Hotelambush Questionnaire (Karatos)

[Exodus]

@thehotelambush - still having second thoughts?

If I were you, I'd primarily consider the videos. They weren't really premeditated.

The other main types I was considering are LSE and LIE. I agree, normally I prefer video evidence since it's more spontaneous and you get nonverbal info. In any case, I can't really see you as an introvert - you display preference for extroverted elements, as well as initiative even if it isn't social.

[The Reality Denialist]

Static Ne/Si type with high which is not ignoring.

Only one type fulfills criteria.

[Desert Financial]

Static Ne/Si type with high which is not ignoring.

Only one type fulfills criteria.

IEE.

[Desert Financial]

The other main types I was considering are LSE and LIE. I agree, normally I prefer video evidence since it's more spontaneous and you get nonverbal info. In any case, I can't really see you as an introvert - you display preference for extroverted elements, as well as initiative even if it isn't social.

Definitely not LSE or LIE.

[Bertrand]

bro..! bro.. bro, bro..bro.

business tho

[Desert Financial]

bro..! bro.. bro, bro..bro.

business tho

hah.

You know, when I first entered college, I wanted to be a psych major and I wanted to be an artist on the side.

To me, the offensive side of information security is an art.

Business is just a stepping stone on the way to my objective. A requirement in my degree plan.

[Bertrand]

I wanted to be a psych major and I wanted to be an artist on the side.

this is totally my goal as well once I finish being a lawyer

[Desert Financial]

this is totally my goal as well once I finish being a lawyer

WTF haha.

[Bertrand]

yeah I don't know either

[The Reality Denialist]

IEE.

IEE is not high .

I think 1D conscious is rather clear. IEE is kind of comfortable around things that bring you some sort of anxiety.

[Desert Financial]

IEE is not high .

I think 1D conscious is rather clear. IEE is kind of comfortable around things that bring you some sort of anxiety.

EII?

It should be clear by this point that I need to do some reading about socionics.

EDIT: alright, I did some reading on the dimensionalities and you could only mean ILE.

[The Reality Denialist]

EII?

It should be clear by this point that I need to do some reading about socionics.

EDIT: alright, I did some reading on the dimensionalities and you could only mean ILE.

Yeah, active involvement with logic of action () which is not same valuing it because your goal is to understand it ().

This is why it is sometimes hard to tell apart creative and demonstrative. You said that you are anxious when it comes to approaching people. It kind of points towards conscious and insecure aka it is hard to handle psychological distance. You try to handle physical aspects of life even though you don't prefer it and therefore sounds >1D.

[Desert Financial]

Yeah, active involvement with logic of action () which is not same valuing it because your goal is to understand it ().

This is why it is sometimes hard to tell apart creative and demonstrative. You said that you are anxious when it comes to approaching people. It kind of points towards conscious and insecure aka it is hard to handle psychological distance.

That's really good food for thought. Considering Fi PoLR.

[Desert Financial]

[Desert Financial]

@Syrup what do you think? Do you relate to my videos or what I've posted? I noticed you liked my OP.

Same question goes to @Cosmic Teapot since she's SLI.

[Cosmic Teapot]

Hey @Kakarot, thank you for mentioning me. I must admit I only skimmed your questionnaire so I'm not able to add anything new in that regard. Except for the anger thing. I don't feel angry that often. Most things aren't worth to feeling angry about and the few instances where I do get get emotional is when close acquaintances of family members throw around prejudices or misinformation that influences other peoples woldview negatively.
Example: My fathers likes to make jokes about foreigners and how they all abuse our social system, Muslim-bashing and so on. The problem for me is that we are also foreigners (from former Soviet Union) and most of my friends and their family, too. I can't stand the hypocrisy. Maybe you mean something similar by "Contradictions. Injustice. ". Maybe it's not type related but human.
I know three other men who have the same eyes (even beard and haircut) as you. A manager, a college student in computer science and a software engineer. So far I haven't been able to type them but I am sure that they are not SLI and therefore I doubt that it's your type. The software engineer I've mentioned (lets call him X-type) works right next to an SLI software engineer (at work).
Here are some differences:

SLI sw.eng.:
- sits comfortably in his chair. Most of the time in the same position. I have never seen him sitting with a straight back.
- facial expressions rarely changes. Only smirks - if at all. Aloof.
- helpful, patient (both types are)
- as a learned calligraphy in his free time
- master in his field
- When I say "can I disturb you for a moment" he says " you already do"
which sounds mean but I doubt he's being offensive
- talks in the same rhythm and with the same tone of voice. Always.

edit: for clarity
I'm confident that those three are the same type. However I meet them in different environments and under different circumstances. That's why I see different behaviors and reactions from them. I'm sure they all express most of the characteristics however for obvious reasons I will never see the manager sitting in the same manner as the software eng. and I will never know his personal convictions as well as those of the college student.

X-type sw.eng.:
- sits in super weird positions sometimes. Never a straight back. I mean that kind of position for you parents (hopefully) told you to never sit in because it hurts your back. But he never looks tense.
- his favorite motto is KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
- When I suddenly appear out of nowhere with a question he reacts abruptly: changes position, big eyes, super attentive, friendly, energetic

X-type manager:
- usual facial expression: big eyes, attentive, friendly smile on face
- facial expressions can for less than a second into another expression before it returns to normal state
(so: worse control over outward emotional expression than the SLI)
- a clear positivist. Says yes to every new project
- is a good cook

X-type college student
- is critical about hypocrisy, Injustice, misinformation, interest in politics
- never belittles people
- never acts as if someone is helpless and in dire need of his assistance- which is a negative trait in arrogant SLIs


It's been suggested that you might be ILE. I think considering that type is worth a shot. You say you're introverted and if you feel like that that's perfectly fine. But often socionics-introverted and socially introverted are two different things. Ne-leading types can look like introverts to outsiders but do use an extroverted function as their first function.

[Hope]

@Syrup what do you think? Do you relate to my videos or what I've posted? I noticed you liked my OP.

I liked it because you look friendly.

I can relate in few things (I'm SLI).
I just type ppl when I feel like I've high certainty about a possible type and I don't think that questionnaire is a good way of typing ppl.

But I think you are ok as Ne type, you VI pretty Ne and you look friendly enough and expressive.
To be SLI you would need to have 1DFe (emotionless, souless, robotic face) which I don't see in you. lol

[Pole]

@Kakarot
Sometimes your facial mannerisms remind me of comedian Loius C.K. but more subdued, it's in the smile and sometimes the voice pattern. I don't know his type, or saying you are the same type as him. Not very crucial to bring up but wanted to point it out.

[Desert Financial]

@Kakarot
Sometimes your facial mannerisms remind me of comedian Loius C.K.

I'll be here all week.

[Desert Financial]

@Cosmic Teapot and @Syrup thank you for your input.

I think you have a point regarding my demeanor vs. the default demeanor of SLIs. SLIs tend not to be very expressive.

I'm convinced I'm an Alpha NT at this point. Whether introverted or extraverted, the difference is marginal.

[Myst]

Looking at this thread (and the forum) again

Yeah, active involvement with logic of action () which is not same valuing it because your goal is to understand it ().

This is why it is sometimes hard to tell apart creative and demonstrative. You said that you are anxious when it comes to approaching people. It kind of points towards conscious and insecure aka it is hard to handle psychological distance. You try to handle physical aspects of life even though you don't prefer it and therefore sounds >1D.

Err, no, it's not at all specific to Fi PoLR or anything like that. Lots of introverts and also people with AvPD or social anxiety are like that.

Si: enjoys the end result of mundane activities like chores, but doesn't enjoy the process, chose job partly because it was easy, your desire to have a family (IME this is a typical manifestation of Si suggestive), also the need to help people on a concrete level with your work

edit: actually reading your questionnaire is giving me second thoughts on this.

Bolded: that's SO non-specific to Si suggestive o_o

What do you see if not ILE for OP?


...Wow tho' you alpha NTs linking every little detail with sociotype... : p (jk)

I've thought about this a lot actually

when I read something as Fi I think of it as it being an ethical statement "proposing/condoning a course of action"-- in other words, I think of it being an inherently should statement. That the person manifested that language on the basis of their whole person (and whatever they're saying stands for so much more than the literal words--it often implicates a policy, or an attitude towards something). This means that you can read between the lines a little, because the language is just a symptom for their overall ethical stance which is deeper than any sentence or treatise can capture, this means to understand the person you have to infer all the colors and meaning--because you don't lose sight that it originated in a flesh and blood person.

but then I got in a lot of trouble on the LSAT with this because it would lead to me picking wrong choices a lot, and I realized you have to read sentences in terms of their pure logical structure and literal semantic content which means reading sentences carefully to exclude, not include meaning. in other words, if a sentence, according to Ti, allows for the possibility of something to not be implicated, i.e.: if its not explicitly and conclusively determined to be a conclusion validly implied by the rules of logic, then you have to assume they did not intend you to draw that conclusion. I used to always tell myself "what would the conclusion be if a typewriter said this?" it was always the typewriter, I had to divorce humanity from it. it became sort of a game.

Whoa that's so different from how I approach things. But yeah, you can't just randomly assume extra assumptions for stuff. OK I guess Feeling/Ethics isn't random, but still... This typewriter trick is funny btw.

Why do you link this video?

@Cosmic Teapot and @Syrup thank you for your input.

I think you have a point regarding my demeanor vs. the default demeanor of SLIs. SLIs tend not to be very expressive.

I'm convinced I'm an Alpha NT at this point. Whether introverted or extraverted, the difference is marginal.

I don't think you are expressive in any crazy strong manner either. More "even" than that.

This is interesting and I understand.

Basically, tends to simplify logical constructs until a universal principle is distilled. Ie. the principle applies in every situation. In the context of reading comprehension, lends itself to fixed concepts.

But tends to add logical complexity with a variety of related facts. So your interpretation relies more heavily on the immediate objective context.

Each way has its weakness.

For example, those who value may completely ignore facts for the sake of their pet theories.

On the other hand, those who value may dispense a pile of factual information that turns out to be wholly irrelevant.

That would be weak Ti to ignore facts and it would be weak Te to add so many wholly irrelevant facts. Strong Ti/Te utilizes pretty often the "other side of the coin" too.

Btw I guess what you are describing is your variant of Ti. There are some basic principles/rules that are general, yes but I tend to have more complex hierarchies for systems. (I mention this below too.)

Not only do I scan for logical fallacies, but I also create frameworks based on what adds up vs. what's incompatible.

For instance, when I first entered my field of study, my go-to inclination was to build abstract architectures that would suffice under every circumstance - a set of solutions and general rules that minimize the risk of an organization to zero.

Hmm, my problem with this is that a few general rules can't really take care of everything. I tend to go towards pretty "complexified" systems for that reason.

I learned the hard way that universal frameworks didn't work in the long-term for a number of reasons. New threats constantly emerge, taking advantage of vulnerabilities previously unknown. Furthermore, eliminating risk down to zero is too idealistic because basic system processes demand risk in order to satisfy the goals of an operation.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by them actually demanding risk?

I've built abstract systems since early childhood.

More curiosity lol, what was your first abstract system?

[Desert Financial]

Ah, there's Ms. Curious again.

Why do you link this video?

It seemed appropriate. I'm developing a new frame of reference in terms of how I see myself. Self concepts have more fragility than people usually recognize. I understand where Jim's coming from to an extent, but I think it's kind of tangential here. Generally, I'm entering a new phase of life.

I don't think you are expressive in any crazy strong manner either. More "even" than that.

Good. I prefer going through life straightjacket-free.

That would be weak Ti to ignore facts and it would be weak Te to add so many wholly irrelevant facts. Strong Ti/Te utilizes pretty often the "other side of the coin" too.

Btw I guess what you are describing is your variant of Ti. There are some basic principles/rules that are general, yes but I tend to have more complex hierarchies for systems. (I mention this below too.)

I'm riffing off of Jung's description of Ti. His conceptualization technically differs from Socionics to an extent, but you can see how the developers of Socionics borrowed most of the defining features from Jung. According to Jung, Ti tends to be reductionistic because it prioritizes subjective factors over objective factors. So, you get a subjective idea or a system that primarily interfaces with facts to affirm itself, rather than the other way around.

But, if you're curious, I prefer basing as many of my decisions on facts as I can.

Hmm, my problem with this is that a few general rules can't really take care of everything. I tend to go towards pretty "complexified" systems for that reason.

I think that if you don't understand the complexities of a system in depth, you run the risk of paralysis through analysis. Overthinking. So, whether your system is simple or complex, you should get a handle on the underlying principles.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by them actually demanding risk?

I mean that organizations have to accept risk in order to get from point A. to point B. For example, if you run a cloud storage business, you have to invest in assets that run the risk of premature failure. You could pour all your money into a server room that becomes swallowed up by an earthquake the next day. This rule applies to other organizations as well. If you work for a non profit organization that does a lot of boots-on-the-ground outreach to random people, you run the risk of sending a team member out who randomly gets stabbed to death.

Life, in general, doesn't happen without risk involved.

More curiosity lol, what was your first abstract system?

I couldn't tell you, lol. My memory probably isn't as good as yours. One memory that comes to mind is of when I was very little and my family took me to church. They told me that god was omnipotent. So, I thought that if god was omnipotent, then he could read my mind. So, if prayer was meant as a channel of communication, I didn't see the need for it. I didn't pray like a lot of the people around me did, I just thought. By the time I was 11 or 12, I started to think even more critically about what they were trying to teach me. For example, I thought there were numerous different belief systems that promise many of the same things that my family's denomination did, so the chances that theirs was the one seemed pretty slim, assuming there was one at all. As a side note, I read on the sociotypes page that LIIs lean toward relativism more than other types.

[Exodus]

Bolded: that's SO non-specific to Si suggestive o_o

Of course that's just one observation, not something to be taken as evidence in itself.

What do you see if not ILE for OP?

I mentioned it before, most likely Te leading.

[Desert Financial]

I think it's about time to admit to myself that I have little in the way of grounded self-awareness for the purposes of typology; and the only thing that keeps me from over-analyzing myself is a focus on my goals.


#existentialism

[Exodus]

I think it's about time to admit to myself that I have little in the way of grounded self-awareness for the purposes of typology

You're already doing better than half the forum then

[Desert Financial]

[Desert Financial]

I think it's about time to admit to myself that I have little in the way of grounded self-awareness for the purposes of typology

Shut up. You don't know me.

[Desert Financial]

Shut up. You don't know me.

I don't need a degree to figure you out, bub.

[Desert Financial]

I don't need a degree to figure you out, bub.

You'll never catch me alive, shitbird.

[Desert Financial]

You'll never catch me alive, shitbird.

Wait,

don't leave.

I know we've had our differences, and, well... I'm sorry. It was foolish of me to try to pigeonhole you. Is there anything I can do to make it better?

...


Here, I know. Here's some delicious sushi.

[Desert Financial]

Wait,

don't leave.

I know we've had our differences, and, well... I'm sorry. It was foolish of me to try to pigeonhole you. Is there anything I can do to make it better?

...


Here, I know. Here's some delicious sushi.

Sushi?? My favorite! Thanks!

[Desert Financial]

Sushi?? My favorite! Thanks!

Haha.

[Desert Financial]

Haha.

... What's so funny...?

[Desert Financial]

... What's so funny...?

You're just... so Democratic when you're eating. That's all.

[Desert Financial]

You're just... so Democratic when you're eating. That's all.

I thought you said we weren't going to do this anymore!!!

[Desert Financial]

I thought you said we weren't going to do this anymore!!!

[Desert Financial]

That hack just ripped off Carl Jung. He also looks like a chipmunk of Valium.

[Desert Financial]

That hack just ripped off Carl Jung. He also looks like a chipmunk of Valium.

Don't change the subject.

[Desert Financial]

Don't change the subject.

It's my thread. I do what I want.

[Desert Financial]

It's my thread. I do what I want.

Just relax and take a deep breath. Inhale. Exhale.