Kim's type (split from "Breaking up with a dual")

[Eye of the Potato]

I agree. I had this feeling when I broke up with an ILI, but not with my dual (although that was painful, too). I don't think it has anything to do with duality. Duality is more effortless than other relationships, but emotional intensity is not type-related.

I read through some of your posts last night. (Don't worry I'm not singling you out, I do this with everybody who says they broke up with a dual) IEE's put everyone under the microscope, it's nothing personal.

Your posts struck me as very EIE. Have you considered this type before? In that case the ILI would have been your supervisor. The SLI would have been your conflictor. Have you ever been in a relationship with an LSI can I ask?

[Kim]

I read through some of your posts last night. (Don't worry I'm not singling you out, I do this with everybody who says they broke up with a dual) IEE's put everyone under the microscope, it's nothing personal.

Your posts struck me as very EIE. Have you considered this type before? In that case the ILI would have been your supervisor. The SLI would have been your conflictor. Have you ever been in a relationship with an LSI can I ask?

Really? I have never considered EIE because I don't identify with beta values. What about my posts strikes you as EIE?

I doubt my ex was my conflictor. The comfort level and mutual understanding was very significant. It was an effortless relationship on many levels. My current boyfriend is SLE and it takes much more effort to make it work. I have never been in a relationship with an LSI.

I really doubt I am EIE, but I am curious to hear what it is that makes you assume this type for me?

[Eye of the Potato]

Really? I have never considered EIE because I don't identify with beta values. What about my posts strikes you as EIE?

I doubt my ex was my conflictor. The comfort level and mutual understanding was very significant. It was an effortless relationship on many levels. My current boyfriend is SLE and it takes much more effort to make it work. I have never been in a relationship with an LSI.

I really doubt I am EIE, but I am curious to hear what it is that makes you assume this type for me?

I just got a feeling of EIE. It wasn't anything specific, just a general feeling.

I noticed from your political discussions, that there was a lack of alternative solutions posted by you. As an IEE, if I were having political discussions, I would offer a better way of doing things. I would give insights gained from many sources and use those insights to think up a better way to approach a problem. For instance, I was once in a debate about Capitalism vs. Socialism. I used the insights I got from a book called the tipping point, to argue that Socialism can't work when it is set up by a central government. The reason for this, was that when a groups size reaches 150 people, cohesion is lost and groups begin to splinter off. If Socialism had any chance of working, communities would have to be made up of 150 people.

I saw no evidence of you doing this, in any of your posts. In fact when someone argued with you, you berated them with things like "oh well I thought this was going to be an enjoyable conversation" and didn't really hear their side of the argument out. An IEE would try their hardest to understand where the other person was coming from, even if they didn't agree with what they were saying. An IEE might not always do this, but on the whole they would, and on the whole, you have not.

Also, you seem to flip/flop on typing others. And I have seen a few contradictions in how you describe your relations with different types. You mentioned being irked by an SLE at a party, citing his Se as being unbearable,yet you now claim to be in a relationship with an SLE (who you thought was SEE for a long time, they use Se too)

You say things went very smoothly with the SLI. I think you have misunderstood what duality is. It doesn't run as smooth as I think you have been lead to believe. The innitial running in period is anything but smooth, especially if both of you have had no experience with a dual growing up.

On closer inspection I am thinking you could possibly be SEE. It's hard to type someone from a forum and probably silly to do so, but I don't think you show much signs of being IEE. You might say you do things you think an IEE would do, but being tied to a certain type, it sometimes happens that people act the way they expect their type to act.

If you are SEE, it would explain why there weren't many misunderstandings with the SLI and it would also explain why you felt the way you did about the ILI. Assuming they were both typed correctly that is.

What is it specifically about beta values that you don't value?

And what is it about delta values that appeals to you?

[Creepy-female]

I just got a feeling of EIE. It wasn't anything specific, just a general feeling.

I noticed from your political discussions, that there was a lack of alternative solutions posted by you. As an IEE, if I were having political discussions, I would offer a better way of doing things. I would give insights gained from many sources and use those insights to think up a better way to approach a problem. For instance, I was once in a debate about Capitalism vs. Socialism. I used the insights I got from a book called the tipping point, to argue that Socialism can't work when it is set up by a central government. The reason for this, was that when a groups size reaches 150 people, cohesion is lost and groups begin to splinter off. If Socialism had any chance of working, communities would have to be made up of 150 people.

I saw no evidence of you doing this, in any of your posts. In fact when someone argued with you, you berated them with things like "oh well I thought this was going to be an enjoyable conversation" and didn't really hear their side of the argument out. An IEE would try their hardest to understand where the other person was coming from, even if they didn't agree with what they were saying. An IEE might not always do this, but on the whole they would, and on the whole, you have not.

Also, you seem to flip/flop on typing others. And I have seen a few contradictions in how you describe your relations with different types. You mentioned being irked by an SLE at a party, citing his Se as being unbearable,yet you now claim to be in a relationship with an SLE (who you thought was SEE for a long time, they use Se too)

You say things went very smoothly with the SLI. I think you have misunderstood what duality is. It doesn't run as smooth as I think you have been lead to believe. The innitial running in period is anything but smooth, especially if both of you have had no experience with a dual growing up.

On closer inspection I am thinking you could possibly be SEE. It's hard to type someone from a forum and probably silly to do so, but I don't think you show much signs of being IEE. You might say you do things you think an IEE would do, but being tied to a certain type, it sometimes happens that people act the way they expect their type to act.

If you are SEE, it would explain why there weren't many misunderstandings with the SLI and it would also explain why you felt the way you did about the ILI. Assuming they were both typed correctly that is.

What is it specifically about beta values that you don't value?

And what is it about delta values that appeals to you?

You sound Ti.

Here's a thread generally about Fi..http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...k-what-I-found

[Eye of the Potato]

You sound Ti.

Here's a thread generally about Fi..http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...k-what-I-found

Ha ha. Are you trying to wind me up?

What does Oprah have to do with anything? Is that all just part of the wind up?

[Creepy-female]

Ha ha. Are you trying to wind me up?

What does Oprah have to do with anything? Is that all just part of the wind up?

No, I'm not winding you up. The entire post you made to Kim was basically protesting her Ti polr. Yes, Ti polr. Newsflash, IEES HAVE TI POLR. Newsflash, you are probably not IEE. And no, it's not about Oprah, are you kidding me? You seriously could not see the point there? "WHAT DOES OPRAH HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING"?! Are you seriously cherrypicking a name that is included in the subject matter I posted to represent my point? Are you retarded?

[Eye of the Potato]

No, I'm not winding you up. The entire post you made to Kim was basically protesting her Ti polr. Yes, Ti polr. Newsflash, IEES HAVE TI POLR. Newsflash, you are probably not IEE. And no, it's not about Oprah, are you kidding me? You seriously could not see the point there? "WHAT DOES OPRAH HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING"?! Are you seriously cherrypicking a name that is included in the subject matter I posted to represent my point? Are you retarded?

The post I made was saying her posts lacked Ne insights. You know Ne insights? Alternative ways of looking at things?

That thread you linked me to had nothing to do with Fi. I was trying to be polite about it by saying what does Oprah have to do with anything.

NEWSFLASH!!! You don't know who you are talking to or what you are talking about.

[Kim]

I noticed from your political discussions, that there was a lack of alternative solutions posted by you. As an IEE, if I were having political discussions, I would offer a better way of doing things. I would give insights gained from many sources and use those insights to think up a better way to approach a problem. For instance, I was once in a debate about Capitalism vs. Socialism. I used the insights I got from a book called the tipping point, to argue that Socialism can't work when it is set up by a central government. The reason for this, was that when a groups size reaches 150 people, cohesion is lost and groups begin to splinter off. If Socialism had any chance of working, communities would have to be made up of 150 people.

Recent political discussions I have engaged in are not as involved as early ones. If you go back several years, you will find efforts to point out alternative scenarios, bringing in new information, linking to sources, etc. I had extensive discussions about political issues, international development questions, etc.

I saw no evidence of you doing this, in any of your posts. In fact when someone argued with you, you berated them with things like "oh well I thought this was going to be an enjoyable conversation" and didn't really hear their side of the argument out. An IEE would try their hardest to understand where the other person was coming from, even if they didn't agree with what they were saying. An IEE might not always do this, but on the whole they would, and on the whole, you have not.

I have known many people on here for many years and have debated with them before, so in many cases I know their point of view. And I don't think I berate people for disagreeing with me. I might do it when I think they attack me personally or become irate or something like that.

Also, you seem to flip/flop on typing others.

I don't think I flip/flop any more than others do. And isn't flip/flopping an IEE trait? Ne dominant / Ti PoLR = tendency to flip/flop

And I have seen a few contradictions in how you describe your relations with different types. You mentioned being irked by an SLE at a party, citing his Se as being unbearable,yet you now claim to be in a relationship with an SLE (who you thought was SEE for a long time, they use Se too)

The SLE at the party is an insecure SLE who tries to show off and grab all the attention in the room and it was extremely annoying and grating. My partner is a very confident SLE who does not see the need to show off. He does do some SLE posturing occasionally and it annoys me. They might be the same type, but with very different maturity and confidence levels.

You say things went very smoothly with the SLI. I think you have misunderstood what duality is. It doesn't run as smooth as I think you have been lead to believe. The innitial running in period is anything but smooth, especially if both of you have had no experience with a dual growing up.

I very strongly believe that duality is characterized by effortless mutual understanding. Of course there will be the initial awkwardness because even an IEE will have to assess SLI's Fe PoLR ("doesn't he like me or is he just stand-offish?"). I did go through a bit of that with my ex, but it was short and afterward it was a smooth ride in terms of knowing and catering to each other's needs. Whenever Slacker Mom talks about her SLI husband, I am reminded of my ex (they even look very similar). I also relate to what she says about their relationship (no verbal expression of love, but caring acts like putting gas in the car, bringing food home, taking me out for a ride, etc.).

On closer inspection I am thinking you could possibly be SEE. It's hard to type someone from a forum and probably silly to do so, but I don't think you show much signs of being IEE. You might say you do things you think an IEE would do, but being tied to a certain type, it sometimes happens that people act the way they expect their type to act.

SEE is the second possible scenario for me, but I have two very close SEE (Fi sub) friends and I am not quite like them.

If you are SEE, it would explain why there weren't many misunderstandings with the SLI and it would also explain why you felt the way you did about the ILI. Assuming they were both typed correctly that is.

There were far more misunderstandings and "hickups" with the ILI than with the SLI. The SLI and I broke up because of external circumstances. If our life plans had meshed, we would probably still be together.

What is it specifically about beta values that you don't value?

Beta, to me, has a rogue teenager / artsy / rebellious / aggressive air to it that I don't relate to. When I was younger I did, to some extent, and might have believed that I could be IEI, but I see more value in changing the world by doing good things for other creatures than by overthrowing the status quo.

And what is it about delta values that appeals to you?

I am not (generally) a calm person myself, so I enjoy being around deltas because they calm me down and want to take care of my needs. I see deltas as open-minded (and betas generally say the opposite of deltas) and generous.

[Kim]

The post I made was saying her posts lacked Ne insights. You know Ne insights? Alternative ways of looking at things?

That thread you linked me to had nothing to do with Fi. I was trying to be polite about it by saying what does Oprah have to do with anything.

NEWSFLASH!!! You don't know who you are talking to or what you are talking about.

Isn't this a bit ironic given what you say here:

An IEE would try their hardest to understand where the other person was coming from, even if they didn't agree with what they were saying.

It seems as if you only consider one scenario (nemo wants to wind you up) when there could be several motivations behind her post. You also say the thread has nothing to do with Fi, which sounds very categorical and doesn't leave room for possibilities.

I don't mean to question your type, but I wanted to point out the discrepancy.

[Creepy-female]

The post I made was saying her posts lacked Ne insights. You know Ne insights? Alternative ways of looking at things?

You were the one connecting Kim's statements and then making them mutually exclusive, not Kim.

That thread you linked me to had nothing to do with Fi. I was trying to be polite about it by saying what does Oprah have to do with anything.

Or maybe you don't understand Fi because you do not value it.

NEWSFLASH!!! You don't know who you are talking to or what you are talking about.

Hahaha I don't know who I am talking to? Are you the Prime Minister? Kim Jong II? And I sure as hell know what I am talking about.

[Eye of the Potato]

Isn't this a bit ironic given what you say here:



It seems as if you only consider one scenario (nemo wants to wind you up) when there could be several motivations behind her post. You also say the thread has nothing to do with Fi, which sounds very categorical and doesn't leave room for possibilities.

I don't mean to question your type, but I wanted to point out the discrepancy.

Well I thought either A) she was an idiot for posting what she posted or B) that she was winding me up. I went with B to give her the benefit of the doubt. The reason I thought she was an idiot for posting it, was because of how so many people in that thread argued about whether or not the article was related to Fi. Why post something that is so loosly related to Fi to try and prove a point? If anything it was Ne. Ne+Fi perhaps but definitely not Se+Fi, which makes it more Ne than anything. The article described how my mind works. I get people to step out of their either/or mode of thinking. I use Ne/Fi to do this. Not just Fi alone.

I don't let idiotic people talk down to me without saying something back. She asked me if I was retarded. I don't need to speculate as to where Nemo is coming from. It pretty obvious that she's a self important little shit who doesn't know as much as she thinks she knows. Be condescending and call people retarded and they will do the same back. Simple as.

[Eye of the Potato]

You were the one connecting Kim's statements and then making them mutually exclusive, not Kim.


Or maybe you don't understand Fi because you do not value it.


Hahaha I don't know who I am talking to? Are you the Prime Minister? Kim Jong II? And I sure as hell know what I am talking about.

Dream on fool.

[Eye of the Potato]

[

QUOTE=Kim;835418]Recent political discussions I have engaged in are not as involved as early ones. If you go back several years, you will find efforts to point out alternative scenarios, bringing in new information, linking to sources, etc. I had extensive discussions about political issues, international development questions, etc.

Fair enough. Can you remember anything that excited you specifically?

I don't think I flip/flop any more than others do. And isn't flip/flopping an IEE trait? Ne dominant / Ti PoLR = tendency to flip/flop

I never really flip/flopped on my type. I found a few people difficult to type, but on the whole I have typed people correctly, consistently. The ones I found difficult to type were people I didn't know very well. I think it is because IEE's see the essence of people. It's easier for us to type people.

The SLE at the party is an insecure SLE who tries to show off and grab all the attention in the room and it was extremely annoying and grating. My partner is a very confident SLE who does not see the need to show off. He does do some SLE posturing occasionally and it annoys me. They might be the same type, but with very different maturity and confidence levels.

Fair enough.

I very strongly believe that duality is characterized by effortless mutual understanding. Of course there will be the initial awkwardness because even an IEE will have to assess SLI's Fe PoLR ("doesn't he like me or is he just stand-offish?"). I did go through a bit of that with my ex, but it was short and afterward it was a smooth ride in terms of knowing and catering to each other's needs. Whenever Slacker Mom talks about her SLI husband, I am reminded of my ex (they even look very similar). I also relate to what she says about their relationship (no verbal expression of love, but caring acts like putting gas in the car, bringing food home, taking me out for a ride, etc.).

I don't agree with this. I have seen too many accounts of drama filled dual relationships for this to be true. Duals are very different. Mutual misunderstanding is bound to happen. The thing that keeps them together is the fact that they realise it was just a misunderstanding. They actually want the same things but have a different approach. With ego relations, you have misunderstandings coupled with wanting different things.

SEE is the second possible scenario for me, but I have two very close SEE (Fi sub) friends and I am not quite like them.

Do people often tell you that what you just said is deep? Is this one of the differences between you?

There were far more misunderstandings and "hickups" with the ILI than with the SLI. The SLI and I broke up because of external circumstances. If our life plans had meshed, we would probably still be together.

But your feelings for the ILI were more intense?

Beta, to me, has a rogue teenager / artsy / rebellious / aggressive air to it that I don't relate to. When I was younger I did, to some extent, and might have believed that I could be IEI, but I see more value in changing the world by doing good things for other creatures than by overthrowing the status quo.

IEE's hate the status quo. Ne likes change.

I am not (generally) a calm person myself, so I enjoy being around deltas because they calm me down and want to take care of my needs. I see deltas as open-minded (and betas generally say the opposite of deltas) and generous.

[/QUOTE]

Maybe you're gamma?

[Creepy-female]

Dream on fool.

You were the one that came into a thread questioning a senior member's type on the basis that YOU did not relate to her. You were the one who responded close-mindedly to a neutral source of information and an alternative opinion, as the person offering it being either stupid or winding you up. You were the one that decided that since YOU didn't understand the concept I am introducing, to make a retarded quip about Oprah when Oprah has nothing to do with the concept. And no, that was not polite in the slightest, so don't veil your attempt at bolstering your ego as you somehow trying to be polite. No, it's not all about the article, and yes, it's everything about Fi valuers in that thread elucidating concepts as they relate to Fi. Which I am still not convinced you value.

[Eye of the Potato]

You were the one that came into a thread questioning a senior member's type on the basis that YOU did not relate to her. You were the one who responded close-mindedly to a neutral source of information and an alternative opinion, as the person offering it being either stupid or winding you up. You were the one that decided that since YOU didn't understand the concept I am introducing, to make a retarded quip about Oprah when Oprah has nothing to do with the concept. And no, that was not polite in the slightest, so don't veil your attempt at bolstering your ego as you somehow trying to be polite. No, it's not all about the article, and yes, it's everything about Fi valuers in that thread elucidating concepts as they relate to Fi. Which I am still not convinced you value.

Ha ha a senior member! Give me a fucking break. What does someones post rank have to do with their understanding of Socionics?

She explained her situation with an SLI claiming he was her dual. I investigeted and asked her if she had considered EIE as her type. Since she flip/flopped so much, it was a fair question to ask. All I'm trying to do is establish whether or not her account of things goes against what Socionics says about duality or not. There is one thing I am not, and it is close minded.

Like I said, you don't know me from Adam, you don't know who I am or what I am about, so just fuck off with your condescending bullshit posts. And before you start quoting me as assuming a type for Kim, just forget it. I said I got a feeling of EIE, and that now I am leaning towards SEE. I never chategorically stated anything.

Edit- Why don't you read back over my previous post to KIm. I told her the reason I thought you were an idiot for posting that article. It was stupid because it was such a lame way to make a point. If you want to make a point about Fi, try using something that actually relates to Fi. Does Se/Fi work the same way as Ne/Fi? No it doesn't. That's my point. Genius.

Thanks by the way. It's nice to be able to vent and express what I really feel towards idiots. I had to be nice to them all day as part of my job. Thanks for being a condescending asshole. It's good to vent without having to feel guitly.

And another thing. Asking someone if they are retarded is another big clue as to the level you are at. And claiming I was talking about her Ti PolR when I was actually talking about Ne was another.

[Kim]

I don't let idiotic people talk down to me without saying something back. She asked me if I was retarded. I don't need to speculate as to where Nemo is coming from. It pretty obvious that she's a self important little shit who doesn't know as much as she thinks she knows. Be condescending and call people retarded and they will do the same back. Simple as.

She is neither idiotic nor a self-important little shit. Just for the record.

Also, it seems as if your flip/flopping comment related to my self-typings. During the time I have been here, I have never seriously considered a type other than IEE for myself. I have occasionally entertained the idea that perhaps I might be another type based on someone questioning my type, but was never convinced. I have always considered myself to be IEE.

[Creepy-female]

Ha ha a senior member! Give me a fucking break. What does someones post rank have to do with their understanding of Socionics?

Due to her being a senor member, as in, having been around here, giving people context to draw from in order to type her. You coming in here and sticking her in Beta based on your own experience is valid - but don't expect people who have context with her to magically agree with you.

She explained her situation with an SLI claiming he was her dual. I investigeted and asked her if she had considered EIE as her type. Since she flip/flopped so much, it was a fair question to ask. All I'm trying to do is establish whether or not her account of things goes against what Socionics says about duality or not. There is one thing I am not, and it is close minded.

You state that, and yet you have yet to even address the fact that you plopped an either/or ultimatum onto neutral information.

Like I said, you don't know me from Adam, you don't know who I am or what I am about, so just fuck off with your condescending bullshit posts. And before you start quoting me as assuming a type for Kim, just forget it. I said I got a feeling of EIE, and that now I am leaning towards SEE. I never chategorically stated anything.

I was never condescending until you decided to be a dick.

Edit- Why don't you read back over my previous post to KIm. I told her the reason I thought you were an idiot for posting that article. It was stupid because it was such a lame way to make a point. If you want to make a point about Fi, try using something that actually relates to Fi. Does Se/Fi work the same way as Ne/Fi? No it doesn't. That's my point. Genius.

Does Fi work in tandem with other functions? Of course. Is it possible to talk about Fi as a distinct entity within its placement with other functions? Sure, if you comprehend nuances. Which you seem not able or willing to see.

Thanks by the way. It's nice to be able to vent and express what I really feel towards idiots. I had to be nice to them all day as part of my job. Thanks for being a condescending asshole. It's good to vent without having to feel guitly.

Customer service sucks. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. But don't assume I'm an idiot or winding you up because I post something you apparently don't comprehend. I'm not the one being the ass here.

[blackburry]

Ha ha a senior member! Give me a fucking break. What does someones post rank have to do with their understanding of Socionics?

She explained her situation with an SLI claiming he was her dual. I investigeted and asked her if she had considered EIE as her type. Since she flip/flopped so much, it was a fair question to ask. All I'm trying to do is establish whether or not her account of things goes against what Socionics says about duality or not. There is one thing I am not, and it is close minded.

Like I said, you don't know me from Adam, you don't know who I am or what I am about, so just fuck off with your condescending bullshit posts. And before you start quoting me as assuming a type for Kim, just forget it. I said I got a feeling of EIE, and that now I am leaning towards SEE. I never chategorically stated anything.

Edit- Why don't you read back over my previous post to KIm. I told her the reason I thought you were an idiot for posting that article. It was stupid because it was such a lame way to make a point. If you want to make a point about Fi, try using something that actually relates to Fi. Does Se/Fi work the same way as Ne/Fi? No it doesn't. That's my point. Genius.

Thanks by the way. It's nice to be able to vent and express what I really feel towards idiots. I had to be nice to them all day as part of my job. Thanks for being a condescending asshole. It's good to vent without having to feel guitly.

And another thing. Asking someone if they are retarded is another big clue as to the level you are at. And claiming I was talking about her Ti PolR when I was actually talking about Ne was another.

It must be a relative of Marista. Sounds just like her. Someone who makes Ne and Fi stink. To the rest of you, I like what you've had to say.

[Eye of the Potato]

She is neither idiotic nor a self-important little shit. Just for the record.

Also, it seems as if your flip/flopping comment related to my self-typings. During the time I have been here, I have never seriously considered a type other than IEE for myself. I have occasionally entertained the idea that perhaps I might be another type based on someone questioning my type, but was never convinced. I have always considered myself to be IEE.

That's fair enough. All I'm doing is testing this theory. People shouldn't get up in arms when someone questions their type. A lot of people are typed wrong. It's very common to see people switching between types and it's really unhelpful when trying to gain an insight when all the answers I get back turn out to be wrong.

You said that WWT changed their type to EIE and that you related to him. You said this confused you. There was a whole thread dedicated to you asking what others thought. This is what I meant by flip/flopping. I can see that you didn't really take it too seriously, so I can see your point.

[Creepy-female]

And another thing. Asking someone if they are retarded is another big clue as to the level you are at.

Okay, let's see, I post a thread that begins with an article that talks about an emotional concept. The emotional concept is discussed by various members of the board. The article happens to be posted on Oprah.com. So what is the important concept here? Oprah? Are you kidding me?

And claiming I was talking about her Ti PolR when I was actually talking about Ne was another.

I said that I thought you were describing Ti polr. In a way that I think may mean you value Ti. That doesn't necessarily mean you intended to talk about Ti. You actually seem like you don't value Ne, unless you're simply too pissed off at shitty customers to make alternate connections.

[Eye of the Potato]

[

QUOTE=Nemo;835443]Due to her being a senor member, as in, having been around here, giving people context to draw from in order to type her. You coming in here and sticking her in Beta based on your own experience is valid - but don't expect people who have context with her to magically agree with you.

I never asked anyone to agree with me.

You state that, and yet you have yet to even address the fact that you plopped an either/or ultimatum onto neutral information.

Ultimatum? What ultimatum. Actually don't even bother answering.

I was never condescending until you decided to be a dick.

By asking if you were winding me up? It was very possible it was someone winding me up because it was such a stupid way to make a point. I understood the article quite well. Thank you.

Does Fi work in tandem with other functions? Of course. Is it possible to talk about Fi as a distinct entity within its placement with other functions? Sure, if you comprehend nuances. Which you seem not able or willing to see.

What you can't see is that your article was describing Ne and Fi working together. It wasn't about Fi all on it's own. It sure as hell wasn't describing how a Se/Fi ego functions. Which means it wasn't about Fi alone. That's what made it such a stupid thing to post, to try to make a point about Fi.

Customer service sucks. I'm sorry you have to deal with that. But don't assume I'm an idiot or winding you up because I post something you apparently don't comprehend. I'm not the one being the ass here.[

/QUOTE]

Like I said, I understood it just fine. The fact that people in the thread argued over whether the article described Fi or not, proves just how stupid it was.

[Eye of the Potato]

Okay, let's see, I post a thread that begins with an article that talks about an emotional concept. The emotional concept is discussed by various members of the board. The article happens to be posted on Oprah.com. So what is the important concept here? Oprah? Are you kidding me?

I said that I thought you were describing Ti polr. In a way that I think may mean you value Ti. That doesn't necessarily mean you intended to talk about Ti. You actually seem like you don't value Ne, unless you're simply too pissed off at shitty customers to make alternate connections.

IGNORE.

[Kim]

IGNORE.

That's not very NeFi of you, is it?

[Eye of the Potato]

That's not very NeFi of you, is it?

I'm a bit long in the tooth for talking to someone who doesn't listen. I can only repeat myself so many times.

[Creepy-female]

Ultimatum? What ultimatum.

Well I thought either A) she was an idiot for posting what she posted or B) that she was winding me up. I went with B to give her the benefit of the doubt. The reason I thought she was an idiot for posting it, was because of how so many people in that thread argued about whether or not the article was related to Fi. Why post something that is so loosly related to Fi to try and prove a point? If anything it was Ne. Ne+Fi perhaps but definitely not Se+Fi, which makes it more Ne than anything. The article described how my mind works. I get people to step out of their either/or mode of thinking. I use Ne/Fi to do this. Not just Fi alone.

^That is called an ultimatum.

By asking if you were winding me up? It was very possible it was someone winding me up because it was such a stupid way to make a point. I understood the article quite well. Thank you.

Actually I don't consider it stupid. I think that it illustrates a thought process you are not very familiar with, though.

What you can't see is that your article was describing Ne and Fi working together. It wasn't about Fi all on it's own. It sure as hell wasn't describing how a Se/Fi ego functions. Which means it wasn't about Fi alone. That's what made it such a stupid thing to post, to try to make a point about Fi.

I never said the Fi content exclusively existed in the article. I said the thread generally elucidated Fi concepts. Quote me.

Like I said, I understood it just fine. The fact that people in the thread argued over whether the article described Fi or not, proves just how stupid it was.

Lol, the functional value of the thread resides within the interaction of the people in it. Apparently that went over your head. I doubt you have Fi in your ego block, let alone value it

[Eye of the Potato]

Okay, let's see, I post a thread that begins with an article that talks about an emotional concept. The emotional concept is discussed by various members of the board. The article happens to be posted on Oprah.com. So what is the important concept here? Oprah? Are you kidding me?

I said that I thought you were describing Ti polr. In a way that I think may mean you value Ti. That doesn't necessarily mean you intended to talk about Ti. You actually seem like you don't value Ne, unless you're simply too pissed off at shitty customers to make alternate connections.

You THOUGHT I was describing Ti PolR, when it was obvious I was talking about Ne (insights, possibilities)

And you have the cheek to call me retarded?

You obviously don't know as much as you claim to with your condescending air and fake pseudoscholar tone. If you are confusing a description of Ne with Ti, then you don't understand what it is you are talking about.

Now stop conversing with me or you will get me banned.

[Eye of the Potato]

^That is called an ultimatum.


Actually I don't consider it stupid. I think that it illustrates a thought process you are not very familiar with, though.


I never said the Fi content exclusively existed in the article. I said the thread generally elucidated Fi concepts. Quote me.


Lol, the functional value of the thread resides within the interaction of the people in it. Apparently that went over your head. I doubt you have Fi in your ego block, let alone value it

So I didn't like your little article. Get over it.

[Creepy-female]

You THOUGHT I was describing Ti PolR, when it was obvious I was talking about Ne (insights, possibilities)

I would say it's a long shot that your Ne is obvious. Maybe it's clunking around in there somewhere tho

And you have the cheek to call me retarded?

Bringing Oprah into the conversation was not the cleverest thing, no.

You obviously don't know as much as you claim to with your condescending air and fake pseudoscholar tone. If you are confusing a description of Ne with Ti, then you don't understand what it is you are talking about.

If I was a fake pseudoscholar that'd make me a real scholar I have a different opinion of functions than you, obviously, so step off all the rigidity.

Now stop conversing with me or you will get me banned.

Ahahaha

So I didn't like your little article. Get over it.

You're bleeding personal venom into a innocuous subject. Get over yourself.

[Eye of the Potato]

I would say it's a long shot that your Ne is obvious. Maybe it's clunking around in there somewhere tho


Bringing Oprah into the conversation was not the cleverest thing, no.


If I was a fake pseudoscholar that'd make me a real scholar I have a different opinion of functions than you, obviously, so step off all the rigidity.


Ahahaha


You're bleeding personal venom into a innocuous subject. Get over yourself.

It's people like you who are making Socionics so confusing to understand. You can't just go making up your own interpretations of Ne and Ti, and then talk down to people who don't agree with those interpretations and call them retarded. It's well known that Ne is to do with possibilities and insights. If you think Ti was being described in my original post, then you were wrong and should just admit it. Everyone can be wrong. That's human. When people are wrong, yet act like they know it all and start talking down to people, that's when they cross the line over to idiot country. And I have the feeling you have been living in idiot country for quite some time.

[Eye of the Potato]

Okay, let's see, I post a thread that begins with an article that talks about an emotional concept. The emotional concept is discussed by various members of the board. The article happens to be posted on Oprah.com. So what is the important concept here? Oprah? Are you kidding me?

I said that I thought you were describing Ti polr. In a way that I think may mean you value Ti. That doesn't necessarily mean you intended to talk about Ti. You actually seem like you don't value Ne, unless you're simply too pissed off at shitty customers to make alternate connections.

This is my original post :

I just got a feeling of EIE. It wasn't anything specific, just a general feeling.

I noticed from your political discussions, that there was a lack of alternative solutions posted by you. As an IEE, if I were having political discussions, I would offer a better way of doing things. I would give insights gained from many sources and use those insights to think up a better way to approach a problem. For instance, I was once in a debate about Capitalism vs. Socialism. I used the insights I got from a book called the tipping point, to argue that Socialism can't work when it is set up by a central government. The reason for this, was that when a groups size reaches 150 people, cohesion is lost and groups begin to splinter off. If Socialism had any chance of working, communities would have to be made up of 150 people.

I saw no evidence of you doing this, in any of your posts. In fact when someone argued with you, you berated them with things like "oh well I thought this was going to be an enjoyable conversation" and didn't really hear their side of the argument out. An IEE would try their hardest to understand where the other person was coming from, even if they didn't agree with what they were saying. An IEE might not always do this, but on the whole they would, and on the whole, you have not.

Also, you seem to flip/flop on typing others. And I have seen a few contradictions in how you describe your relations with different types. You mentioned being irked by an SLE at a party, citing his Se as being unbearable,yet you now claim to be in a relationship with an SLE (who you thought was SEE for a long time, they use Se too)

You say things went very smoothly with the SLI. I think you have misunderstood what duality is. It doesn't run as smooth as I think you have been lead to believe. The innitial running in period is anything but smooth, especially if both of you have had no experience with a dual growing up.

On closer inspection I am thinking you could possibly be SEE. It's hard to type someone from a forum and probably silly to do so, but I don't think you show much signs of being IEE. You might say you do things you think an IEE would do, but being tied to a certain type, it sometimes happens that people act the way they expect their type to act.

If you are SEE, it would explain why there weren't many misunderstandings with the SLI and it would also explain why you felt the way you did about the ILI. Assuming they were both typed correctly that is.

What is it specifically about beta values that you don't value?

And what is it about delta values that appeals to you?

Can you point out exactly where you thought I was describing Ti? And how I show a lack of Ne?

[Eye of the Potato]

I doesn't piss me off, but you shouldn't assume. I maintain that experiencing intense feeling has nothing to do with duality. Socionics is not about emotions, it's about compatibility. I am happy for you that you found who you believe to be your dual and that you are happy. My partner is not my dual, but he is amazing and smart and he makes me laugh and supports me and is proud of me (and I of him). Socionics helps me make sense of the friction that occurs that was not there with my dual and we have come up with strategies to work around functional incompatibilities. The intensity of our feelings has nothing to do with Socionics. I really don't grant Socionics that much power.

Another type worth considering is SEI- ISFp. A lot of your political views are in line with SEI thinking, a lot of which I agree with by the way.

[Kim]

You speak about Socionics as some kind of religion that can have power over you. It's not. It's a theory that came about when observations were made about human interaction.

Yes, like I said.

And political views are not type-related.

[Eye of the Potato]

Yes, like I said.

And political views are not type-related.

Well have you ever met an ENTj who thinks Socialism is a good idea?

[mu4]

Well have you ever met an ENTj who thinks Socialism is a good idea?

I have met many ENTj who think progressive taxation is a good idea as well and many other supposedly socialist mechanisms, like universal health care. Not type related.

[Absurd]

Chrome is a shitty cunt browser, I'm going back to Opera. Not type related.

[Creepy-female]

It's people like you who are making Socionics so confusing to understand. You can't just go making up your own interpretations of Ne and Ti, and then talk down to people who don't agree with those interpretations and call them retarded. It's well known that Ne is to do with possibilities and insights. If you think Ti was being described in my original post, then you were wrong and should just admit it. Everyone can be wrong. That's human. When people are wrong, yet act like they know it all and start talking down to people, that's when they cross the line over to idiot country. And I have the feeling you have been living in idiot country for quite some time.

I called you retarded because you tried to make what I posted about Oprah when it clearly wasn't.

You got cross because you didn't understand the concept I introduced and because I'm not typing you IEE. It's not "well known" that Ne is "possibilities" or "insights". Those are so vague they can apply to any function. Any function can generate possibilities, or produce insights. Functions are information processing, cognitive tendencies.

I called what you observed about Kim's post to be pointing out Ti polr because of the linear, explicit way you connected her statements, without any regard for the way Fi draws conclusions and makes conclusions, as illustrated in the thread I linked.

[EyeSeeCold]

It's not "well known" that Ne is "possibilities" or "insights". Those are so vague they can apply to any function. Any function can generate possibilities, or produce insights. Functions are information processing, cognitive tendencies.

Nah, it is well-known and that is how Ne is defined in Socionics. Whether you choose to circumvent that and formulate your own understandings, or adopt the opinions of those who do, is a separate matter.

I agree it is vague though. Context helps.

[Creepy-female]

I noticed from your political discussions, that there was a lack of alternative solutions posted by you. As an IEE, if I were having political discussions, I would offer a better way of doing things.

Ne isn't simply "alternative solutions". Anyone can think of alternative solutions. Se/Ni people functionally operate on a couple, BUT NOTICE THEY ARE STILL THINKING OF ALTERNATE SOLUTIONS. Se/Ni is the "situationally best", most "immediate", "workable" solution. Ne/Si is the most "adjusted", "holistically appropriate", "perfect", "optimal", "streamlined", "detailed", "specialized" solution. Ne/Si people often approach situations able to juggle a sea of facets. Ne can be a faceted way of perceiving and might just as well end up doing nothing because it's stuck in the process of turning over possibilities. See Anndelise. It may also devolve into the perfection Smilingeyes mentions in his description of quadra transition, in the case of Delta STs. I suggest Smilingeyes material in general for a comprehensive view of Si.

I would give insights gained from many sources and use those insights to think up a better way to approach a problem. For instance, I was once in a debate about Capitalism vs. Socialism. I used the insights I got from a book called the tipping point, to argue that Socialism can't work when it is set up by a central government. The reason for this, was that when a groups size reaches 150 people, cohesion is lost and groups begin to splinter off. If Socialism had any chance of working, communities would have to be made up of 150 people.

This doesn't look like Ne to me. You're focusing on solving the problem by using whatever material you have at hand, and you're essentializing your tactics into something specific in order to better accomplish your goal. You also make clear statements that verge on absolute. Looks like you value Se, not Ne.

I saw no evidence of you doing this, in any of your posts. In fact when someone argued with you, you berated them with things like "oh well I thought this was going to be an enjoyable conversation" and didn't really hear their side of the argument out.

You did this to me, when you went IGNORE and justified your emotional barbs instead of replying to my statements. In fact you're still ignoring that I actually said you were retarded because you tried to use Oprah to sidetrack my neutral offer of information.

An IEE would try their hardest to understand where the other person was coming from, even if they didn't agree with what they were saying. An IEE might not always do this, but on the whole they would, and on the whole, you have not.

Understanding doesn't equal overt debate. Delta NFs tend to avoid confrontation when they feel their is nothing to be gained from the argument. Or they get an overall picture of a person in an Fi viewpoint and make the judgement that the person will not be responsive to their point of view. Also, I fail to see how you have even done what you are describing you think IEEs to do. I perceive that Kim has made a much more diplomatic, open effort to understand and accommodate, and you have been the emotionally needy one - allowing her to adapt to you, with no mention of the perception that this is happening, which either means you're having an emotional breakdown from customer service, or you are not Fi, and maybe not F ego, because healthy Fs pick up on this sort of thing - even though you were the one that presented the argument. You seem to lack Fi awareness. You're connecting her statements in a rigid, external manner, without contemplating the facets of their meaning or the internal workings of the people involved.

Also, you seem to flip/flop on typing others. And I have seen a few contradictions in how you describe your relations with different types. You mentioned being irked by an SLE at a party, citing his Se as being unbearable,yet you now claim to be in a relationship with an SLE (who you thought was SEE for a long time, they use Se too)

This shows a complete aversion to Fi. Do you honestly not see how these can exist together? Certainly they do not fit a linear, explicit logical structure where the points of reference are subjective, which is what Ti does, and which you seem to be forcing the information into. Kim can be irked at a party by an SLE, feel that the Se is unbearable, AND have a relationship with an SLE. For example, she can be irked by Se but still choose to work harder at communication if she feels a connection with an SLE. She could have been dealing with any number of issues at the time of the party. BUT, these explanations are NOT NECESSARY for her "logically disparate" statements to be COMPLETELY VALID. These are explanations that MAKE LOGICAL SENSE, which she is NOT OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE, and DOES NOT HAVE THE TENDENCY TO PROVIDE, which is TI POLR. There is infinite possibility in regards to circumstances and little boundaries towards how people ACTUALLY ACT, as opposed to how they SHOULD ACT, which is what you are imposing here. This does NOT make her contradictory unless you assume these things cannot exist at the same time or that Kim cannot make these disparate statements, which makes you ANTI NE, ANTI FI, and makes Kim MORE NE than you, and probably MORE FI. Kim is completely not obligated to make her experiences fit into a logical continuum, and Fi usually doesn't. It's more concerned with evolution of circumstances (Te) with no imposition of subjective value or order. That is your imposition, and that is Ti.

This is something that ExFps run into and are criticized for. It's Ti polr because it doesn't fit into a subjective logical structure, to the point of stupidity and/or complete denial. Fi polr rejects Ti - it looks ignorant and airheaded to Ti valuing people, or, if not ignorant, SIMPLY NOT THE WAY TI VALUERS THINK. You are making a clear distinction between you and Kim. You are saying that a) you are IEE, that b) Kim does not approach things the way you do, and c) that Kim is not IEE. In fact, you may be completely astute in your observation that you and Kim think differently and are different types. I believe you are incorrect in your assignment of types, however.

You assess Kim from a Ti standpoint. You're saying her statements cannot mutually exist and make sense because they are logically incoherent. I perceive this is how your actions, what you say, how you come across, how the subjective things about you combine to form a whole - this is how my gestalt impression of you is Ti. This is not how I isolated a phrase or an adjective into oblivion and then assigned it functional meaning, like you seem to be prone to. I'm guessing that you are going to try to pick apart my statements one by one, refusing to see the overall implications, the gestalt of the message, because my statements do not fit into your subjective appraisal of what "should" be, which is something I run into with Ti valuing types who cannot step away from their rigidity, whose puzzle pieces must align logically to the point of being pedantic before they can progress.

You say things went very smoothly with the SLI. I think you have misunderstood what duality is. It doesn't run as smooth as I think you have been lead to believe. The innitial running in period is anything but smooth, especially if both of you have had no experience with a dual growing up.

Why is it that Kim has misunderstood what duality is and you have not? Why is it that you have misunderstood what duality is and Kim has not? Why is it that I take my experience to trump yours? Why is it that you take your experience to trump mine? Because you are right and I am wrong? Because I am right and you are wrong? Because Kim is right and you are wrong? Because Kim is wrong and you are right? Where are the disclaimers? Where are the acknowledgements of your experience? Why the ultimatums? Why the black and white? Why the either/or? Is your rigidity of thinking not apparent to you because it's second nature? Bingo, Ti valuer. You're almost as blatant as a Ne polr banging around being all "I honestly cannot see how I am Ne polr", lol!! You do not see yourself as having subjective experience as relates to your person. You see subjective experience as something everyone adheres to, as an external structure that you can appeal to because you have thought about it and honed it and streamlined it and made it all fit together. THIS IS TI.

On closer inspection I am thinking you could possibly be SEE. It's hard to type someone from a forum and probably silly to do so, but I don't think you show much signs of being IEE. You might say you do things you think an IEE would do, but being tied to a certain type, it sometimes happens that people act the way they expect their type to act.

You show the least signs of being IEE I have ever seen. Perhaps I'll stop adding disclaimers of my opinion, since you seem to not register them. Another reason you may not be Fi valuing. It seems as if the internality is completely lost on you.

If you are SEE, it would explain why there weren't many misunderstandings with the SLI and it would also explain why you felt the way you did about the ILI. Assuming they were both typed correctly that is.

Yes, and your system would be validated, and everything would be neat again. Everything would be connected in your own explicit yet ironically subjective viewpoint. Ti, tick. Tick tick Ti.

[Creepy-female]

Nah, it is well-known and that is how Ne is defined in Socionics. Whether you choose to circumvent that and formulate your own understandings, or adopt the opinions of those who do, is a separate matter.

I agree it is vague though. Context helps.

Ne isn't "possibilities". It is a specific subset of "possibilities" and "possibilities" approached from a specific way of thinking and perceiving information. Ne is conflated with "possibilities" because the gestalt of possibilities meshes well with the concept of Ne. They are not, however, equal. I suggest you do a little more reading about information elements if you do not comprehend this. Ann has some excellent material.

[EyeSeeCold]

Ne isn't "possibilities". It is a specific subset of "possibilities" and "possibilities" approached from a specific way of thinking and perceiving information. Ne is conflated with "possibilities" because the gestalt of possibilities meshes well with the concept of Ne. They are not, however, equal. I suggest you do a little more reading about information elements if you do not comprehend this. Ann has some excellent material.

You're arguing an irrelevant point. What Ne "really is" is not the concern, it's that Socionics Ne actually is defined as intuition of possibility/opportunity.

Call it wrong, inaccurate, limited, misguided, stupid, ignorant etc, it doesn't matter. That is still how Socionics Ne is defined, conflation or not.