After meeting Starfall again, I can say I cannot see her as any sort of rational. And she knows herself pretty well I think, at least as far as personality type. I think IEI is the correct typing. I am very skeptical about alternate typings because they just dont work when interacting face to face.
Look at her choice in men. Enough said.
(I<3sf)
IEI yup
@Cassandra you were cherrypicking the reasoning for ESI. (Nothing personal, I just read that post in the thread where you reasoned for it)
I think you are IEE-Fi but I would need to see a picture to confirm it.
Who, me?Originally Posted by mclane
If you meant someone else, you should mention or quote them to be clear.
@Starfall .Who, me?
If you meant someone else, you should mention or quote them to be clear.
At least one thing I consistently notice over time with Starfall is totally incongruent with ESI: She has a hard time standing up for herself.
IEI is fine. Not much Fe on display, but that seems to be the case for quite a few IEIs.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
What? She's consistently standing up for herself in this thread. If you want an example of someone who has a hard time standing up for themselves: cassandra.
Last edited by maniac; 02-06-2017 at 08:23 PM.
Because my Se is weak.Haha.
But yeah okay, I got the memo.
I'm so wrong for mistyping someone that famous on this forum, I should be ashamed of myself, I am so naive and arrogant, it's bad.
Can we move on now?
I think Starfall is IEI IMO. She is definitely not ESI, no hint ofPoLR at all. Any difference between her and other IEIs in the forum is because she is sp/sx. On the surface, I do not appear like a typical IEE because I am sp/sx, but I am still IEE.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
What doesShe is definitely not ESI, no hint of
And how would you type lungs, btw?
What does
And how would you type lungs, btw?
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
Im not shaming you for anything. Im just using you as a contrast to show that Starfall clearly has no problems with asserting herself.Because my Se is weak.
But yeah okay, I got the memo.
I'm so wrong for mistyping someone that famous on this forum, I should be ashamed of myself, I am so naive and arrogant, it's bad.
Can we move on now?
Well, its known that almost all insecure/codependent/borderline woman tend to fall towards abusive guys in general. Now, does that mean they are IEI, really ? I wouldn't disagree that most IEI descriptions sound like some troubled emo kid who is cutting herself but should choice in men that be what we type people by ?
It takes a better grasp on Se to be sufficiently "aggressive", assertive, defend one's (or other's) interests, and so forth.
IEIs value those qualities, but because they have weak (1D) Se, they are actually insufficient at them, and require outside help from people to "stick up for them".
And also, Te seeking (just as PoLR) can be "lazy" without getting clear directions, for it is weak (1D).
Valuing being productive and finding a fault with "laziness" is rather Te valuing:
And generally, whatas Suggestive Function: The individual is attracted to people seen as knowledgeable, as well as truthful and willing to share that knowledge, in matters seen as interesting and useful to the individual towards achieving productivity and efficiency. (...) The individual tends to neglect to think about the productivity of his actions and unconsciously relies on others to give him directions and advice about the best, most productive ways of doing things. He has difficulties measuring how much work he has done, whether it is sufficient, and how much it is actually worth. The individual admires people who are aware of the productivity of their actions and are always trying to do something rational and worthwhile.
Perceives information about animate and inanimate objects' physical activity, deeds, and actions/activities. This perception provides the ability to make sense of what is going on. It defines the awareness of and ability or inability to think up ways of doing things, distinguish rational actions from irrational ones, and the ability or inability to direct others' work. When this element is in the leading position, the individual has the ability to plan his and others' work, understand the logicalness and illogicalness of processes, and correct the work activities of other people in accordance with this understanding. And the ability to apply personally and convey to others the most rational ways of doing things.(...) Since Te perceives objective, factual information outside the subject (external activity) and analyzes the rationale and functionality of what is happening or being done or said. "Quality" to a Te type is how well an object performs the functions for which it was made. A Te type can judge a person to be "effective" if he is able to achieve his purposes without wasting any energy or producing unwanted side effects. So Te types basically evaluate people and things using the same criteria.
I'm talking about everything I've discerned about her real life after years of chat conversations. I am sympathetic to her issues with asserting herself at work and in relationships. Getting into Internet arguments about personality types is probably not the same kind of transaction.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
ESE like my sister messy and volatile "The ESE is emotional and communicative. Knows how to lift the mood, to cheer up other people. Enjoys talking about his contacts and acquaintances. His emotions change sharply: at times he is lighthearted and friendly, other times he is hot-tempered and angry. Pays attention to manners and correctness of behavior of people around him.
"
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
you just contradicted yourself by saying not really when you just said you think that I do it myself? How can you pay attention without paying attention? Reality is your can't see yourself when you do something
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Nobody is taking it seriously... is that observation of behavior? You are not IEI according to my typing and I don't really care who agrees or disagrees with me
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
IEI. Merry Quadra > Serious Quadra. Irrational > Rational. She has a blithe, carefree orientation to life and the world that I don't think is consistent with Gamma's predilection to take life, the world, and human relations very earnestly and seriously. She would probably become very restless in the company of people who talk a lot about typical Gamma obsessions like economics, engineering, or history, or who are too earnestly invested in the functional aspects of the world and society. This sprightly sense of detachment from the mechanisms of the world is characteristic of IEIs. That's not to say IEIs can't take certain things very seriously (Ni-types tend to take existential issues more seriously than anyone else), but it's not earthbound seriousness. SLEs can give them a touchpoint to earth, but with more of a Devil-may-care orientation that doesn't feel as invested in a particular way of doing things. LIEs (or any rational type) are not able to be as nonchalant about things.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Starfall shaped my mental definition of IEI
I just don't get why people need to take it so personally when people have different frameworks for the theory.
Granted that doesn't have much point to call someone by three letters without specifiying the unique framework being used.
What a totally ignorant comment. Do you mean to imply sf has anyone of those mental health issues? How was I implying what you are saying ?
I was implying she has stated in the past she goes for Se types and has throughly described Se dom types in great detail over the many years she has a been a member here.
Absolutely you can type via choice in men as that is representative of informational elements in people and informational processing. Duh. Intertypes 101 you dick cheese.
And for Cass to chime in with a "like" for your asinine comment puts her down a peg in my books.
the woman in the video seemed ILI to me (??), are you like her in some way?
I "liked" his comment because he was pointing at exactly what I was thinking:
That just because you go for a certain type, doesn't mean they are your Dual (or have your Dual seeking function in their Ego).
It's what I call the "Duality fallacy": thinking someone must be your Dual because you feel attracted to them or because they are your "Soulmate".
Sure, Duality can play some role when it comes to what someone is attracted to; but at the end of the day, for most people their attraction pattern says much more about their Imago than their Dual. For a lot of people (possibly most), the Imago is not the same type as their Dual.
Most people don't end up with their Dual for many possible reasons... I have talked about it here.
Essentially, it is mainly about the Imago and Proximity whether you end up with your Dual or not.
I am pretty sure Starfall's Imago has Se in their Ego and is likely SLE – but I simply don't believe they are her Dual.
I'm pretty sure implying that she goes for Se types wouldnt need an expression of love to follow-up. It was quite clear that you were pointing out strange/abusive relationships in her past to justify her IEI typing. You are just back pedalling and trying to change the implication now that you've been called on it.
Last edited by Mr inappropriate; 02-07-2017 at 11:36 AM.
You have been espousing this imago idea since last summer. It's just internet pop psychology. Please quite trying to push your agenda.
How are you the self appointed expert on what most end up with? Seems like you are the one with the imagination here.Most people don't end up with their Dual for many possible reasons... I have talked about it here.
Essentially, it is mainly about the Imago and Proximity whether you end up with your Dual or not.
imago isnt real. You owe her an apology.I am pretty sure Starfall's Imago has Se in their Ego and is likely SLE – but I simply don't believe they are her Dual.
@wacey Instead of rude criticizing, make alternative statements to advance the issue instead.
What the actual fuck? Starfall and I discussed what I meant in chatbox later on and it was in no way like you are describing. It was exactly as I have previously stated. You are in a fantasy land, putting out words and intentions that are not there, nor were ever said by me, ie: "strange and abusive". Get a grip.
@Chae mind your own business. Not a single thing I said has been rude criticism. The only rude people here have been MR Inappropriate and Cass for supporting his statements.
If you have problems asserting yourself in public and not online its likely an image-thing (you don't want to risk others see you fail at asserting yourself or get the wrong idea of you because you get more nervous around REAL PEOPLE if you have some degree of social phobia) and not actually asserting yourself because she does it here. She has the skill/ability. I have no idea what this means in socionics, i dont believe in socionics. But in enneagram Starfall has a 8 fix probably, and Sis has a 9 (avoiding discomfort)
Call it something else, if you want. I think it is apparent that most people don't end up with their Dual, and have a certain "type" of person they keep going for.
That usually means someone who looks a certain way and/or is a certain Sociotype, etc.
Anyway, I don't see how I owe her an apology.
Technically she's been more rude to me...
Or do you want me to apologize for typing her as ESI also?
Anyhow, all of this is sort of getting out of hand. I knew it would turn out that way (it's a heated subject), but Starfall kept mentioning me in this thread, so I felt obliged to take a stand and explain myself. But obviously, it doesn't lead to anywhere, except to discord. I want to stress again how me typing someone a certain way is nothing personal.
P.S: You can believe someone who isn't your Dual is your soulmate. It happens all the time. I see Identicals claiming the other person is their "soulmate" (because they are in love and romantics). So, please don't just add "[/duality]" like that in a comment of mine. It's not what I meant and misconstruing what I said.
That's a good point. Her not asserting herself with "real people" and strangers, or co-workers whatever, could have something to do with her being Type 4 and SO blindspot etc.
Nope. Same applies to you.
No, let me rephrase. Everyone has the ability to assert themselves but its hard to do the assertion "for assertions sake" for some, like you. While people with social phobia can't let loose with people they are not close to, and aggression is a form of letting loose.
I don't see how Mr Inappropriate was being rude exactly?
He simply stated the truth. I don't want to air someone's dirty laundry or anything like that so I won't say too much, but most people who have tuned into the chat box regularly in the recent months or years will have heard plenty about Starfall's rough dating history and how that has impacted her.
P.S: What I could see as his "faux pas" is the fact he was being a bit too candid. I don't know whether Starfall has this policy of no one mentioning personal things she said in the chat box in the threads... If she doesn't, he didn't do anything wrong per se.
In "Sex, Love, and Your Personality", Mona Coates cites the five things she has come to believe are the basis of a good long term relationship. They are:
1. Compatible Love Maps, which basically include meeting your partner's expectations.
2. Good levels of psychological health.
3. Shared same intinctual subtypes (sx & sx, sp & sp, etc.)
4. Shared enneagram Harmonic Group.
5. Shared Enneagram line of integration/disintegration.
Because the last two conflict, you can't have all five. But "meeting your expectations" and "psychological health", she put on top.
I agree with her there.
My female IEI cousin married another IEI (a male), but they divorced when he decided he was gay. I thought he was gay from Day One, but she seemed blind to that aspect of him. She has since pursued other male IEI Identicals. I introduced her to a male SLE, and she said she admired what he had done with his life, but that doesn't seem to have affected the kind of guy she wants.
Still, the heart wants what it wants.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 02-07-2017 at 02:54 PM.
I think there are several people in this thread who have a difficult time asserting themselves -- their interactions are poorly calibrated, using way too much force, or way too little force, and they take things as a personal attack when there's no reason to. This is something I see sometimes in ethicals with weak Se. I see it in @Starfall, in @Maritsa, and in @Cassandra. (I'm not great at it either, but maybe it's not quite such a sore spot.) So it's interesting to see them in conflict over typing one another, when I see them as all having fairly similar types.
I don't put any great faith in socionics, and I put less in enneagram. The idea that Starfall could be seen as an 8 is pretty strange to me, though.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
Ghost can pick up on the fact that SF has more "energy", more "assertion", more "sass" and interprets it as 8 vs 9.
I'd rather interpret that as Se Creative, and her overall Enneagram gut fixation being 9 actually. That's why she'd rather not assert herself in certain situations.
Anyhow... I'll stand by her being ESI, and she'll stick with IEI (for she's been self-typing like that for a very long time – thanks to certain "experts", it looks like. I am not expecting her to just change her mind on that subject quickly, or at all. And I won't change my mind either. I've been re-thinking my typing of her, but I kept coming back to my main conclusion. So... there won't be any dissolution of the issue. All we can do is accept each other's viewpoints and put it to rest.)
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