New member salutations + request for typing

[Olduvai]

Does MBTI INTJ = socionics LII in your opinion? If so - why?

Function-wise, no. But if he tested multiple times as INTJ, then there's a good chance he is a rational, introverted, and intuitive thinking type. In other words, an LII.

(I vote switching last letters for introverted types when trying to 'switch' from MBTI to socionics, so INTJ = ILI in my book - which in my experience seemed to work better so far, that's why I'm asking for your reasoning - is it based on your experience or on some theory?)

The whole "last letter switch" thing just means that INTJ leads with Ti instead of Ni, and that INTP leads with Ni instead of Ti. Do the MBTI tests determine which functions a person uses, or do they merely determine which type a person is based on self-reported "behaviors", "tendencies", and/or "preferences"?

[Olduvai]

The prickled poet deadens with the dawn,
Shunned by his short cock’s crow, ‘fraid to grow long.

He awaits light, instead greets overcast,
Finding no life sprung from his wooden staff,

A chore to read his inert, flaccid strokes.

Alack, a fooled prick’s comings, falling short.

floppy cock

Never quite understanding his urges;
Nor joyful heaven’s bliss in her surges.

I think you're writing about an IEE.

The fact of the matter is he indeed:
A learnéd little fellow lacking seed.

I think many IEEs could use a reality check.

This poet follows his rules to a ‘T’:
In Truth, merely impotence made holy.

Fi-bashing. Yay.

Too weak to speak of things most high and deep,
A shallow slav’ry, the sole friend he keeps.

More Fi-bashing. More yay.

While his poéms admit not of laughter,
In stern debate, he grasps himself master.

It's a Ti-PoLR thing.

Joyless without the spark made seminal,
What seems great to him is in fact quite dull.

That's a matter of personal opinion.

Trivial, a word do his thoughts provoke:
He anoints himself praise of high import,

Here's why this poor fellow's thoughts seem trivial to you:

That's only because an Ne-base would place more emphasis on the trivial aspects of a system, as Ne means "Explicit System Statics". Thus, to a Ti- or Fi-base, for whom "Implicit System Statics" or "Implicit Object Statics" is the leading function, an Ne-base may appear naive, ill-informed, or underdeveloped. A Ti- or Fi-base, by contrast, would be more focused on the unstated, one-might-say-"Implicit" properties that are less obvious to the Ne-base due to the concept of "Function Strength".

If "the prickled pedant" really is IEE, and if you really are LII, then anything he can say about a system would seem trivial to you. If he tried to fall back on his secondary function it would do no good; we've seen your attitude toward Fi. This is why a supervisory relationship exists between IEE and LII.

Alack, a fooled prick’s comings, falling short.
Such plight we find in this fop’s mocking deeds,
A prick pedant made blind by his floppy cock’s creed.

Is "his floppy cock's creed" a vow of chastity? Or is it the opposite? Or is it something else entirely?

[Olduvai]

Yes, exactly my good sir -- that entire poem was about you -- bravo, I must say. I'm glad you finally will admit your pedantry...among other things.

lol, I hate that part about me... that I take things personally. It's the curse of Feeling.

[Olduvai]

Yes Fi users tend to get that way, especially Fi egos. I get that way when I'm really paranoid or need to have sex -- so like all the time. Kidding, of course. I don't think any of that convoluted mess you wrote about my poem necessarily points to LII nor do the test results -- all of the tests I've taken have been totally dissatisfying -- too many binary questions, I tend to see myself on each pole when asked. The Dialectical-Algorithmic, EIE possibility is far more likely. I'm not the same type as Immanuel Kant, whose logical masturbations, I find dull and pedantic...

perhaps you're ILI, and the poem is about LSE?

regardless, you're pretty cool I guess

[Olduvai]

Or perhaps it's just an assignment that calls for the student to write a poem in the satyrical style using heroic couplets. In this case, calling upon the subject matter that the satirists loved to malign so much: pedants.

Sorry, it's the PoLR again. By that I mean I poorly (if at all) perceive the "implicit" and "static" properties of "fields", or "conditions". Not that you care.

By the way, you use a lot of " : " in your writing - I know an LII who does the same thing.

[Olduvai]

convoluted mess

Your terminology here kinda proves my point. If you are LII, then your primary function is "Implicit Field Statics" and your secondary function is "Explicit Field Statics". If I am IEE, then my primary function is "Explicit Field Statics" and my secondary function is "Implicit Object Statics", making "Implicit Field Statics" my weakest unvalued function. Furthermore, your role function is "Implicit Object Statics". It kinda seems obvious then that you would loom like a shadow over me: you're strong where I am strong and strong where I am defenseless. Anything I say will seem illogical and silly to you. Enjoy your superiority, dickhead.

[JuJu]

Reading the original post, there's a show on my TV in the background; "Law & Order: Criminal Intent."

I'm replying because I'm looking at your photo, and simultaneously, the actor on TV -- Vincent D'Onofrio -- looks a lot like you… (Good looking dude, so it's not like when a girl on the subway told me I looked like "Dawson's Creek," which hasn't sat well over the years… Or Aaron Hernandez, accused murderer -- another gem.)

[JuJu]

Lol..! Mind-blowing scene… I forgot he was in that. (He's been in some great movies, now that I'm looking at it… He gained 70 lbs for "Full Metal Jacket" -- that's fucking commitment!)

Anyway, I don't mean to imply a relation between type and superficial resemblance. (I don't know D'Onofrio's type, anyway.)

If you write about things you like -- music, movies, stuff like that -- it can point to a quadra.

The Socionix site is hit-or-miss, IMO -- like all of them.

[Kill4Me]

@JuJu: El Chapo Guzman > Aaron Hernandez



http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaest...man-is-caught/

[Olduvai]

LMAO, Yes, YES, I am superior! You've finally admitted it!!! Muahahahahahahaha!!!

/irony

Anyway, care to know who your supervisor is, possible-LII? If so, you might consider watching this video:

Perhaps you could provide me with an example of a dual ESFj whom I didn't want to strangle to death?

I can only think of one ESE at the moment, and she's a little young, but as a template she'll do:

Whether you want to strangle her to death is your decision. Perhaps your "ESFj" have really been "ESFp"?

Also, your thoughts on Socionix' gallery of famous VI types?

It's hard to say. On the one hand I'm instantly skeptical as people generally suck at typing, but on the other hand I know little beyond names and faces when it comes to celebrities, so there's a possibility they could be typed correctly.

My gut tells me most Hollywood-folk are feelers of both genders. There may be some STs and NTs sprinkled here and there, but I think the majority are probably SFs and NFs.

In your opinion, do they get it right -- in that, is it a useful resource?

Only if the typings are correct. If they are not, it would be misleading to rookie socionauts, in which case it would be doing a disservice.

[Olduvai]

I wonder if instead of LII which you feel is your supervisor, I'm your contrary relation? Thus, an IEI.

I've never felt supervised in a contrary relation... quite the contrary, actually. Pun absolutely intended. ILI would make more sense to me because their Ti-powers equal those of LII, but the problem is you strike me as an Asker and not a Declarer.

Ti as my base seems pretty damn far-fetched...and I'm not really anything like the LIIs in those videos on your thread.

Why does having Ti as your base seem far-fetched, and how do you differ from the LIIs in those videos?

[JuJu]

@JuJu: El Chapo Guzman > Aaron Hernandez



http://www.forbes.com/sites/doliaest...man-is-caught/

Now I can see that -- at least you're putting me in with a better class of people (lol!) …Aaron Hernandez, pssh -- the girl who said that, I blocked her number… And "Dawson's Creek" -- I was talking to this Berkeley sorority student on a train, thinking I was getting somewhere with her, then and then she busts that out… And what do you say?! "You think I look like a show that sucks?" It all worked out though - turns out she loved the show… I still haven't seen it.

And within 9 months he lost all of the weight and went from the likes of the master Stanley Kubrick to this:



Fe-EIE? He played a pretty mean Orson Welles.

Wow, man… Usually I root for people to succeed, but in this case, the agent that counseled him to make "Thor" deserves to be eating out of a dumpster… Luckily he's a hell of an actor.

I'd need to check out a few interviews to type him with real confidence, but my first impression was Fe-EIE -- Yngwie Malmsteen was the EIE parallel that came to mind… Also, FWIW, I read earlier that his best friend is Ethan Hawke (LSI.)

[Olduvai]

As you mentioned -- you take things personally quite often -- if you feel supervised then it's most likely your own projection on what little you know of me.

Perhaps, perhaps.

IEI is also an Asker. So is EIE.

They are indeed, but your writing has an "economy" and a "deliberateness" to it that I find characteristic of logical types. Vague, I know, but those qualities are present in almost every action a logical type makes; it's like they're "more wound up" or "strung tighter" than ethical types. However, there is always room for error, especially when I have little to no information about the subject.

This doesn't accord with the way I see reality. Ti as base:

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=sans-serif]

Before you dismiss LII as a possibility, take a look at Filatova's description:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ion-(Filatova)

[JuJu]

So it's most likely a product of that indoctrination. Also, the poetry is highly formal poetry following a particular style of thought with attendant themes.

"Indoctrination" is the truth… It took me years out grad school to get halfway back as far as writing goes. Economy of wording was drummed in, (esp. in journalism school -- likewise as an undergraduate in art history.)

I don't have enough info to say "McBain is [whatever type]" but IMO, you're looking at the most obvious choices.

[Kim]

What is *academic philosophy*?

[sweetgingerpeach]

Wow that is a whole lot of theorizing and deliberating going on o.o Read through it all quickly, and I'm not even sure whats going on anymore

What exactly were you leaning towards now? Or are you still completely lost and uncertain hahaha

I just wanted to pipe in with my two cents, since I have a very close IEI E4 friend, and you don't seem very similar to her....like...at all haha I think it's just the detail you put into your responses and the way you articulate yourself. She gets an intuitive sense of thing, but she can't ever really explain why. She just says "it is because I just know it is", while my SEI self would go more into the details around that contribute to my sense of something (similar to when you described one of the posters to this thread--Maritsa I think?). I'm not saying dominant intuition is out of the question, but you just don't strike me as an IEI at all.

Of course, I have a fairly limited understanding of socionics and am basing my views off personal experience :'D
Sorry I can't help much past that.

[sweetgingerpeach]

That's a lot of types hahhaa

She's 21, if that makes a difference or helps. Hmm...it could be upbringing then. We went to a Christian private school the majority of our schooling, so the standards were fairly high as well as a lot of strict rules and such. However, she was a little rebel and did as little work as possible and just manipulated the teachers into giving her good grades. In fact, all the betas I know that were in her clique were like that. They just....really didn't care about school haha. They did the minimal work, or more depending on how strict their parents were, but they'd rather goof off and pass notes and hide in the bathroom and get out of things. It was all about having fun and "ruling" the school in their own way. A power struggle thing I guess. I've heard form some sources that most betas are kind of like that....but I don't really know haha

[sweetgingerpeach]

Interesting, because she also had a parent as one of the teachers hahha
She's in college as well, but her passions don't reside there, so she still is very bored with the system and probably always will be.

Hm...perhaps I can convince her to read some of your poetry and she if it resonates with her. She's a songwriter, and is taking a poetry class, and is finding it hard to conform to the beginning rules for poets that they teach. She wants to write everything in a very abstract manner so that you have to "figure it out", but there aren't very many details to go off of at all, so most people have no idea what she's referring to xD
Do you find that you tend to write that way, or do you prefer a more concrete way of writing?

[sweetgingerpeach]

@McBain: Well, I got her to read over a couple of your poems and she couldn't even listen to more than a few lines from each because there was just too much concrete detail haha Looking at the thread quickly, she definitely thinks you aren't an IEI or beta (if you were, you would have to be ENFj/EIE). You come across as too serious, so you're most likely a gamma or a delta. She says this because she simply can't stand gammas haha And also most betas wouldn't care so much about what type they are (according to her, they'd go along with whatever people said or something).

We have a couple INTp(ILI) friends/siblings, and we think you're more like them than an IEI. They are all well-liked people, did well in school, but in a way that they could trick the system into giving them grades for little work (not that they really cared about the marks per say). If you were an ILI, then that would make sense why you mentioned liking the idea of being an SEE earlier in the thread (which is the dual counterpart).

That being said, you could be something else. She's just really sure you're not an IEI or a beta hahhaa

[Beautiful sky]

SEI and final

[sweetgingerpeach]

Provide me with an example of what you and her are calling "concrete" please and which "serious" poems are you referring to? The one where I talk about how pedants have small cocks and are impotent? If you read the form poems -- I've already pointed out that they are intended to be intellectual -- following certain rules and parameters that the assignment rigidly is asking for. I don't take them as anything close to the way in which I write. Merely an exercise.

Unfortunately, she can't give me an example of what she finds concrete detail haha She just gets a strange feeling about it :/ It might be a combination of the form of the poems with the elevated language. Perhaps (from what I can gather) things like "tip-toeing upon dew meadows", "tidal waves newly crashing against sea cliffs", "drunken curtsies
and garbled fits of laughter", and "diamond-inspired feathers". They paint very distinct pieces of a picture, but I suppose you're probably more practiced in that and have an easier time with it than she does. Still...

The sheer volume of thought and text in your posts on this forum is way beyond anything she'd write. And the 'serious' thing, again, may be part of the elevated language, but she could be picking up on what seems to me like a lack of Fe...it's not all fun and games and "feel-good". It's more thought-provoking, dissecting, and soul-searching...pragmatic. I can't quite put my finger on it, since again, my knowledge of socionics is rather limited. I do know that my friend knows herself and has strong intuition, and I know her pretty well (as well as the few things I do know about personality typing).

Have you looked up the descriptions of the quadras or profile of different types? Also, your enneagram (if you know it) could account for traits unexplained by socionics typing.

@Maritsa: What makes you say SEI? Just curious c:

[JuJu]

FWIW, I looked into Vincent D'Onofrio's type (interviews) and believe he's an Fi-ESI -- along the lines of Josh Ritter… Tough to type though -- great actor, and Fi-ESI is one of the most confusing subtypes.

I don't feel like I have enough info to give you a quality typing though, McBain… After reading through the thread though, my best guess would be the same as for D'Onofrio -- not because of the photos, but b/c of the content posted.

[aisa]

In many respects, I was the same. In high school, I learned how to milk the system in order to do the least amount of work possible for the greatest benefit and it paid off. Meanwhile, I did just exactly what I wanted to do. It also helps if you have a parent as a teacher to mitigate potential flub ups along the way. I'm still that way in college, I've just got more flexibility in what I want to do and I pursue my passions with a fervor.

umm... I don't think that's really type-related. It's more to do with memory/intelligence/observation of how the 'system' works. I'm SEI and was acting very similar to what you've just described. Just saying...
oh, and I'd really like to know what made @Maritsa think you're SEI (?), cause I just don't see SEI in you. I'm sticking with ILI for you, could imagine ESI, but given I know ESI/ILI (yeah, activity) couple veeery well, my initial thought still leans toward ILI...

[ashlesha]

not seeing ESI.. dyamicism and a smoother energy. imo Ji leads have more conversational hiccups where things bump against their internal system. doesn't have to be anything major but the way mcbain is talking here seems more receptive and open.

[JuJu]

dyamicism.

True

[ashlesha]

yea dyamicism

[sweetgingerpeach]

umm... I don't think that's really type-related. It's more to do with memory/intelligence/observation of how the 'system' works. I'm SEI and was acting very similar to what you've just described. Just saying...
oh, and I'd really like to know what made @Maritsa think you're SEI (?), cause I just don't see SEI in you. I'm sticking with ILI for you, could imagine ESI, but given I know ESI/ILI (yeah, activity) couple veeery well, my initial thought still leans toward ILI...

Ah, good point. I just recall all the betas I knew doing it, so I thought it was predominantly a quadra thing haha I suppose it's possbile for any type to have that attitude toward school, the betas just approach it differently than people from other quadras. I don't really know OTL Still trying to sort this stuff out in my head :/

I don't really see SEI either?? Definitely getting a gamma vibe, probably ILI.

Huh, I'd be curious to see what her poems look like as a comparison...

I've checked out the quadras -- gamma seemed the most likely on first impression, however my interests and spiritual kinships seem to be with IEIs but all that is kind of being called into question. Like the more you think you're certain about something -- the fact of the matter is you don't really know anything. Enneagram I don't know much about.

Her poems are all extemely vague and abstract. I'll see if I can get some snippets from her.

If you feel a connection with IEIs, it could be comparative relations at work. http://www.socionics.com/rel/cmp.htm A combination of that and your enneagram (if you're E4, for example) could be why you identify so much with components of the IEI personality.

It's really hard to know though. In the end, you know yourself the best. I'd suggest just reading everything you can about types, intertype relations, quadras (I know this greatly helped both me and IEI friend solidify our types), enneagram, instincs, personality descriptions.... It might just be my Si talking, but the more info you have, the bigger the picture you have to work with, and the easier it is to distinguish was does or doesn't "fit" with you c:

[sweetgingerpeach]

Haha that's pretty darn Ni-typical of you, only needing a bit of info to get an impression xD I'd say that if that's your gut instinct, then you're probably right. As for the IEI or ILI debate, I can't really say since I can only base my knowledge off one IEI person who obviously had a different set of life experiences form you. She could be a different subtype or enneagram too. Who knows -shrug- I'm really curious though haha

[Beautiful sky]

Yeah sorry wrong thread

I'm sticking with my SEE typing and that's final

[JuJu]

Let us know how it turns out?

It'd be a win to get some conversation going in Gamma.

[ashlesha]

EIE

[JuJu]

I liked the poems -- meaning there's a snowball's chance in hell that you're alpha.

To know whether you're my dual (ILI,) activity (LIE,) or mirage (IEI,) I'd need to interact with you a little while longer... (My gf of the past year was a mirage relation… She'd probably tell you the same thing but mean something different.) Benefactor is also possible.

Based on what's here, my best guesses (in order) are: 1.) ILI 2.) IEI 3.) LIE, SEE 5.) EIE … Do you want to get the typing exactly right, or is this good for now?

[willekeurig]

Ugh, don't be EIE. EIE = not cool. They like furry dice, wunderbaums and pink glitter heels. I know because my mom is one.
Don't be ILI either, those are super awkward. Here's a picture (though most of them wear black, supposedly dramatic looking sleeved capes with weird patterns on them and not metal t shirts): http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p1g38XhiPB...k-or-emo-1.jpg

IEI is good. IEIs are cute and nice. Also, they're the only type that gets to write poems and be male, so you better be IEI unless you want to give up your hobby.

[Narc]

I liked the poems -- meaning there's a snowball's chance in hell that you're alpha.

To know whether you're my dual (ILI,) activity (LIE,) or mirage (IEI,) I'd need to interact with you a little while longer... (My gf of the past year was a mirage relation… She'd probably tell you the same thing but mean something different.) Benefactor is also possible.

Based on what's here, my best guesses (in order) are: 1.) ILI 2.) IEI 3.) LIE, SEE 5.) EIE … Do you want to get the typing exactly right, or is this good for now?

Aren't you meant to be EIE?

[ashlesha]

What tipped you off to a decision?

the conversation with rat in the hell thread. i started reading it with the idea that you're both iei but something seemed off about that. both comparing the two of you and seeing the way you interacted with eachother.

then this looked like negativism:
"Make no mistake -- I'm not disagreeing with you, simply attempting to provide the negative to your positive. Get my drift?"

and things like this looked like dialectical-algorithmic cognition:
"Why not war in nature? A tension between opposites creates harmony."
"If you can see the cancer in your healthiness and the healthiness in your cancer then you've seen nature."

and then it all kind of fit together in my head, like how your expression of Ni seemed more...reasonable? and how careful and calculated you are in your self-presentation to the point where Fe could definitely be a base function.

[Reficulris]

the conversation with rat in the hell thread. i started reading it with the idea that you're both iei but something seemed off about that. both comparing the two of you and seeing the way you interacted with eachother.

then this looked like negativism:
"Make no mistake -- I'm not disagreeing with you, simply attempting to provide the negative to your positive. Get my drift?"

and things like this looked like dialectical-algorithmic cognition:
"Why not war in nature? A tension between opposites creates harmony."
"If you can see the cancer in your healthiness and the healthiness in your cancer then you've seen nature."

and then it all kind of fit together in my head, like how your expression of Ni seemed more...reasonable? and how careful and calculated you are in your self-presentation to the point where Fe could definitely be a base function.

I agree with Lungs; you remind me of my ex-wife who was EIE. The carefull but seemingly effortless moderation of self presentation is similar as is the fact that you sometimes come across as "rational" (in the collogual non socionics sense) where you are probably a highly emotional creature! Also, the humor, dry sarcastic somewhat dark but still playfull is similar. I'd buy EIE over IEI for you anytime.

[Iris]

Ugh, don't be EIE. EIE = not cool. They like furry dice, wunderbaums and pink glitter heels. I know because my mom is one.

Dang it, @Agarina Usually you are right about things.

[woofwoofl]

@McBain I read the rat thread a while ago and something clicked and I think ILI's a good call. My brain's exhausted now, and so is my body, and right now I'm just trying to eat food so that I can make myself shit out all the pizza I ate hours back, so I can get to the rationale later sometime.

[Amber]

Read Psychological Types. It's online. There's a huuuge difference between Ni and Fe doms.

Socionics peoples will disagree with me but basically I think Socionics offers a more elaborate framework to put Jung's IEs into.

yeah, one good thing socionics did was to consider the idea of subtypes in order to escape excessively rigid and artificially constructed categories or "Ti traps". They talk of stuff like ILE- 2Ne, ILI 2 Te or EII 2 Fi. If things in reality were so simple and differences super clear-cut, the guy wouldn´t have much reason to be confused between 2 or 3 types. Truth to be told, his type still doesn´t seem super- obvious to me ...I didn´t read all the updates, that´s also true.

[InvisibleJim]

As requesterised I think EII