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Are my problems relatable to the functions?
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Last edited by Reyne; 04-03-2020 at 05:03 PM.
I'm sure there can be relations to functions but ive noticed myself that its much better to try to forget the whole theory for awhile and get a new approach. Socionics can work in a negative way as a defence mechanism that prevents one to look deeper into oneself.
Socionics is great. Its just that its limited to cognitive functions and there is so much more personality in us.
The feeling of being watched as unconscious desire for attention was a very interesting interpretation.👍
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
I think certain types can be more susceptible to certain problems, but I think the jury is out on whether the problems are caused by a person's type, or whether the person's type is caused by the problems, or whether the person is simply more sensitive to certain problems.
The problem you describe, of being harshly judged by others, is one I have seen repeatedly in both ILI's and in SLI's, and while I'm sure it is not specific to those types, they are, to me, the types that illustrate it the best.
I have worked with brilliant ILI's who are either dead set on keeping their work under the radar so it won't be publicly judged, or are unable to produce radical new designs because they would be subject to a design review. Also, if there were some failure down the line of the design, that would be devastating. I differ from ILI's in this respect; I can publicly defend a design and can accept criticism, mainly because I know that no one else is capable of even getting that far, and I also don't give a fuck.
I also have an SLI father and ex-wife (both Fe-PoLR), and both are brilliant and both stay under the radar. They both had incredibly critical parents who made them feel ashamed of themselves for being who they were and for reflecting badly on their parents for not being perfect. (LSE's, for the record.) Neither of them say much about this, but the hurt runs deep.
My SLI son, on the other hand, was raised by his mother and me, and was unconditionally accepted by her (I married her because I knew she'd be a good mother) and respected by me, and he turned out to be well-adjusted, while still being a bit sensitive to criticism (who isn't?). But he tries new things all the time, so it is possible to be a certain type (Fe-PoLR) and not be too bent by it, assuming you feel safe enough to risk failure.
My suggestion for you, at this point, is to find someone to hang with who accepts you and encourages you to try new things, even if they don't turn out perfectly.
I say this because I've tried many times to fix some aspect of myself by imagining me to be different, and it never, ever worked as well as just putting myself into a situation with other people where I was able to win for a change.
Through small victories, we advance.
There are some enneagram-related points that you might want to look into as well. Specifically E5, E3. Reading aboutcould also help.
Your issue with competition reminds me of my LII friend's problems. He has this kind of attitude with wanting to be competitive yet feeling inferior all the time (despite him being really smart and successful in some things) and I'm not sure if he isn't just forcing the competitiveness on himself and it's not his natural preference. Idk otherwise if it's type related.Originally Posted by Reyne
I'd say Enneagram 3w4/4w3. They are most likely to compete from an underlying sense of inferiority. Yes, even the 3w4s.
You also seem, so probably LII-Ti.
So it depends whether you type as LII or not!
cp6w7-3w2-8w7 sx/so ILE--D
@Reyne E3 is either core type or second. I wish you a good recovery. <3
Are you sure? OP actually sounds sx/so 4w3.
cp6w7-3w2-8w7 sx/so ILE-
What is it that makes him think your nervous system has gone overboard? So you have to take medication along with the psychotherapy?
Btw, for feeling like you are watched all the time, it doesn't help to look up/around and check if you are actually being watched?
For my friend it started when his IEI ex dumped him and strongly criticized his Se PoLR stuff in the process.Do you think E3 would be high in the tritype, or would it be the second or third type?
Yeah, it's like competitiveness isn't part of my personality, but I feel forced to be competitive.
I don't remember the exact details or I'd say that instead of just "Se PoLR" but it was something to do with his attitude being so unsure and clumsy, him not being able to do things, etc. This was ofc from the pov of the IEI. I wouldn't have the same expectations for example or see it in this bad light the IEI did. Like, ok, maybe he's not good at household chores and a few other things but he's very intelligent (and a few other positive things). And btw, that also means some people may not accept you the way you are, sure but others will. I agree with @Adam Strange about finding a better, more accepting environment.
FWIW, he sees himself as a type 5, I think it's possible that he's 5w4 core with strong 3.
Last edited by Myst; 07-04-2017 at 02:33 PM.
NTR imo. Possibly enneagram-related depending on your preferred pattern of worrying.
Unsolicited advice:
From personal experience, the less you harshly judge yourself for all sorts of random and non-random shit, the less likely you are to feel this wild and wide vacillation between inferior/superior, acceptable/unacceptable. Your thoughts are the map, not the territory. What you think other people think of you/pay attention to is 99.99% of the time an exact reflection of the ways you judge and evaluate yourself, for better or for worse.
One thing I've found helps a lot is to describe what your thoughts are doing to yourself while it happens: "I notice that I just judged myself for XYZ", "I have the feeling of being anxious", "I notice that I imagined XYZ scenario which caused me to have the feeling of being anxious", etc. After enunciating that description to yourself, actively pick a different subject to think about. Don't try to just not think about it, that's like telling someone not to think of pink elephants.
The point is to slowly break the jump from Having A Feeling to Only The Feeling Exists. Heads up: it gets boring fast because there's a large volume of such thoughts to process, but that's the point. It makes the mechanism boring and less rewarding to keep up.
Someone else I know has had success with a completely opposite process though. They (they say) realised that the thoughts they have inform the way they will process the world, and now actively think about happier things. The angry, anxious etc. thoughts get derailed fast as a matter of policy and treated as irrelevant. This does mean that they don't have a very good memory, because they don't go back over events much.
This is someone who had huge anxiety and anger problems, and you wouldn't guess so from meeting them now. Little and often does the trick, it just takes a long time.
tl;dr: Your mind is not your friend. It's a huge liar.
Reason is a whore.
@Reyne
I think that opening up on this level is very courageous of you and I relate to your struggle. I will be honest and admit that I found the therapist's suggestion that your feeling watched is an unconscious desire for attention since you rarely get any to be fishy or just phrased in way that does not do justice to their initial idea. It sounds like omnipotence of thoughts and then there is the need for validation to maintain a self-image and not feeling good enough. You also hinted at c-PTSD..
Thought that as well, we should appreciate the openness and bravery. It takes guts to do this.
Maybe changing friends could help, if it s not too late.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Very good advice. If a plant is withering (not completely fading) or having growth problems, you change the environment: water, earth, place. Then see what happens. The same applies to people.
You definitely want a positive environment with people for yourself. My suggestion is similar to FDG's with that. At the minimum initially, if you can do it, by all means, entirely leave the current negative environment to get some rest from the repeated stress. And of course rework incorrect cognitive schemas (e.g. your belief about the constant competition thing) in the psychotherapy. Also, I hope the psychotherapist is someone you can find yourself well connecting with (not possible with every of them, this is quite individual too), it makes therapy more effective. Wish you luck!
Heh, Ti ego I presume?
Depending on what schemas he has wrong and how, it can be at least loosely type related. In theory anyway.
Interesting, this 99.99% number must vary by the individual. (What I assume about others vs what I do for judgments myself is very different in some cases for me.)Unsolicited advice:
From personal experience, the less you harshly judge yourself for all sorts of random and non-random shit, the less likely you are to feel this wild and wide vacillation between inferior/superior, acceptable/unacceptable. Your thoughts are the map, not the territory. What you think other people think of you/pay attention to is 99.99% of the time an exact reflection of the ways you judge and evaluate yourself, for better or for worse.
I do think changing the emotional attitude for the better is an important step for some issues but only if it's supported by a realistic viewpoint of the situation.One thing I've found helps a lot is to describe what your thoughts are doing to yourself while it happens: "I notice that I just judged myself for XYZ", "I have the feeling of being anxious", "I notice that I imagined XYZ scenario which caused me to have the feeling of being anxious", etc. After enunciating that description to yourself, actively pick a different subject to think about. Don't try to just not think about it, that's like telling someone not to think of pink elephants.
The point is to slowly break the jump from Having A Feeling to Only The Feeling Exists. Heads up: it gets boring fast because there's a large volume of such thoughts to process, but that's the point. It makes the mechanism boring and less rewarding to keep up.
Someone else I know has had success with a completely opposite process though. They (they say) realised that the thoughts they have inform the way they will process the world, and now actively think about happier things. The angry, anxious etc. thoughts get derailed fast as a matter of policy and treated as irrelevant. This does mean that they don't have a very good memory, because they don't go back over events much.
This is someone who had huge anxiety and anger problems, and you wouldn't guess so from meeting them now. Little and often does the trick, it just takes a long time.
Hmm. Why can't it also tell the truth? I like a quote from Jung on this. Maybe this is too off topic here thoughtl;dr: Your mind is not your friend. It's a huge liar.
Could be, they'd probably be pretty subtle correlations though, and imo would need more fine-grained data than was provided so far.Depending on what schemas he has wrong and how, it can be at least loosely type related. In theory anyway.
Do you have any opinion on the matter @Reyne?
I did make up that percentage (such SCIENCE!), but it was to make the point that if you're not so invested in flagellating yourself then it seems less likely that you'd assume that others flagellate you ruthlessly too in the privacy of their own minds.Interesting, this 99.99% number must vary by the individual. (What I assume about others vs what I do for judgments myself is very different in some cases for me.)
Cf this sentence from @Reyne: "It's like a constant competition where everyone's watching me, ready to deride me because of my failures."
The whole of my post is specifically calibrated to dealing with a situation where (general) your anxious/other negative feelings are (iyo) interfering with the general running of your life ie: there is a specific distortion that needs managing. It does not address other situations where your general reactions to life are (iyo) mostly manageable and appropriate.I do think changing the emotional attitude for the better is an important step for some issues but only if it's supported by a realistic viewpoint of the situation.
Hmm. Why can't it also tell the truth? I like a quote from Jung on this. Maybe this is too off topic here though
Reason is a whore.
Well there'd be correlations to the degree of how valid this theory (Socionics) is...
But you use your mind to solve it, tooThe whole of my post is specifically calibrated to dealing with a situation where (general) your anxious/other negative feelings are (iyo) interfering with the general running of your life ie: there is a specific distortion that needs managing. It does not address other situations where your general reactions to life are (iyo) mostly manageable and appropriate.
Or if you were responding to the line on changing emotional attitudes, yes, the distortion needs to be changed to a realistic viewpoint.
bold = yes.But you use your mind to solve it, too
Or if you were responding to the line on changing emotional attitudes, yes, the distortion needs to be changed to a realistic viewpoint.
The mind is a many-faceted tool. *mystic cough*
Reason is a whore.
No. Never use typology for mental health issues. In fact, to fit everything into typology is a disease itself. It is a distorted cognition. See real help.
"Any technique, however worthy and desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it."
-Bruce Lee
"And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it, and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."
OP actually sounds like me lol.
You know one of the best things about therapy? You need a person to challenge your thoughts. You need inputs besides this system and your own head.
My last counselor dropped the fuckin hammer on me. lol. She would not put up with my shit. She wanted progress and results. And she challenged my views on the most fundamental level to the point where if I actually believe what I say, that I should get out of her office and stop wasting her time. She was yelling at me and pointing at the door." Get out. Your mind is made up. There is nothing to discuss." I was ready to go off on her and then realized I needed her.
I know I said dont use functions but this girl was using Te and or Se. She was hot as fuck too.
In general you will hear yes men on forums like this. Not what u need.
"And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it, and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."
I don't think OP takes typology that seriously...? He says it's just a fun game for him. I guess it's good if he keeps it on that level.
I guess different things work for different people, same for therapy too.
As long as your last counselor was correct about evaluating your issues, that's ok I guess... if not then that's dangerous actually if she tries to stick to it inflexibly :shrug
I personally think that it's best to acquire independence in thinking, just be open to other people's inputs, yeah.
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