Barack Obama

[jughead]

I'll agree that Obama seems rather IJ and mad predictable. I mean EII vs IEI are quasi-identical so its not hard to get them mixed up. He DOES show aristocratic Fi though in his bullshit gleaming vision of the past but how is this much different from Reagan's shining city on a hill? and I'm always for aristocratic Ti/Se but he never expresses it, so it's either repressed for his political message like any good politician but it seems like it would leak out some if he really was IEI. He does seem boring and stable so it points to IJ. Obamas speeches move lame old people with revisionistic glorious versions of the past to tears, and people having tears of bush gone and the first black president.
It seems like everyone WANTED him to be IEI but I'm not sure thats possible and "what you see is what you get". His books are dry and boring and a bunch of bullshit, it reads exactly like his campaign website.

[Singu]

Well Obama is sometimes criticized for flip-flopping and trying to appease to everyone. That doesn't seem very predictable to me. It's even incompatible with the IJness, because apparently they only stick to one issue before moving onto the next one. Flip-flopping is the height of Irrationality, and it would drive any J types crazy.

[Nonsense]

It amazed me when I listened to some interviews with Barack Obama with how alike he and myself spoke. He speaks every word and sentence with the exact tone, pace and pitch as I myself do. Easily I could predict his next word or two and the tones they would take.
So what am I?
I am either a quite extroverted EII or a quite introverted IEE. For years I have thought that I am EII but lately have realized that the IEE descriptions may fit me a little better now that I am maturing and getting over some shyness.

[jughead]

"Well Obama is sometimes criticized for flip-flopping and trying to appease to everyone. That doesn't seem very predictable to me. It's even incompatible with the IJness, because apparently they only stick to one issue before moving onto the next one. Flip-flopping is the height of Irrationality, and it would drive any J types crazy. "

Fine, fine then Obama is IEI, lesser chance IEE. He's a good politician but no SEE like Johnson. Obama plays the obvious Ni card every time and gleans it over with some campaign writing bs.

John Kerry is more IEE right?

Most of the books by these people still have campaign messages attached and are at least partially ghost written and edited. They are not personal journals Marista.

[Gilly]

Well Obama is sometimes criticized for flip-flopping and trying to appease to everyone.

Actually I have noticed that IEIs are exactly opposite of this; they can be indecisive in taking action on something, but they tend to be even dogmatically rigid in their beliefs of good and bad, right and wrong.

That doesn't seem very predictable to me.

Really? It does to me.

It's even incompatible with the IJness, because apparently they only stick to one issue before moving onto the next one. Flip-flopping is the height of Irrationality, and it would drive any J types crazy.

No, it's the height of Se PoLR.

[Beautiful sky]

The height of Se PoLR may seem, in Obama's case, to be flip-flopping and not focusing but I believe that Ti without an efficient use of Te can also look choppy because if you create many systems to address a concern and can't combine and efficientize your systems then you can look all over the place, like you are not concentrating on one system at a time; Se polr manifests in unorganized, consumed, and distraction with organization of a speach, but only when the PoLR is extremely influenced or stressed by external sources. You will see, here, from my own post, that I am fine and no hint of PoLR...but there was a hint before when I thought that another member was another type (that's when I make a post and delete it in a repetitive pattern). That's when Ti speaks in choppiness saying "we have tried this, we will try that, let's do this and let's do it this way and that way" (Ti primary's can be very distracted spending 5 minutes on this system and jumping to emphasize the next system all the while not taking care of any one thing with good method and throughness.

[Gilly]

Right, Ne PoLRs go changing their mind left and right. People who refuse to change their mind make GREAT populists (which, don't fucking kid yourself, Obama is) in a country as diverse and, in and of itself, indecisive as the United States, where popular opinion is grossly divided and elections are won typically on the weight of just a few percent.

But then, they value Fe so I suppose they want to make everyone happy.

[jughead]

Gilly you are making the most sense but I don't neccesarily think you are right.
Let's place Obama in Tom from The boondock's shoe's. Could Obama slap a bitch?
Also again do you what do you think of the comparison between Obamas rhetoric and Reagans about the glorious past and vision of America? You chop one up to aristocratic Fi and the other to Ni I suppose but its hard to tell whats BS campaign propaganda, (and I think both are, but reagans was more true to form by not mentioning the bullshit that America still was in slavery and religious bigotry of its own, instead of Obama insisting theirs some time of mister rogers shit going on that makes america great). What a steaming pile of dogshit that people eat up on Obamas rhetoric...dick riding to reference the racist show that is boondocks. I don't want to say what realm of typing this thread is starting to reach at, but we don't have that many heavy hitters in this one and are you sure you don't want to put maritsa on ignore, because she just seems to piss you off and offer only limited amusement.

[Suz]

Si= lot's of sex, don't you remember my duals flirting and gropping and talking about sexual stuff, sexing?

For the same picture, I see president Bush (both the Bush's) as being ESTp; because they value honesty and not cheating, and not lying-big ticket ESTp value. They just don't say they value it, they actually do it. ESTj's may value honesty but guarantee you, I see them fudging very easily. They don't want to admit it because they want to look good and well and work towards certain standards and ideals they have about themselves, but they are "human" unlike ESTp's

Arnold on cheating and groping....

British Press Reports Schwarzenegger’s Groping And Affair With Former Little House on the Prairie Actress; When Will U.S. Media Do So?

I can seal the deal by guaranteeing you that on my mother's life, I will NEVER hear Presidents Bush touch another woman except for their wives.

I think that Se-valuers are definitely capable of cheating, they just do it for a different motive. Si-egos will cheat to experience physical pleasure. Se-ego could cheat to have influence or to show their power or how manly they are.

The example of the Bush men not cheating could rather be related to their religious values, which wouldn't be type related. Perhaps what IS type related is, they know if they had affairs their supporters would HEAVILY disapprove, and they didn't want to lose power over such a thing. That would be Se-valuing because they value power over pleasure (unlike Bill Clinton).

[Blaze]

Obama is too smooth to be an EII... and EIIs are not exactly the smoothest of types. Obama knows exactly what to say and how to act to get a certain kind of emotional reaction out of his audience. How is that not Fe? When obama got elected and when he gave his speech it moved some people to tears (lol). Again, how is that not Fe?

i have to say i see it this way, too. obama comes across as introverted, ethical, and dynamic. he is also poised, which might speak towards IEE, but then he seems introverted, letting out the possibility of IEE. he does not seem to be EII....they are more sharp and their rationality and static-ness comes out quickly.

michelle seems static, but i don't get a sense of whether she is introverted or extraverted.

[Sol]

ENFP

this time you are correct

[neverthesame]

Barack Obama is IEE, definitely.

[jughead]

Yes I have changed my mind watching him more and more it popped into my head IEE Fi. His lack of dynamic anger and emotion is unlike both IEI and EII. His speeches are lame ass Fe
When I viewed him again it became apparent and his expressions are Fi>Fe and body movements which are kinda stilted and awkward zoomed straight to my intuitive picture of IEE.

Edit: more fi over fe, he is a negotiator not an arguer, his fe speeches are speeches and meant to support his agenda of negotiation, he never incite people or stirs them up like IEI or EIE would, contrast to strrrng and gilly of course.

[crazedrat]

Gilly is right - Obama is EII. ENFp is a terrible guess... there's nothing extraverted about him. We have a few mistyped INFjs as ENFp on here, too.

[jughead]

If he's eii, then how is his the mirror, iee, such a terrible guess?

[Gilly]

It's not a horrible guess, but IMO it demonstrates less than admirable observation of Obama's general disposition.

[Gilly]

I'm actually not ruling out ESI entirely, having heard the suggestion by Ashton. He does have a kind of solidity and physical composure that I would not expect from an EII.

[silverchris9]

I'm actually not ruling out ESI entirely, having heard the suggestion by Ashton. He does have a kind of solidity and physical composure that I would not expect from an EII.

No. Beta NF makes more sense than ESI. I think ESI is a horrible typing for Obama. He is clearly not an Se-ego. He clearly uses compensatory tactics based in emotion, rather than volitional pressure, to get what he wants. I'm still not sold on him not being an Fe ego, personally, and a type with weak Ne and weak Ni.. all that Ne bs he has to do would be, to my mind, virtually impossible for an ESI. (Notice Bush, who I believe is LSI, but who is certainly not an Ne valuer, epically failing at Ne in... well... everything, while Obama succeeds royally in the "consider every viewpoint" thing, or at least a successful counterfeit thereof.) Physical solidity or no (and I actually don't see that much physical solidity, but perhaps that's due to my preconceived typing notion), Ne-polr doesn't make sense for Obama. Personally, I think Ne over Ni is a better argument for Obama than Fi over Fe, if one insists upon typing him delta NF (I still haven't given up on Beta NF, although I'm considering both now).

[Rick]

Name me a Fi type that tries to get people to start moving and start a rally like Obama did in his campaigns. Name me a Fi type that tries to get people to get pumped up about something. Name me a Fi type that likes to give people "motivational speeches" like having "hope" and bringing "change".

Obama is no Fi, he is totally Fe. I think he's Beta NF and I think he's IEI. He doesn't seem cynical enough to be EIE... he's too positive and optimistic.

I agree with thehotelambush that this is not the "real" Obama. That is indeed what the American People expect from their Presidents-Entertainers, but he doesn't exhibit this on a regular basis now that he's in office.

Yes I have changed my mind watching him more and more it popped into my head IEE Fi. His lack of dynamic anger and emotion is unlike both IEI and EII. His speeches are lame ass Fe
When I viewed him again it became apparent and his expressions are Fi>Fe and body movements which are kinda stilted and awkward zoomed straight to my intuitive picture of IEE.

Edit: more fi over fe, he is a negotiator not an arguer, his fe speeches are speeches and meant to support his agenda of negotiation, he never incite people or stirs them up like IEI or EIE would, contrast to strrrng and gilly of course.

I agree.


For many of the reasons brought up here and for his long-winded, matter-of-fact speaking style in debates, I originally typed him as LIE. I saw an emotional movement centered on Obama, but I didn't see Obama generating that emotion personally. Well stated above: "...his lack of dynamic anger and emotion." Then I read his book, "The Audacity of Hope." There was so much reflection, uncertainty, and humanity in it that I changed my typing to IEI. However, thehotelambush brings up some good points. I was impressed from reading Obama's book of his ability to weigh different viewpoints and see value in all of them without taking sides. I was impressed by his awareness of science, and still am (contrast that to some of the preceding presidents). His role model is Lincoln (EII), who I think Obama quite successfully moulds his strategy after. On many issues Obama seems to be "too passive," despite the fact that he clearly understands the issues. Lincoln kept his personal opinion on slavery private and chose instead to focus on preserving the Union. This seems to be Obama's style, too. I know what his science advisors must be telling him about climate change and our energy future, and yet he is very careful about his public comments on the subject because he doesn't want to say things that people will disagree with. In other words, he is very focused on preserving peace and pushing agendas through gently than with making all the facts and his personal views public.

This comes through in his book, where he suggests that he has become a Christian as a result of some hazily-worded spiritual experience, whereas his writing and thinking displays a clear agnostic thought pattern. He is obviously aware that Americans want a Christian president.

In short, I support a EII or IEE typing of him. I might favor EII over IEE due to his degree of sensitivity to public opinion and mood. With his degree of well-informedness, he could be much more active in educating people than he currently is, and yet he prefers to work off in the sidelines most of the time, entering the scene only at strategic moments.

[Krig the Viking]

In short, I support a EII or IEE typing of him. I might favor EII over IEE due to his degree of sensitivity to public opinion and mood. With his degree of well-informedness, he could be much more active in educating people than he currently is, and yet he prefers to work off in the sidelines most of the time, entering the scene only at strategic moments.

Hmm. If he is indeed EII, that would help explain why people constantly compare him to Jimmy Carter.

I was pretty firmly in the "IEI" camp, but you've made some good arguments, Rick. However, since I find Obama almost entirely uninteresting, it may be a while before I do any further research on the matter.

[Beautiful sky]

I agree with thehotelambush that this is not the "real" Obama. That is indeed what the American People expect from their Presidents-Entertainers, but he doesn't exhibit this on a regular basis now that he's in office.

Type him as LSI and look at how he displays Fe dual seeking and do me a favor, read from many viewpoints not just one...for example, if you see the first sign of Ni, don't jump at it because it might be something momentarily displayed in someone...that's my lesson in typing for you.

[jughead]

not the worst suggestion i've ever heard.

[mfckr]

I can't escape Obama being Fi-ISFj, even though I would love to hurl him over into Delta Quadra or elsewhere.

[jughead]

what type do you see nixon as?

[tcaudilllg]

Seriously.

[Creepy-male]

Are you describing how he is always so calm/collected/mature/articulate when he talks and delivers speeches almost to the point of seeming android like?

[Gilly]

Are you describing how he is always so calm/collected/mature/articulate when he talks and delivers speeches almost to the point of seeming android like?

It's called being EII/Delta.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Seriously.

It's called being EII/Delta.

I mean... of all things to hate the guy for, weak Fe? I have a whole laundry list of other things. Is it cool if this thread goes off-topic, unrelated to socionics, and we turn this into a general bash Obama-thread? Is that cool with everyone?

[ashlesha]

how does he have weak Fe?

Is it cool if this thread goes off-topic, unrelated to socionics, and we turn this into a general bash Obama-thread? Is that cool with everyone?

no.

[CILi]

Is it cool if this thread goes off-topic, unrelated to socionics, and we turn this into a general bash Obama-thread? Is that cool with everyone?

16Types Vote on Passage of the Bill: M.D. 592 (Generalized Obama-Bashage)

YEAs: 1
NAYs: 1
Not Voting: 0

[crazedrat]

I mean... of all things to hate the guy for, weak Fe? I have a whole laundry list of other things. Is it cool if this thread goes off-topic, unrelated to socionics, and we turn this into a general bash Obama-thread? Is that cool with everyone?

go ahead. Im interested to hear it.

[Kim]

It's called being EII/Delta.

I find it extremely appealing.

[krieger]

are we officially at the point yet where obama has been typed absolutely EVERTHING throughout this forum's history?

[munenori2]

SLE

[CILi]

^ This makes sense to me.

Dopamine!

Wowza, somebody needa get laaaaiiid

You dissin' me or the HLD?

[Beautiful sky]

Missing Fe (aka DS)

[Saberstorm]

I think all the socionics pages list Obama as ESI. I tend to agree.

[Eliza Thomason]

I thought some Obama fans (not me) might know what the President and his wife's types are. From this article, they appear to be Duals: http://shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/pres...205600463.html since he is happy and relaxed around her, that they enjoy and listen to each other, and they appear to be equals. Does anyone know?

[Scapegrace]

Nobody has ever discussed this before.

Thank you for clarifying that you don't worship the devil Marxists.

[Scapegrace]

It's a shame that all that fisting couldn't save their marriage.