Examples of INTp Fe PoLR remarks

[Phantom Shadow]

My Fe PoLR manifest itself when people say, or imply that I'm not compassionate, empathic, and/or sympathetic to other when in fact I am. I just don't put it as main priority in my decision making process there needs to be balance between ethos and logos. If someone were to ask why I do not donate money to starving kids in Africa? I would say, "Millions of dollars are donated to starving Africans a year in spite of this there has been no significant changes. If people there are so desperate for their survival why don't they move somewhere else, or band together fix the cause of the problem, or take the resources they need. By giving them what they've not earned all have taught them is dependency on others kindness. Not mention that their starvation is merely a symptom of a greater affliction that has yet to be addressed."

"If you seek to aid everyone that suffers in the galaxy, you will only weaken yourself… and weaken them. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won on their own, that yield the strongest rewards. You stole that struggle from them, cheapened it. If you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles. And when they triumph, they will be even stronger for the victory."
―Kreia

[Zero11]

I just don't put it as main priority in my decision making process there needs to be balance between ethos and logos. If someone were to ask why I do not donate money to starving kids in Africa?

Say would you give birth to 10 or more kids if know you couldn´t feed them? Of course not!

[nanashi]

My Fe PoLR manifest itself when people say, or imply that I'm not compassionate, empathic, and/or sympathetic to other when in fact I am. I just don't put it as main priority in my decision making process there needs to be balance between ethos and logos. If someone were to ask why I do not donate money to starving kids in Africa? I would say, "Millions of dollars are donated to starving Africans a year in spite of this there has been no significant changes. If people there are so desperate for their survival why don't they move somewhere else, or band together fix the cause of the problem, or take the resources they need. By giving them what they've not earned all have taught them is dependency on others kindness. Not mention that their starvation is merely a symptom of a greater affliction that has yet to be addressed."

"If you seek to aid everyone that suffers in the galaxy, you will only weaken yourself… and weaken them. It is the internal struggles, when fought and won on their own, that yield the strongest rewards. You stole that struggle from them, cheapened it. If you care for others, then dispense with pity and sacrifice and recognize the value in letting them fight their own battles. And when they triumph, they will be even stronger for the victory."
―Kreia

It is patently true that aid isn't useless. Actually, there are quite a lot of examples of people being so impoverished and near death that humanitarian aid, versus developmental aid WAS crucial for them. While I, too, champion independence and respect for individuals, that doesn't change the fact that some humans are currently on death's door and that WE are their resources in what are to us small ways but mean their continued existence to them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_aid versus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_aid
http://us.macmillan.com/thehistoryan...BronwenEverill


if they are correct about corruption in leaders, I'd like to stress that this is not due to something inherent about Africans but perhaps IS influenced by social dynamics in place: http://www.how-matters.org/2011/04/2...n-colonialism/

[Phantom Shadow]

It is patently true that aid isn't useless. Actually, there are quite a lot of examples of people being so impoverished and near death that humanitarian aid, versus developmental aid WAS crucial for them. While I, too, champion independence and respect for individuals, that doesn't change the fact that some humans are currently on death's door and that WE are their resources in what are to us small ways but mean their continued existence to them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_aid versus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_aid
http://us.macmillan.com/thehistoryan...BronwenEverill


if they are correct about corruption in leaders, I'd like to stress that this is not due to something inherent about Africans but perhaps IS influenced by social dynamics in place: http://www.how-matters.org/2011/04/2...n-colonialism/

Why did you do such a thing? Such kindnesses will mean nothing, his path is set. Giving him what he has not earned is like pouring sand into his hands. :::: And would that be a kindness? What if by surviving another day, he brings a greater darkness upon another? :::: The Force binds all things. The slightest push, the smallest touch, sends echoes throughout life. :::: Even an act of kindness may have more severe repercussions than you know or can see. :::: By giving him something he has not earned, perhaps all you have helped him become is a target. Seeing another elevated often brings the eyes of others who suffer. And perhaps in the end, all you have wrought is more pain. :::: And that is my lesson to you. Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clenched fist.
-Kotor 2 Kreia

"The pathway to hell is paved with good intentions."

"No good deed goes unpunished; No evil deed goes unrewarded."

[wacey]

Why did you do such a thing? Such kindnesses will mean nothing, his path is set. Giving him what he has not earned is like pouring sand into his hands. :::: And would that be a kindness? What if by surviving another day, he brings a greater darkness upon another? :::: The Force binds all things. The slightest push, the smallest touch, sends echoes throughout life. :::: Even an act of kindness may have more severe repercussions than you know or can see. :::: By giving him something he has not earned, perhaps all you have helped him become is a target. Seeing another elevated often brings the eyes of others who suffer. And perhaps in the end, all you have wrought is more pain. :::: And that is my lesson to you. Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clenched fist.
-Kotor 2 Kreia


"The pathway to hell is paved with good intentions."

"No good deed goes unpunished; No evil deed goes unrewarded."

It must be easy of you to have such an opinion, especially since you most likely grew up and now live in an affluent first world country with basic human rights, shelter, food, safety. I would love for you to reread your post when your own life suddenly takes a turn for the worst

[Phantom Shadow]

I also get very frustrated and irritated when someone presumes to tell me what feelings or facial expressions I should be expressing. (Usually an Fe ego type) If someone exerts to much emotional pressure I slip away when no one's looking, or death stare them down then storm off, or explode into a hyper-rational condescending analysis of their views and character until decimated every shred of dignity, pride and self worth depending on who I'm talking to and the circumstances. Hopefully this give everyone an idea what it like having Fe PoLR at least from an ILI's perspective.

[Zero11]

@Phantom Shadow

I don´t get what you are saying. Emotional pressure? What do you mean with emotional pressure? And do you seriously believe you could conquer an ethical type with logic?

[nanashi]

I also get very frustrated and irritated when someone presumes to tell me what feelings or facial expressions I should be expressing. (Usually an Fe ego type) If someone exerts to much emotional pressure I slip away when no one's looking, or death stare them down then storm off, or explode into a hyper-rational condescending analysis of their views and character until decimated every shred of dignity, pride and self worth depending on who I'm talking to and the circumstances. Hopefully this give everyone an idea what it like having Fe PoLR at least from an ILI's perspective.

I'd say this ILI response has a decidedly Sp-Sx flavoring to it, since I see this in my ILI sp-sx friend but not in my own behavior.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I'd say this ILI response has a decidedly Sp-Sx flavoring to it, since I see this in my ILI sp-sx friend but not in my own behavior.

Why Sp-Sx? Is there a reason beside what you stated above?

[nanashi]

Why Sp-Sx? Is there a reason beside what you stated above?

Phantom Shadow's sp-sx under his avatar, my understanding of the differences between sp-sx and other types reacting socially, and my sp-sx irl ILI friend.

[The Patternist]

I also get very frustrated and irritated when someone presumes to tell me what feelings or facial expressions I should be expressing. (Usually an Fe ego type) If someone exerts to much emotional pressure I slip away when no one's looking, or death stare them down then storm off, or explode into a hyper-rational condescending analysis of their views and character until decimated every shred of dignity, pride and self worth depending on who I'm talking to and the circumstances. Hopefully this give everyone an idea what it like having Fe PoLR at least from an ILI's perspective.

I do greatly favor your response over the others due to my perception of its accuracy. I suppose it may be beneficial to add that I am also ILI.

[Phantom Shadow]

@Phantom Shadow

I don´t get what you are saying. Emotional pressure? What do you mean with emotional pressure? And do you seriously believe you could conquer an ethical type with logic?

My Definition:
Emotional Pressure is when someone expects or wants you to feel or express an emotion(s) your not feeling. They use guilt, shame, and self righteous rage to try change your ethical position; emotional and/or ethical intimidation to convert you to the ""Greater Good""
Essentially Fi versus Fe

[Cuddly McFluffles]

My Definition:
Emotional Pressure is when someone expects or wants you to feel or express an emotion(s) your not feeling. They use guilt, shame, and self righteous rage to try change your ethical position; emotional and/or ethical intimidation to convert you to the ""Greater Good""
Essentially Fi versus Fe

You believe that cannot attempt to shame or guilt someone into changing, nor use emotional or ethical intimidation to achieve a certain result? Or did I misread what you are trying to say here?

[Aramas]

My Definition:
Emotional Pressure is when someone expects or wants you to feel or express an emotion(s) your not feeling. They use guilt, shame, and self righteous rage to try change your ethical position; emotional and/or ethical intimidation to convert you to the ""Greater Good""
Essentially Fi versus Fe

This isn't how I see Fe types try to enforce Fe most often. In the vast majority of cases, they try to somehow infect you with their emotions through their own emotional expressiveness. In a way, it's something that overrides a person's internal feelings, especially if they are Fe PoLR types. They often try to act in a simpering sort of way to get you to feel what they feel. The best way to describe Fe from my perspective is "emotional contagion." ILIs and their lookalikes don't deal well with situations in which someone tries to get them to feel a certain emotion. Usually it's not by someone saying directly, "You should feel such and such a way," but by acting out their own emotions in a way that directly affects the feelings of others around them. This is how demonstrative Fi works. They demonstrate their own feelings in order to get others to feel them. Fi demonstrative working in support of Fe lead. It makes so much simple sense that it's hard to see how people miss it.

Another term I'd use for it is "invasive feeling."

There are going to be moralizers of every type. Moralizing has absolutely nothing to do with Socionics.

In a way, this is also why people can't tell what's going on with Fi types and their feelings. They don't really try to affect someone else's emotional experience, so it's impossible for Fe types to know what they are feeling. In a sense, the only way to know how someone is feeling is for that person to affect your emotional experience. Fi types don't really do that so much, so you aren't going to sense anything coming from them. What you do in this case is to watch their behavior and then gauge their emotions indirectly through those unrelated expressions.

[wacey]

This isn't how I see Fe types try to enforce Fe most often. In the vast majority of cases, they try to somehow infect you with their emotions through their own emotional expressiveness. In a way, it's something that overrides a person's internal feelings, especially if they are Fe PoLR types. They often try to act in a simpering sort of way to get you to feel what they feel. The best way to describe Fe from my perspective is "emotional contagion." ILIs and their lookalikes don't deal well with situations in which someone tries to get them to feel a certain emotion. Usually it's not by someone saying directly, "You should feel such and such a way," but by acting out their own emotions in a way that directly affects the feelings of others around them. This is how demonstrative Fi works. They demonstrate their own feelings in order to get others to feel them. Fi demonstrative working in support of Fe lead. It makes so much simple sense that it's hard to see how people miss it.

Another term I'd use for it is "invasive feeling."

There are going to be moralizers of every type. Moralizing has absolutely nothing to do with Socionics.

In a way, this is also why people can't tell what's going on with Fi types and their feelings. They don't really try to affect someone else's emotional experience, so it's impossible for Fe types to know what they are feeling. In a sense, the only way to know how someone is feeling is for that person to affect your emotional experience. Fi types don't really do that so much, so you aren't going to sense anything coming from them. What you do in this case is to watch their behavior and then gauge their emotions indirectly through those unrelated expressions.

You know its not even about feeling what the Fe type wants you to feel. I don't even think they want you to feel anything, not truly. They just want to see you feeling something through your expressions. Something I've learned with alpha types is that you can really easily fake Fe for them. As long as you are pretending to be happy for them (and as long as they can't access your true sentiments via Si), then you are good to go.

Awesome! Wow! Very cool!

You don't need to FEEL happy, you just need to SHOW that you feel happy with a smile. Or you show saddness with a frown. Even looking visually confused when confused, or singing a song when in a good mood. I know it seems insincere, but it works for them. I know this is going to sound harsh, but alpha types are stupid about this sort of thing, with the exception being a clever ILE. You really can fake Fe around them and they would never discern the difference between your expressed emotions and your real emotions (ignored Fi).

However, this does not work on betas and if it did then only the LSI (as they are most vulnerable to manipulative Fe, which is partly why ESE is their semi dual). Betas Fe is closely linked with authenticity and so they are scanning you for the truth. Not much you express can be faked on them.

What this means for Fe polr from what I've noticed is that although they may not pretend Fe, when they are expressive it usual shows a real authenticity of spirit.

So with the ESE conflictor when they go "oh come on, its funny, why aren't your laughing??" You know to just laugh. Fake it.

[The Exception]

You don't need to FEEL happy, you just need to SHOW that you feel happy with a smile. Or you show saddness with a frown. Even looking visually confused when confused, or singing a song when in a good mood. I know it seems insincere, but it works for them. I know this is going to sound harsh, but alpha types are stupid about this sort of thing, with the exception being a clever ILE. You really can fake Fe around them and they would never discern the difference between your expressed emotions and your real emotions (ignored Fi).

You're right, it was harsh and greatly overgeneralized and better left unsaid. Alphas are not that stupid, we can tell. Even the LIIs with their 1-D Fe.

[wacey]

You're right, it was harsh and greatly overgeneralized and better left unsaid. Alphas are not that stupid, we can tell. Even the LIIs with their 1-D Fe.

Ohh boy "better left unsaid" no truer words could come from an alpha.

Look, my words were not meant to be insulting. If it was possible could you look past the sting and maybe see the ring of truth in what I am saying?

[wacey]

I suppose this has been your experience but as an ESE I know when people are not sincere. It does happen and I ignore it or try to figure out what that person wants from me. With an SLE friend, I saw it coming months in advance when they were using a lot of Fe on me, that they would ask for a big favor and they did...I just didn't know what it would be yet. I was really disappointed and declined.

Not surprising you could see what he wanted. Not least of all because his Fe is one dimensional. It was probably blatantly obvious to you if he was showing some kind of ethical appeal. Besides you are actuated by Ne so you are tuned into external detials that notices differences in people's behaviour. Connecting the dots. ESE are ignoring Se as well I think people forget that. They can read into people's intentions in the static behaviour just as well as any Se type, they just choose not to most times. They often ignore peoples Se motivations, or look over manipulating intentions.

Recently a SF type I know crossed the border with me and he said "oh they are just being friendly when he told you, you make me very curious". No buds, he said that because he wants to know if I'm coming to the country to work and to figure out why I am acting so strangley defensive. In other words, Se information.

Si does come in handy as I have a "log" of past interactions by which I can gauge their behavior and character. Its not just what people say but their body language, movements of their facial muscles, how they treat others in comparison, etc etc.

That's why I said unless they are perceiving through Si. You can notice things about people and take note of variations in Si components. Sometimes its crazy accurate and other times its emphatically wrong. (Your idea of comfort is not other people's)

In my experience its those with Fe HA who could be easily fooled or try to fool, I have seen it with the SLE.

That is producing Fe its meant to be used creatively by SEI and IEI, meaning it looks more "put on" and intermitten. Which works well for SLE because they are wanting more insight into life and not necessarily more expressive interaction and communication. As extroverts they fill those roles greatly themselves. Besides, shhhh, don't be revealing all the trade secrets.

You can't "fake" any function to someone who leads in that function. It will always come off as insincere.

Bet your supervisor would disagree. At any rate, EIE and ESE fake it all the time.

Also you might think you can "fake" them, because most Fe leading types will either ignore fake behavior or play along for the sake of harmony of the group. This does not mean anyone was successful in "faking".

Good point, Fi types do the same thing, by using faked access points in relationships to maintain harmony. "I hate you but you are blank relation to me so we will get along for the sake of harmony"

[niffer]

Not surprising you could see what he wanted. Not least of all because his Fe is one dimensional.

SLE Fe is 2D. Maybe you meant Fi?

ESE are ignoring Se as well I think people forget that. They can read into people's intentions in the static behaviour just as well as any Se type, they just choose not to most times. They often ignore peoples Se motivations, or look over manipulating intentions.

ESEs don't ignore Se; they have it as their demonstrative. What they ignore is Fi, which may be what's the actual root of the latter part of your statement. But yeah, Si creative is also a little bit own-world-forming/reality-detaching, inherently (re: other parts of your post on Si which I left out from quoting in this reply).

Bet your supervisor would disagree. At any rate, EIE and ESE fake it all the time.

It's a little bit odd to describe someone who is a leading type with a certain IE as "faking it all the time". Sure you can fake or overdo your lead IE too even if you're strong at it already. But just because Fe can be interpreted as inherently "fake" or ad-hoc doesn't mean that's what's actually happening here with how they're employing the IE. I just wanted to make these distinctions more clear.

Good point, Fi types do the same thing, by using faked access points in relationships to maintain harmony. "I hate you but you are blank relation to me so we will get along for the sake of harmony"

I agree. In my experience all ethical types can do this. Fi ego types can drag on unhealthy relationships a lot longer than Fe egos ones because of this, IME. Whereas Fe ego types are more likely to candidly openly express themselves and adjust the relationship according to their sentiments in real time, which of course is more beneficial for types like my own.

[wacey]

When I was younger I would get "intuition" about a person and a situation and actively IGNORE it. Usually my first intuition was exactly correct to what eventually happened but I would not listen. My EIE mother would lecture me about listening to this intuition. As recently as a few years ago my EII friend just looked at me and said: "why do you ignore your intuition?". I try not to dismiss these intuitive feelings now. But if I didn't see concrete evidence in the past I would ignore these feelings as I could not prove them. That said I am older now with stronger Ne, and am getting better. Socionics is very helpful as well.

Cool man, glad to hear it.

[Rebelondeck]

......... That said I am older now with stronger Ne, and am getting better.......

Intuition is not linked to N but synthesis and connecting-the-dots are; however, S-types can have superb intuition. With age, all types will get use to operating in the zone where S and N overlap. ESE will sometimes operate like LII but they operate in the zone so their N-range doesn't really expand; they just get better at using what they've got.


a.k.a. I/O

[Phantom Shadow]

This isn't how I see Fe types try to enforce Fe most often. In the vast majority of cases, they try to somehow infect you with their emotions through their own emotional expressiveness. In a way, it's something that overrides a person's internal feelings, especially if they are Fe PoLR types. They often try to act in a simpering sort of way to get you to feel what they feel. The best way to describe Fe from my perspective is "emotional contagion." ILIs and their lookalikes don't deal well with situations in which someone tries to get them to feel a certain emotion. Usually it's not by someone saying directly, "You should feel such and such a way," but by acting out their own emotions in a way that directly affects the feelings of others around them. This is how demonstrative Fi works. They demonstrate their own feelings in order to get others to feel them. Fi demonstrative working in support of Fe lead. It makes so much simple sense that it's hard to see how people miss it.

Another term I'd use for it is "invasive feeling."

There are going to be moralizers of every type. Moralizing has absolutely nothing to do with Socionics.

In a way, this is also why people can't tell what's going on with Fi types and their feelings. They don't really try to affect someone else's emotional experience, so it's impossible for Fe types to know what they are feeling. In a sense, the only way to know how someone is feeling is for that person to affect your emotional experience. Fi types don't really do that so much, so you aren't going to sense anything coming from them. What you do in this case is to watch their behavior and then gauge their emotions indirectly through those unrelated expressions.

What I was trying to communicated is that Fe users (mostly dominant and creative) have constant need guage the emotional atmosphere. When they are uncertain or can't determine the emotional state of a person. They try to force a reaction out us instead of simply asking us or respecting the fact that we don't wish to share it with them. Acting as if they are entitled to an emotional connection with us. When we tell them how we them how we feel they doubt or question are responses because there a lack emotional ques or energy behind it.
When they continue to press us it lead to frustration or an outburst that was not representative of are state of mind prior to there prying.

Its like having your Facebook account set to private and someone want to get to know you. So they send a friend quest and either get declined or get no response. So they decide to try hack your account. The hacking attempt fails the account owner is notified and changes there password then block and ignores the hacker. All they had to was accept that the account was on private and move on or to try again later.

[Aramas]

What I was trying to communicated is that Fe users (mostly dominant and creative) have constant need guage the emotional atmosphere. When they are uncertain or can't determine the emotional state of a person. They try to force a reaction out us instead of simply asking us or respecting the fact that we don't wish to share it with them. Acting as if they are entitled to an emotional connection with us. When we tell them how we them how we feel they doubt or question are responses because there a lack emotional ques or energy behind it.
When they continue to press us it lead to frustration or an outburst that was not representative of are state of mind prior to there prying.

Its like having your Facebook account set to private and someone want to get to know you. So they send a friend quest and either get declined or get no response. So they decide to try hack your account. The hacking attempt fails the account owner is notified and changes there password then block and ignores the hacker. All they had to was accept that the account was on private and move on or to try again later.

I can agree with you on this. It's something I've noticed myself. They really do feel ENTITLED to some kind of connection and expression. And they also feel entitled to punish you if you don't give that to them. 100% true.

Also, something you said really hit home. They do doubt the veracity or sincerity of what we say because it's missing something they depend on. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to communicate a personal problem to an Fe type, and they simply ignore it or don't take me seriously. Or they act like I shouldn't have a problem. I didn't think of this as possibly relating to type before, but I can definitely see the possibility.

[End]

I can agree with you on this. It's something I've noticed myself. They really do feel ENTITLED to some kind of connection and expression. And they also feel entitled to punish you if you don't give that to them. 100% true.

Also, something you said really hit home. They do doubt the veracity or sincerity of what we say because it's missing something they depend on. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to communicate a personal problem to an Fe type, and they simply ignore it or don't take me seriously. Or they act like I shouldn't have a problem. I didn't think of this as possibly relating to type before, but I can definitely see the possibility.

The IEI's seem to get it though. What the PoLR lacks in expression they gain in sincerity. A person can "say" anything. That, ultimately, means exactly jack shit. What do they DO in the end... that's the real measure of a person. Words are cheap, actions are what everyone ought ultimately be judged on. I guess that's why the call it the "Kindred" relationship in this case. You do get one another, not as much as you'd like but just enough to understand the seemingly alien thought processes.

It's probably the sharing of the same primary function we have to thank for that. Both gaze into the crystal ball in this case, they just focus it on different points within the visions. I focus it on that weird flash of color I think I saw in hopes it leads to a deeper understanding of what's going on (in a scientific sense), the IEI wants to make sure they heard that random bit of gossip right for similar reasons (a deeper understanding of the social situation unfolding). Either way, we just had the same experience but focused on different aspects of it. Hence why they call it a "kindred" relationship. Same experience, different filters...

[Slade]

What I was trying to communicated is that Fe users (mostly dominant and creative) have constant need guage the emotional atmosphere. When they are uncertain or can't determine the emotional state of a person. They try to force a reaction out us instead of simply asking us or respecting the fact that we don't wish to share it with them. Acting as if they are entitled to an emotional connection with us..

I can agree with you on this. It's something I've noticed myself. They really do feel ENTITLED to some kind of connection and expression. And they also feel entitled to punish you if you don't give that to them. 100% true.

This is interesting, and I would like some concrete examples of this if it's possible. Being 1D Fe types, I have found that XLI's are generally unaware of how they are feeling in terms of emotion, and it is a place that is vulnerable for them so even if they are actually feeling a certain kind of way it won't be uncommon for them to deny it, not realize it, or not want to engage with that emotion. I dont believe their emotional assessments of themselves to be reliable in times of stress.

Now, this idea of Fe types being entitled to forcing an emotional connection and expression, what does that mean? I dont know what it looks like, and I am curious as to how that compares with types such as XEE's who have Fe demonstrative. Also, other than the examples, which is the main focus of this post, I am also curious if this extends towards all Fe valuing types regardless of Enneagram. Is it a an essential property of Fe to force emotional interaction and connectivity?

[Bertrand]

This is interesting, and I would like some concrete examples of this if it's possible. Being 1D Fe types, I have found that XLI's are generally unaware of how they are feeling in terms of emotion, and it is a place that is vulnerable for them so even if they are actually feeling a certain kind of way it won't be uncommon for them to deny it, not realize it, or not want to engage with that emotion. I dont believe their emotional assessments of themselves to be reliable in times of stress.

Now, this idea of Fe types being entitled to forcing an emotional connection and expression, what does that mean? I dont know what it looks like, and I am curious as to how that compares with types such as XEE's who have Fe demonstrative. Also, other than the examples, which is the main focus of this post, I am also curious if this extends towards all Fe valuing types regardless of Enneagram. Is it a an essential property of Fe to force emotional interaction and connectivity?

I don't feel like its an essential property but I do think its one that shows up more often than not (in Fe types). In fact I'd say its a pretty big milestone in terms of self understanding/enlightenment/health, etc that they recognize this in themselves and control it. I think its just a kind of cognitive bias that since they're viewing the world in terms of objective ethics and making the effort to do so (by this I mean maximizing positive Fe vibes--a precondition to this is "putting it out there" it feels "shady" to the Fe type if you don't, like you're creeping, etc), so should everyone else and if they don't they're wrong. Its the same hurdle Fi types have in understanding that Fe "fakeness" is really just others genuinely trying to do the right thing, and should be appreciated as such (at least inasmuch as it is not creating real problems)

[Phantom Shadow]

I KNOW that any and all conclusions adopted by someone out of necessity or convenience will ring hollow in meaning and value if they lack the knowledge, wisdom, and experience to comprehend the answer. The solution is meaningless if you do not understand the process in which it was derived from and how it connects to the bigger picture.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

@Phantom Shadow Do you plan to address my question?

[Phantom Shadow]

Phantom Shadow Do you plan to address my question?

I did

I KNOW that any and all conclusions adopted by someone out of necessity or convenience will ring hollow in meaning and value if they lack the knowledge, wisdom, and experience to comprehend the answer. The solution is meaningless if you do not understand the process in which it was derived from and how it connects to the bigger picture.

Its not a question of can you do it, its a question of should you do it. And what are the consequences and repercussions of those choices? Is it best way to resolve the situation?

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I did

It did not appear to actually address my question in any way (and still does not), so I assumed you meant it for someone else.

Its not a question of can you do it, its a question of should you do it. And what are the consequences and repercussions of those choices? Is it best way to resolve the situation?

Nor does this.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

You didn't answer my question.

he will just pray 2 his father 2 4give u

[Eldanen]

It is patently true that aid isn't useless. Actually, there are quite a lot of examples of people being so impoverished and near death that humanitarian aid, versus developmental aid WAS crucial for them. While I, too, champion independence and respect for individuals, that doesn't change the fact that some humans are currently on death's door and that WE are their resources in what are to us small ways but mean their continued existence to them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_aid versus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_aid
http://us.macmillan.com/thehistoryan...BronwenEverill


if they are correct about corruption in leaders, I'd like to stress that this is not due to something inherent about Africans but perhaps IS influenced by social dynamics in place: http://www.how-matters.org/2011/04/2...n-colonialism/

How would you answer the claim that by aiding the survival of people in a starvation situation due to environmental locale by feeding them actually makes the problem worse unless you can implement a way for them to feed themselves? Because those people, should they survive, are going to have kids. And then we have to feed them too. And their kids. And so on.

[Phantom Shadow]

It must be easy of you to have such an opinion, especially since you most likely grew up and now live in an affluent first world country with basic human rights, shelter, food, safety. I would love for you to reread your post when your own life suddenly takes a turn for the worst

That's a rather ironic, hypocritical, and paradoxical thing of you to say. Your implying that I would not be able to hold such beliefs if I were in a similar situation, due to the fact that I may have been spoiled by the luxuries, and the kindnesses of modern society. Yet here you are offering that very same thing to them. It is only through the contrast of experiencing conflicts, pain, suffering, and strife that one learns to appreciate the gifts of life. Why do wish to rob them of this?

[Phantom Shadow]

That's a rather ironic, hypocritical, and paradoxical thing of you say. Your implying that I would not be able to hold such beliefs if were in a similar situation, due to the fact that I may have been spoiled by the luxuries, and the kindnesses of modern society. Yet here you are offering that very same thing to them. It is only through the contrast of experiencing conflicts, pain, suffering, and strife that one learns to appreciate the gifts of life. Why do wish to rob them of this?

"Spare the rod and spoil the child"

The rod; war, famine, pestilence and death

The child; humanity

[wacey]

I was just winding you up bud.

[chriscorey]

If I lack something.... Why would I put myself in a position where I would need it?

[felafel]

try something like murder, but without even being aware of it happening.

[chriscorey]

try something like murder, but without even being aware of it happening.

Got it. A psychopath or a narcissist trait, if it's basically said without knowing what will happen next.

[chriscorey]

I'm not trying to be rude. I'm saying that it suggests that you may have brain damage and are incapable of learning ...

[Whoobie77]

And you're kind of like the love child of Satan and Sauron.

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