Are Si types always tired?

[Bertrand]

i feel like beta is trying to be nice when they call it counter intuitive but its just their inability to process it via Ti and based on the presupposition being tired is some kind of weakness. so the default presumption is its preposterous unless proven because to hold that position is a form of well-meaning egalitarian impulse not to impute weakness to anyone without ironclad Ti justification. whereas the other camp just looks at it from the phenomenological standpoint of it being an equally valid if not preferable experience and wants to investigate how it does fit in. in other words, its surprising its such a polarizing subject but I guess in retrospect it shouldnt be. I dont live my life like an unending sports match and I don't feel like it means I'm depressed, or otherwise in need of professional care. its the flipside to pathologizing any sort of normal psychological disposition. one person's tiredness may be depressive because of their baseline state, whereas another person's activity might be psychotic acting out because of their baseline state. it is fundamentally the problem of projection all over again

[Aylen]

"avoid sweeteners", "don’t overindulge in fatty and sugary foods"
I noticed that mood becomes better after several days without any sweets.
2 boiled eggs for every 2 days is good idea too. Kefir is better with bifi bacteriums, fresh one (<half of selling time) - 2 x 250 ml per day.
They did not mention, that it's useful to eat bread a few, as it has B vitamine - helps with nervous system, including the brain.

Chocolate has sugar, so is doubtful as recommended. Tea may work, but tolerance to caffeine should develop quickly.

I don't care much for sweets anymore. I prefer salty/sour foods and with my naturally low blood pressure my doctor recommends getting more salt in my diet. I am a fast caffeine metabolizer according to my dna which I can confirm. It does not really give me any boost at normal amounts. I can drink more caffeine than some of my friends and not feel much different. I take a b supplement because I do no eat enough.

http://www.consumergenetics.com/DNA-...olism-Test.php

gs159

CYP1A2 fast metabolizer Your CYP1A2 fast Drug Metabolism status means that you are less stimulated by caffeine. Ciprofloxacin is also metabolized by CYP1A2, but is unclear if your genotype should influence its effect.

rs762551(A;A)
Fast Caffeine Metabolizer. Unlike the majority of people, caffeine is broken down faster in your liver, so it has less effect on you. Supposedly this decreases heart attack risk, although other studies show caffeine is generally good for the heart. Caffeine will be less effective at preventing Breast Cancer, Alzheimer's Disease, and Parkinson's disease. Caffeine will not make your breasts smaller.

I didn't even know it could make some people's breast smaller to begin with but good to know.

I am ok on B vitamins according to tests but I have that mfkr [MTHFR]gene so I may have some issues with folate.

gs192

MTHFR polymorphisms affecting homocysteine You have a combination of 2 SNP variations in MTHFR which influence homocysteine levels. This is found in ~20% of people. 0.08% of people had a double copy of a mutation in one of the SNPs, and a single mutation in the other. [] . gs193 indicates double mutations in both snps, and people with this are believed to be critically impacted, however several promethease users have self reported this genotype with no apparent consequences.
• rs1801131 is at position 1298
• rs1801133 is at position 677
• http://www.mthfrheds.com/
• https://www.23andme.com/you/community/thread/5312/
• https://www.23andme.com/you/community/thread/2001/
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA8GUIRqIkE MTHFR mutation frequencies in a sample of 37,000 individuals:
• 677CT/1298AA 22.8% - 1 heterozygous mutation...

Overview:

rs17367504 linked to the gene MTHFR. Your genotype is AG, which is observed in 21% of all individuals reported.

What the science suggests:

Your genotype (AG) is potentially associated with:

• 0.534 mmHg decrease for Mean Arterial Pressure (R)
• 0.85 mm Hg decrease for Systolic Blood Pressure (R)

I have low blood pressure bordering hypotension but it is normal for me.

[Sol]

I didn't even know it could make some people's breast smaller to begin with but good to know.

Mb it does not in food's doses. Caffeine may boost metabolism and this may reduce fat in the body, so breasts and other good places may to loose part of their charm.

[Hope]

The funny thing is, I attributed my lack of rest and sleep as weak . Perhaps doms need doms to give the to energize their . While, doms need from doms so they can make the most out of their . Each type helps the other reach their full potential essentially.

I think its like that!

Ne types have lack of rest and sleep problems because of 1DSi and 4DNe, I think Ne keeps them always thinking. I think Ne and Se are the most active elements. But I dont think Se types have problem with rest. I think its the psychic nature of Ne which makes difficult for them to rest or listen and attend to their body needs. Si is the opposite, Si is all focused in fulfilling its physical needs and aware of body sensations. Thats why I think Si tends to laziness (or focusing in feel comfortable and ok), so it makes Ne types to fulfill more their own physical needs and being more focused and oriented and practical in specific goals. Ne helps Si to be more productive providing them motivation and new perspectives and therefore less focused in itself.

We got some balance together.

[Bertrand]

I agree but I would add Se types often get just as little sleep, but the difference is they don't think of it as a problem at all. Like many, and LIE included, will get 5 hours a night, but the difference is in how Si valuing views itself and that scenario. So a lot of it is what each type takes "problem with rest" to mean, rather than objective numbers on hours slept, etc. Meanwhile Ni is sort of famous for being able to sleep or (day) dream anywhere, which is sort of the flipside to that dynamic, where like instead of pulling eachother into more restful states they pull eachother into more productive states, which is sort of the Ni version of what Si is to Ne but to Se, at least when blocked with Te, which is precisely why Se/Ni is more "go-getter" in its priorities. that they view lack of rest in fundamentally different ways is just another way to say they're more "go-getter"

[Starvish]

Ne types have lack of rest and sleep problems because of 1DSi and 4DNe, I think Ne keeps them always thinking.
We got some balance together.

Oh jeez I can definitely relate to this; I'm always staying up at night thinking of story ideas and listening to music for inspiration. Maybe I'm Ne.

I think my girlfriend might be a Si-ego or just Si-valuing too, just going off of what I've heard here. She's really good at and dedicated to art and fitness and stuff, but she's super introverted. Almost all of her work focuses on the human body and drawing anatomy. Constantly sounds tired, too, and seems to try to isolate herself from external pressures by turning inward to what she likes to do.

[Hope]

i feel like beta is trying to be nice when they call it counter intuitive but its just their inability to process it via Ti and based on the presupposition being tired is some kind of weakness. so the default presumption is its preposterous unless proven because to hold that position is a form of well-meaning egalitarian impulse not to impute weakness to anyone without ironclad Ti justification. whereas the other camp just looks at it from the phenomenological standpoint of it being an equally valid if not preferable experience and wants to investigate how it does fit in. in other words, its surprising its such a polarizing subject but I guess in retrospect it shouldnt be. I dont live my life like an unending sports match and I don't feel like it means I'm depressed, or otherwise in need of professional care. its the flipside to pathologizing any sort of normal psychological disposition. one person's tiredness may be depressive because of their baseline state, whereas another person's activity might be psychotic acting out because of their baseline state. it is fundamentally the problem of projection all over again

Yes, I should just have said that what my state doesnt impede me to get out off the bed (just get off too early, lol), or do my chores and enjoy doing those for others.
Plus, I was exaggerating a little bit, its not like I wake up tired, Its like I get tired too soon or too quickly, especially when I go out, and its hot outside.

Anyway, my tiredness usually dissipates with coffee, sugary drinks can work too.

Btw, ime Introverts tend to be less energetic than extroverts, and Ixxp over Ixxj. My top lazybones are Ixxp for sure. Part is laziness part is tiredness, I guess.

Anyway, I was thinking that as Jung said, maybe the perception of the outside in the internal states of Si is not objective (as he says because of being introverted). Maybe what truly happens is that Si perception of external influence is kinda disproportionate in the effect of the internal state.

[The Reality Denialist]

When I did very suboptimal work for me I actually slept a lot after it. Ruined my whole day.

Then I did something interesting in a lab from 8 AM to 8 PM no breaks. Continued with data at home until my body collapsed into sleep mode after midnight and I was ready for next day in the morning.

[WinnieW]

I agree but I would add Se types often get just as little sleep, but the difference is they don't think of it as a problem at all.

I guess most of the types having a extroverted perception function ( or ) in the ego block spend a lot of time with intaking various amounts of information.

I spend at least 12 hours a day with aquiring information. I browse the internet, read, listen to music and watch TV. That fills a lot of my spare time.
I aquire a lot of knowledge like a sponge, out of pure curiousity.

Then I did something interesting in a lab from 8 AM to 8 PM no breaks.

Yeah, I can relate. When I do something that I'm really into it I don't think about time at all until the point I got excausted.
Then often it's late at night.

Addendum:
I think I value because I try to maximise positive sensations and to minimise negative sensations.
Furthermore I think I'm a sensitive person because I perceive the effects of caffeine and alcohol rather strong.

[Hope]

Oh jeez I can definitely relate to this; I'm always staying up at night thinking of story ideas and listening to music for inspiration. Maybe I'm Ne.

I think my girlfriend might be a Si-ego or just Si-valuing too, just going off of what I've heard here. She's really good at and dedicated to art and fitness and stuff, but she's super introverted. Almost all of her work focuses on the human body and drawing anatomy. Constantly sounds tired, too, and seems to try to isolate herself from external pressures by turning inward to what she likes to do.

maybe SEI if ethical or SLI if logical for her.

[Starvish]

maybe SEI if ethical or SLI if logical for her.

Yeah, introverted Alpha/Delta most likely... leaning more to one of those two.

[Kernel]

Hmm when I'm with my SEI and SLI friends, both start being very energetic and alive and they tell me that I should speak more, be more energetic, I feel like it allows them to be themselves with me because of that, like with others, they often don't talk much and look tired. The SEI often seems calm and relaxed while the SLI seems angry.
I often look tired, even if I slept well, it annoys my EIE friend because sometimes when I'm like that, I either ignore everything or feel stressed by everything, but SLIs I know laugh at me and try to find out what caused that, they would ask "Do you perhaps want (certain thing)?" when I didn't want anything. It's funny, because it happens with every SLI I meet. I also know that one of them doesn't sleep much, like 3-4 hours maximum and he doesn't seem tired because of it. Like that's enough for him and he feels energized quickly. My SEI friend sleeps so much. She has this calming aura surrounding her, a sleepy look and slow way of talking that puts you to sleep.
I know an ILI who sometimes doesn't sleep for 2/3 days and he never complain about it. Same for an EIE.

[Exodus]

It's not from the feeling lack of energy, but from the wish to do lesser of unpleasant or lesser pleasant actions.
It's Si type and hence physical efforts where it's possibly will be minimized, it's S type - hence intellectual work is harder and may get lesser interest.

They may do a lot what they like or find as obligate. I know SLI which liked to program on personal computer for own fun, did it for significant time (mb played a lot too what needs energy). But he had no much interest to do this for money, to make career, to do public useful, to study that seriously. He had all - knowledge, abbilities, energy, except motivation to do "actual work". If there was IEE near, she'd motivated on interesting for him and meanwhile more reasonable to live better. Without such support - they do not use own potential good and may look as lazy from the side - they are hard to see what to do better.

In your own citation: "_mistaken_ for a lazybones"
They need to explain them better possibilities to inspire the interest for more activity. In soft Fi way.

> he does not hurry

It's also from that P types often leave a work to the end.
Ni is weak unvalued - they do not think about time good and do not like such thinking, so may to underestimate what and when is better to do.

I somewhat agree with this, that's part of it at least. (See how much more productive this kind of comment is than just calling something heresy?)

[whodat]

No they are not always tired..but they do have "set" points, and it can be extremely frustrating for other people to work around.

[Grendel]

I am.

[Hope]

Thanks @Aylen, I was reading some info about CFS…hmm..some things seem spot on but I don't know if that will be enough for a diagnose...

I do suffer form hypersensitivity to temperature changes, if its too hot my head aches by rule, I have an awful memory, I'm often sleepy, sometimes my rest is restoring, sometimes its not, intolerance to stress and physical effort I'll say likely, not extreme but again compared with others, yes, palpitations sometimes, I've and had another problems, right now some back aches, I used to have them years ago but they dissapeared for many years …but I don't know if thats enough for considering myself like having CFS, how it can be diagnosed? I think my most evident or frequent symptoms are being sleepy, low energy, head aches and cold for temperature changes...IDK, I think it even can be related to circadian rhythm, since I`ve always felt better at night, maybe due sensitivity of temperature and light..

Central sensitization can be defined as a state in which the central nervous system amplifies sensory input across many organ systems.

CSS, Central Sensitization Syndrome, seems pretty much what I was describing with Si before, lol

[Singu]

So this discussion has turned from "Are Si types always tired?" to a discussion about what makes one scientifically, biologically or psychologically tired.

You could say "This describes how I was describing Si", and you could have independently arrived at that conclusion and indeed may have discovered something, but it's not "Si" per se in a Socionics sense.

People say "I know some people who are SEI or SLI who are tired", but then you are talking about people who are tired, so of course that is related to the discussion of tiredness. But it's not necessarily because they're Si.

[strangeling]

I wish I didn't have to sleep or get tired. It's fucking annoying.

[Sol]

See how much more productive this kind of comment is than just calling something heresy?

At first you've made an assertion without arguments and your reasons were not clear. I've asnwered in the same style. After you've added your reasons, I could to discuss them.
I thought my understanding is common. Your interpretation of Weisband have suprised me.
Also as you are not a novice, I assumed you could to use some not-classical hypotheses to come to that conclusion, as thought the classical would lead to same.

[perpetuus]

I'm tired a lot lately.

[niffer]

I constantly feel tired actually

[falsehope]

Beside NTR it's counterintuitive: Do types sleep less and worse? I'd rather think of - valuers as the tireless workhorses who won't rest properly. Especially the Gamma and Beta extroverts who have either ignored or PoLR . Other than that only the leads might have that issue.

Workaholism - when NT does it, it seems quite normal and he's not deranged or anything and usually does it a lot and there arent any other mental health concerns surrounding it, if ST does it, it seems to be an issue (and really looks concerning), when SF / NF does it, he's completely mad.

Not sure about NFs because I havent been working with them much.

So when LIE or ILE does work a lot, it's not real workaholism. It's a normal state in which these types are happy and there is nothing wrong with it. However, there's something like real workaholism and it can hit even Si types (which I have seen) and with it there are some major mental issues accompanying and they require medication and therapy. But you can't cure ILE and LIE from it and you don't need to. So it's not an issue for them. It can develop into a issue, yes, but it can develop into issue in any other type and has nothing to do with socionics.

[Hope]

I just want to update: my state improved 100% when I started exercising harder. I think I was having lack of proper oxigenation in my brain and body cells since I also was suffering daily headaches.

so, @niffer, you can try with harder workout. Its like magic to me.

I still thinking that Ixxp temperaments (especially) tend to fall in too much inactivity and apathy in their lifestyles, so we need Se and Ne, which brings energy and changes. My IEE helped me out to solve my problem indirectly.

Edit. I also discovered that physical work is very rewarding to me. I was falling in too much physically passive activities and neglecting doing stuff with my body, which is more natural and healthy to me.

[Singu]

Well that obviously has to do with Si.

Of course, it's just some attempt at evil Beta manipulation and power-play if I say that it doesn't have to do with this "Si".

And obviously, a scientific explanation is just some evil Ti contraption.

It all makes sense, bitches.

[Grendel]

Irregular mononucleosis sucks ass tbh.

[marooned]

I'm tired all the time and I'm coming around to seeing it as physical. I have two people in my family very interested in health topics who pass me information (how convenient!). One thing they've convinced me of is that what we eat directly correlates with energy. I have a lot of autoimmune issues inherited from one side of the family and that means my immune system is probably busy dealing with its True Enemies like gluten and nightshade plants and so on. This probably drains all my energy and nutrition because my immune system has likely hijacked the entire thing.

I am not sure doctors can help because they just wanna give us pills. They are good at doing things like spotting known diseases and not good at anything else. They are trained to address things after they've gone on so long they've manifested in a known disease. Perhaps naturopaths are better. I've never been to one because it's more difficult to work that out with insurance and I am so tired all the time.

[Cosmic Teapot]

I find most people who claim to be tired all the time are just bored to death

[squark]

I'm tired all the time and I'm coming around to seeing it as physical. I have two people in my family very interested in health topics who pass me information (how convenient!). One thing they've convinced me of is that what we eat directly correlates with energy. I have a lot of autoimmune issues inherited from one side of the family and that means my immune system is probably busy dealing with its True Enemies like gluten and nightshade plants and so on. This probably drains all my energy and nutrition because my immune system has likely hijacked the entire thing.

I am not sure doctors can help because they just wanna give us pills. They are good at doing things like spotting known diseases and not good at anything else. They are trained to address things after they've gone on so long they've manifested in a known disease. Perhaps naturopaths are better. I've never been to one because it's more difficult to work that out with insurance and I am so tired all the time.

If your innards are damaged from the autoimmune issues you may not be absorbing nutrients from your foods properly. A big one for me was B12 - the mouth-dissolvable kind, either methyl-B12 or adeno-B12, not cyano. Can make a big difference in energy levels (and for me, reversing the whole arms and legs going numb thing) while you heal your system.

[ouronis]

I'm usually tired but I usually know why. If it's not because I wore myself out at work, it's because I stayed up too late. If it's not because I stayed up too late it's drugs. If it's not drugs it's because I'm bored. If I'm enjoying a beautiful sunny day and feeling good and sober I'm not tired.

Also for whatever reason I switched to a French press instead of office coffee first thing in the morning and it made a huge difference.

[Allegra]

They work and play tirelessly when sx is being stoked. Otherwise, tired asf!

[Xaiviay]

I agree with all the health recommendations in this thread and also would like to reiterate the B vitamin recommendation. From what I know, this makes a huge difference for many who start supplementing it.

As a random suggestion, the thing that most dramatically increased my energy was accupressure to boost my immune system.

I agree with @Sol saying that Si dominance makes you feel your fatigue more acutely than most people, but it doesn't make you more tired. More like it makes you more averse to upsetting your body's state of equilibrium. So if you're already tired, you're not going to want to work against the urge of your body's system to rest, as much as other types might.

[Xaiviay]

I'm tired all the time and I'm coming around to seeing it as physical. I have two people in my family very interested in health topics who pass me information (how convenient!). One thing they've convinced me of is that what we eat directly correlates with energy. I have a lot of autoimmune issues inherited from one side of the family and that means my immune system is probably busy dealing with its True Enemies like gluten and nightshade plants and so on. This probably drains all my energy and nutrition because my immune system has likely hijacked the entire thing.

I am not sure doctors can help because they just wanna give us pills. They are good at doing things like spotting known diseases and not good at anything else. They are trained to address things after they've gone on so long they've manifested in a known disease. Perhaps naturopaths are better. I've never been to one because it's more difficult to work that out with insurance and I am so tired all the time.

Yes, I'm glad you've figured out that doctors don't really know anything other than how to give pills (which always come with side effects). Naturopaths, homeopaths, and chiropractors are more helpful. But there's a lot of health information you can find on the web if you just dig for it and check the research and personal testimonies that support it. Many people I know have overcome fatigue with supplements, grounding, organic food, etc etc...