My view is you run the risk with any person you are with that they may possibly walk out on you there are no guarantees but if you find someone amazing then it must be worth the risk of what's the point? If your not ready for a commitment that's a different story.... but if its because you are scared he will leave you i think you're nuts for breaking it off. Great relationships are very hard to find is my experience.

[IEI]

That's not the only reason. I also feel like he needs to sort himself out before we jump into anything. We were moving way too fast. He hasn't had any time whatsoever to mourn his ex (whom he still loves, even though he ended it) & that adds strain to any relationship. I love him & I felt like I needed to let him go to give him space & find himself. I told him that if we're truly meant to be then we will meet again at some point in time.

It hurts like hell, but I know I'm doing the right thing.

Ok....relationships are complicated...as others have said you are the best person to judge what to do.

I split up with someone i was madly in love with years ago and it was the hardest thing i had to do. He didn't treat me very well and he was bad for me so it had to be done.