Stop it, I'm blushing.
Stop it, I'm blushing.
If he's freezing up because of a girl, it's not what your describing.Originally Posted by Kill4Me
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Waiting for my thread merge so I'll just write here.
Killmonger's-
values were apparent to me in his one-way conquest of Wakanda's throne. He states that his entire history prepared him just for this very act. And the very obvious: His nickname gives away
devalued).
Look at that.
Erik also has an interest in the roots of African artifacts as the scene with the museum masks displays. He's talking about what has been done during Africa's colonial exploitation influences today's racist state of things, and bases a lot of his arguments on this fact. He takes one mask with him just because he likes the way it looks, using it to scare and disguise himself in combat later as both a symbol (HAHA WE'RE BACK YOU COULDN'T ERADICATE US!) and sign to convey his aggression.
His entire character is deliberate in planning, battle-oriented, ruthless, and ideological, wanting to erase the past to create his own way: "Burn it all down!" - again devalued
Oh. She wasn't too clear for me. True, I saw her compared to Q somewhere as well. She's that one character with the memes and gadgets.conflict with Ramonda after rudely flipping off T'Challa in public?
That's some good stuff right there on Kilmonger. Oops Killlmonger.
It's a good idea for anybody who hasn't seen the Movie to see it before typing the characters.
It's okay to drop an "l" in killmonger's name, though; drives ole Miss Canfield batty.
I don't really try to read too deeply into characters' relationships, they are often inconsistent. Maybe a more obvious Fe > Fi moment was filming T'Challa getting thrown back by the suit for the lulz.Oh. She wasn't too clear for me. True, I saw her compared to Q somewhere as well. She's that one character with the memes and gadgets.
But yeah, she's essentially an irreverent kind of intellectual who comes up with cool inventions. Actually LSE isn't that far off, to be fair I didn't consider it at the time.
I wondered about that moment as well. It seemed somewhat inadequate for both characters in terms of (under-)estimatingand
values, "What are those?!". So LSE does well as a secondary option.
Bonus: That way we also know you preferover
It always strikes me how one's own valued elements influence methods of typing.
Nah...it's just sound socionics. The right way to use Fi for typing has to do with noticing your own reactions to different kinds of information or priorities.Bonus: That way we also know you prefer
(Just like it's not any more valid for Se types to use VI, it's just not a good method)
Any observations about Nakia? Seems to have some Se and probably extroverted but I could see a number of types.
Hmmm....I think Chae is right about Nakia being a 2w1. She had that Mother Teresa complex going on and successfully exercised her will behind the scenes to make T'challa into a more humanitarian leader. She's sorta rigid too (1 wing) and it's more believable that she disintegrates to type 8 under stress than type 3.
Like I noticed my sympathies for M'Baku, Erik, Okoye (!!), Klaue while I kind of disliked Shuri, Everett, W'Kabi? T'Challa and Ramonda were sort of in between, not to say bland but not really characters I'd obsess over. I have to specify I didn't like M'Baku too much at first, but he grew on me, I loved the development. I'm sure there's a pattern behind how I assorted them now that reflects back to my own type.
Sometimes I notice that it's instincts-related, I'm biased towards contraflow with maximum anti-establishment, anti-heterosexual agendas. Villains are generally queercoded to make the gays evil, that has few to do with socionics though
Yeah,We all tried it though, I even saw an old thread were you applied it. What on earth was up with us/you back then
I do agree
Is Okoye --> Okoa okay too?
Her speech on the market revealed a huge desire to help and reform, I couldn't think of any other type that summed it up so well. T'Challa has a lot of that motivation, too, but he's less global with it. Probably quadra difference there, they use different ethics.
A lot of types use VI all over the place, not just Se types. VI plus common sense is the best method and the most objective for typing real life characters and learning about the actual cognition for each type (obviously it doesn't work with fictional examples). Human beings have an easy time believing in evolution, but don't believe that physical tells evolved over time that give human beings a way to size up key parts of people's personalities. Strange. The other methods just mainly rely on subjective assessments of behaviors. You can still get to the right typing through the longer method with enough time, knowledge and practice but you can reach the same typing in a much shorter time if you know the VI for each socionics type (plus subtype).
I don't know. This all kind of reminds me of you pretending to be like Rihanna/Beyonce before.Waiting for my thread merge so I'll just write here.
Killmonger's
Look at that.
Erik also has an interest in the roots of African artifacts as the scene with the museum masks displays. He's talking about what has been done during Africa's colonial exploitation influences today's racist state of things, and bases a lot of his arguments on this fact. He takes one mask with him just because he likes the way it looks, using it to scare and disguise himself in combat later as both a symbol (HAHA WE'RE BACK YOU COULDN'T ERADICATE US!) and sign to convey his aggression.
His entire character is deliberate in planning, battle-oriented, ruthless, and ideological, wanting to erase the past to create his own way: "Burn it all down!" - again devalued
Are you saying that judicious types can never be (or never successfully or convincingly be) hardcore badasses? Never party or get tattoos or have any ghetto upbringing? Wake up every day and slowly sip a green smoothie with a painkiller ground up in it?
And idk what the typing by name is about lol. Based on that, Kill4Me should be an Ni ego (wants Se egos to kill for him), not SLE.
I'm right here, old miss canfield, to tell you that you have gone schizophrenic. Rihanna/Beyoncé aren't anywhere in sight on her post or even remotely hinted at.
Well at least you're checking for details now LOL.
I'm referring to a past situation.
Unrelated and irrelevantAnd using all sorts of gifs ain't pretense, it's simply expressive. Perspective, voilá. Can't change them ethics, they're always rambunctious. Either way, so what
You want unreasonable ad hominem, then you get it: You merely say that because you want to enforce your typing and don't like mine for whatever reason (please tell me), hence don't change it despite all contrary evidence as it means to admit defeat. Deal with it I say, and move on instead of making suspiciously probing comments because they get back to you. Obnoxious as always, frankly I'm annoyed, that's my part to stomach now so our stupid asses are even.
They can be in those circumstances, and I didn't say they can't be badassWe have several threads for authentic judicious badasses, starting from Darth Vader to the Joker. We have plenty in terms of villain variety. It's how these characters metabolize/ portray this environment that matters. In his case:
In other words, Alpha and Delta make zero sense.
I referred to the story that was told in the movie when they showed his training background.
K4M's type is also irrelevant therefore, we'd have to get his reasoning behind it first.
Yeah something's wrong, I second-guessed it as wellMaybe she's not okay? Got me worried beside the offense.
Why can't that in the photo be about Si seeking? Returning to one's ancestry, preserving ancestral roots. An Ne leading type would like bondage no more than an Se-Ni valuer.
In other words, Alpha and Delta make zero sense.
I referred to the story that was told in the movie when they showed his training background.
K4M's type is also irrelevant therefore, we'd have to get his reasoning behind it first.
If I'm not okay about something it's that people haven't touched any of the many points like these that I've brought up yet.
I'm checking you into a mental hospital for paranoid schizophrenics due to a completely untenuous connection you are making between Chae's post and some breathtaking allegation that she "pretended to be rihanna/beyonce." Good example of a delusional Ad Hominem in response to Chae's points, which I'm pretty sure consisted of more than just kilmonger's name.
Oops there it is again....killmonger with one L. Don't go having a cow now. rofl
My OP was about you butchering an ethnic name lol which is borderline racist or at least lazy, and never bothering to correct that or thinking it has any indication of the quality of your thinking as it comes across to people. Why don't you go chew on that with your so-called Ti creative. I didn't mention before that I was merely pointing out your lazy spelling error and then you went and harangued me personally in several posts after right away (insinuating I was trying to make a strawman when I was just responding regularly to a poster - even though her post was actually kind of curt.)
I'm talking about previous forum activity with the Rihanna thing obviously but if you were busy with your head far up your own ass at the time I wouldn't expect you'd have noticed.
That's
Hm, well I see. What's your reasoning behind Ne lead then?
I made a lot of points before this in this thread already on my impression of Killmonger. As for reasoning for Ne lead specifically, the point could be made that he was highly aware of issues on a global scale and had very global-reaching thinking and planning. He also had a very nuanced understanding of the ideological issues (which are pretty abstract) that surrounded his situation, with Wakanda and Black Americans and the oppressed worldwide. He gave it an irrationally personal twist though, which even though was hateful and convoluted, was definitely empathizable with and had merit. He ended up being right that Wakanda should have done something to help all along. I would think that a Se ego type especially Se lead would be much more grounded and less convolutedly idealistic about this kind of thing.That's
Hm, well I see. What's your reasoning behind Ne lead then?
I also don't think an Se lead would follow the dream of seeing some kind of glorious homeland for their entire life without ANY concrete proof of it first. I guess that's not a strong point in itself. I guess anyway what I feel is that I can't relate to Killmonger's person or thinking/life process at all, and I watched the movie with another SLE friend of mine who seemed unable to relate to him as well.
I could see Se lead for him as a typing simply because he's a meatlord trope. But then people should at least admit they're using that trope with his surface attributes as a way to type this rather complex character. As a person, I don't see SxE at all, he reminds me of no actual SxE's I've known in person in personality or ideology.
Last edited by niffer; 02-27-2018 at 01:46 AM.
the great thing about fictional characters is they can be a meatlord and a Ne lead, in other words, exhibit what amounts to strong Se and Ne
I think this dispute may be rooted in that fact and that neither of you are "wrong" its just an artifact of selective perception applied to a character who in virtue of their fictional and superhuman nature exhibits both qualities and doesn't fit into a system designed for real people. its also sort of how everyone is a Joss Wheadon film is also an A+ jokester on top of being whatever else they are. its writers who sat down and dreamed up these lines, combined with actors with other strong functions, and a script that crafts a narrative that is not bounded by finitude and principles of enantiodromia
There can be people like this in reality too lol.
I spelled a name wrong is hardly an argument for somebody being a racist....pull out the race and victim card now per your continued delusional ad hominem thread practice you batty schizophrenic...mental wards are full of paranoiac nutcrackers like yourself with an only tenuous grip on reality.
Calling you on your strawman hardly qualifies as haranguing you personally, you niffer the sympathy sniffer.
Furthermore, Chae didn't say anything to you. She just posted her arguments for his type and you come back with some insane rubbish about some alleged past event of her pretending to be beyonce and rihanna. This unsupported remote event you mention has nothing to do with her post you fruitloop.
Nobody needs your help realizing fictional characters aren't real people with perfect real personalities @Bertrand .
I actually thought though that the character development and portrayals for this film were extraordinary and were far from unrealistic or unbelievable.
What about the way you're treating me now and in the forum member typing thread for haranguing? Doesn't seem unwarrantedly aggressive? Not even slightly? Hm.
Down, boy.
depends on what you mean "like this"; inasmuch as it is a comparison that exists in your head you can reduce anything and everyone down to their similarities. they each have two legs, etc. it lacks nuance though, its the reason why there's a divide between great literary works and most popular entertainment. literature maintains that connection with real life sufficient to teach us something about ourselves that gives it a lasting or timeless quality (shakespeare, etc), whereas popular media is so overdone it gets the point across in virtue of its amplification but in doing so loses all relevance in time
inasmuch as people are "like this in reality" real life is just as entertaining as the movies, but it doesn't mean mumblecore is as entertaining as marvel. its people's inability to find the meaning that exists in the mundane that causes them to seek out meaning in films wherein the psychological forces present all around us are amplified into "gods" on the big screen so we can "get the message"--this amplification makes these characters more like symbols for primordial forces in play in the world and not real humans. in another sense these characters are like "daemons" which represent to us our own drives back at us within the context of a narrative that feels both important and is understandable, usually some kind of simplified international or world-existential conflict (we are actually living such a conflict as we speak, but people go to the movies to look at simplified representations of what already exists all around us--perhaps, in fact, to avoid doing precisely this looking). the point is however, these are abstractions devised by the imagination to play a very specific role in conveying a message and are not crafted so as to be "real" humans. if they were real movies would be just as entertaining as real life, its precisely in what differentiates popular fiction from life that makes psychological profiling of fictional characters inaccurate. very few works of fiction manage to capture the true essence of the human condition and when they do they are cherished as cultural achievements that last centuries
its interesting because many people tend to view people in terms of the low res box they put them in and so movies that do this are indistinguishable from the ethical significance or are even more significant than real life precisely because they make the box for the viewer, and perhaps even take them higher. in this sense its a lot like someone providing a product of any kind (Si, Fi, Ti, Te) etc for someone else to "hold", but it lacks sufficiency for anyone who can do it themselves. inasmuch as psychology is about grasping humans in their fullness and not reducing them these sort of characters will always be psychologically insufficient, but at the same time highly satisfying for someone approaching it from "underneath" in other words, if you experience people as bag of chips, going to a resturant is a step up. and you can say "its all food"-- the analogy here is if you experience people as one dimensional self interested apes, then you go to a movie you actually experience something worthwhile, and you can say from the top down, "they're all personalities" but its fundamentally a product of perspective. a chef who can cook for himself is not impressed by mcdonalds, and its his judgement that ultimately "sets the terms" for what constitutes the categories of quality or ultimate (real) scale of things. to do otherwise is what we call appeal to the lowest common denominator
I think you do, but moreover even if you don't--why doesn't that instantly make you realize that this argument over what personality type these characters are pointless? its like trying to ask what kind of orange a number is. perhaps its rooted in the need to see your subjective assessment of indeterminate item made real through social consensus? I can see that, inasmuch as it matters that what you believe SLE represents is important and you want to see it reflected in the world, but why not peg it to more than fictional representations, like put the emphasis where it belongs with real humans? because the battle to control the social consensus over the meaning of a fictional character seems somewhat trivial. of course perhaps this difference in opinion amounts to personality itself, where this kind of control is of great significance to beta quadra, so I grant that it is not trivial to you and can respect that. that makes quite a bit of sense to me, so I can see my interjection is not really pertinent to the interests of the people battling it out in this thread
Last edited by Bertrand; 02-27-2018 at 02:50 AM.
LOL
I'm retyping you IEE if you retype me SLI so we can be duals Kill4Me
That's the case with a number of fictional characters the points Bertrand makes.
Killmonger is a clear cut Se-dom, though....SEE is the only real alternative.
Ole Miss Canfield's primary confusion (there are many) stems out of her conflating motivation with cognition.
@Bertrand see the thread and forum title for the purpose of this. I can imagine you going up to someone sitting on a toilet asking them what the point of them being there taking a shit is.
Your problem with it is that you're IEE too and don't know it, obviously with an inflated Se role too. Might be why you can identify with his character since that's what you're implying without saying it.
yeah you're right, I projected my own value of wanting the discussion to prioritize relations between people over the symbolic significance of popular fictional character, so I assumed that a conflict over something so trivial (in my mind) cried out for resolution, but I can see perhaps that misses the point which is to engage in exactly that sort of activity. I will say this, you can argue it out and impose your point of view of whatever character as whatever type, but ultimately people will respond on a gut level regardless of what social consensus calls it, its precisely why Orwellian mind control always has rebels, but I can see that such a state where that kind of pursuit is valued in principle is not concerned with the minority or with the timelessness of the objective. in other words, this is an inherently oppressive activity, but I can understand that as far as outlets for such urges go this is a harmless and entertaining one for you
Let's take a look at Niffer's pathetic excuse for an argument:
These are just a summary of your conclusions about his character. You haven't provided a summary of facts for each conclusion or listed any concrete examples. Along with that, you haven't provided any reasoning from facts to conclusion that is based in socionic concepts. Chae's post provides not just conclusions but also the facts for her conclusions and reasoning from facts to conclusions using socionics. Huge difference between her argument and yours.the point could be made that he was highly aware of issues on a global scale and had very global-reaching thinking and planning. He also had a very nuanced understanding of the ideological issues (which are pretty abstract) that surrounded his situation, with Wakanda and Black Americans and the oppressed worldwide. He gave it an irrationally personal twist though, which even though was hateful and convoluted, was definitely empathizable with and had merit. He ended up being right that Wakanda should have done something to help all along. I would think that a Se ego type especially Se lead would be much more grounded and less convolutedly idealistic about this kind of thing.
@Bertrand It's not about what you said above (in your edit at the end of your long post). I haven't posted here in a long time. I just liked the movie and wanted to discuss character types for once. Like, use the forum for its intended purpose. Shoot me.
In the past I might have thought that way and tried to be controlling but that's not realistic as people will always latch onto stereotypes, and it's not a big deal usually.
im glad you did, this has been the most interesting thing to occur to me all day
... Everything I said was factually true LOL. You can also find many critical analyses of the film online which echo "my conclusions".
This is just more support for you being Ti polr.
It's cute and it suits you though, so don't worry.
Must be the voices inside your head saying it. Time for you to get back on your meds to help with your delusions.
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