accounting is a truly terrible suggestion
Counseling wouldn't be my first choice, but if it was something to do with my experiences, I might be more confident about it (for example, drug abuse.. except I've never convinced anyone to stop yet actually.. But it could be different if I was in a facility where people come to me first).
I'm not good at other things mentioned here. Silverchris is a true lyricist. Not to be too literal, but I've never really cared as much for lyrics as I have for music (mostly guitar playing). This goes for poetry as well, where my interest is casual. Even when it comes to listening to music, lyrics are the last thing that grab me. It's often that I find depth of feeling within melody itself. Words don't even come to the forefront sometimes. I just want to jam. I don't know what this means Socionics-wise..
While I like reading and writing a bit, it kind of shows that I'm not strongly focused on words.
Breathing.
Hm. perhaps I should expand it to communication in general, through whatever means you're more naturally attracted to. I mean, while I associate music more with Fe than with Ni (insofar as music is about a changing implicit dynamic rather than this sort of... reading/interpretive thing), I can totally see how music as a form of sign-reading could satisfy the IEI thing for communication and interpretation (which I think is a major strength/interest of Ni). Does that jive with your thoughts/experience?
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
It's hard to say. I used to aspire to performing a little more (even dabbled with theater too), but music is mostly for my own therapy, so it's hard to associate with Fe exactly.
Interestingly, after I wrote that, I ran across this in the Stratievskaya description.. I relate to this. Maybe it's just a combination Ni/Fe/Si.
3. Introverted sensing
The stronger the sensory sensations, received by this type, the brighter and more lively are felt the emotions associated with these sensations. For this very reason they are able to achieve great success in fields where their entire “emotional palette” finds its brightest use – music, theater, poetry and so forth. For example, IEI musicians frequently perceive the beauty of sound precisely through its expressiveness: a beautiful sound is emotionally saturated and rich in overtones, whereas a plain sound is inexpressive and “empty”. The same also relates to the perception of colour combinations: a beautiful combination is one that gives rise to emotional meaning or symbolism. (For example, designer- Esenin spent a long time unsuccessfully selecting colour combinations for his project, then, suddenly, “in the mood” he drew a picture, and transferred the colour from this figure into his work.)
In any case, I have no idea what I want to do when I grow up.. and unfortunately, I'm pretty grown up.
I could see being, like, a Philosopher Plumber. Wandering house to house, setting up piping, stopping leaks, inspecting pipes... And when I'm elbow deep in someone's toilet, fishing for their car keys that their kid tried to flush, they may, for the briefest second, look into my eyes and catch a glimpse of infinity, the sum total of human knowledge burning into their mind. And then I'll say something incredibly profound and wise and tender, followed by a long string of profanities when I lay the tip of a finger on those god damn keys and they just slip away again.
-Evil overlord
-Artist
-Stalker with a Crush
-Hobo
-Basement dweller joker who thinks he's a genius.
What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
Whatever they want to be.
What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
It could be Se in isolation, but it depends on what my objective is. I wouldn't want anything out of it other than a laugh and maybe to set some shit straight. Simply fighting is not Se.
Second, if you want to necessarily be duplicitous and manipulative, rather than actualizing and externalizing your thoughts and passions, then gtfo out of beta. Be it positive or negative, it isn't for conniving, weasel-ish pieces of shit.
edit: Ideally, that is
Yes, I do realize that Fe consists of externalizing thoughts and passions -- it's also by extension responsible for skills in arousing people's passions and manipulating/maneuvering their moods into a desired outcome. Blocked with Ni/Se (especially when Fe is the producing function) leads to a desire to channel that skill into longer-term goals; which in essence leads to manipulation. Or rather, to a specific type of emotional manipulation. Gammas are just as conniving in a different way; and Judicious types are capable of it; though being less ambitious they're less likely to use it to control-related ends.
What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
Having a goal isn't necessarily manipulating. Nor is appealing to other people's passions.. simply seeing where people are coming from doesn't mean you don't share the same thoughts.
I've aroused people, for example, to walk out with me on a job and quit.. they might have previously been inactive about it, but it doesn't mean I tapped into something deep or wasn't there. They just needed a situation that clearly spurred it on and provoked them. All I had to do was point out that staying would be a dead end.
Maybe that should be my career skill, ironically. Getting people to quit jobs.
You'd be surprised how suggestible people really are.
What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
But all of this is really taking away from the crux of the matter:
IEIs are AWESOME!
What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
For anyone who's willing to share, it'd be appreciated. I specify "ACTUALLY" as I know it is common for IEIs to have distant future aspirations, but I am curious to get a variety of examples of how the bills are actually paid.
(To give you an idea of where I'm coming from: I figure these examples might yield some "day job" ideas that I too, as an IEI, may find to be relatively painless, so I can best support myself financially in my artistic pursuit.)
Thanks!
I think it's pretty common for IEIs to have a little more difficulty finding a good day job. Entry level jobs don't necessarily make much direct use of Ni. However, if you get a job in a field where you'd like to go further, that's a good start. For example, I know someone I think is IEI who wanted to go into some sort of counseling. She was a psych major and got a job administering surveys, which eventually lead to more counseling-type stuff.
A lot depends on your talents. If you're artistic, there are a lot of jobs in graphic arts (I know people I think are IEI who are in graphic arts). They may be more just formatting stuff at first, but it's a start. If you're good with Photoshop and know some client-side web programming, there are a lot of jobs there. If you're good at writing, there are sites devoted to journalism jobs. You can also start out as a copy editor (I know people I think are IEI who are writers or copy editors). If you're really great at an instrument, then you can teach kids how to play it, do accompanying/weddings, or even audition for local orchestras (or play in a band or something). (I also know some IEI professional musicians.)
So...It is possible. Your specific talents/skills and long-term goals are probably key to narrowing down onto something.
Filatova on IEI "Job Options"
The best job for IEIs is one that doesn't concern academics. Some examples of good job choices are musicians, authors, tour guides, journalists, talk show hosts, etc. Sometimes IEIs can be found doing well in the field of mathematics. However, keep in mind that the worst jobs for this psychological type concern business and administration.
ILI (FINAL ANSWER)
Filatova demonstrating why crack should not be smoked. An -leading type with creative and -HA shouldn't have a job that entails ranting endlessly about philosophy? What the fuck?
I mean I'll concede that hard-science-related academics are bad for IEIs, but humanities and social science-based academics are perfectly suited for IEI.
All IEIs I know personally are slacker students mooching off their parents (or in the case of one, the State of Kuwait).
What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
Avoiding jobs in business and administration is good advice for IEIs, not that they have to be told that. Saying "avoid academics" and then suggesting that some do well in mathematics seems a little contradictory. The difficult thing is that most jobs require some academics or administration to get into them. One doesn't find job ads that say "Talk show hosts wanted! No experience needed." Usually, entry-level jobs involve some sort of detail work, and it's probably best to take it as something "good for you" because it's a life skill to do that stuff and realize it's not really that bad.
However, that's a pretty good list overall. "Tour guide" is an interesting suggestion because IEIs may be able to talk themselves into such a job based on their personality, charm, and interests, and that would avoid the sort of "desk work" found in a typical job.
Here's the same Filatova description from a translator rather than from her book:
Its weird that the translated one would include more detail. Yes by academics she means hard sciences. I take it she doesn't consider the humanities to be academic, and neither do I.Professional possibilities
The most favorable work for IEI can be found in the realm of humanitarian activity. This can be work in music, literature, art studies, the printed press, journalism, conducting television and radio transmissions and interviews. Sometimes representatives of this type are found successfully working in the field of mathematics. However, it is necessary to remember that an IEI’s behaviour is contrasted by any industrial and economic activity.
ILI (FINAL ANSWER)
My Fe-INFP sister is currently a phlebotomist at a large hospital, and has more work ethic than I do. She began her first job in high school and has worked ever since, while I never cared much about working or earning money.
What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
It's not really type related as far as introverts go, besides us tending to be low energy. But my dad is Ni-ENFJ and he has a ton more work ethic than either of us, it's not just EJ temperament, but it seems common of their drive.
IJ doesn't mean more "proactive," and IP and Te-PoLR isn't "lazy," though in MBTI it comes across that way a lot more because descriptions of Js make them superficially out as having more of an important and together life or something... as though I honestly think my correlates to organization and scheduled decisiveness, yeah right.
Last edited by 717495; 07-27-2011 at 04:09 AM.
IP descriptions sound decidedly lazy.
What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
I'd say it's more in the feel of the temperament than the actual lifestyle. It's important to understand that they're two separate things, temperament and work ethic or attention to action and participation.
from memory:
IEI-Ni, female, psychologist. Runs her own practice. She has tried various small business ideas with her husband until getting a psychology degree in her mid-30s. now she runs her own psychology groups. The income isn't great but her schedule is flexible which is important for IEI-Nis - plus she makes lots of social contacts through her work.
IEI-Ni, female, librarian - not that happy with where she is wrt to her work.
IEI-Fe, male, did his undergrad and master's degrees in physics/math. Taught physics at a small liberal arts college for a number of years until traveling abroad to teach math/physics/english in Kazakhstan at some international center where he made a lot of money on this job. Got married, bought a house in Russia, had 3 kids.
IEI-Fe, male - got an undergrad degree in Philosophy. In his mid-30s traveled to Spain to do an MBA in 1 year accelerated program. Finished with his degree and started looking for work, applying to some HR positions. 1 year later still jobless relying on his girlfriend to support him.
IEI-Fe, male - learned Arabic and French and worked as a translator primarily for military. Saved up enough money to retire early in his 50s and now pursues his dream of writing while doing some handywork and repair jobs on the side.
IEI-Fe, male, military - never revealed what it is exactly that he does. I only know that he gets frequently deployed for many months on end and he mentioned something about submarines, possibly works on one.
IEI-Fe, male - professor of chemistry, leads a research group of about 15-20 people.
IEI-Ni, male, IT
IEI-Fe, male, director of NICU at a hospital
IEI-Ni, female - got a degree in math, works for an insurance company. Pretty happy with her career.
I'm gonna make an educated guess that HR work also attracts IEIs. Fe men like IEIs and ESE seem to do particularly well in job associated with the military, perhaps because it provides them with the much needed structure and some specialties pay very well.
Last edited by silke; 10-21-2018 at 07:09 AM.
My best friend is an IEI. I obviously cannot know for sure what she's gonna be doing by the time she grows up since she's only 19 now, but she applied for an art university this year and got in and is planning on becoming an artist.
She has had several summer jobs, including chuggering for greenpeace (), telemarketing and helping disabled/elderly people with their household chores.
Here's what all the IEIs I know do:
F Veterinarian
F Veterinarian Technician
1M 2F Architect (3)
F Interior Designer
M Aerospace Engineer
F Fashion Designer
F Nutritionist
F Environmental Conservation Agent
M Airplane Mechanic
M Psychologist
M High School Teacher
F Employee Trainer for Insurance Company
These are people who are family, who I knew when I was young, or that I've met professionally. My network doesn't include that many lawyers, business / manufacturing ppl, finance ppl...I'm in more of a creative sector. So be careful about inferring what "IEIs are suited for" based on my circle of acquaintances.
IEE
I think you say that because you dont understand what academic philosophy is like. Vague, an INFp and long gone member of this site, once told me she liked philosophy, but dropped out of a philosophy course in college because it was too technical, they got into dissecting concepts with mathematical graphs and such; which wasnt for her.
Basically INFps are good with philosophical concepts which dont involve too strict of a system, which I beleive is what academic philosophy is about, INFps are more "mystical"(for lack of a better word), then technical minded.
Join my Enneagram Discord: https://discord.gg/ND4jCAcs
My opinion is that it varies with the person. There seem to be "strong Ti" IEIs and "weak Ti" IEIs. The "strong Ti" IEIs may cause some people to think that they're LII, but enough about IEI fits them to type them as such. I know both kinds. Socially, they can appear pretty similar.
Part of it, also, is that people can have all kinds of abilities independent of type. People tend think that math or academics = Ti, but that's not necessarily the case.
What I have found, though, is that IEIs who are aware of Jung are more likely to avoid what they think of as "T" subjects on principle, whereas if they don't know anything about typology, they may be less inclined to restrict themselves.
Yeah my economics classes were chock-full of IEIs, although tbh I did't really understand why the hell they choose to orient their future towards such realms. They all seemed rather unhappy and emotionally restrained; it also seemed like their type of world outlook was very distant from what was being taught. Let me explain further: oftentimes the concepts of optimization, allocation of resources, process streamlining, game theory, behavioral economics/finance were an automatic perfect fit for my own set of skills, to the point that my real-life behavior was naturally aligned with those "theories", much before having ever heard of them. IEIs seemed out of place from this POV, they did learn the subject well, but my impression was that it didn't impact their world view and they didn't truly make it "theirs". So, if I were a college advisor / tutor, I would never tell a IEI to go down this route.
The smartest Beta NFs almost always chose the most heavily mathematical courses, yet from my POV they seemed to be enthralled by the mathematics itself yet completely unconcerned with the real applicability and impact of such theories. I know it may sound stereotypical, but that was my impression.
Anyway, the happiest IEI I know works as a graphic artist / webmaster and sings rap on the side. He's quite successful at both, I actually often attend his performances. Another one works as an architect and seems quite happy, too - even though the salary is relatively low. The least happy IEI I know is a normalizing subtype female that works in the audit section of a big bank - that's too even for a dominant like me.
Last edited by FDG; 07-27-2011 at 03:26 PM.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Eheh but those theories aren't supposed to be normative, only descriptive! At least, that's how I usually approached the issue - "this is how the world might work, then do what you want with it".I actually did try to incorporate these theories into my own worldview at one time, but grew to hate it over time. It was too impersonal. Work work work, earning money and achieving stability are all that these Te valuers seem to be preoccupied with. There's much more to life than this. What is wrong with these people? What happened to aspirations and ideals? What's with useless fears, sticking to status quos, and living robotic lives? It just kills.
Besides, what you wrote (that I personally think it's true, even if I'm a valuer myself) is exactly why I don't think IEIs are fit for banking, insurance, etc. you'll end up working with people that are terribly drone-like, eventually getting depressed.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I agree with the first part, not really with the second - it's not how it "should" work, otherwise it would be a normative theory Just one of the many possible universes, and we happen to be living it.
Yeah, that makes sense, even though I still don't think it's a good choice. Probably IEI can even become engrossed in the financial advisory and conseuling part of the job, yet I still believe that an environment full of dominant types might be unhealthy for them.Being uncertain Ni Ips, IEIs don't exactly choose the more "suitable" degrees for themselves. They sort of go with the flow, their choice mostly influenced by family members. And because whatever degree you choose largely determines your career (due possessing relevant skill sets) you sort of have to do it even if you don't like it. Unless you get lucky.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
One I know is an accountant (lol) since 3 years, ranting that it's a boring mundane job and she wants to go all artsy. I doubt she would do that, she has billion of ideas and visions for herself but doesn't have enough motivation to actually pursue any of them.