INFps: can you see yourselves with an ESTp longterm?

[uninspired]

Also, FDG, are you sure you're ESTp and not ENTj? Because if you're the latter, your might be putting her off.

[FDG]

Also, FDG, are you sure you're ESTp and not ENTj? Because if you're the latter, your might be putting her off.

I'm not sure really, but i never talk about the stuff you said your dad talks about, especially when i go out with girls

[misutii]

It's not that I get over her, it's that I don't want to have to deal with push-pull, mostly, so it's a conscious decision. I still think the girl is great and that I would date her immediatly if only she didn't do that.

Anyway - if the girl were to just say look, I only want to see you once a week blabla...sure i'd be pissed but it's understandable. However if you just disappear without saying anything - big no-no.

hmm would you say she's Ni-subtype? just asking cuz while I agree with you're right to be perturbed I also don't find her behaviour to be out of the ordinary (relative to my own at least lol), maybe it's even an example of a problem that Ni-Ti duality faces vs. the supposedly better Ni-Se and Fe-Ti versions... ?

[FDG]

It's not that I get over her, it's that I don't want to have to deal with push-pull, mostly, so it's a conscious decision. I still think the girl is great and that I would date her immediatly if only she didn't do that.

Anyway - if the girl were to just say look, I only want to see you once a week blabla...sure i'd be pissed but it's understandable. However if you just disappear without saying anything - big no-no.

hmm would you say she's Ni-subtype? just asking cuz while I agree with you're right to be perturbed I also don't find her behaviour to be out of the ordinary (relative to my own at least lol), maybe it's even an example of a problem that Ni-Ti duality faces vs. the supposedly better Ni-Se and Fe-Ti versions... ?

Well, let me get it straight all:

we dated for 2 months. after 1 month she was saying how she loved me, and how i was the best date she's ever had since then. during the 2nd month everything proceeded well and there were no real "problems". then she went on a pre-planned vacation, and she stopped replying to smsss. Then after one month, she asked me out. Now I wouldn't have had a problem if the relationship was casual even at first, but IF you tell me you love me and all that stuf...I get attached. And if I get attached...it hurts a lot to become disattached without any explanation.

Also thereafter she got back with her boyfriend. However our attraction was way too strong, so at her birthday we ended up uh, having sex, after everybody had gone home. But at that point everything was already compromised. Now we hear about eachother on msn from time to time: the potential for a great relationship is clear, but i am not going to play games.

[Blaze]

It's not that I get over her, it's that I don't want to have to deal with push-pull, mostly, so it's a conscious decision. I still think the girl is great and that I would date her immediatly if only she didn't do that.

Anyway - if the girl were to just say look, I only want to see you once a week blabla...sure i'd be pissed but it's understandable. However if you just disappear without saying anything - big no-no.

hmm would you say she's Ni-subtype? just asking cuz while I agree with you're right to be perturbed I also don't find her behaviour to be out of the ordinary (relative to my own at least lol), maybe it's even an example of a problem that Ni-Ti duality faces vs. the supposedly better Ni-Se and Fe-Ti versions... ?

Well, let me get it straight all:

we dated for 2 months. after 1 month she was saying how she loved me, and how i was the best date she's ever had since then. during the 2nd month everything proceeded well and there were no real "problems". then she went on a pre-planned vacation, and she stopped replying to smsss. Then after one month, she asked me out. Now I wouldn't have had a problem if the relationship was casual even at first, but IF you tell me you love me and all that stuf...I get attached. And if I get attached...it hurts a lot to become disattached without any explanation.

Also thereafter she got back with her boyfriend. However our attraction was way too strong, so at her birthday we ended up uh, having sex, after everybody had gone home. But at that point everything was already compromised. Now we hear about eachother on msn from time to time: the potential for a great relationship is clear, but i am not going to play games.

i have found the 2-3 months into a relationships there's usually drama or friction. i think she digs your ass fdg but can't extricate from the other guy. you're right to keep moving forward.

[thePirate]

theres hope, maybe due to naivete, but I honestly have no clue.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

thePirate,you're talking to dead people.

[thePirate]

lol their still around, plus I want updates

your ILI now? dangit.

[silverchris9]

ESTps can be very loyal. Depends on what their principles/aims are. If being morally whatever is one of their goals, they can be the most principled folks around.

However, besides that, my suggestion: have sex with a few SLEs, date around a bunch of people, while maintaining an intense but somewhat sexually charged friendship (maybe you did it once or twice, maybe you're each other's booty call, etc.) with one particular SLE (named Joanne) who you finally settle down with and marry when you're both in your mid-to-late thirties, saying, "come on, Joanne, we're both gonna get married some time, and I might as well marry you so I don't have to cheat on some poor other girl with you. Whaddya say?"

Then Joanne will say, "What are you talkin' about? Me? Married? You're kidding!" Then she'll give you a little shove, but you have to make sure that you subtly show her that you're upset by her rejection of you. Then you sort of distance yourself from her for a few weeks (or scenes), long enough for her to realize that she really needs you in her life, and then at a mutual friends' wedding (which you were going to go to together, because you're each other's go-to date for weddings), she'll see you and you'll kiss, and in some dramatic way, you'll confess that you're made for each other and go ahead and get engaged (maybe some sort of thing where she proposes to you, male-female role reversal, etc., etc.). Then you ride off into the sunset together after totally upstaging your mutual friend with your much more dramatic and exciting (and sexier, can't forget sexier) love story ('cause IEIs and SLEs are the most exciting and sexiest types).

[discojoe]

infps: can you see yourselves with an ESTp longterm?

That's like asking if they can see themselves eating shit longterm.

[crazedrat]

I actually prefer that we don't formally commit at all, we just grow together until one day we look at eachother and realize we can't leave one another. It's like the commitment just forms on its own. No reason to try to pretend you have more love than you actually do.. formal commitment just seems like a fantasy people have about their relationships, but doesn't reflect the real status of the relationship. Anyway, you can always remain friends.

@pirate: you actually just have to rip through it in the end, but you've got to slowly learn that the only solution is to rip through it.

[redbaron]

I actually prefer that we don't formally commit at all, we just grow together until one day we look at eachother and realize we can't leave one another. It's like the commitment just forms on its own. No reason to try to pretend you have more love than you actually do.. formal commitment just seems like a fantasy people have about their relationships, but doesn't reflect the real status of the relationship. Anyway, you can always remain friends.

I love love love this philosophy! this is how it always should be.

[silverchris9]

I actually prefer that we don't formally commit at all, we just grow together until one day we look at eachother and realize we can't leave one another. It's like the commitment just forms on its own. No reason to try to pretend you have more love than you actually do.. formal commitment just seems like a fantasy people have about their relationships, but doesn't reflect the real status of the relationship. Anyway, you can always remain friends.

That's what I said about Joanne. Anyway, I agree.

I can totally see myself with an ESTp longterm. Why would you want someone who would be boring and predictable? I'd much rather be with someone I can't anticipate.

[JWC3]

idk If I could see myself with anyone long term... and that's kind of depressing.

"We are all alone, born alone, die alone, and — in spite of True Romance magazines — we shall all someday look back on our lives and see that, in spite of our company, we were alone the whole way. I do not say lonely — at least, not all the time — but essentially, and finally, alone. This is what makes your self-respect so important, and I don’t see how you can respect yourself if you must look in the hearts and minds of others for your happiness."
— Hunter S. Thompson (The Proud Highway: Saga of a Desperate Southern Gentleman, 1955-1967)

I've pretty much always had this kind of ideology.

Individualistic much?

I've always been more collectivist than what's, strictly speaking, normal for how individualistic America is.

[JWC3]

No, I'm a collectivist too. I'm just able to be comfortable & secure with myself.

I'm not entirely sure having a self concept that operates independently from other people is something worth the trade off of loneliness. Though I understand that you are most likely still happy, despite carrying a mindset that would most likely do the reverse for me so *shrugs* To each their own.

[silverchris9]

"We are all alone, born alone, die alone, and — in spite of True Romance magazines — we shall all someday look back on our lives and see that, in spite of our company, we were alone the whole way. I do not say lonely — at least, not all the time — but essentially, and finally, alone. This is what makes your self-respect so important, and I don’t see how you can respect yourself if you must look in the hearts and minds of others for your happiness."
— Hunter S. Thompson (The Proud Highway: Saga of a Desperate Southern Gentleman, 1955-1967)

That's just giving up. Even if you never get another person to merge with you, or even if, like Walt Whitman, you have to touch yourself, your second self, you don't stop longing for another person to cut into your solitude. You have to give up on the solitude. You have to keep longing and striving for something beyond this horrific isolation we have within ourselves. Surely we can have one person, out of this whole terrible crowd, that we can trust with our innermost beings? It takes a special kind of intelligence to track another person through all their twists and changes and match them as they wind into life's curves, but it is possible, and it is powerful to believe in that possibility, if only because it dams up a lot of potential energy which can come flooding out at will.

[discojoe]

That's just giving up. Even if you never get another person to merge with you, or even if, like Walt Whitman, you have to touch yourself, your second self, you don't stop longing for another person to cut into your solitude. You have to give up on the solitude. You have to keep longing and striving for something beyond this horrific isolation we have within ourselves. Surely we can have one person, out of this whole terrible crowd, that we can trust with our innermost beings? It takes a special kind of intelligence to track another person through all their twists and changes and match them as they wind into life's curves, but it is possible, and it is powerful to believe in that possibility, if only because it dams up a lot of potential energy which can come flooding out at will.

Well said, gayboy.

[silverchris9]

When that kind of longing happens you just find people to fulfill that need.

I guess I just think more like a cat. I also have a distaste for overly needy people.

I disdain most things I can't have. But there are some desires that I like to keep near the surface.

But yeah, I also am turned off by overly needy people, and I try to keep my personal needy-ness very private and individual. I've always been a cat person too. I hate dogs. Too needy, want to much attention, yuck. Cats are nice and will leave you alone if you want them to. But then at the same time, they inhabit your space, you know?

Well said, gayboy.

Thanks, dumbass.

[Ezra]

idk If I could see myself with anyone long term... and that's kind of depressing.

"We are all alone, born alone, die alone, and — in spite of True Romance magazines — we shall all someday look back on our lives and see that, in spite of our company, we were alone the whole way. I do not say lonely — at least, not all the time — but essentially, and finally, alone. This is what makes your self-respect so important, and I don’t see how you can respect yourself if you must look in the hearts and minds of others for your happiness."
— Hunter S. Thompson (The Proud Highway: Saga of a Desperate Southern Gentleman, 1955-1967)

I've pretty much always had this kind of ideology.

Very standard IEI thing. My girl thinks exactly the same way. She once quoted to me from the novel Fight Club: "It's easy to cry when you realize everyone you love will reject you or die".

Personally I find it extremely depressing. I can't believe you lot even like thinking like that. And it doesn't exactly make me want to commit to someone I feel like is going to fuck off after a while.

[discojoe]

Very standard IEI thing. My girl thinks exactly the same way. She once quoted to me from the novel Fight Club: "It's easy to cry when you realize everyone you love will reject you or die".

Personally I find it extremely depressing. I can't believe you lot even like thinking like that. And it doesn't exactly make me want to commit to someone I feel like is going to fuck off after a while.

There's a special tool for when INFps start talking nonsense.

[redbaron]

The SLEs I know are very committed to their long-term relationships IF they love and are IN LOVE with that person. (and heck, even when they're not, they try hard to make it work and are extremely loyal)

this thread is old. blah blah blah

[redbaron]

ANYWAY. My general view is that nothing is forever. Maybe I've always viewed relationships this way because a good deal of married people I know have divorced, including my parents. Who knows.

interesting. you know, that may actually be a pretty healthy view. I have a friend who was divorced and is now swearing off marriage--she's been living with her boyfriend for 2 or 3 years now and says that it's better that way because they make a more conscious choice to be together knowing that either of them could walk away at any time. Kind of irrational I guess, but I like it.

[ClaudiaM]

I'm probably more of a commitment-phobe than most SLE's. -_- I don't know why it creeps me out. This probably isn't type related.

Fortunately, SLE's view this as a challenge; or so it seems.

The SLEs I know are very committed to their long-term relationships IF they love and are IN LOVE with that person. (and heck, even when they're not, they try hard to make it work and are extremely loyal)

SLEs are surprisingly non-whoreish! Even if it initially seems that they will fuck anything that moves...

Yes, I agree they often are susprisingly non-whoreish. I know a couple of SLEs who, though they clearly enjoy the chase and like knowing (er, believing?) they *could* sleep with whomever they want, won't get with just anyone. These two are both late-twenties now and seem to have grown out of their youthful playa days. Mostly

When it comes to love, *real* love, they do take it very seriously.

[rat1]

INFps are really picky so never end up with anyone.. SLEs sleep with everyone but are picky at the same time, so they end up leaving them. It really isn't that different. Actually INFps will act the same way if they find themselves in a relationship they don't want to be in.. just leave without much warning. I left a girl like that, I had told her I loved her pretty freely like 2 weeks prior. Meh my emotions changed, but she was really appalled at how I could say those things to her and then change my mind so fast.

[silke]

30s is the decade when they get serious, 40s is when that playa attitude returns back

[redbaron]

30s is the decade when they get serious, 40s is when that playa attitude returns back

no.

[rat1]

And take xanax and jello shots

[Aleksei]

I'm probably more of a commitment-phobe than most SLE's. -_- I don't know why it creeps me out. This probably isn't type related.

Fortunately, SLE's view this as a challenge; or so it seems.

The SLEs I know are very committed to their long-term relationships IF they love and are IN LOVE with that person. (and heck, even when they're not, they try hard to make it work and are extremely loyal)

SLEs are surprisingly non-whoreish! Even if it initially seems that they will fuck anything that moves...

SLEs are not whorish -- that's a theme more related to a gluttony and thirst for experience typical of / valuing types. SLEs can be whorish of course (Se-egos, being Si-id, are more susceptible to falling victim to it, and they may connect sexuality to domination -- to the thrill of the chase), but the general rule is no. Female Beta STs, particularly, I've found to be fairly prudish.

Likewise, commitment-phobia, to the extent that it is type-related (I actually think it fairly is), is a mark against (rather than for) valuing. Ni-egos particularly are very clingy romantic partners, being as their romantic attachment is tied to a great awesome glorious vision of they and their partner being together 4 evar and evar and evar and live happily ever after and stuff. The paranoia of the Victim romantic style is actually about insecurity of the other person not being committed, as opposed to their own commitment (related to their instincts toward long-term perspectives, as it entails a fear that it might not work out in the long term -- implying a desire for it to).

types, on the other hand, being fundamentally inclined to be open to possibilities, detest commitments of any sort -- romantic or otherwise.

[thePirate]

SLEs are surprisingly non-whoreish! Even if it initially seems that they will fuck anything that moves...

SLEs are not whorish -- that's a theme more related to a gluttony and thirst for experience typical of / valuing types.

so it's atypical for se base types to have a thirst for experience? you have got to be kidding me; you are referring to enneagram 7s here in which sle's fall under.

[redbaron]

SLEs are not whorish -- that's a theme more related to a gluttony and thirst for experience typical of / valuing types.

so it's atypical for se base types to have a thirst for experience? you have got to be kidding me; you are referring to enneagram 7s here in which sle's fall under.

no certainly it's not atypical for SLE to have a thirst for experience. I know an SLE 7w8 who is ALL about experience. But he keeps his dick in his pants.

GEESH. There are such things as standards, people.

[Aleksei]

so it's atypical for se base types to have a thirst for experience? you have got to be kidding me; you are referring to enneagram 7s here in which sle's fall under.

SLE 7s enjoy challenges, thrills, competition, as opposed to experience for the sake of experience -- BASE jumping, beating a mountain, winning an endurance race, that kind of shit. Being masters over the elements.

[thePirate]

so it's atypical for se base types to have a thirst for experience? you have got to be kidding me; you are referring to enneagram 7s here in which sle's fall under.

SLE 7s enjoy challenges, thrills, competition, as opposed to experience for the sake of experience -- BASE jumping, beating a mountain, winning an endurance race, that kind of shit. Being masters over the elements.

Disagree, I know a bunch of SLE's who like to do things just for the experience, of which have blatantly said so before jumping into something.

Anyhow, promiscuity is not type related, but there are certain elements that point someone towards that direction, so there is an extent to which it can be correlated.

[MisterNi]

I finally broke it off. Probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do. I just hope I don't live to regret it because what we had was pretty amazing. I seemed to handle my emotions far better than he did. I emotionally prepared myself well & made sure to cater to his feelings. It was the most heartbreaking thing I've ever had to witness. Just as I feared, he lost it. I've never seen a grown man cry so much... it was hard to keep my composure. What makes things worse is that he won't stop calling me. I'm considering blocking his number.

I just can't get over those conflicted feelings that kept eating away at me. I can't really see a future with him. He's not 100% healed from his past. I know what he's capable of & I can't risk being with someone who will possibly walk out on me. It's better to end things right now then 10 years down the road with the possibility of kids. I'm also not emotionally or financially ready for that level of commitment (I guess that's the woes of being with an older man). I feel like I've saved myself from a lot of grief. It's kind of ironic because the reason why I broke it off is one of the same reasons why he got a divorce. There was a bleak future to be seen. I guess this is karma for you.

I've learned a lot from this relationship. Duality is amazing but the circumstances have to be right for it to work, as they do with any healthy relationship. Both people have to be open, ready & trusting. In our case it was a mixture of bad timing & my inability to trust what he may do in the future. It's sad that it had to happen this way. He treated me so well & helped me so much. I've lost my best friend.

Hope everything works out for you in the end.

[rat1]

I think your decision is retarded. Commitment develops over time. Expecting an unwavering commitment at the start is neurotic, and only happens in the most lifeless relationships.

[shakealittle]

I'm also not emotionally or financially ready for that level of commitment (I guess that's the woes of being with an older man). I feel like I've saved myself from a lot of grief. It's kind of ironic because the reason why I broke it off is one of the same reasons why he got a divorce. There was a bleak future to be seen. I guess this is karma for you.

In our case it was a mixture of bad timing & my inability to trust what he may do in the future. It's sad that it had to happen this way. He treated me so well & helped me so much. I've lost my best friend.

I think you made the right decision, in my experience, trust is either there or it isn't. You can't do much to change that feeling. When I decided to part ways with my dual it was for the same reason...fast forward to 1 year later after everything ended and he has just proposed to a woman after 6 months.

[IEI]

I finally broke it off. Probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do. I just hope I don't live to regret it because what we had was pretty amazing. I seemed to handle my emotions far better than he did. I emotionally prepared myself well & made sure to cater to his feelings. It was the most heartbreaking thing I've ever had to witness. Just as I feared, he lost it. I've never seen a grown man cry so much... it was hard to keep my composure. What makes things worse is that he won't stop calling me. I'm considering blocking his number.

I just can't get over those conflicted feelings that kept eating away at me. I can't really see a future with him. He's not 100% healed from his past. I know what he's capable of & I can't risk being with someone who will possibly walk out on me. It's better to end things right now then 10 years down the road with the possibility of kids. I'm also not emotionally or financially ready for that level of commitment (I guess that's the woes of being with an older man). I feel like I've saved myself from a lot of grief. It's kind of ironic because the reason why I broke it off is one of the same reasons why he got a divorce. There was a bleak future to be seen. I guess this is karma for you.

I've learned a lot from this relationship. Duality is amazing but the circumstances have to be right for it to work, as they do with any healthy relationship. Both people have to be open, ready & trusting. In our case it was a mixture of bad timing & my inability to trust what he may do in the future. It's sad that it had to happen this way. He treated me so well & helped me so much. I've lost my best friend.

I hope you dont mind me commenting as you have posted here i hope not and its (a strangers) genuine concern. My view is you run the risk with any person you are with that they may possibly walk out on you there are no guarantees but if you find someone amazing then it must be worth the risk of what's the point? If your not ready for a commitment that's a different story.... but if its because you are scared he will leave you i think you're nuts for breaking it off. Great relationships are very hard to find is my experience.

[IEI]

That's not the only reason. I also feel like he needs to sort himself out before we jump into anything. We were moving way too fast. He hasn't had any time whatsoever to mourn his ex (whom he still loves, even though he ended it) & that adds strain to any relationship. I love him & I felt like I needed to let him go to give him space & find himself. I told him that if we're truly meant to be then we will meet again at some point in time.

It hurts like hell, but I know I'm doing the right thing.

Ok....relationships are complicated...as others have said you are the best person to judge what to do.

I split up with someone i was madly in love with years ago and it was the hardest thing i had to do. He didn't treat me very well and he was bad for me so it had to be done.

[redbaron]

awwww... starfall, I'm sorry. Only you can say if it was right or not. But I do believe that trust can be built and that just because he left his wife, doesn't mean he will leave every other woman he's with. He needs to be forgiven for his past mistakes and loved for the failed person he is (and we all fail in some ways). You're young though and you deserve a chance at being with someone without a history like that. I can understand. Still, I feel bad for him.

[NewBorn STAR]

My only union is with god.

Yeah the chastity armor is mine to be hold high !

To bad i lost my boyhood to a damned wrench, but there is always land ahead to be seen. Love is only for death to do it apart. And for us to learn that no person no matter how good is the goal. They serve only as reflections of our own nature in the bigger scheme of things. Holding on to relationship is being weak dumbling needing some caredom and love.

Its okay people Your loves and Your Fears will come and go.

[FDG]

i think that if the relationship is good there is no friction after 2-3 months. the one in which i am right now started in april and all the friction was at the start. it can't always be like that if both parties are:
- in love
- willing to stay committed