Type genetics

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Type doesn't seem genetic at all.

alpha mom + alpha dad = 2 beta kids? LOL.

It's funny how varied people's relationships are with their parents. But I think maybe, you get your temperament from a combination of your parents... resulting in all types. But the actual type this turns out to be isn't genetic. Blah I forgot how basic genetics go but you get the idea.

[Khola aka Bee]

Both my parents are Gamma. My brother and I are Alpha. Bleh.

Mum: ESI
Dad: ILI
Bro: LII
Bee: SEI

Actually shit, take the middle letter and move it forward....lol.

[07490]

Type doesn't seem genetic at all.

alpha mom + alpha dad = 2 beta kids? LOL.

It's funny how varied people's relationships are with their parents. But I think maybe, you get your temperament from a combination of your parents... resulting in all types. But the actual type this turns out to be isn't genetic. Blah I forgot how basic genetics go but you get the idea.

YUp, I agree.

MOM-ISFj-FI
Dad-ENFj-NI
Oldest sister-ENTj-Ni
Older sister-INTj-Ne
ME-ENFj-Ni

[ZTCrawcrustle]

Type doesn't seem genetic at all.

alpha mom + alpha dad = 2 beta kids? LOL.

It's funny how varied people's relationships are with their parents. But I think maybe, you get your temperament from a combination of your parents... resulting in all types. But the actual type this turns out to be isn't genetic. Blah I forgot how basic genetics go but you get the idea.

Genetics does not work like that. A lot of it has to do with variation. If your mom kept spitting out kids like a candy machine at a fat kid's party, perhaps the greater majority of them would have been Alpha. If your parents are duals, then there is a greater chance for a lot of different combinations (if we think of type in terms of Jungian dichotomies, the overall ratios might not even be markedly Alpha, as there would be both inputs from every dichotomy).

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Yes my parents are duals.

[FDG]

There's the problem of recessive/dominant genes that can get in the way of easily determining type genetics. What I have observed is that some families can have a lineage of the same quadra if, for many generations, they tend to mate intra-quadra (so that both recessive and dominant traits cluster towards a given set of types). If, however, the lineage is mixed, the outcome seems to be mostly random.

Carrying this reasoning - assuming its correctness - to its end, would imply that if you suppose that intra-quadra relationships on average lead to better social outcomes, then families whose lineage is mostly intraquadral would end up being socially advantaged over the mixed ones. I haven't empirically tested this hypothesis, though; the risk of incurring in a confirmation bias is rather high.

[Gilly]

Dad- EII
Mother - LSE
Sister - Some kind of NF
Me - EIE

Grandfather (mother's side)- SEE
Grandmother - ESI probably

Grandfather (father's side) - SEI
Grandmother - IEI

[Smilingeyes]

ENTj--?

produce

ISFj, ISFj, ISFp, ENFp, INFp

One ISFj marries an INTj and produce
ESTp, ESTj

The INTj has six siblings who are
ESFj, INTj, ISFp, INTp, ESTj, ESFj.

...


There's no purely genetics-based model that explains the socionic type patterns seen. The first person to create one gets +10 brownie points.

[Ms. Kensington]

The first person to create one gets +10 brownie points.

Ugh I had too many sweets this holiday.

my parents are conflictors: ENTj and ISFp. I am INTj and my sister is ESFp.

[redbaron]

Ugh I had too many sweets this holiday.

my parents are conflictors: ENTj and ISFp. I am INTj and my sister is ESFp.

interesting. are your parents still married? how is it going for them?

My parents are SEI and EII (although my mom's type is still somewhat in question). My brother and I are both IEI.

[Ms. Kensington]

interesting. are your parents still married? how is it going for them?

My parents are SEI and EII (although my mom's type is still somewhat in question). My brother and I are both IEI.

yes, still married. my parents' marriage worked when they were supporting us. when my sister and I left the home there was a very rough patch. I've witnessed hard times and good times. I respect them.

[ZTCrawcrustle]

There's no purely genetics-based model that explains the socionic type patterns seen. The first person to create one gets +10 brownie points.

There would not be one if type (or each dichotomy, preference for an element, etc) resulted from the contribution of multiple genes.

I do not think that there is selection among lineages for certain quadras or elements. Up until the last two centuries, certainly prior to the Enlightenment, most marriages were arranged (not generated from compatibility). As valuing or strong Se or Te does not equal having money or prestige, since strength in socionics functions does not mean possessing the assets commonly attributed to those functions, I think that natural selection for a quadra or for specific socionics elements would not necessarily emerge.

[Mediator Kam]

mom-ESI
dad-LII
me-SEI
bro-SLE
sis-can't tell, haha.

[1981slater]

I think this is the fourth time there is thread about genetics!

Anyway,

My dad ISTj
Mom ENFj
Me ENTp
Sis ESFp

Dad's family mostly beta
Mom's family mostly alpha

[1981slater]

So are mine.

Dad - SLE
Mom - EII
Me - ESI
Sister - LSI
Brother - ILE

My mom's parents:
Dad - ILI
Mom - ESE

No clue on my dad's parents because I don't see them much.

Interesting. You and your brothers have inherited exactly the ego functions of your parents!

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Type doesn't seem genetic at all.

alpha mom + alpha dad = 2 beta kids? LOL.

It's funny how varied people's relationships are with their parents. But I think maybe, you get your temperament from a combination of your parents... resulting in all types. But the actual type this turns out to be isn't genetic. Blah I forgot how basic genetics go but you get the idea.

There could potentially be thousands of genes which affect type, many of them recessive. I think you would probably have to selectively breed duals over generations to see if they became more likely to produce same type children.

True identical twins are often the same type. There are probably some out there which aren't, but any true identical twins i've met have had the same type.

Some people also believe your type is influenced by various stages of development in the womb (and as I understand it, they use Grofs model to compare to quadra the child ends up with.)

[1981slater]

Not true.

Yeah, twins are usually mirrors

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Not true.

Well i'm convinced...

[ArchonAlarion]

Ummm best I could figure...

Dad - ISFx
Mom - EXFJ
Me - ENTp-Ti
Sister - ENFp

[FDG]

True identical twins are often the same type. There are probably some out there which aren't, but any true identical twins i've met have had the same type.

Exactly, this is the reason why I think there must be some genetic basis for type.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

You people are ridiculous. You probably know of ONE or TWO twin pairs in the whole wide world, and they happen to be mirrors, so you then try to apply that to all twins, amiright?

Anyways I just wanted to point out that there's no evidence that type is genetic, also that's a good point about marriages being previously arranged (aren't they still arranged in some countries? I bet they are...) and not compatibility based. With the surge of fairness, creating a firm middle class (creating teachers, psychologists) it enables semi-educated people to choose partners based on compatibility and not just on wealth. Though money is still the triumphing factor I would say.

[Christy B]

I have never seen a pair of twins with the same type. Though TBH the ones I have known have tended to be of the same quadra. Not sure if the genetics thing holds much weight but my mom's family is like mostly Beta... I mean my mom's 3 brothers are beta, all of her cousins are beta, she is beta and both her parents are/were beta (infp grandma nd estp grandpa)... her sister is the only non-beta and is gamma intp- ni. There are like NO deltas or alphas at all in the 20 close and even distant relatives I know of her family. I am seriously the only delta and my sister is the only alpha.....In my dad's family it seems to be that there are a couple of deltas, my grandpa was LSE-Si and my uncle is ISTP-Te. On my grandma's (dad's mom) side it seems to be mainly gamma...... idk.......

I have always wondered if cultural values affects things. ???????

[Smilingeyes]

For type to be dictated by genetics, identical twins would have to always be the same.
Try the following article:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/artic...-000006&page=2

quotes:

-Growing up, Pam was the “smart one,” more assertive and outspoken than her sister. She still wins prizes for her poetry, but since young adulthood, she’s also been struggling with schizophrenia, a disorder that often lands her in the hospital. Shy Carolyn is now a psychiatrist—she began her studies before she fully realized what was troubling her sister.

(different energy using/temperament)

-Sha-Asia (left) and Na-Asia Jones, 13

These girls insist that they are as different as two sisters the same age can possibly be. They go to the same school but are in different classes and have different friends.

(different social roles and social relations)

-Other differences are more revealing. For example, “Putting together an Ikea cabinet,” says Jason, “Randy would just be done as quickly as possible. If there were extra screws, he’d throw them behind the washing machine. I would look at the directions for so long before I dove in—and then still get it wrong.”

(different information channels)


-“Debbie’s more like my mother, and I’m more like my father,” says Diane. “When I try to give her advice, she gets upset. She thinks I’m always telling her what to do. I just think I have a stronger personality. Growing up, Debbie had a lot more boyfriends. I was a lot more standoffish.

(non-quadratic interrelationship communication)

.....

For type to be completely dictated by genetics, it would have to be dictated by genetics always and every time. No exceptions. That there are individuals and instances for which this is not so disproves the assumption.

A trait which is influenced by genetics as well as the environment is called multi-factorial.

I find it extremely likely that socionics is multi-factorial.

[Smilingeyes]

More random internet stuff about identical twins:
http://www.psywww.com/intropsych/ch1..._research.html

Australian twin researcher David Hay ran one of the world's largest twin studies, collecting data from 587 sets of twins for over a decade. Hay noted that identical twins are often "mirror images" of each other, with facial structure, fingerprints, and dominant hand reversed. This mirror-image duplication extends to the brain. If one twin is right-hemisphere dominant, the other tends to be left-hemisphere dominant. Because the two sides of the brain are somewhat specialized for different things, the twins usually think in somewhat different ways. One may excel in math, the other in language skills, for example.

However, even twins who think differently can be very similar in temperament and other personality variables. Bouchard did not find outstanding similarities between identical twins on such standard measures as IQ tests or standardized personality tests, but he did find striking similarities were mannerisms (such as wearing rubber bands on the wrists, or reading magazines backwards), personal choices (such as choice of names for pets or children, or choice of clothing styles), and expressive social behavior (shyness or social ease, laughter, facial expressions and posture). These are exactly the sorts of things many of us refer to as personality, so in that sense Bouchard's findings can be interpreted as strong support for genetic influences on personality.

----

And another article about identical twins and non-genetic biological modification:

http://multiples.about.com/od/funfac...erenttwins.htm

more random twinpsychology and genetics stuff:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6498215.stm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0215121214.htm

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...-not-identical

[1981slater]

FTR, I think he's making some "mirror image" crack?

No, no!! . I am serious about this. I mean Socionics mirror (ISFp-ESFj...).