Conflicting relations

[velveteen]

Do conflictors purposely play on your weaknesses? Or was this dude just psycho? Or both?

[Tigerfadder]

More info! Duals can too since they are strong where you are weak. Etc, it can be a play which was not intended that way.

[The Reality Denialist]

It is more like failure to recognize strong and weak spots which leads to escalating conflict without care from both parties.


For example SEE tends to resist all kinds of requirements from others. LIIs tend to think differently and don't get why someone resists reason in every possible imaginable way.
(This is different with ILEs and SEEs as both types are extremely non-conforming types in their own ways – they'll give a break)

[Number 9 large]

Do conflictors purposely play on your weaknesses? Or was this dude just psycho? Or both?

No its usually not intentional, it just looks that way because conflictors dont understand the reasons behind eachothers actions

[velveteen]

I think that maybe he did think he was helping me in his own warped way. He pointed out a lot of things about me, that I, myself, was already very aware of and didn't really need pointed out. He undermined my intelligence and refused to take my word for anything (lots of trust issues). Yet admittedly, at the same time he opened my mind and made me more aware of my own intentions and motivations, while not truly understanding my intentions and motivations himself. While his approach was harsh and insensitive, he actually helped me change in significant ways while emotionally bulldozing me lol.

Somewhere deep down I kept thinking he understood me all along just fine, but enjoyed messing with me/getting a rise out of me. Nothing really seemed to matter to him at all. And yet, knowing this, I was still very drawn to him and kept trying to get him to understand my intentions and reacting to his bs. It was some sadomasochistic shit. It was all very tiring and I ended the relationship because I couldn't fully trust him or myself around him. Now I'm just wondering if he was my conflictor... or if this was something else.

[velveteen]

No its usually not intentional, it just looks that way because conflictors dont understand the reasons behind eachothers actions

I actually did understand the reasons behind his actions, though. I do believe he was trying to help me where I was weak, I just didn't agree with his approach. And he either didn't understand the reasons behind my actions or he didn't trust them.

[velveteen]

And the crazy thing? At no point did either of us make our goddamn intentions clear. That would have been the smart thing to do. But it didn't even occur to me as I exasperatedly kept trying to explain myself... because he'd do something to set me off or vice versa.

[Number 9 large]

maybe im wrong, maybe its because conflictors do understand eachothers reasons, but dont trust them/and or devalue them

[The Reality Denialist]

I think understanding motivation is the key.

[Exodus]

It is more like failure to recognize strong and weak spots which leads to escalating conflict without care from both parties.

Yep. We try to apply our leading function to everything indiscriminately. This is painful for the vulnerable function which is both weak and unvalued.

I think that maybe he did think he was helping me in his own warped way. He pointed out a lot of things about me, that I, myself, was already very aware of and didn't really need pointed out. He undermined my intelligence and refused to take my word for anything (lots of trust issues). Yet admittedly, at the same time he opened my mind and made me more aware of my own intentions and motivations, while not truly understanding my intentions and motivations himself. While his approach was harsh and insensitive, he actually helped me change in significant ways while emotionally bulldozing me lol.

Somewhere deep down I kept thinking he understood me all along just fine, but enjoyed messing with me/getting a rise out of me. Nothing really seemed to matter to him at all. And yet, knowing this, I was still very drawn to him and kept trying to get him to understand my intentions and reacting to his bs. It was some sadomasochistic shit. It was all very tiring and I ended the relationship because I couldn't fully trust him or myself around him. Now I'm just wondering if he was my conflictor... or if this was something else.

This sounds like "Fe(Se) gone wrong". I've seen it before in Beta extroverts.

[velveteen]

This sounds like "Fe(Se) gone wrong". I've seen it before in Beta extroverts.

So he was either my conflicting partner or just really unhealthy? I mean, I'm not saying I was entirely mature, but I sure gained a lot more wisdom out of that relo than he did.

[User Name]

Here's a good example of how two Conflictors don't get each other's opinion (go directly to post #88).

You can clearly see a LII (me) that is trying to explain something to a SEE (@idontgiveaf), but the latter just seems not to get the point of the discussion (Ti Leading vs Ti PoLR). On the other hand, I'm not good at defending my opinion in ways other than logic, so I can't help (Se PoLR vs Se Leading).

[velveteen]

Here's a good example of how two Conflictors don't get each other's opinion (go directly to post #88).

You can clearly see a LII (me) that is trying to explain something to a SEE (@idontgiveaf), but the latter just seems not to get the point of the discussion (Ti Leading vs Ti PoLR). On the other hand, I'm not good at defending my opinion in ways other than logic, so I can't help (Se PoLR vs Se Leading).

Thanks for the example. It is actually excruciating observing how something so simple could be misconstrued.

When I communicated with who I think was my conflict partner, I was constantly trying to make him understand other people and their internal worlds better so he would stop constantly jumping to conclusions. Meanwhile, he kept trying to get me to be less contemplative and more productive. He misunderstood me when I tried to explain these people to him and urging him to see the bigger picture. He thought I was defending them because I had the same intentions and motivations as them. I have tried to improve relations with this guy, but we keep falling into this loop. Either he has deep seated trust issues that I no longer can be bothered addressing or he's my conflict partner.

[Adam Strange]

I was sitting on an airplane during a late night flight, and the guy across the aisle looked exactly like me when I was 30. His companion was a tall, willowy blonde who was writing journal entries in the smallest script possible by the overhead light.
I quietly watched the guy for a while until I was sure he was LIE. He never looked at me, but rather spent his time either dozing or closely attending to the blonde. She, in turn, seemed distant and disappointed in him for some reason. I thought she might be an Alpha at first, because she had that fragile, eager beauty that SEI's sometimes have, but why would he be with his conflictor? That would only happen if both of them were disturbed.
Sometimes duals and conflictors look alike, so I watched her more closely, but the longer I watched her, the more SEI she seemed.
When the guy "rested', he did so with both hands gripping the top of the seat in front of him and his face buried in his arms. It was a look of hopeless despair if ever I saw one. Sometimes he would lean back in his seat with his eyes closed and the blonde would lean her back against him with an expression of distraction or concern.

After the plane landed and while we were waiting for the other passengers to deplane, I leaned over and lied to him. "Excuse me. I know someone who looks exactly like you, and I was just wondering what you do for a living?"
He gave me a bright, boyish grin and said "I work for a non-profit." Pause. "Sorry to disappoint."
"No, no...that's not a disappointment." and it was my turn to get my bags and go.

The cheerful "sorry to disappoint" is LIE to the core, but kind of abrupt to say to a stranger. Half the CEO's in the US are LIE's, but I doubt if many of them are running non-profits; Non-profit is against our religion. So I assume he is severely lost, wandering with his slightly less lost conflictor, and is not surprised that their relationship is a disappointment to both of them but is dealing with it, because disappointment is his life right now.

[Tigerfadder]

I was sitting on an airplane during a late night flight, and the guy across the aisle looked exactly like me when I was 30. His companion was a tall, willowy blonde who was writing journal entries in the smallest script possible by the overhead light.
I quietly watched the guy for a while until I was sure he was LIE. He never looked at me, but rather spent his time either dozing or closely attending to the blonde. She, in turn, seemed distant and disappointed in him for some reason. I thought she might be an Alpha at first, because she had that fragile, eager beauty that SEI's sometimes have, but why would he be with his conflictor? That would only happen if both of them were disturbed.
Sometimes duals and conflictors look alike, so I watched her more closely, but the longer I watched her, the more SEI she seemed.
When the guy "rested', he did so with both hands gripping the top of the seat in front of him and his face buried in his arms. It was a look of hopeless despair if ever I saw one. Sometimes he would lean back in his seat with his eyes closed and the blonde would lean her back against him with an expression of distraction or concern.

After the plane landed and while we were waiting for the other passengers to deplane, I leaned over and lied to him. "Excuse me. I know someone who looks exactly like you, and I was just wondering what you do for a living?"
He gave me a bright, boyish grin and said "I work for a non-profit." Pause. "Sorry to disappoint."
"No, no...that's not a disappointment." and it was my turn to get my bags and go.

The cheerful "sorry to disappoint" is LIE to the core, but kind of abrupt to say to a stranger. Half the CEO's in the US are LIE's, but I doubt if many of them are running non-profits; Non-profit is against our religion. So I assume he is severely lost, wandering with his slightly less lost conflictor, and is not surprised that their relationship is a disappointment to both of them but is dealing with it, because disappointment is his life right now.

You really got all that information from just observing someone and that they work none-profit? That he is severely lost? ;p

[Adam Strange]

You really got all that information from just observing someone and that they work none-profit? That he is severely lost? ;p

Creative Ni, dude.

[Exodus]

So he was either my conflicting partner or just really unhealthy? I mean, I'm not saying I was entirely mature, but I sure gained a lot more wisdom out of that relo than he did.

The name is a misnomer, just because you conflict with someone doesn't mean they are your conflictor. I gave what I think is the most likely interpretation, it's almost impossible to diagnose intertype relationships without knowing which types are involved.

[Rebelondeck]

Humans will exploit weaknesses of another regardless of intertype relations; it's one way an argument can be won or your complete destruction achieved. In a way, it's survival to the fittest, the most educated, the boldest, the most devious, etc.. Conflict-types see the world differently than you, which can have very positive effects; the greatest difficulty with them is that they're usually headed in different directions from where you're going, and neither one of you are likely to compromise unless one is in a very weak position. Hence, one can feel like they're being played in certain situations.

a.k.a. I/O

[Sol]

Do conflictors purposely play on your weaknesses?

Partly. Ego functions are often percieved as social role, the main competence, so people try to "make the life better" in their regions. Conflictor tries to help you or to make the life better near you. Revisor acts similarly. They are not your enemies - just want to fix problems which they see better than others. They may criticize you personally, but mostly want to help. While their help seems often as annoying, - they do it in wrong way, in wrong quantity.
The other problem. Conflictor activates your superego functions even when you talk to him. Those functions drain your psychic energy more than other, may disturb your concentration. Also your consciousness gets more info from superego, with your doubts and fears there - you may feel anxiety, uncertainty.
It's psychically hard to communicate with conflictors in informal IRL conditions. They may be cute people, do nothing bad to you and have no bad intentions - but you may suffer anyway. Also some may be aggressive to you - then they look "crazy" and annoying. You may communicate with conflictors not bad, but in formalized situations - keeping etiquette, norms of courtesy, offline, with subordination, etc. If you'll try to be friends with them then high chance to get conflict and psychic exhaustion.

I saw conflictors marriages - they never were ok, but could be stable. Saw kind of pals or partners. I suppose those people somehow keep the distance, while having respect. So I can't say that you can't deal with conflictors ok at all. It seems just harder than any other IR for informal IRL communication.

[Tallmo]

Conflict relations are extremely uncomfortable, but it doesn't show itself as open conflict. It's underlaying conflict.

I've never had any problems with LIEs.

I just met a LIE friend that I hadn't met for 7 years (my only LIE friend). It was nice, we had a couple of beers and talked about what's going on in life. As we both get older and more mature it gets easier to be together. One can just relax and take it for what it is and not expect too much and maybe not meet too often.

[velveteen]

Partly. Ego functions are often percieved as social role, the main competence, so people try to "make the life better" in their regions. Conflictor tries to help you or to make the life better near you. Revisor acts similarly. They are not your enemies - just want to fix problems which they see better than others. They may criticize you personally, but mostly want to help. While their help seems often as annoying, - they do it in wrong way, in wrong quantity.
The other problem. Conflictor activates your superego functions even when you talk to him. Those functions drain your psychic energy more than other, may disturb your concentration. Also your consciousness gets more info from superego, with your doubts and fears there - you may feel anxiety, uncertainty.
It's psychically hard to communicate with conflictors in informal IRL conditions. They may be cute people, do nothing bad to you and have no bad intentions - but you may suffer anyway. Also some may be aggressive to you - then they look "crazy" and annoying. You may communicate with conflictors not bad, but in formalized situations - keeping etiquette, norms of courtesy, offline, with subordination, etc. If you'll try to be friends with them then high chance to get conflict and psychic exhaustion.

I saw conflictors marriages - they never were ok, but could be stable. Saw kind of pals or partners. I suppose those people somehow keep the distance, while having respect. So I can't say that you can't deal with conflictors ok at all. It seems just harder than any other IR for informal IRL communication.

This is exactly what happened. Like exactly.

[Aylen]

This video is a good parody example of an ILE male and ESI female conflict.

The ILE keeps throwing out all these far out theories and ideas (Ne) that make the ESI feel uncomfortable and somewhat irritated. She is stubborn in her views and refuses to budge on anything. At the same time, the ESI throws out a bunch of Fi bombs at the ILE which in turn frustrates him. The ILE then tries to pick apart the ESI views with Ti, which she brushes aside. Both of their PoLRs ended up being hit and the conversation ends in a disaster.

[Adam Strange]

This video is a good parody example of an ILE male and ESI female conflict.



The ILE keeps throwing out all these far out theories and ideas (Ne) that make the ESI feel uncomfortable and somewhat irritated. She is stubborn in her views and refuses to budge on anything. At the same time, the ESI throws out a bunch of Fi bombs at the ILE which in turn frustrates him. The ILE then tries to pick apart the ESI views with Ti, which she brushes aside. Both of their PoLRs ended up being hit and the conversation ends in a disaster.

Man, I can't say how much I hate the presentation of this video. It was incredibly painful to listen to the whole thing. This is f*king heart attack music. If I had a button that would disintegrate the creators of this video, I'd be on that in a second.

Having said that, the guy is def ILE and the woman VI's ESI, and it actually perfectly illustrates conflict between ILE and ESI. Kudos to you, @Starfall, for watching the whole thing. You are stronger than I am, 'cause without your recommendation, I'd've bailed after five seconds and never seen it.

[silke]

I remember that video making its rounds on Facebook mbti groups as a show off the differences of Intuitive vs. Sensing types, which is a major divide there. This Se-SLE sx/so dude linked it to me as like the funniest thing he has ever watched. It feels contra-flow, something like 6 so/sp. I thought it also contained some Ti vs. Fi conflict on top of the intuitive/sensing thing in how he's objectively analyzing the situation, while she acts like that has nothing to do with her views.

[Adam Strange]

Really? It's honestly my favorite video on the internet right now.

Then you have a very high threshold for pain.

The only way I'd watch that again is with the sound off, which is a pity, because the conversations are so pitch-perfect. I've had exactly these conversations with both ILE's and ESI's.

I remember that video making its rounds on Facebook mbti groups as a show off the differences of Intuitive vs. Sensing types, which is a major divide there. This Se-SLE sx/so dude linked it to me as like the funniest thing he has ever watched. It feels contra-flow, something like 6 so/sp. I thought it also contained some Ti vs. Fi conflict on top of the intuitive/sensing thing in how he's objectively analyzing the situation, while she acts like that has nothing to do with her views.

It isn't funny. It is precisely true.

ILE: "OOOOhh, man, what if the dinosaurs had spaceships and avoided the meteor and are out there right now fighting aliens, who do you think would win? And what will happen when they come back to Earth?"

ESI: "I can't eat that steak. It is unethical to eat meat. Animals are people, too."

[silke]

It isn't funny. It is precisely true.

Dude this isn't true. This is fiction. Sometimes I think you really do need that Se-ESI to shoot you down from that 9th cloud you're on.

[Adam Strange]

Dude this isn't true. This is fiction. Sometimes I think you really do need that Se-ESI to shoot you down from that 9th cloud you're on.

Well, I'm doing my best to get there.

[Pink]

This video is a good parody example of an ILE male and ESI female conflict.



The ILE keeps throwing out all these far out theories and ideas (Ne) that make the ESI feel uncomfortable and somewhat irritated. She is stubborn in her views and refuses to budge on anything. At the same time, the ESI throws out a bunch of Fi bombs at the ILE which in turn frustrates him. The ILE then tries to pick apart the ESI views with Ti, which she brushes aside. Both of their PoLRs ended up being hit and the conversation ends in a disaster.

Omg. I love this

[wacey]

This video is a good parody example of an ILE male and ESI female conflict.



The ILE keeps throwing out all these far out theories and ideas (Ne) that make the ESI feel uncomfortable and somewhat irritated. She is stubborn in her views and refuses to budge on anything. At the same time, the ESI throws out a bunch of Fi bombs at the ILE which in turn frustrates him. The ILE then tries to pick apart the ESI views with Ti, which she brushes aside. Both of their PoLRs ended up being hit and the conversation ends in a disaster.

hahahahahahahahahahaha! jesus, its so funny when shit gets AWKWARD and everything you say just does NOT click. hahaha fuck.

this is basically the most true thing ive seen in so long. doesn't matter if its an intuitive/sensor- it works for any types that just dont see eye to eye and everything they use to try and explain themselves is taken wrong by the other person. i actually felt sad by the end of the video.

[wasp]

hahahaha I'm dying

[The Reality Denialist]

hahahaha I'm dying

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