Allie

[Mediator Kam]

She clearly relies on Fe-based communications, along with her dynamic range of emotions that she is so apt to show on the forum. I cannot say I know much about her because we talk about oncee every 3 months, but what I do know doesn't ring with Fi base, especially blocked with Se. If ESI's are known to be "self-righteous" and "judgmental" at times, then Allie attempts to be the exact opposite of that stereotype, calling people out on their judgmental attitudes.

I consider ESI-Se to be an impossibility, along with any other Fi valuing type(maybe).

Discuss?

[Khamelion]

I need to talk to her more.

[Joy]

Fe/Ti

[xyz]

I loathe her so.

Pump her full of vyvanse!

[FDG]

I loathe her so.

Pump her full of vyvanse!

yes!

[Mediator Kam]

haha, as you know, I'm no gamma champion and I am ESFp retarded, never met one as far as I know, so this is nice to get some other opinions.

[Bardia]

I can't speak for whether or not "she attempts to be the exact opposite", but everything else you've said doesn't necessarily contradict Fi-creative. The percieved "Fe-based communication" could be an 8th function or even Se ribaldry by itself. While ESFp arguably value Fi, including its "self-righteousness", as much as any other Gamma, the irrationality allows for a more flexible standard -- presumably based upon the practical consequences on interpersonal bonds, this opposed to a more rigid ethical framework with more specific guidelines for every behavior.

While that could be true that the apparent Fe might be more Se, I have yet to see her focus on anything related to Fi.

[FDG]

I saw sparks fly, from the corner of my eye
And when I turned, it was love at first sight
I said please excuse me, I didn't catch your name
Oh it'd be a shame not to see you again
And just when I thought she was comin' to my door
She whispered sweet and brought me to the floor, she said

I'm only seventeen, but I'll show you love like you've never seen
She's only seventeen, daddy says she's too young, but she's old enough for me

Come to my place, we can talk it over, oh everything going down in your head
She said take it easy, I need some time, time to work it out, to make you mine
And just when I thought she was comin' to my door
She whispered sweet and brought me to the floor, she said

I'm only seventeen, you ain't seen love, ain't seen nothing like me
She's only seventeen, seventeen
(Solo)
Such a bad girl, loves to work me overtime
Feels good (ha), dancin' close to the borderline
She's a magic mountain, she's a leather glove
Oh she's my soul, it must be love

She's only seventeen, still she gives me love, like I've never seen
She's only seventeen, daddy says she's too young, but she's old enough for me
She's everything I need, daddy says she's too young
But she's old enough, old enough for me

[Steve]

She clearly relies on Fe-based communications, along with her dynamic range of emotions that she is so apt to show on the forum. I cannot say I know much about her because we talk about oncee every 3 months, but what I do know doesn't ring with Fi base, especially blocked with Se. If ESI's are known to be "self-righteous" and "judgmental" at times, then Allie attempts to be the exact opposite of that stereotype, calling people out on their judgmental attitudes.

I consider ESI-Se to be an impossibility, along with any other Fi valuing type(maybe).

Discuss?

Trust your intuitions, they're correct

[aestrivex]

She clearly relies on Fe-based communications, along with her dynamic range of emotions that she is so apt to show on the forum. I cannot say I know much about her because we talk about oncee every 3 months, but what I do know doesn't ring with Fi base, especially blocked with Se. If ESI's are known to be "self-righteous" and "judgmental" at times, then Allie attempts to be the exact opposite of that stereotype, calling people out on their judgmental attitudes.

I consider ESI-Se to be an impossibility, along with any other Fi valuing type(maybe).

Discuss?

concur.

[aestrivex]

Fuck Socionics. Fuck, fuck, fuck. I can't take it anymore. It's wrong. Messed up. Socionics intertype relations descriptions are bullshit. Allie was my cool dual. But now she isn't my dual. I hate this place. Fuck Socionics. It isn't worth it anymore.

maybe you're SLE.

[Lotus]

She clearly relies on Fe-based communications, along with her dynamic range of emotions that she is so apt to show on the forum.

This is probably the most annoying assumption made about me on this forum. Why am I Fe valuing? I don't rely on Fe-based communication. And I've mentioned many times in the past (without realizing that it was Socionics related) that if people treat my external expression as a form of communicating my inner emotional state then they are NOT going to understand me at all.
Wikisocion describes the ESI's Ignoring function in a way I strongly relate to:

Id block

With blocked with in their Id, ESIs are confident in their ability to promote a pleasant, cozy emotional and sensorial atmosphere in themselves and others, and in their evaluation of such matters; but they regard them as a source of amusement and not as a priority. Accordingly, they tend to be put off by people who make such matters the top goals in their lives.

7. Extroverted ethics

The ESI is perfectly able to integrate in a group emotional situation, such as of people having fun and trading jokes, and sustain that mood in himself for a long period of time. The ESI is also usually adept at promoting such an atmosphere himself. However, he sees no point in doing so if his own inner emotional state does not prompt him towards that, especially if he does not have positive private feelings towards the other people involved.

The ESI is aware of the need to keep a "polite façade" in certain social and professional situations, even in the presence of people he personally dislikes, or during periods of negative inner emotions, but he refuses to actively attempt to integrate in, or promote, a positive external emotional atmosphere in such occasions: to the ESI, that would mean crossing the line from politeness into hypocrisy. The ESI's disinclination for doing so increases along with his feelings of closeness with the individuals present.

Accordingly, the ESI is very confident in spotting when another person is "spoiling" a group emotional atmosphere without noticing it, and will discreetly warn that person if the ESI judges it to be advisable in that situation. However, the ESI does not regard such social missteps as a character flaw in the person, and may even be reassured by this kind of awkwardness.

The ESI's ability to merge into a pleasant social atmosphere if he sees no strong reasons for not doing so, and yet actively go against it if he considers it called for, may be perceived as intentional "bitchiness" by those more sensitive to .

I want to know how I contradict that. And this:

Ego block

With blocked with in their ego block, ESIs' primary focus in life is on stable inner criteria for personal relationships, therefore ethical principles through which they evaluate their own and others' behavior and ideas, backed by input from what they perceive as the real world and how people really are rather than idealism, imagination or not-demonstrated potential in people.

1. Introverted ethics

The ESI sees reality primarily through static personal ethics and stable interpersonal bonds between individuals, including himself, where the status of such interpersonal bonds is determined by his personal ethics. The ESI is very confident in evaluating the ethical or moral qualities, and their consistency, of other people as well of himself. This makes ESIs seem "judgmental" or "self-righteous" to people less so inclined. If an ESI has difficulty in deciding the status of a personal relationship, he will take action to try to reach a conclusion, but if that continues to elude him, he will regard the relationship as not worth it. His own sense of constancy in personal ethics and in his relationships with others is a very strong factor in his sense of self-worth.

This is manifested as a very high regard for personal loyalty and integrity, both on the part of the ESI and of others towards each other and towards the ESI. The idea that he failed on that is extremely upsetting to an ESI, and such a suggestion, made by others, is seen as the ultimate insult if the ESI himself does not agree. The same goes for accusations of unethical or unprincipled behavior that the ESI regards as unjustified.

ESIs are very often more confident of the status of a personal relationship - and of what it should be in their view - than other persons; therefore ESIs often take it upon themselves to establish, maintain, preserve, or change the status of such relationships.

Why do I think is my leading function?

Leading Function
The leading function, also called the base, program, or simply first function, is an individual's most dominant psychic [url=http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Function]function[url]. It describes in general terms the person's most comfortable thinking patterns, perspective on life, state of mind, and behavioral style as well as their positive motivational forces (what they pursue most vigorously when they have a choice). The leading function is critical to interpersonal dynamics because people constantly and inadvertently make judgments, assessments, and assumptions based on it. These comments and judgments portray a particular set of core values and share a common vector or general message, and those who the person interacts closely with must be accepting of this message for interaction to be cohesive and compatible.

Generally speaking, the leading function perceives, processes, and produces information most intensively. [b]When a person "speaks" or "acts" from their leading function, they convey a sense of robust confidence and often begin to speak categorically, persuasively, and using exaggerations.

The few times I've made serious communication on here it was in regards to subjects that I could use comfortably. I'm sure most of you noticed I rarely post about anything Socionics related. It's difficult for me because I've come to find that the way I observe, take in, and process information is difficult to communicate to people. I relate strongly to the leading descriptions, though I've never realized this due to several reasons that I'll get into later if asked (reason #1). Posts about abortion, the death penalty, gay rights, ethics regarding the treatment of women, ethics regarding the treatment of forum members, etc. are the ones I've felt the most free and comfortable to express myself. And NO, I'm not saying Fi = talking about morals.

Fi, which is described as seeing reality primarily through static personal ethics and stable interpersonal bonds between individuals, including himself, where the status of such interpersonal bonds is determined by his personal ethics is not ideal for discussing subjects such as this. Things make sense to me in that aspect. To communicate an understanding of anything Socionics related is naturally going to be difficult (and embarrassing) for me so I've become cautious when attempting it.

"When feeling obliged to justify logically a personal decision taken for reasons determined by , the ESI attempts to do so but grows quickly annoyed especially if the inconsistency in the logical argument is pointed out. He then either explains the ethical motivation or avoids the issue altogether."

This is basically what happens to me whenever I try to discuss Socionics here. Rarely does a topic comes up where I can discuss things comfortably. But when it does, my real communication style is evident.


This is also why I'm dual-seeking btw.

ESIs are very keen to accumulate information on matters they find useful or just interesting, but they also need the company of persons with whom they can exchange evaluations as to the accuracy and usefulness of that information.

I'm intersected in Socionics and I'd love to communicate what I think. I just feel restricted. I really value people who can tell me the truth when I discuss my thoughts. People who make me more comfortable and able to speak my mind are ones that don't sugarcoat things and are honest about the accuracy and usefulness.... without harsh criticism.



*I can go into detail about these, but hopefully that's enough. I'm pretty sure about my typing for once.

[Ms. Kensington]

Fuck Socionics. Fuck, fuck, fuck. I can't take it anymore. It's wrong. Messed up. Socionics intertype relations descriptions are bullshit. Allie was my cool dual. But now she isn't my dual. I hate this place. Fuck Socionics. It isn't worth it anymore.

i know youre probably joking, but i have no idea why people think they can't like someone if they are not their dual.

im not criticizing, how could i when you have that cute of a voice.

[Ms. Kensington]

This is probably the most annoying assumption made about me on this forum. Why am I Fe valuing? I don't rely on Fe-based communication. And I've mentioned many times in the past (without realizing that it was Socionics related) that if people treat my external expression as a form of communicating my inner emotional state then they are NOT going to understand me at all.

this sounds like UDP talk. What? I'm not Fe. I don't use Fe. I am Fi. But thanks for referring to descriptions below. (and this is the first time i've seen you argue for the type, so not to imply that you haven't been more thorough in the past).

also Fe people don't have to use their outside to communicate their inner emotional state. In fact I associate this behavior with an Fi person more than an Fe person. Fe quadra will recognize "outward states" more readily as important. Or something.

[aestrivex]

This is probably the most annoying assumption made about me on this forum. Why am I Fe valuing? I don't rely on Fe-based communication. And I've mentioned many times in the past (without realizing that it was Socionics related) that if people treat my external expression as a form of communicating my inner emotional state then they are NOT going to understand me at all.

a gamma SFs emotional expression is a reflection of their internal state, especially for an ESI. period.

you seem to have no interest in expressing your internal state most of the time, rather relying on superficial external expression. Fe.

The few times I've made serious communication on here it was in regards to subjects that I could use comfortably. I'm sure most of you noticed I rarely post about anything Socionics related. It's difficult for me because I've come to find that the way I observe, take in, and process information is difficult to communicate to people. I relate strongly to the leading descriptions, though I've never realized this due to several reasons that I'll get into later if asked (reason #1). Posts about abortion, the death penalty, gay rights, ethics regarding the treatment of women, ethics regarding the treatment of forum members, etc. are the ones I've felt the most free and comfortable to express myself. And NO, I'm not saying Fi = talking about morals.

IEIs who object to her being IEI on ground that she's too Fi-polr-ish and doesn't have any connection to her emotions at all: as she's clearly laid out, you're wrong.

those kinds of posts and moral commentaries are very reminiscent of the audrey hepburn style of IEI.

This is basically what happens to me whenever I try to discuss Socionics here. Rarely does a topic comes up where I can discuss things comfortably. But when it does, my real communication style is evident.

This is also why I'm dual-seeking btw.

I'm intersected in Socionics and I'd love to communicate what I think. I just feel restricted. I really value people who can tell me the truth when I discuss my thoughts. People who make me more comfortable and able to speak my mind are ones that don't sugarcoat things and are honest about the accuracy and usefulness.... without harsh criticism.

no, you don't. your communications with me are rather glaring evidence to the contrary. if you think i'm ILI then i don't see how you could possibly suggest this.

and if you think i'm LII, then it is precisely the opposite of what you told me when i asked you about this very issue, of how ESI/ILI would make sense given our communications. which is duplicity that would be manipulative, Fe-based, and completely out of character for an ESI. and not appreciated.

[Steve]

I think the Fe preference is self-evident, as people are realizing.

[strrrng]

you seem to have no interest in expressing your internal state most of the time, rather relying on superficial external expression. Fe.

Maybe she only expresses it when she feels it is significant to do so? Her "superficial" expression in social settings does not have to be solely associated with (strong) Fe; not every observable emotion is a result of the Fe function. A lot of her "self-expression" seems to revolve around a search for stimulation, rather than an attempt to affect the emotional atmosphere.

Here is something about Te dual-seeking which reminded me of Allie's attitude towards understanding socionics:

The individual is attracted to people seen as knowledgeable, as well as truthful and willing to share that knowledge, in matters seen as interesting and useful to him towards achieving productivity and efficiency. Reliable information rather than the finished analysis is what attracts the individual

Now think about previous comments regarding her tendency to accept my and Ashton's explanations for her being various types in the past. Wouldn't it make a decent amount of sense that she saw us as "reliable sources" who could provide accurate knowledge and give her the objectivity she was seeking? It also says that reliable information is prioritized over the finished analysis. That seems to be her attitude, as an IEI would seek more of a logical clarity in explanations about his/her type to bring some certainty to his mobilizing function. Allie, however, has always seemed averse to Ti descriptions of functions and her behavior, most notably when hotelambush would give his personal analyses of her actions. She seemed to ignore it, despite the systematic presentation (aside from a few dumb comments about violent love = FiSe, lol), which would suggest Ti role - ignoring the structural logic when it contradicts her own personal convictions (Fi).

[strrrng]

I think the Fe preference is self-evident, as people are realizing.

No one is "realizing" anything. Just because Kamangir made some premature analysis of her behavior and niffweed attributes all of her observable self-expression to an Fe creative attempt to affect the emotional atmosphere, does not mean some great truth is dawning on people.

And frankly, this thread doesn't need a commentator. If you're so certain she's Fe valuing, how about providing an argument of your own, rather than slipping in comments that add nothing to the quality of the thread.

[strrrng]

No. I mean it. Somehow my fucking stupid idealist mind thought that duals had this special connection. But fuck me for thinking I could ever have a special connection with my dual. Fuck me for thinking I could ever have a special connection with anyone. I can never depend on people to be fucking honest because they're always so worried about hurting my fucking feelings. You can be honest, Ms. K. C'mon. Be criticizing. Lay it out. Tell me what an emo crazy emotional cunt I am. Tell me how inconsistant, and shallow, and dumb I am. Tell me how they would rather patronize me than react to me. Tell me they won't take me seriously, because they can't be bothered with the whiny little bastard. Bitch slap me. I love bitch slaps. I won't fucking crumble. It's not like I can go any lower.

Marry me.

[Lotus]

a gamma SFs emotional expression is a reflection of their internal state, especially for an ESI. period.

I never said emotional. I'm referring to the judgments made from my forum posts. WHERE I USE BIG LETTERS EVEN THOUGH I'M NOT REALLY ANGRY! ADFUHAKSDJFH;L!

you seem to have no interest in expressing your internal state most of the time, rather relying on superficial external expression. Fe.

Negative.

MY BIG CAPITAL LETTERS ARE AMUSING BUT THEY DONT EXPRESS ANGER. And why would I tell the forum about my internal state? This is not important to me.

Observe me on stickam. On camera my emotional expression is very much accurate in regards to my internal state.

and if you think i'm LII, then it is precisely the opposite of what you told me when i asked you about this very issue, of how ESI/ILI would make sense given our communications. which is duplicity that would be manipulative, Fe-based, and completely out of character for an ESI. and not appreciated.

You only talk to me to either A) spam my IM window with nonsense or to B) discuss my type.

When we discuss my type, everything I say is nonsense, irrelevant, stupid, etc. to you. Although it's frustrating to talk to someone who doesn't understand what I'm saying, these aren't type related differences. Because you generally say it in a way I can appreciate, which is to cut me off quickly before I go too in depth. I hate that.

[strrrng]

I was hoping for a bitch slap. You and your fucking omnibeta airs. You fucking disappoint me.

Fine, bitch. Beg for mercy as I torture you endlessly.

[strrrng]

I never said emotional. I'm referring to the judgments made from my forum posts. WHERE I USE BIG LETTERS EVEN THOUGH I'M NOT REALLY ANGRY! ADFUHAKSDJFH;L!

Yeah, your emotional behavior never seems as deliberate as other Fe ego types on here. You may make a joke or have some undertone in a post, but it always seems like you're simply doing it without realizing, or just don't give a fuck about it's effect. This goes well with strong, unvalued Fe.

Negative.

MY BIG CAPITAL LETTERS ARE AMUSING BUT THEY DONT EXPRESS ANGER. And why would I tell the forum about my internal state? This is not important to me.

Observe me on stickam. On camera my emotional expression is very much accurate in regards to my internal state.

The fact that you don't care to express your inner state significantly would lend itself away from Fe ego. Fi ego would probably have enough confidence and value in that function to only express it when they felt it was truly significant, as I previously stated. An Fe ego type would probably be more prone to expressing their feelings more frequently, to make sure everyone is on the same wavelength, so to speak.

You only talk to me to either A) spam my IM window with nonsense or to B) discuss my type.

When we discuss my type, everything I say is nonsense, irrelevant, stupid, etc. to you. Although it's frustrating to talk to someone who doesn't understand what I'm saying, these aren't type related differences. Because you generally say it in a way I can appreciate, which is to cut me off quickly before I go too in depth. I hate that.

This is something I suspected but didn't comment on. I know that niff can be a curt ass with people he deems aren't worth his time, and it is possible that after multiple unsuccessful attempts to converse with Allie, he figured this was the case. Either way, his attribution of her reticence to discuss ideas with him to a Te polr was probably hasty, as it was based mainly on personal reactions and could have had multiple causes.

[munenori2]

No. I mean it. Somehow my fucking stupid idealist mind thought that duals had this special connection. But fuck me for thinking I could ever have a special connection with my dual. Fuck me for thinking I could ever have a special connection with anyone. I can never depend on people to be fucking honest because they're always so worried about hurting my fucking feelings. You can be honest, Ms. K. C'mon. Be criticizing. Lay it out. Tell me what an emo crazy emotional cunt I am. Tell me how inconsistant, and shallow, and dumb I am. Tell me how they would rather patronize me than react to me. Tell me they won't take me seriously, because they can't be bothered with the whiny little bastard. Bitch slap me. I love bitch slaps. I won't fucking crumble. It's not like I can go any lower.

<----not patronizing

And frankly I think everyone here pretty much loves you (also not in a patronizing way). lol, you might be a little inconsistent, but I really don't see why that would be listed alongside any negative traits.

[strrrng]

Allie and big explanatory Ti systems don't mix... simple as that.

Exactly.

Honestly, if she's an ENTp, she would have to have an IQ of < 70, her age notwithstanding. But she's a very bright, intelligent girl, so that can't be true.

dolphin, enough histrionic self-expression, your cramping my Si-seeking. Don't make me dualize you into a bloody pulp.

LOL

I haven't felt pain in a long time, only dull apathy. I want to feel alive. Bring it on.

I'll bring the chains and whips.

the bolded IS the definition of Fe.

Exactly, lol. Fe ego types are more likely to engage in frequent expression of their internal state to create a smooth emotional atmosphere (or affect it in some way). Fi ego types would be more certain of the validity/significance of their internal feelings, regardless of whether they are expressed or not.

[Mediator Kam]

Then wtf were all this enormous "Ti" explanations that allie wrote when she was taking medicine for her ADHD? I am still under the assumption that the medicine was calming her and allowing her to use her HA more easily. Everyone was like "omg so much Ne, so much Ti here, ENTp for sure!" The only thing I saw in her huge dissertations were . I recall her writing to me in mid-june about a matches music video. Maybe she still has the writing, I don't. But all I know, it was Ti-based and although the subject matter was inconsequential, I was a bit interested on how she laid it all out.

/end.

[strrrng]

Dolphin stfu. PM me for violent cyber sex.

[strrrng]

I recall her writing to me in mid-june about a matches music video. Maybe she still has the writing, I don't. But all I know, it was Ti-based and although the subject matter was inconsequential, I was a bit interested on how she laid it all out.

Thank you for reciting a personal recollection which sheds absolutely no light on the claim that it makes.

[Mediator Kam]

Thank you for reciting a personal recollection which sheds absolutely no light on the claim that it makes.

That was a very cute post Nick.

[Creepy-bg]

Dolphin is sexy when she gets confrontational

[Bardia]

Allie, mind pointing me in the direction of a post of yours that contains Fi or where you feel like you really expressed yourself? or talk about a situation like this?

[strrrng]

That was a very cute post Nick.

I wasn't trying to be cute. I was merely pointing out the complete lack of substance in your post, in regards to supporting your argument. Specifics from that story or quoting posts of Allie's would have helped.

[Creepy-bg]

NO. YOU'RE fucking sexy, Bionic. I think I'm Si-ESTj. Fuck Alpha.

I AM fucking sexy!

[Lotus]

Allie, mind pointing me in the direction of a post of yours that contains Fi or where you feel like you really expressed yourself? or talk about a situation like this?

Most recent post was with UDP.

More serious: Ezra did something happen in your life that is making you focus on socionics so much? You seem to be overdoing it. Maybe you need a break or something.

Wow, you're an ass. What makes you think you're capable of judging how other people live their lives? You don't know how much focus someone puts into this in their real lives, you don't know whether that amount is "overdoing it" or not, and you definitely don't know enough about Ezra to take your petty assumptions, make judgments about him, and then express them under the misnomer "advice." Heh, that's not asshole. That's just being an ignorant, moralizing prick. Honestly, go fuck yourself, you piece of shit.

I find people interesting. I'm not really overdoing it, as I explained that I devote around 10% of my life it. Or was it 5%? Can't remember.

I like you, Ezra. But please, don't give him the satisfaction of responding with clarification for his groundless conjectures. This wasn't even necessary. If you defend yourself you're implying that if what he said was valid, it would actually matter. Even if you did spend a lot of time on here, it's not up to him to decide that. Don't bother explaining yourself.

This was enough:

Bottom line is, fuck off, UDP, and worry about yourself.

Haha <3

[Mediator Kam]

I wasn't trying to be cute. I was merely pointing out the complete lack of substance in your post, in regards to substantiating your argument. Specifics from that story or quoting posts of Allie's would have helped.

I fully understand this. As I said, I do not have her pm anymore, so I cannot substantiate my claim. I am sure if Allie has it, she would oblige.

[tereg]

Hey Dolphin.

It's Theo again.

<----not patronizing

And frankly I think everyone here pretty much loves you (also not in a patronizing way). lol, you might be a little inconsistent, but I really don't see why that would be listed alongside any negative traits.

THIS


Ok, talk to you later! Always nice to catch up with you.

[tereg]

Oh fuck. I think Theo doesn't do bitch slaps either. Except, that one time he whipped the fuck out of Rmcnew. Theo, don't tell me you think Mcnew is sexy.

Fuck that piece of shit.

[Bardia]

Think you could give me some sort of link? I tried looking around a little but I have no idea which thread you are referring too.

[Mediator Kam]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ewpost&t=20564

second page.

[Khola aka Bee]

Kam your Avatar is fekkin awesome. Katy Perry rocks!

[Bardia]

I am choosing to resign from this as I am confused and need more time to sort my thoughts and more information.