Type 6 or 8? Can't choose - jessica129's enneagram
I'm new to Enneagram and am having a hard time choosing between 6 or 8. The thing that's confusing me is that a counter-phobic 6 can look very much like an 8. What are some sure ways to tell the difference between the two? What are the motivations behind both? Anyone have personal opionions as to what my type might be?
isn't 7 an option for you? you are in the military.
And it sucks the life out of me. Maybe when I'm not forced to act like a robot, I could consider 7 but not now, I'm too depressed.
Well the main difference is that 8s reject weakness and must be strong while 6s reject danger and must be secure. 8s can be reckless while 6s would never. 6s can be dependent while 8s would never. Both 8s and cp6s need to be strong in response to an inherently chaotic and dangerous reality. 8s rarely doubt they have the capability to handle danger while 6s need to be prepared. 8s may be caught off-guard but usually handle the situation as it comes without issue. 6s are almost never caught off-guard, but they can really be thrown off if they are. 8s usually 'know' they're tough. 6s sometimes feel that they must try to be tough. 6s value clarity over strength, and 8s value strength over clarity.
In the vibe sense 8s have more a of physicality to them. 6s are typically sharper than 8s in the sense that they're more vigilant.
Thanks Azeroffs, that's a good description. I think I'm a 6 that wishes I were an 8.
What comes to mind from a personal perspective is that 8s lack the nervous/tense/anxious energy that I often have, and take things with greater calm. The constant worrying and thinking about future situations in particular might be one of the greatest differences. This is something that you take for granted if either you don't share your world with someone else, or you're just used to being that way.
The other day while I was walking to my job there was a girl walking in front of me on her cellphone. I was kind of impressed at first at how carefree she was about her surroundings, and how she was so disconnected because of chatting on her phone. Then I thought to myself what I would do if some goon in the area attacked her for whatever reason, since she seemed in such a vulnerable state. I was thinking about what I would do, and after some brainstorming reached a conclusion that I would probably do a choke hold on the guy and tell her to dial 911, and that made me calm for some reason, as if I'm already prepared. All of this happened in a few seconds of thinking and it was very natural to me, and then I thought to myself that this must not be normal, lol, and it probably isn't.
Are you talking about physical and emotional dependency?Originally Posted by Azeroffs
That's how I am. I also tend to be very much attracted to them.
Idk what you mean by physical dependence, but an 8 would refuse to be dependent in any capacity as far as I can think. If they were, they'd likely be in denial about it or be in a position where they have no other way around it. Of course healthy 8s can accept some level of dependence insofar as it isn't considered to be a weakness.
6s can be reckless. what the fuck is wrong with you? and 6s can be physical too. it's over the top. and they're annoying. but guess what, 8s can be annoying too! on purpose!
also 6s can be caught off guard because they get vigilant about one thing then miss the other thing.
8s can be dependent. i don't know where the fuck u get these ideas from.
well don't act like a fucking robot. claim yourself back. the world is your oyster.And it sucks the life out of me. Maybe when I'm not forced to act like a robot, I could consider 7 but not now, I'm too depressed.
8s can be paranoid, but they're not hell nervous all the time. and when they are nervous they seem somewhat child-like. like they're a fragment of a person.
i'd say it's more likely a 6 given those two choices. i'm not even sure you're counterphobic. you're just not 13.
1 question. do u remember a time of pivot in your younger life - say about 7 - where you realised something about yourself.
look back in time and see if there's anything you're aware/not aware of, and look for any biases in u.
why not u wish you were a panda. they are endangered. people take good care of them.
an ego fixation should be not something u wish for. it is a disability.
find yourself, and the ego doesn't matter.
Is that a stress point at 1?And it sucks the life out of me. Maybe when I'm not forced to act like a robot, I could consider 7 but not now, I'm too depressed.
that could actually be straight 6. they're aware of being "loyalists" and being part of the system and shit. and they fight it or accept it.
You're going to have to dumb it down a little, i'm new to this stuff.
I see.
http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/intro.asp#directions
When thinking to a time when you were not doing so well, do you relate more to:
Level 7: Fearing that they have ruined their security, they become panicky, volatile, and self-disparaging with acute inferiority feelings. Seeing themselves as defenseless, they seek out a stronger authority or belief to resolve all problems. Highly divisive, disparaging and berating others
or
Level 7: Defying any attempt to control them, become completely ruthless, dictatorial, "might makes right." The criminal and outlaw, renegade, and con-artist. Hard-hearted, immoral and potentially violent.
The bolded one
lol
e6
also 6s can be caught off guard because they get vigilant about one thing then miss the other thing.They were comparisons. I never said 6s don't get caught off guard, but they are less likely than 8s because they are more cautious. I said 8s can be dependent, but dependence is something they won't accept when it implies weakness. 6s, otoh, commonly feel like they need support.
What makes you think so?
Cautiousness doesn't mean people don't get caught off guard. It means that they're weary and "ready for attack".
When people don't accept things, and become blind, like an 8 IS PRONE TO DOING, they can become dependent without realising. BUT JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T ADMIT TO THEMSELVES THAT THEY ARE DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE NOT.
So at the end of the day, 8s can be dependent, yes. Also 8s line to 2 can make them more than a little dependent.
I'm still feeling my way forward in both Socionics and Enneagram, but so far I'd say that the ideas that 8's are sort of always super tough and never dependent at all, and that SLEs and LSIs are similar--like they're iron fortresses of human beings--are misleading, oversimplified, and stereotypical.
I see plenty of chinks in the armor, let's put it that way, and maybe it's just because of my own personality or mode of being, but those chinks, those vulnerabilities, questions, needs, anxieties, draw me in.
That said, Jessica, I haven't had a lot of interaction with you but you vibe a little more strongly as a 6 for me. Nothing to put much stock in, though. In general I experience people along the 6-7-8 range as just that, a range.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
This is why I get along so well with Beta NF's and Beta's in general. They understand SLE's and LSI's and aren't so easily intimidated as other people are. They actually take the time to get to know the person behind the front and that's what a lot of us need, I think. I think I've settled on 6w7.
I think the bold parts of this description are good and well said.
Also one thing to note is both 6's and 8's are part of the intimacy triad, concerning issues of trust.
6's don't trust people out of an anxiety and uncertainty, to them its a mental game.... is this person really legitimate? Inside a 6's head you'd likely hear a sort of indecisive unsure back and forth, worrying and questioning over whether this person is trustworthy. This vigilant thinking in a way helps ensure their security and meet their root desire. They just want to feel safe and secure and free from worry.
8's don't trust people out of a fear of being controlled or manipulated, to them its a territory thing.... is this person really my ally or am I being used? Inside an 8's head you'd likely hear a sort of power game going on. Instinctively dissecting any action that gave the impression of betrayal or a personal agenda against them. They test people for their loyalty. They are more physical and action oriented than thinking oriented. This constant monitoring of allies and enemies keeps the eight secure from being used or taken advantage of.
An interesting thing about 8's is that sometimes this paranoia of being controlled extends so far that in fact it alienates people, drives them against the over-controlling personality of the 8, and confirms the 8's suspicions.
In a sense 6's are after that safe feeling of security and mental clarity that comes with it.
8's are after power over themselves, to not be dominated and used by an outside source
The 4 (The individualist) is also an intimacy triad type, wanting trust, in order to be themselves and not feel ashamed of it
One is thinking, one is instinct, and one is feeling
their are trust issues of anxiety/thought
trust issues of shame/feeling
trust issues of instinct/anger
Where does the sixes fear come from? What sort of upbringing makes them this way? Apparently something really bad must have happened to me that I can't seem to remember...it only makes sense or i wouldn't be so paranoid about everything and everyone and my relationships wouldn't all be sabotaged. Projection is a bitch.
Does Enneagram theory hold that personality comes from environment, upbringing? I found a very brief discussion here:
http://www.enneagramcentral.com/Expl...ureNurture.htm
I tend to see personality as far more inborn than environmentally determined.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
I was thinking of a discrete extreme situation rather than a constant behavioral tendency, its also hard to say what an e8 is thinking because e8's are instinctive, its more like something they don't over analyze but just experience. Mainly I was using the example as a contrast, more than a description for e8 types. Most often e8's aren't paranoid and analyzing their environments, most of that stuff is already packed into a foundation of security they have about themselves and their lives, you usually don't really see the fear in an e8 until that sense of security is shattered.
All intensity triad members are like this.... you don't actually see their trust issues and insecurities until they get pushed out of their comfort zone and then it become apparent because mostly these types orient themselves into positions of security and confidence.
Most e8 I expect wouldn't identify with this unless they are currently out of their comfort zone.
e8's aren't afraid of people in a timid hide under the bed sheets kind of way, e8's fear is shown in aggression usually. Plus its not fear as much as mistrusting other people, not wanting to be taken advantage of and used. They want control over themselves and their lives.
For this example I was thinking more along the lines of a leader or something that gets into power (e8's being the leader personality) and then a lot of people support him but slowly people begin to complain and he feels like people are turning against him and becomes more tyrannical and controlling until eventually this makes his paranoid fantasy comes true and people really do hate him, but not for the reasons he thinks, its because he made it so by not trusting them. This general tendency to squeeze the life out of something in order to protect it is something e8's are known for. It more of an unhealthy pitfall of the personality than how they act in normal operation though.
Yea this is e8, and its actually this trait that makes them good leaders, because there are a lot of people with a different world view that you either are controlled by someone or you are controlling them. e8's are more individualistic, they simply want to do without being controlled or controlling. To the e8 its liberating, to the other types looking at the e8 they think "wow he is so confident he is in control". And typical their individualistic nature finds them in positions of power support by those other types, which can be a bad thing if they let it get to their head, because then the people will re-assess the worth of the e8 in control and decide he is not in control. Power given by groups rise and fall and is incredibly unreliable, but power that the individual possesses is much more stable.
anyways yea the basic desire of the e8 is just to be in control of themselves and not dominated and controlled, they fear this and it leads them to act the way they do, at best being self-confident, heroic, and great leaders and at worst being sociopathic, power tripping, egomaniac, antisocial criminals.
i feel like you didn't read all of what I said. I said 6s can get caught off guard, but are more likely to be prepared, and therefore less likely to b caught off guard. And, I said 8s may be dependent, but that if they were they would likely be in denial or have no way out of the situation (although they might die trying depending on the circumstance). Also, I had mentioned that healthy eights may be more accepting of some level of dependence as long as it isn't in weakness. It would probably be more accurate to say that healthy 8s can be accepting of interdependence.
That's very true.
ESTj's try to be/look approachable. Being Extraverts, they remain positive relations with people and objects...that definition of E8 does not relate to ESTj well.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 12-15-2010 at 05:41 AM.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I don't think the fear is dependent on your upbringing, but in my case I do remember well when I became counter-phobic... (Even saying that I "fear" makes me cringe a little). That was a big moment growing up, something just "snapped." I don't know if it was going to happen anyway later on though.
I think that's more related to Fe role.
Aren't counterphobic sixes defined by charging head-on against whatever they fear?
What do these signs mean—, etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason,
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function(extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
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