Your understanding of the elements

[neproblems]

Hi all,

I'm interested to know different peoples interpretations of the functions/elements

This thread is for anyone to lay down thier thoughts on what the elements mean to them.

No correcting/dissagreeing with anyone though please! (just write what you think instead)

Every opinion is useful, as it helps to see the general consensus (if there is one) or to see how other people are typing, or to see depths of the elements that others may be unaware of...

Feel free to write as much or little as you like... also feel free to write/expand on what someone else has already said

And if this flops, than i can only assume that you all agree with me



SI - what sensations are produced?

SE - What power does it demonstrate?

TI - Is it correct?

TE - How does it perform?

NI - What will happen?

NE - How can it be used?

FI - Is it fair/ethical?

FE - How is this expressed?

[The Reality Denialist]

NE - How can it be used?

Ne(T) - What things it consists of and how make it work out [better]? I'd say mobilizing plays rather big role to set up motivation.
Ni: where to go

Ti: defining parts and analogous things
Te: how to put it together

Si: comfort
Se: attention, will

Fe: expression
Fi: thought control

[isptn]

Si: Not so much literal sensations or aesthetics. Si (at least Si-) is less physical, more about holistic internal experience of pleasantness or unpleasantness (including the psychological). Not usually bothered by minor discomforts as long as the experience as a whole is more pleasant than unpleasant. May not even notice discomfort, may not be aware of what is going on around them due to being absorbed in their own internal experience. Does not concern oneself too much with appearance and external aesthetics. Seeks to do things at their own pace and in their own way, avoiding unnecessary psychological strain. Goes with the flow of their own energy, that energy being difficult to describe as it is not literal physical energy. Every activity has an energy value different for each individual, that varies by context. One person may be energized by playing tennis, another drained by it, and another energized by tennis only when playing with certain people. Si types do not like to be told what to do or when or how to do it, because then they are not in control of their own energy, psychological wellbeing, and efficiency. Si wants to take the path of least resistance and least discomfort. Given the choice to either climb a mountain or a hill to reach the same result, who would choose the mountain? Between being stabbed in the chest and a paper cut, who would choose being stabbed in the chest? But of course, the internal experience is not always proportional to some external measure, so feelings and sensations that would be uncomfortable to one person might not be to another. One might for instance rather be stabbed than get up on stage and perform, if they have a severe phobia. Another Si type might not care about a number of discomforts, as they may barely be noticed or not have much effect, causing the person to not bother avoiding them.

[Chae]

@isptn Wow /sparkle sparkle/ Super good, and so elaborate! I'm currently working on .

[Chae]

A moment of: "Eureka!" - like a mental sledgehammer. An idea, seemingly out of nowhere. Or many ideas coinciding at once, or in a chain. An emerging combination of ideas like a puzzle, even. Like how I went about writing this, even more insights came, and the text grew larger and larger while I worked on multiple sentences. Total inception. It strikes like lightning, this is also why this element has tremendous energy - and also detects it, respectively, in the form of potential. It's about what's tentative. Being the first one, the vanguard, risk, taking chances. There's a sense of starting from a plain assumption to pursue said potential. It involves a stance of truthful curiosity and the ability to spot, weigh, or even generate options. A taken opportunity is Ne's best friend. To see through something using this element, you have to be able to flip things around, break things down, summarize, extrapolate: considering many angles, one decides among all these alternatives what the most important contingency is. This one receives dedication - but as you see more angles, another contingency appears. It is a state of utter chaos. Ne really does work best with mayhem of any kind, playing the trickster that juggles it all, a jack (hehe, look who's above) of all trades. Accordingly, Ne may (or may not, sike!) become apt at anything it chooses to be worthy of their attention, seeing one's own talent and that of others. It cannot help but point out capabilities, prowess, knacks - being invested in development to achieve the fulfilling of those opportunities to unlock new ones, expanding as much as possible. One has to step outside convention to dare such a thing, but the reward or journey itself is satisfying. A person or thing who/that obtains ideal manifestation (or, could obtain, sike again) is Ne's joy. Seeing these potential manifestations - "what could it be?" - it's impossible with this element to ever experience boredom. Everything is rich with possibility, everything can be explored. It is possible to get lost in all of this, almost seeming aimless, but this is not the truth: the aim is clearly fulfilled potential, shining bright, so even more things and people become inspired by it. Why not try something else, right, a change? This naturally creates a very eccentric and quirky attitude. Ne is always found with the bizarre, crazy, nonsensical, and absurd where potential discovery can happen in one's head as well as in the outside world, depending on how the person chooses to use their multifaceted and boundless imagination, and what the desired potential subject is. The idea is what counts first and foremost, though. It emerges just in the mind, forever multiplying consciously-erratically (Ne is a paradox), even when not paid attention to. So, mental interest itself is motivation enough there. Improvisations and experiments aid this process to unfold: you try this, try that, try everything, or when you turn it around again: even nothing at all to see what happens! That way, importance, essence, and eventuality are crucial to look out for in the area of this element.

[neproblems]

Digging the responses so far, keep 'em coming

[Pallas]

We don't need no

Fi: thought control

[Pallas]

Si: Not so much literal sensations or aesthetics. Si (at least Si-) is less physical, more about holistic internal experience of pleasantness or unpleasantness (including the psychological). Not usually bothered by minor discomforts as long as the experience as a whole is more pleasant than unpleasant. May not even notice discomfort, may not be aware of what is going on around them due to being absorbed in their own internal experience. Does not concern oneself too much with appearance and external aesthetics. Seeks to do things at their own pace and in their own way, avoiding unnecessary psychological strain. Goes with the flow of their own energy, that energy being difficult to describe as it is not literal physical energy. Every activity has an energy value different for each individual, that varies by context. One person may be energized by playing tennis, another drained by it, and another energized by tennis only when playing with certain people. Si types do not like to be told what to do or when or how to do it, because then they are not in control of their own energy, psychological wellbeing, and efficiency. Si wants to take the path of least resistance and least discomfort. Given the choice to either climb a mountain or a hill to reach the same result, who would choose the mountain? Between being stabbed in the chest and a paper cut, who would choose being stabbed in the chest? But of course, the internal experience is not always proportional to some external measure, so feelings and sensations that would be uncomfortable to one person might not be to another. One might for instance rather be stabbed than get up on stage and perform, if they have a severe phobia. Another Si type might not care about a number of discomforts, as they may barely be noticed or not have much effect, causing the person to not bother avoiding them.

What does it even do then?

[isptn]

What does it even do then?

It does things the easy way. Comparing myself with people around me who are emotionally invested in outcomes, who get stressed out and upset over every minor setback, creating all kinds of negative energy, move like crazy all over the place doing this and that to make absolutely sure they get the outcome the want, etc. I would say my Si is unmistakably valuable. They might spend hours in this state to accomplish one outcome. Meanwhile, I just chill and do one thing and it's done, same outcome reached.

[wasp]

Ne is supernova
Ni is black hole

Just a play on the old explanation that Ne likes to expand on ideas (and find the connections between them)
whereas Ni focuses on one thing intensely and fleshes it out, analyzing it.
The black hole here is a point in space, a singularity, darkening its surroundings,
whereas the supernova continuously expands, enlightening its surroundings. (LII friend)

Si is that girl you had a crush on in middle school
Se is that girl staring at you from the other side of the bar

Fi is the gift (or suicide)
Fe is the packaging (or bullying)

Which is why the beautifully wrapped gifts you receive from Fi PoLRs contain nothing inside,
whereas the ones you receive from Fe PoLRs are poorly wrapped, yet they contain the most thoughtful gift you've ever received.

Ti is a light bulb
Te is the lamp armature

Ti sheds light on your environment, analyzing it and how it works.
The lamp armature holds the light bulb in place.
The light bulb is the idea - the armature connects the idea to the real world, allowing it to function. (LII friend)

[neproblems]

Anyone else have a deeper understanding, or want to show how they use an element?


Potential career areas that might be interesting for each element:


NE Creativity

NI Planning

TI law

TE Management

SE Motivation

SI Leisure

FE entertainment

FI Humanities

[The Reality Denialist]

Law is too artificial and lacking for my taste. Laws of nature are not.

[Tallmo]

It does things the easy way. Comparing myself with people around me who are emotionally invested in outcomes, who get stressed out and upset over every minor setback, creating all kinds of negative energy, move like crazy all over the place doing this and that to make absolutely sure they get the outcome the want, etc. I would say my Si is unmistakably valuable. They might spend hours in this state to accomplish one outcome. Meanwhile, I just chill and do one thing and it's done, same outcome reached.

you have to look at cases when Si is actually used. In craftsmanship and art. Working with surfaces, wood etc. Then SLIs can be very invested in the outcome.

[Tallmo]

potential
abstraction

object
impressions

evaluation
conviction

reduction
method


EDIT: One doesn't really need to understand the functions, because it is also about learning to see them directly.

[Hope]

@paranoid

Fair enough.

[neproblems]

EDIT: One doesn't really need to understand the functions, because it is also about learning to see them directly.

What's the way that you spot them? (how does it manifest)

[Myst]

The light bulb is the idea - the armature connects the idea to the real world, allowing it to function. (LII friend)

Light bulb - that's your LII friend's Ne.

[Tallmo]

What's the way that you spot them? (how does it manifest)

Yes. But thats really difficult to describe. Thats a living phenomenon. Also depends upon functional position. Understanding of the elements is easier to put into words but more abstract.

[Shytan]

Si: Not so much literal sensations or aesthetics. Si (at least Si-) is less physical, more about holistic internal experience of pleasantness or unpleasantness (including the psychological). Not usually bothered by minor discomforts as long as the experience as a whole is more pleasant than unpleasant. May not even notice discomfort, may not be aware of what is going on around them due to being absorbed in their own internal experience. Does not concern oneself too much with appearance and external aesthetics. Seeks to do things at their own pace and in their own way, avoiding unnecessary psychological strain. Goes with the flow of their own energy, that energy being difficult to describe as it is not literal physical energy. Every activity has an energy value different for each individual, that varies by context. One person may be energized by playing tennis, another drained by it, and another energized by tennis only when playing with certain people. Si types do not like to be told what to do or when or how to do it, because then they are not in control of their own energy, psychological wellbeing, and efficiency. Si wants to take the path of least resistance and least discomfort. Given the choice to either climb a mountain or a hill to reach the same result, who would choose the mountain? Between being stabbed in the chest and a paper cut, who would choose being stabbed in the chest? But of course, the internal experience is not always proportional to some external measure, so feelings and sensations that would be uncomfortable to one person might not be to another. One might for instance rather be stabbed than get up on stage and perform, if they have a severe phobia. Another Si type might not care about a number of discomforts, as they may barely be noticed or not have much effect, causing the person to not bother avoiding them.

This is Si as what function?

[Cosmic Teapot]

Si : memorizes highly personal sensing information, memories are accompanied by feelings which are hard to describe with words - like flavors of the soul, in tune with bodily sensations, knows when becoming ill or gaining weight, self-healing, sensitive to touch and noise, inner peace, picky about food, elegance, laziness, comfort, own pace, crafty, knows how to take care of clothes, will keep old clothes for years and will look like new, steady, quality, soft sheets, quiet, walking drugstore, delicious food, caring, will help people with practical matters and will ask something like "can I bring you something? A tea?", unobtrusive, good eye for composition and color


Fi : thinks before talking. Tries not to hurt people. Own moral code that can look irrational to outsiders, respectful, amiable, loyal, healing, emotional intelligence, strong convictions, inner strength, driving force for justice, creates warmth, sympathy, regulates own behavior in social situations, giving, able to analyze peoples motivations, can idealize, steady in his convictions, though but fair (in his mind), won't forgive unjust behavior and can be cold in his judgment, personal value


Te : factual information with need for practical application, quick, solid, no nonsense, lists, organization, hard worker, criticizes inefficiency, likes results, leading the pack, manages and likes money, not much patience for contemplation and unnecessary complexity, prefers facts over own understanding of things, objective, needs proof dismissive of anything else, good memory for data, fast talker, ruthless, financial value


Ne : when coupled with Fi can see a person as a universe of potential talents and personality traits, likes to keep multiple views in mind, there is no single truth - only perspectives, perceptive of people and their behavior, likes to interconnect reasons for phenomena in politics/science/economy and social issues, goofy, can act as multiple persona(but stereotypes), sees things as a whole - as from the clouds and can play the devils advocate while not taking anything seriously, intellectual curiosity, many ideas that serve as starting points, sees parallels between random topics and can create humor with it, unexpected, loose ends, unrealistic and idealistic, impractical, potential value

[idontgiveaf]

Ne - bunch of fucking ideas going inside your head and you sound funny everytime because of those ideas
Ni - being able to predict the future xD
Se - being in touched with your own senses, feeling more confident with yourself and you feel like you can do anything with Se and you observe other people and they like lame and you think you're cool lol xD
Si - abiding the rules and you love your job a lot and the government and you follow rules.
Te - being able to logically manage something more realistically
Ti - There's just something inside your head that makes you think logically and analyse something. it makes me feel genius and I'm happy when i feel imma genius
Fe - being a people pleaser and knowing how people feel and you just know what people want and you take advantage of that lol xD being a people pleaser to make you fit in and be cool
Fi - being stubborn and just following yourself because other's ideas are stupid lol so yours is much better xD and you just do your own thing and you care more about yourself than others.


Am i right? I didn't stereotype this shit.

[Hope]

Si is about moderation, practicality, common sense, skills, internal experience, physical sensations, psychological well being.

4DSi is about the experince of sensations in detail. It's physical. The internal experience of the physical world, like hunger, thirst, cold, pain, fatigue, sleep, etc...
and the psychological discomfort or pleasantness that physical experience creates.

Si is about common sense too.What is physically possible and what is not. What will hurt you, what is viable, what would be risky…

Si is not about being picky on food, is about eating healthy naturally (not based in previous teachings but experience), knowing what is healthy/unhealthy. Si is about developing practical skills, is about being hands on and being enoughly aware/sensible to become fascinated through 5 senses and involve into experience.

Is being highly aware of 5 senses and how the external world affects the individual experience.

That's why I'm uncomfortable with ppl being mistyped and intuitives messing with stuff that they don't fully understand and spreading wrong cliches and false information.

[Myst]

Hi all,

I'm interested to know different peoples interpretations of the functions/elements

This thread is for anyone to lay down thier thoughts on what the elements mean to them.

I see these 8 IEs as very general summaries of cognitive approaches where more specific elements of these summarized cognitive approaches are not properly covered or systematized by Socionics and one shouldn't look to Socionics's general draft of a model for that. At all.

So with that disclaimer out of the way, Logic vs Ethics are evaluation systems, impersonally defined evaluation oriented for inanimate objects vs personally felt evaluation oriented for people. Sensing vs Intuition are perceptual systems, tangible sensation oriented for "here and now" vs the intangible association oriented away from "here and now".

Extraversion is the object-oriented cognition and introversion analyzes deeper about/away from the objects. There are other orientations in cognition so it's somewhat arbitrary to emphasize this dichotomy of extraversion vs introversion and again this dichotomy is just very general summaries.

So the most that can be said, which isn't much:

Te = direct utilization of facts for objects/logical action
Ti = deeper evaluation of the facts as objective properties of things
Fe = direct expressions of feelings in people dynamics
Fi = deeper personal filter of feelings as relating to people
Se = direct focus of sensations of appearance of objects and of moves for action
Si = deeper savouring of sensations and of how they are arranged
Ne = expansive intuition of intangible properties of objects
Ni = deeper contemplation of intangible associations of processes

Not going into specifics of information processing inside the context of the Socionics model, as I said, many of those are covered better by other models of cognition. What's left is just the above.

We can go into specifics outside the context of the Socionics model, though but that's no longer just Socionics then.

No correcting/dissagreeing with anyone though please! (just write what you think instead)

Only saw this now, sorry.

[Myst]

Si - abiding the rules and you love your job a lot and the government and you follow rules.

Did you come from MBTI? Trying to see the context for your stuff here.

[Cosmic Teapot]

I guess everyone's understanding of what a function is and isn't has to fit the @Slugabed ideal to qualify as valid.
It's just your opinion, man. That's what this thread is for. If you want exact descriptions of the functions visit wikisocion.net
Besides, we're not talking about exact science here so if you want to nitpick on details like "picky about food" ...meh

[Bertrand]

Si is about moderation, practicality, common sense, skills, internal experience, physical sensations, psychological well being.

4DSi is about the experince of sensations in detail. It's physical. The internal experience of the physical world, like hunger, thirst, cold, pain, fatigue, sleep, etc...
and the psychological discomfort or pleasantness that physical experience creates.

Si is about common sense too.What is physically possible and what is not. What will hurt you, what is viable, what would be risky…

Si is not about being picky on food, is about eating healthy naturally (not based in previous teachings but experience), knowing what is healthy/unhealthy. Si is about developing practical skills, is about being hands on and being enoughly aware/sensible to become fascinated through 5 senses and involve into experience.

Is being highly aware of 5 senses and how the external world affects the individual experience.

That's why I'm uncomfortable with ppl being mistyped and intuitives messing with stuff that they don't fully understand and spreading wrong cliches and false information.

i just want to add one tiny little detail, which is I think you are expressing it in terms of what Si is (mostly) blocked with Te... so from my point of view you express it wonderfully but I could see other Si users seeing it somewhat, or preferring to express it, differently because although its hard for me to imagine it being otherwise ("the good" as "well being") I see Si/Fe doing a lot (and enabling particularly) of picky eating and other exceptions that I don't think disqualify 4d Si per se because the sensations are not about "health" in some Te objective sense but more like "good times" or "inoffensive" or "comforting" even and that can vary a lot on a lot of social and emotional factors. for example I feel like alpha ethicals tend towards overfeeding their kids and stuff like that

i feel like SLI is basically at the pinacle of refinement in regards to Si usage and then when it wraps back around to alpha it basically falls off a cliff but the upside is it can be radically creative. whereas Te can be kind of "rigid"--Fe is more "anything goes"

I agree that SLI develops over time a true mastery over their internal compass and colloquially develops a highly refined "intuition" on health and wellbeing, which is really evidenced in that they don't have to "force" themselves to be healthy, they legitimately want it and enjoy it, which I think is a marker of 4d functions in general

what other types consider labor or energy expenditures others are instead deriving pleasure from developing them which gives them near limitless energy to do so which is how they can develop to such great heights etc

[Hope]

I guess everyone's understanding of what a function is and isn't has to fit the @Slugabed ideal to qualify as valid.

Evidently.

It's just your opinion, man. That's what this thread is for. If you want exact descriptions of the functions visit wikisocion.net
Besides, we're not talking about exact science here so if you want to nitpick on details like "picky about food" ...meh

...but, someone can self define as Si lead for being picky on food, but Si Te can't be picky on bad intellectualization of concepts, poor understanding and misinformation? My criticism has nothing to do with exact definitions at any rate, btw.

[Hope]

@Bertrand


If Si is blocked by Te in my description (which is not, because I don't think that a function could block other), but supposing that it is…why someone who is the same type as me, would say something completely different and that has nothing to do with a real experience of Si or Te? Why their description lack of any logical/rational (Te) background, shape or tint? Why it doesn't have any real organic experience behind? Why is it so plastic, artificial, a cliche?


Anyway, what I'm describing on Si is not Te, Te is about logic (different from common sense used in Si, by the way, in Si it has to do with care and wellbeing), so Te is related to seeking and manifesting logic, objectivity, looking for knowledge/ factual information, effectiveness (productivity), achievement, purpose, evaluation, test.


A completely pure Intellectual exercise, related to the external world to actually provide and seek order and evaluations Not physical evaluations of experience (which is Si), but logical, intellectual evaluation of the exterior…is it reasonable? does it makes sense? is it accurate? is it productive?

[Bertrand]

right, my point was you were sort of projecting your own internal experiences with Si (blocked with Te) as the definitive version of 4d Si, when its actually a manifestation of SLI particularly but not necessarily Si qua Si alone. Anyway, other people can pretty much recognize that, in principle, whether or not their own personal experience jives with yours (like another SLI)...

I want to reiterate that I think everything you said that got criticized I thought was really insightful and true, just that is was a specific form of relating to and using base Si, to which there is at least one alternative (Fe), and while maybe on some primordial level they experience the atomic function identically it definitely comes across differently in such a way that it felt that your description of it may have illicitly excluded some of their experiences and manifestations of it, etc...

[Hope]

right, my point was you were sort of projecting your own internal experiences with Si (blocked with Te) as the definitive version of 4d Si, when its actually a manifestation of SLI particularly but not necessarily Si qua Si alone. Anyway, other people can pretty much recognize that, in principle, whether or not their own personal experience jives with yours (like another SLI)...

I'm eager to hear how another SLI would describe their functions... or Si in this case. So no, its not the definitive version of anything and not particularily Si of different quadras. I like to read about SLIs opinions because they can be really insightful for me being also SLI, and actually they can "teach" me a lot too (some of them have done it before, btw). Its the most insightful experience, since Its like looking some kind of reflection (not in literal sense).

When I find another SLI its like "whoa! how can it be that we are so similar/have lived so similar stuff even being totally strangers?" Not saying that they necessarily should have or would have the same opinion as me on all kind of stuff (thats crazy), but like one is able to see something real and similarities in both of us. It makes me think deeply in a lot of stuff you know...I've found ppl who have had similar childhood as me, for example, and I'm not talking about 1 or 2 persons, but a bunch saying that they've experienced similar things...its shocking.
One guy one day explained to me Fe in 4th position in his own words/experience... other explained to me enneagram. Just examples.

I mean, there are (and must be) differences between people even being the same type, obviously, and that's why their opinions and experiences are most valuable. Our level of knowledge could vary too, and that's useful. But in this case, I don't see any personal experience in that description, do you see any? I'm not seeing an opinion or a personal experience, its not even how Si works on real people, that Si description is a cluster of cliches.

Another example, Tallmo, he's SEI, one can see that his description of Si is often leaned towards Fe...he describes it as Impressions. It's wonderful, it talks about how he lives introverted sensing through the lens of extroverted feelings, which provides him impressions about the external world. What he says is about Si not what I'd say, and how he explains about it its not how I'd explain, and I find personally hard to talk with him (also it reflects the relation between SLI and SEI), but one can see how Si manifests in his particular case.

[Bertrand]

But in this case, I don't see any personal experience in that description, do you see any?

No, I think you pretty much nailed it, in that respect

[Hope]

No correcting/dissagreeing with anyone though please! (just write what you think instead)

I'm so sorry!!!

I've just read it now. I should just stop now...maybe?

[neproblems]

Only saw this now, sorry.

I'm so sorry!!!

I've just read it now. I should just stop now...maybe?

No worries!

I wanted as many people as possible to feel free to share how they see the elements, without thinking that thier technical knowledge or interpretation isn't good enough.

Im sure that people will dissagree with each other, but I thought that it would be better to see what everyone thinks first,

and then see where the consensus is (or isnt)

There is so much variation in typings of newcomers and celebrities, that people have clearly interpreted this stuff in different ways. It's useful to get an idea of what each other are seeing...

[Tallmo]

Another example, Tallmo, he's SEI, one can see that his description of Si is often leaned towards Fe...he describes it as Impressions.

Im using "impressions" in the broad sense of the word. Basically anything thst is sensed on the inside. Problem is that sli and sei take these for granted so they fail to see how subjective they are.

Im not leaning towards Fe. If you give a SLI a tool they will start to figure out how to use it by applying the right pressure on it or muscular tension, the feeling on the surface etc. SEI will have the same inner experience of the tool but they dont know what to do with it. They will start playing with the tool evoking cool or fun impressions. This requires activity. Then Fe is being used. Often with horrible results as far as the work is concerned.

Si is percieved as "how things are". But thats an illusion. However, in some fields its fine to live in an illusionary impressionistic world. Because Si is a psychological fact its a big part of our culture. But when discussing it in socionics I try to see thing from the perspective of some other type than myself.

[Myst]

I wanted as many people as possible to feel free to share how they see the elements, without thinking that thier technical knowledge or interpretation isn't good enough.

Well oh, I basically gave my interpretation in a very technical form where I actually claimed that any further elaboration by trying to link specific elements to these IEs is a bad idea if done inside the context of the known Socionics models. lol. I can certainly get into details on how my own cognition works as deeply observed in my own mind or what I occasionally observed in others but these observations for the most part will only be loosely related. Also possible to investigate details of some linguistic elements rather than other cognitive or behavioural ones, I find that approach to be closest to the core of the ideas on IEs.

OK, then, just to add a little to the thread, here's my version of how I see some of these IEs which may not apply to every possible manifested form of the general summary of what they, as IEs, are defined, but then, again, above disclaimer.

My (quick) version of Ti: it's about grasping logical points of the topic, of the situation(s), and of objects if compared to each other, to build an understanding of them. These points are essentially all definable details about the things that are relevant to understanding them. Being clear on these logical points and the resulting understanding then allows control over the situation/objects/etc. The Ti information content includes the details of the relevant logical points, various logical operations on them and resulting systematic understandings in an "inner picture" with expression of that picture in explicitly presenting the logical points which can become very thoroughly elaborated if going deeper in the "inner picture" to express all of it. This is emotionally a completely neutral state essentially, and all the logical content looks much more static and unchanging compared to dynamic emotionality (Fe).

My version of Se: all directly sensed data for the sense of realness of objects and the whole outside tangible world, where realness means the objects have resistance about which you have to use active moves and varying degrees of force (ranging from very simple light pressure to strong force) unlike in your imagination where you can just imagine a change you desire to have. Being truly in touch with the sensed objects and the world requires strong involvement with this sensed data about objects and the world, it being vivid, abundant and real, and this is where Se information as sensed traits of objects is connected to the action focused orientation of extraversion and to material desires. The involvement is really rooted in physical content about the world as contrasted to deeply detached contemplativeness of mental imagery (Ni).

[Bertrand]

Im using "impressions" in the broad sense of the word. Basically anything thst is sensed on the inside. Problem is that sli and sei take these for granted so they fail to see how subjective they are.

Im not leaning towards Fe. If you give a SLI a tool they will start to figure out how to use it by applying the right pressure on it or muscular tension, the feeling on the surface etc. SEI will have the same inner experience of the tool but they dont know what to do with it. They will start playing with the tool evoking cool or fun impressions. This requires activity. Then Fe is being used. Often with horrible results as far as the work is concerned.

Si is percieved as "how things are". But thats an illusion. However, in some fields its fine to live in an illusionary impressionistic world. Because Si is a psychological fact its a big part of our culture. But when discussing it in socionics I try to see thing from the perspective of some other type than myself.

its also what those impressions mean in terms of Fe, so like if you walk into a room you won't intepret things in terms of the same Te scheme as Slugabed, but rather you'll think in terms of how those sensations indicate what a person is feeling etc (not always of course, but by default). when I think if "impressions" colloquially i think in terms of it being Fe, interestingly: like this gives me this or that feeling impression, which is why I think Slugabed used it, but I can see how it is not limited to Fe "impressions" rather everything gives off a Si "impression" in some sense, in fact that is Si. Truth is I tend to think in terms of Si/Fe when I think about Fe at all, but I imagine, like you said, theres 16 different types and thus many different ideas about what the word means colloquially because its fundamentally an attribution rooted in some form of projection etc

interestingly enough the flipside to this is, that when you, Tallmo thinks of Te you think of it in Ni terms, and when Slugabed thinks of Fe she thinks of it in Ni terms, so while you tend towards concrete understanding of Fe she will tend to an abstract understanding of it and vice versa, which I think its the root of your disjunction in regards to verbiage etc (but it makes sense, if the ego naturally associates Si with Te impressions, in order to understand Si with Fe it will have to go up a level of abstraction: vis Ni)

[Hope]

@Tallmo I know that you try to be objective (so do I) on your explanations about Si. The main subject of my talking about your explanations was to demonstrate that there are ppl who would explain in their own words Si according their understanding and experience which not necessarily would fit in my exact words, understanding or experience, but it doesn't mean that its wrong, since it's evident that its lived in that way (the experience is organic and real) by the person.

Its like when two ppl eat the same type of candy, each one would explain with their own words their experience, that's good and one can see that both of them ate the same candy, that doesn't mean that they will use the same words or that their focus would be the same. I mean, maybe one would talk about the shape, the color and the smell of the candy in detail, maybe the other would focus on the texture and the flavor, for example.

Finally, I agree with you in that internal impressions are not objective, also that Si is pretty subjective. That's why I think that others ppls explanations and experiences are valuable, for the subjectivity that is inherent in the process. The objectiveness that I mentioned was related to Te, not to Si, however.

[idontgiveaf]

Did you come from MBTI? Trying to see the context for your stuff here.

Yes i came there. Is there major differences between mbti and socionics?
I think mbti is flawed. Tell me the differences in socionics terms.

[User Name]

Yes i came there. Is there major differences between mbti and socionics?
I think mbti is flawed. Tell me the differences in socionics terms.

Socionics is a theory, MBTI is shit.

Seriously, MBTI is just an oversimplification of Jung's work (that's why it's more "popular", because it's easy to understand for anybody). When working with MBTI, people think that to type themselves they just need to choose their preference in the four dichotomies, at times without even caring about cognitive functions. Also, MBTI is full of stereotypes, which is kind of annoying (the main reason why I got into Socionics).

Socionics, instead, is a complex web of information. It's beautiful, because to discover your type, you need everything to fit the theory, this time not according to four mere dichotomies, but in terms of Information Elements, Intertype Relationships and Reinin dichotomies. Everything is linked. Most of the times that "logical perfection" can't be reached, as we're human beings and our behavior is irrational. But for this reason you need to weigh all the facts and choose your best-fit Socion. It's hard, but it's fun. And in the end, you can't even realize that you learned all of that.

Just my opinion.

[Myst]

Yes i came there. Is there major differences between mbti and socionics?
I think mbti is flawed. Tell me the differences in socionics terms.

"Si - abiding the rules and you love your job a lot and the government and you follow rules."

This was very MBTI, in Socionics Si is different. For the difference, well there have been some good posts in this thread on Socionics Si from the actual experience of SLI / SEI.