At what point would you give up on life?

[The Exception]

I hope this question isn't too morbid, it's just something I'm curious about. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suicidal or depressed, I generally love life and would like to prolong my life span as long as possible. However, I can think of situations that if I had to endure it for an extended amount of time with no hope of improvement, I would seriously contemplate suicide.

For example, if I had a terrible disease where I was in excruciating pain constantly and no medications helped. Or if I had severe dementia and I had to depend on others to do even the most basic tasks and I could no longer make independent decisions on my own. Or maybe if I was imprisoned for the rest of my life with no chance of parole or ever escaping, after awhile I'd likely go crazy and just want to end things.

As a kid, I used to think, that I would want to prolong my life as long as possible, regardless of the situation. Living is living. Now that I'm older, it's more important to live with dignity and to have a sense of hope. If I am missing these things I do not want to live.

For you, are there situations where death would be preferable to enduring life? What are these situations?

Once again, sorry if I offended people by asking such a morbid question. I am curious.

[Tonatiuh]

Don't worry about it.

[Singu]

When I want to escape everything. Whenever I'm feeling low enough to commit suicide.

[Exodus]

I wouldn't commit suicide but if I was on life support and either in excruciating pain or barely able to function with not much longer to live or little hope of recovering then I would want to be taken off of it.

[Chae]

It's not morbid or offensive, but something legit and essential to talk about.

Giving up is not a choice in my eyes. It's more of a necessity under severe circumstances. My equation is that when my suffering exceeds that of the ones left behind mourning (or other damage), it's worth it. I hope it never goes that far and I'd doubt I could be irresponsible like this. I'm not mentally strong enough to kill myself either, that's another part of responsibility toward myself.

I think the body shuts down when it needs to, every other threat is a challenge to survival and I would take this chance as long as it doesn't go against the equation.

[The Reality Denialist]

Dementia takes care of itself. I think it is actually reasonably easy for the sufferer when you go pass certain stage.

I still can not comprehend situation where you become completely cognitively dull.

Pain? Hard to say how far you can go.

Life in prison? If some day internet access comes available it wouldn't be so bad.

[mclane]

I don't want to live all my life in a world like this. I know what has to happen, will happen, so I'm not worried. But I am growing impatient...

[Muddy]

I have no interest in living past my 70s so probably then I guess. I'd rather die while I'm still something then live out life feeble and pathetic.

[ApeironStella]

Probably if it was some sort of torture with no end in sight. Torture as in physical and psychological. Unless I don't end up in some psychopaths basement with really no chance to run away or lived through so many false hopes there, until I seriously feel like I don't have smallest chance to change my situation (which would include a possibly catatonic state before that) I don't think that I would really be able to do such a thing, tbh. I might be a bitter and cynical person inside but I also latch onto every single thread of hope until my sense of reality would be absolutely broken.

So, tortured to insanity is only way I can really see it happening. (Or, as others mentioned, a lethal illness with unbearable pain and only kept alive by some machines. That would be about same at 'having hope' category.)

My body automatically freezes before I can actually hurt it any possible way (well, maybe other than biting my hand when really angry, but not enough to draw blood) so suicide would require something to break past that.

[DirectorAbbie]

At what point would you give up on life?

Hm. I can't imagine ever doing that. And I think I have a fairly good imagination. And whenever presented with an absolute statement, my first impulse is to contradict it with some loophole.

Would I give up because my mind or body is falling apart from old age? That would be like sitting down and crying a few yards from the finish line because your legs got tired.

Would I give up because of being in excruciating pain? In the moment, I might want to die, but that wouldn't mean giving up on life.
The difference is like the difference between eggs to potatoes versus okra to nothing. If fed okra, I would give up and have nothing. If fed eggs, I would accept it but wish I were eating potatoes. But hours after the meal, the taste will have gone away and it will only matter whether I ate.
But I think I would view most pain as a trial to overcome, and a scar as a story.
"My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience." -James 1:2-3

Emotional pain would be harder to deal with than physical, but I think my reaction would be similar in that I might want to die, but that wouldn't mean giving up on life.

I don't think I'm capable of giving up on life. Maybe because my life isn't my own, I won't die until it's time, and if I haven't died yet it means there's something in store in my future that I won't want to miss.

One thing that might bring me close to giving up on life would be rape, as I would feel defiled and ruined. But even then, I don't think God would let me feel that way for more than an hour or so.

For you, are there situations where death would be preferable to enduring life?

Oh, yeah, plenty. Politics mostly.

[DirectorAbbie]

Dementia takes care of itself. I think it is actually reasonably easy for the sufferer when you go pass certain stage.

Yeah.

Life in prison?

I think I could handle that pretty well. Might be interesting.

I don't want to live all my life in a world like this. I know what has to happen, will happen, so I'm not worried. But I am growing impatient...

I know that life in this world is only momentary compared to my eternity on the new Earth. That's why death looks good to me. I see a stupid law and know that won't happen in the new Earth.

[Pallas]

Never. If you lose your mind somehow that's not you, and me with my mind would take anything the world could throw at me. Life is life, it's good even when it's horrible. I'd still want to live with unbearable pain or being tortured to insanity. I've had both of those before and am pretty close to having both right now and I still want to live. I want to exist, that's all. About 2 1/2 years ago I was in another very intense situation and pretty much weighing all of the various options for what happens after death, I decided Hell was better than nonexistence, and also very legitimately thought eternal recurrence was better than nonexistence, and of course super boring angels-and-harps Heaven was better than nonexistence. I also think Buddha is the world's most successful troll at this point. "To not feel pain, you have to not feel pleasure and to not exist!" followed by the direct admission, often swept to the side, that his teachings are lies-to-children. Who wants to not feel pleasure and not exist? It's a reductio ad absurdum, you have to accept pain as part of life, but people are so afraid of being "unenlightened" that they take it seriously despite everything else.

[ouronis]

Nonstop mind-controlling pain or uncontrollable mental impulses would probably make me do myself in. As long as I'm in relative conscious control of myself and can arrange my mind, I doubt I will seriously want to die.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I don't know i'm always so much stronger than I realize. i survived being cruelly bullied in school- being sent away from home, being molested while the other person said creepy hannibal-ish things, being ridiculed by so many people... having people try to fuck with my head to get me to feel like shit for their own amusement. Having a horseshoe thrown at my head and other large objects.

And i haven't cut my wrists yet.

An actual loss of too many tangible Te resources might do it tho tho like 'what's the point anyway' but I don't see that happening. I just don't know unless it actually happens. i've had a rough life but i have so much to be thankful for as well.

[Chae]

I don't want to live all my life in a world like this. I know what has to happen, will happen, so I'm not worried. But I am growing impatient...

Oh man :/ Change yourself, not the world, then you survive or live forever metaphorically. What we are is what we see in the world.

Other than that... where's yer usual strength and fortitude? I expected a badass reply from someone like you. Where the fuq is Bruce Willis now? Awaken him again! *Edna Mode voice* Fight! Wiiin!!

[Attis]

Pretty close to it already.

[Exodus]

Never. If you lose your mind somehow that's not you, and me with my mind would take anything the world could throw at me. Life is life, it's good even when it's horrible. I'd still want to live with unbearable pain or being tortured to insanity. I've had both of those before and am pretty close to having both right now and I still want to live. I want to exist, that's all. About 2 1/2 years ago I was in another very intense situation and pretty much weighing all of the various options for what happens after death, I decided Hell was better than nonexistence, and also very legitimately thought eternal recurrence was better than nonexistence, and of course super boring angels-and-harps Heaven was better than nonexistence.

Keep going

I also think Buddha is the world's most successful troll at this point. "To not feel pain, you have to not feel pleasure and to not exist!" followed by the direct admission, often swept to the side, that his teachings are lies-to-children. Who wants to not feel pleasure and not exist? It's a reductio ad absurdum, you have to accept pain as part of life, but people are so afraid of being "unenlightened" that they take it seriously despite everything else.

Nonexistence is an illusion. When people speak of nirvana or extinguishing oneself they mean that you lose yourself and gain the one who lives and does not die. There is no pleasure greater than this.

[Olimpia]

When I first wanted to comment on here, I was about to say something along the lines of: "When I feel like it is too late to fulfill my dreams; or when everything has failed and there is nothing left anymore; etc."

But then I came to the conclusion that there is always a light at the end of the tunnel. It is never too late, there is always hope. Things can always be better than they are now. You can have new dreams, new aspirations, new things to look forward to. Your circumstances change, and you can change as well; nothing is set in stone. You do not have to hold unto something outdated. You should look ahead, instead of back. Don't let your fears, doubts, worries, and past failures keep you chained to the ground. Realize those chains are made out of smoke; intangible. Of course your past has an influence on your present situation, but you don't have to make it your future.

[flames]

I reached that point once (don't want to talk more about it) but now I am here and loving every moment of life, even the frustrating parts. Things can always improve, always.

[isptn]

When life has been not worth living for long enough to have exhausted all options and to be reasonably certain the situation isn't going to resolve with time.

[strangeling]

Being trapped in a twisted bureaucracy that treats people as things and encourages and rewards toxic leadership. So the military.

[The Reality Denialist]

Being trapped in a twisted bureaucracy that treats people as things and encourages and rewards toxic leadership. So the military.

Being North Korean? I'd have life threatening issues with that system.

[End]

Well, I got this one from a VN but one of the things it kept on harping on in regards to the people in the military was "make your death count". I must completely agree with that sentiment. If my death will "count" in my eyes then that's when I pull the trigger and sacrifice myself. Suicide is for cowards, but if your life purchases something precious then it's not a suicide but rather a "heroic" death worthy of song and praise. Thus, that's my baseline. If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna purchase something precious with my life. I can only hope in my wildest dreams to be but a pale imitation of my ultimate role model, who purchased eternal life and salvation for us all upon the cross...

[wacey]

Keep going



Nonexistence is an illusion. When people speak of nirvana or extinguishing oneself they mean that you lose yourself and gain the one who lives and does not die. There is no pleasure greater than this.

It doesn't last though, only glimpes, and then back to the regular scheduled programming.

[strrrng]

I've given up on life before without committing suicide. futility is ultimately something that shouldn't be embraced in that way. that's why camus said every day you don't commit suicide is a good day.

[strangeling]

I've given up on life before without committing suicide. futility is ultimately something that shouldn't be embraced in that way. that's why camus said every day you don't commit suicide is a good day.

Sounds a bit too fatalistic?

Being North Korean? I'd have life threatening issues with that system.

Yeah...they probably have a lot of similarities.

[strrrng]

Sounds a bit too fatalistic?

maybe, but I think the core intent is still redemptive. kind of like the ending of steppenwolf.

[huiheiwufhawriuhg]

I've gotten to that point once, when I was 17. I simply thought that my dreams and hopes wouldn't ever come true so I wanted to end it all. The truth however was that I had been a master of self pity and I had never actually tried to do anything to fullfill my extreme high ambitions, other than just complaining about how unfair and cruel the world was.
My attempt helped me to become stronger for a few years in my life, until an anxiety issues started and now I'm just too much of a scared wreck, trapped in nihilism and existencial doubt to do any harm to myself.

[Tallmo]

The question is difficult because no matter what we say now, the actual situation would be a different thing, it would change us and lead to unpredictable actions.

Somebody in this thread already mentioned the Steppenwolf (novel by Herman Hesse). Funny because I also came to think of the novel when I saw this thread. The novel is about a man who is unable to live life. He is disconnected from real life and he is painfully aware of it. At some point he decides that he has had enough and that he will commit suicide. So he is in a situation of being stuck and seeing no way forward in life. But just as he is on his way home to kill himself he meets a woman whom he starts talking to. She basically orders him to get his act together and stop feeling sorry for himself. She even makes fun of him. This is exactly what he needs. She is a personification of an inner figure that appears in the face of total despair. This opens up new possibilities and the man is able to carry on forward.

In Jungian psychology it is well-known that the development of consciousness happens with the crisis of the Ego. (Loosing your job, getting rejected by your community, failing marriage, serious illness etc). The ego gets such a shock that deeper layers of the psyche come into daylight. The difficult thing is that the first area that comes into consciousness is the shadow, meaning that the person becomes painfully aware of all the things in him that are underdeveloped, dark and morally inferior. This worsens the crisis. So if the outer problem was that you failed your career or whatever, and of course that felt pretty horrible in itself, now you have to deal with your own repressed garbage in addition to that. I think this is the reason why seemingly small problems in life can lead to suicide. It's only after a person has had a prolonged inner struggle with the shadow (and maybe integrated and accepted some of it) that things move forward again. But not all people are able to do this. There is a lot of information on this topic in analytical psychology.

[Myst]

Losing all of the main senses of the five senses would have me pretty close to it.

[Myst]

The question is difficult because no matter what we say now, the actual situation would be a different thing, it would change us and lead to unpredictable actions.

Somebody in this thread already mentioned the Steppenwolf (novel by Herman Hesse). Funny because I also came to think of the novel when I saw this thread. The novel is about a man who is unable to live life. He is disconnected from real life and he is painfully aware of it. At some point he decides that he has had enough and that he will commit suicide. So he is in a situation of being stuck and seeing no way forward in life. But just as he is on his way home to kill himself he meets a woman whom he starts talking to. She basically orders him to get his act together and stop feeling sorry for himself. She even makes fun of him. This is exactly what he needs. She is a personification of an inner figure that appears in the face of total despair. This opens up new possibilities and the man is able to carry on forward.

In Jungian psychology it is well-known that the development of consciousness happens with the crisis of the Ego. (Loosing your job, getting rejected by your community, failing marriage, serious illness etc). The ego gets such a shock that deeper layers of the psyche come into daylight. The difficult thing is that the first area that comes into consciousness is the shadow, meaning that the person becomes painfully aware of all the things in him that are underdeveloped, dark and morally inferior. This worsens the crisis. So if the outer problem was that you failed your career or whatever, and of course that felt pretty horrible in itself, now you have to deal with your own repressed garbage in addition to that. I think this is the reason why seemingly small problems in life can lead to suicide. It's only after a person has had a prolonged inner struggle with the shadow (and maybe integrated and accepted some of it) that things move forward again. But not all people are able to do this. There is a lot of information on this topic in analytical psychology.

That shock the ego receives can be a positive one too, it seems. (That is, not necessarily things like losing a job but something positive.)

[Tallmo]

That shock the ego receives can be a positive one too, it seems. (That is, not necessarily things like losing a job but something positive.)

I don't think so, because the nature of the ego is to be able to do things, use willpower and skills. If the ego gets hurt through something negative and cannot function then psychic energy starts to seek new paths and consciousness expands.

[rat200Turbo]

The fact of the afterlife would give me sufficient hope not to kill myself in the imprisonment scenario.

[Jeremy8419]

Having been down this road to the full extent, I can say that it not depression which causes suicide. Depression may lead up to the circumstances with suicide, but self-preservation kicks in, which is instinctual. Following such, the mind goes into fight or flight mode. With both options perceived as being removed, suicide happens. Much like the quadruped herbivores knowingly running off a cliff, the body destroys itself to escape the predators. At such point, what remains of the mind must fight the body, before the mind disappears into hell.

[Myst]

I don't think so, because the nature of the ego is to be able to do things, use willpower and skills. If the ego gets hurt through something negative and cannot function then psychic energy starts to seek new paths and consciousness expands.

But some things can overwhelm the ego and those don't have to be negative things is what I'm saying.

[rat200Turbo]

What is the imprisonment scenario?

He mentioned it in the OP.