Sirena: the other Beta NF?

[Sirena]

I'm slightly (very slightly) considering the possibility of being an EIE. I don't see how temperament would fit AT ALL though. I have a REALLY hard time thinking I could be an extrovert and a rational.

So honestly, yeah I'd never considered EIE before, but I have a slight curiosity now especially after a couple of people have mentioned I VI as one. Eh, also I think maybe I get along better with LSIs than SLEs. I mean, I find SLEs hotter, but I dunno. I feel like LSIs would be more receptive to my emotional states and would be more likely to give me the reassurance I need. I dunno though because I do feel like I need someone like an SLE to draw me out and initiate.

So I'd say that me being EIE is close to a shot in the dark, but what the hell, I've already gone through the other 3 NFs! Well, if ya'll could tell me what you think and why, that'd be peachy! Thanks!

[Simon Ssmall]

Well you were thinking you were an extrovert before haven't you? Why you can't see it now?

I still think IEI would fit better though. Try asking unelife or JuJu as they seem to go through the same. I think EIE's don't see themselves that much rational.

[duality is cringe]

You VI as IEE sweetie. I hate to see you doing this to yourself.

[ArchonAlarion]

=\ not seeing the Ni/Se tbh. You've got that Si/Ne softness.

sorriessssss

[Sirena]

=\ not seeing the Ni/Se tbh. You've got that Si/Ne softness.

sorriessssss

Riiiiight, i wish....I bet there's quite a few people in my life that would disagree with you.

[Creepy-male]

Oh, and FTR Yake, IEIs can seem quite soft. I know one at school like this. It almost seems as if he's made of air or something.

[Sirena]

Well you were thinking you were an extrovert before haven't you? Why you can't see it now?

I still think IEI would fit better though. Try asking unelife or JuJu as they seem to go through the same. I think EIE's don't see themselves that much rational.

Actually, I was never quite able to see myself as an extrovert. I remember talking about it with you and Cyclops and that was a big difference between you and I, but we chucked it up to different subtypes. I was totally trying to make a subtype describe my IEIness, while still being able to stay an IEE (I now realize).

[redbaron]

I'm with glam. I vote IEI

[Sirena]

Oh, and FTR Yake, IEIs can seem quite soft. I know one at school like this. It almost seems as if he's made of air or something.

Yeah, that's just another stupid Beta stereotype. We all go around cussing people out and cutting ourselves. Some things are just better done in private! j/k .

[Wynch]

You know, I find that IEI women seem a lot "softer" than IEI men. I think it may have to do with the fact that gender stereotypes have women as basically Beta NF and men as Beta ST. For that reason, women can get away with chilling out as a Beta NF, while the men seem to aim for the harder edges of "Se" qualities to try to be more "manly". That's not to say that the opposite can't be true (I would be the last person to say people need to fit gender roles ), but I think that's a logical explaination for what I see as a general trend.

[Ezra]

@DeAnte and AA: fuckfuckfuck


I think you could easily be either. More info.

I think it's generally pretty easy to differentiate between IP and EJ though. Probably even easier than to differentiate between EP and IJ. Especially SLE and LSI.

Have you read the wikisocion stuff?

[Sirena]

@DeAnte and AA: fuckfuckfuck

I think you left out the "off"

I think you could easily be either. More info.

I think it's generally pretty easy to differentiate between IP and EJ though. Probably even easier than to differentiate between EP and IJ. Especially SLE and LSI.

Have you read the wikisocion stuff?

Yeah, I've read it although it's been a while. I may need a refresher. I'll give it a read when I get some time later today. But based on what I remember reading from different sources, I'm IP all the way. I can't even relate to EP descriptions, much less EJ. So if it comes down to that, yeah no.

[JuJu]

I don't relate to the Ej descriptions at all--and I'm Ej.

Read them and think about other ENFjs, you know, John Lennon and Marilyn Manson... The description seems ridiculous compared with those it's describing.

ENFj is frequently the least Ej seeming of ESE, EIE, LIE, and LSE.

I'll put this in the Wiki descriptions when there's time.

[Slacker]

First, if you're IEI and people think you VI as EIE, that's close enough where I'd consider it pretty successful VI.

Second, I can see where in some people the Ej temperment might show up more sometimes when people are older than you are.

Obviosly I have no feeling for which you are but I wouldn't think the VI or temperment should decide it. Maybe read on the wiki about the difference between leading Fe and creative Fe, and leading Ni and creative Ni. See if one feels more right to you.

[Lotus]

You've always come across as IEE to me, but you already know that. I think you really VI as Delta NF, and I'm surprised anyone would say EIE tbh.

[JuJu]

this is an example of what I meant in the VI: what it is, misconceptions, and how to learn thread.

Everyone feels compelled to give their $0.02 re: typings, and many people, (no offense, Allie,) don't know how to do it correctly yet.

Thus the confusion.

Realistically, there should be no votes for "delta NF..." That there are signifies this forum has a way to go.

[Binky]

Realistically, there should be no votes for "delta NF..." That there are signifies this forum has a way to go.

I disagree. What other Beta NF females remotely resemble Sirena in any signifigant way? I haven't noticed any.

[JuJu]

VI, as I said in the big post in Main, is mostly in the eyes...

Compare Sirena's eyes, (if you have a photo on hand,) with Beta NF (borderline case between INFp-ENFj, just like Sirena,) Stevie Nicks' eyes:



TV host Rachel Maddow (left, lol,) is ENFj; however, like Sirena, she has the beta NF eyes

[Binky]

Hmmm, maybe. When I think of "Beta NF eyes," I think of Jake Gyllenhaal, Jennifer Carpenter, or ScarlettLux. Sirena comes off a bit different to me (her eyes lack the same "focus," especially in comparison to Stevie Nicks'). There are a few other Beta NFs I can think of who do have eyes with a somewhat similar look to Sirena, but I don't always find a consistent enough pattern to label it a signifigant VI match, but I see where you're coming from.

I still think Sirena's overall facial features are very compatible with IEE and looks very "Delta" to me.

[JuJu]

I'd be lying if I said it was a matter of opinion--that is, I wouldn't be doing anyone any good if I didn't stand by what's right and call out what's wrong.

In this case, I set forth beta correctly, and I now I will set forth delta so everyone can see the difference... I feel a bit bad being blunt, you know, but confusion will continue to reign over this forum until someone sets it in order.

These are delta eyes, (female ENFps of each subtype





One gets a totally different vibe from Sirena than from these Deltas.

[Binky]

I don't feel you are very blunt, and definitely not in an off putting way, so no worries.

Don't know about Locklear, she VIs well as ENFp (smile is like Sirena's as well), but her personality has always come off very different than any other I've known. I do see VI signifigant resemblences between Sirena, Cher, and these people.

Apparently, JuJu and I see very different things when looking at some of the same people.

[ArchonAlarion]

I see little to no similarity between Sirena and BnD, Strrrng, my sister, starfall, or even Glam.

There is a cord of steel beneath INFp's "soft" exterior that you just don't have.

[Sirena]

VI, as I said in the big post in Main, is mostly in the eyes...

Compare Sirena's eyes, (if you have a photo on hand,) with Beta NF (borderline case between INFp-ENFj, just like Sirena,) Stevie Nicks' eyes:

Oh wow, it startled me for a second there to see this picture when I opened the thread because I recognize myself in her eyes so much it's uncanny. Wow.

And I'm sorry but I feel no such similarity or even close when looking at Locklear or Cher. I know the vibe I get is completely alien to me. Ther is absolutely no doubt in my mind about the resemblance and lackthereof that I mentioned. So if that's what it comes down to, case closed.

Wow JuJu, I'm truly impressed. Thanks for bringing VI into the picture (no pun intended )!

@Archon: Wasn't it you that kept complaining about people misunderstanding your self-typing because they were basing it off of stereotypes and the stereotypical concept of what an ILE should be blah blah blah instead of looking at information metabolism, etc?

@everyone: I really do appreciate your comments and opinions. Keep sharing them. I'm not saying I'm completely closed off to any ideas at this point. I have an open mind and I like discussions. So keep expressing them!

[ArchonAlarion]

Well stereotypes are not bad in themselves. The whole point of typology is stereotypical.

Its the bad stereotypes im on about.

even then, I was more drawing attention to the fact that you are unlike those people in communication, which doesn't have much to do with stereotypes

[duality is cringe]

@Archon: Wasn't it you that kept complaining about people misunderstanding your self-typing because they were basing it off of stereotypes and the stereotypical concept of what an ILE should be blah blah blah instead of looking at information metabolism, etc?

I'm pretty sure that was about stereotypical behaviorial expectations, not VI.

[Sirena]

Here are some more pics of me. These were taken a couple of weeks ago, at my house (in my room by myself), not at work...so they're bound to represent me better. Now I'm all into this, haha. I'll try to find pics of me at different ages too!

[duality is cringe]

Look @ u all emo.

[Sirena]

Well stereotypes are not bad in themselves. The whole point of typology is stereotypical.

Its the bad stereotypes im on about.

even then, I was more drawing attention to the fact that you are unlike those people in communication, which doesn't have much to do with stereotypes

OK, I didn't express myself well. My point was that according to some people here you don't fit the mold of an ILE, yet you insist that you are one and that it's unfair that people say otherwise based on their preconceived notions. And I was referring to your comment about softness and my lack of similarity between other IEIs here. How is that different at all from your situation?

[Sirena]

I'm pretty sure that was about stereotypical behaviorial expectations, not VI.

Errr and that is exactly what I was commenting on. See my last post.

[duality is cringe]

You need an -PoLR HERO in your life.

[Sirena]

You need an -PoLR HERO in your life.

OMFG!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHA. Love it love it love it. Damn, you always find a way to make me laugh!

OK, I'm really late to a date, so byeeeeeeeeeee.

[ArchonAlarion]

well, my point is that ILE's are like me. Like all of them. Some, like BP are more chill.

But Vero, Hkkmr, Ephemeros, myself, well...

anywho.

[Not A Communist Shill]

well, my point is that ILE's are like me. Like all of them. Some, like BP are more chill.

But Vero, Hkkmr, Ephemeros, myself, well...

anywho.

I'm not seeing that. I don't think you've got that Si/Ne softness.

[ArchonAlarion]

well im pretty hard right now.

[Not A Communist Shill]

So that's an example for why I dont go by the stereotype stuff, and why I continue to type the way i do.

.

[ArchonAlarion]

okay, so I forgot the word "bad/prevalent"

sue me.

[Ezra]

Yeah, all the photos you've posted are basically Beta NF all the way. It's often difficult to tell the difference between EIE and IEI, because if you take EIE ScarlettLux, she can look (and even act) like an IEI, but this could just be because she's as confused as you, and often EIEs are good at projecting a certain image they want to project so that people will believe what they think they are (completely without bad intentions, and often totally unintentionally. They just do it). On the other hand, as I've said before, you could never mistake glam and Starfall for anything but IEI.

I think you left out the "off"

lol, no, I don't want them to fuck off. I just want them to recognise how RIDICULOUS their trains of thought are.

One more thing: you might already not do it, but in case you do, stop listening to:

-DeAnte (at least until he admits he is LSI, which I doubt he will, because his ideas about socionics are horribly skewered and it's very hard to get an LSI - ref. Ne PoLR - to change their mind about something)
-Binky
-Any of DeAnte's other aliases
-Anyone who thinks you are Ne/Si (including AA, Allie and dolphin)

These people will only serve to distort your thinking further, which is not what you want. An IEI needs clear, systematic thinking (which ironically, most of these people provide), but thinking that makes sense. None of what these people say makes any sense.

Yeah, I've read it although it's been a while. I may need a refresher. I'll give it a read when I get some time later today. But based on what I remember reading from different sources, I'm IP all the way. I can't even relate to EP descriptions, much less EJ. So if it comes down to that, yeah no.

If you really, really think you are instinctively IP, my advice is to go with your instincts. You're not stupid. They will turn out to be right.

OMFG!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHA. Love it love it love it. Damn, you always find a way to make me laugh!

OK, I'm really late to a date, so byeeeeeeeeeee.

This post is amazing.

[ScarlettLux]

Honestly -- I don't get Beta vibes from you. I've always thought you were an IEE and shall stick by that til further notice... the photos you've posted of yourself do not seem IEI at all to me either, they lack a certain je ne sais quoi that I associate with my Quadra members... Your whole aura, everything... when I saw your signature as IEI .... I was very, very hesitant to accept this. I didn't remember who you were til these recent pictures of you and now I recall your first typing as IEE

ETA: Ezra, you really feel that she's an IEI? Hmm... I am guessing an SLE like yourself with muchos experience with female IEIs on this forum should be able to recognize another one, so I am wondering at your rationale for this.

[duality is cringe]

Honestly -- I don't get Beta vibes from you. I've always thought you were an IEE and shall stick by that til further notice... the photos you've posted of yourself do not seem IEI at all to me either, they lack a certain je ne sais quoi that I associate with my Quadra members... Your whole aura, everything... when I saw your signature as IEI .... I was very, very hesitant to accept this. I didn't remember who you were til these recent pictures of you and now I recall your first typing as IEE

Agreed. Compare Sirena's pics in the Official Members' Picture Thread and observe the correlation between Locklear, Cher and Sirena. Sirena is just confused because she's clearly one of these people and this pretty much proves it. I think she also probably has unfair perceptions of what the non-Beta quadras value.

ETA: Ezra, you really feel that she's an IEI? Hmm... I am guessing an SLE like yourself with muchos experience with female IEIs on this forum should be able to recognize another one, so I am wondering at your rationale for this.

Considering the considerable amount of insight into your own quadra mates you displayed in your previous paragraph, I'm surprised you buy into Ezra's laughable self typing of SLE. Unless you were being sarcastic?

Either way, please check the bottom of my sig.

[Ezra]

ETA: Ezra, you really feel that she's an IEI? Hmm... I am guessing an SLE like yourself with muchos experience with female IEIs on this forum should be able to recognize another one, so I am wondering at your rationale for this.

I'm not so much claiming she's a definite IEI as telling her that if she feels it's her type, she should go with it. IEIs are good at being able to determine abstract shit like that, but the problem is that very often they have little confidence in what they're determining. This is why I encourage an IEI whenever he or she has a 'certainty'; it's a rarity, and because I value highly IEI input, I deem it necessary to give them a 'push' in the right direction if they need it.

FTR, I definitely see her, like you, as one of the 'unclear' Beta NFs; someone who is clearly a Beta NF but who is neither fo' sho one or the other'.

Either way, please check the bottom of my sig.

Mate, no one cares.