hmmm...Originally Posted by Banana Pancakes
I found his logic to be very gamma.
It was also very easy for me to understand
are you British?
hmmm...I found his logic to be very gamma.
It was also very easy for me to understand
are you British?
"If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann
*sigh*
*checks out Rick's typing*
*actually tries to listen to what Dawkins is saying*
BRB
"If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann
Richard Dawkins
i sense Te leading...
Richard Dawkins on militant atheism | Video on TED.com
lol^
RichardDawkins.net - The Official Richard Dawkins Website
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins[/ame]
Videos:
richard dawkins - Google Video
www.world-of-dawkins.com/
Last edited by Not A Communist Shill; 05-02-2009 at 02:44 AM.
"If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann
He's Ti ENTp guys.
VI:
Quotes:
"What are all of us but self-reproducing robots?" he asked. "We have been put together by our genes and what we do is roam the world looking for a way to sustain ourselves and ultimately produce another robot * a child."
"There is no spirit-driven life force, no throbbing, heaving, pullulating, protoplasmic, mystic jelly. Life is just bytes and bytes and bytes or digital information. "
"Your DNA may be destined to mingle with mine. Salutations!"
"I have just discovered that without her father's consent this sweet, trusting, gullible six-year-old is being sent, for weekly instruction, to a Roman Catholic nun. What chance has she?"
"With so many mindbytes to be downloaded, so many mental codons to be replicated, it is no wonder that child brains are gullible, open to almost any suggestion, vulnerable to subversion, easy prey to Moonies, Scientologists and nuns. Like immune-deficient patients, children are wide open to mental infections that adults might brush off without effort."
"Think about the two qualities that a virus, or any sort of parasitic replicator, demands of a friendly medium,. the two qualities that make cellular machinery so friendly towards parasitic DNA, and that make computers so friendly towards computer viruses. These qualities are, firstly, a readiness to replicate information accurately, perhaps with some mistakes that are subsequently reproduced accurately; and, secondly, a readiness to obey instructions encoded in the information so replicated."
"The second requirement of a virus-friendly environment --- that it should obey a program of coded instructions --- is again only quantitatively less true for brains than for cells or computers. We sometimes obey orders from one another, but also we sometimes don't. Nevertheless, it is a telling fact that, the world over, the vast majority of children follow the religion of their parents rather than any of the other available religions. Instructions to genuflect, to bow towards Mecca, to nod one's head rhythmically towards the wall, to shake like a maniac, to ``speak in tongues'' --- the list of such arbitrary and pointless motor patterns offered by religion alone is extensive --- are obeyed, if not slavishly, at least with some reasonably high statistical probability. "
"The argument of this book is that we, and all other animals, are machines created by our genes. "
"We are survival machines--robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules known as genes. This is a truth which still fills me with astonishment. "
The end is nigh
Meh, I can see a closer similarity between Christian Bale and Ssmall than between all these people. I'm not getting it.
This is an interesting comment. Anyone who's actually read Dawkins knows very well his tendency to stretch out an explanation beyond what is necessary.
SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype
The "Alpha cast" isn't apparent in any of those people, apart from maybe in the case of Dawkins himself.
Rick and Expat actually lean towards ESE.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I dont even know what that is.
I'm going by the similarities I see in them.
Could you explain more. I mean, Carla nit-picked some irrelevent items (no offense), but how do you not see the same facial shape (especially in the case of Portman & Dawkins) and the similarities in gaze?
And I put direct quotes too, so don't try and make this all about VI.
The end is nigh
Then its settled, Dawkins was ESE.
No.
The end is nigh
I don't believe Bill Gates, Natalie Portman, and Ben Stiller are ENTps. Maybe the reason Dawkins and Portman look the same is because they are both Beta Introverts!
I think Richard Dawkins is very good at using analogies (i.e. saying genes are like a team of oarsman) and utilising many case studies; he's good at fairly watertight reasoning (by virtue of leaving no stone unturned), and also, he's good at clarifying exactly what it is meant by a word or idea. I do think the ENTp case has some merit, but on the otherhand, I am slightly more persuaded by the arguments for ISTj because of his temerament. I believe a good case was made for him being Fe-valuing in another thread also...which does not detract from the case for ENTp.
Hmm, well Ti ENTp's do come across as stiffer and more "rigid" than the Ne subtype. I won't argue your typings of the other celebrities' types, cuz it'll just go on and on and on lol. Btw the other guy is Will Wright, creator of the Sim series and Spore. He looks alot like me lol. I'm certain he's Ti ENTp.
Well, maybe some more info will surface on Dawkins in this thread, but as of now I'm stickin to mah guns.
The end is nigh
Of course not, but they are both knowledgeable who do actually draw upon evidence to support their claims. They both have a fairly an accurate track record on typing, so it is worth thinking about.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
lol, this is fascinating. If this turns out to be the case, I'd never forgive myself! Ugh, I'm liable to be persuaded.
(It's just that I consider myself an INTj, and Richard Dawkins has been an inspiration of my for many years, and yet, I have found he can attack people in a way I find a little disconcerting, and perhaps not what I'd expect from my dual - I can agree with his point, but not always the manner in which he voices it).
Thanks.
There was a lengthy discussion on Rick's userpage on ESEs on the wiki, between Rick, myself, and Ritella. Rick at first proposed ILE, and I was going for LSE. Based largely on a tw-hour video called "The Four Horsemen" where Dawkins exchanges ideas with Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Dennett and Sam Harris, we agreed on ESE, largely due to the interactions on the video.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
hmmmmm. i haven't given it much thought. but i'm really curious. let's see if i have anything useful to share once i check out this video.
"If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann
Bill Gates' an obvious ENTj.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
FDG, do you think Bill Gates is at all similar to you?
Because judging by how you act I think not.
He has absolutely none of the Se valuing that I see in you.
The end is nigh
Whenever I read or see an interview, I can see that the way we think about things is exactly the same. I don't know how Bill Gates acts in his everyday life, though.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I've been reading my own argument for Dawkins being an ESTj that I made awhile back, and I'm partly convinced by it. But if Douglas Adams was an ENTp, it seems unlikely that DA was RD's beneficiary (the opposite would be more likely in fact).
It might be interesting to look into the type of W. D. Hamilton - Dawkins wrote an eulogy for him (he also wrote one for Adams) - I can only find a newspaper obituary by him online.
He's not FeSi.
First of all it's "intuitively obvious" that he's not. When I watched a document serie of him, he didn't seem like FeSi at all. Then my guess would have been TiSe, TeNi or NiTe. He seemed very calm in those, and not very expressive, he mostly listened what other people were saying, and waiting calmly them to finish, before commenting. And these were people with opposing views compared to him. He then dismantled their faulty logic, and used Te-arguments to show them wrong. He didn't care at all how they were going to feel about it, but he wasn't either deliberately trying to aggravate them either. One of the women she talked, physically started to shake in anger/disbelief (or some other emotion like that), when he started to unload Te-evidence for evolution, how some of the jaw-bones of reptiles have moved backwards in skull, and formed the ear bones of mammals. That kind of behaviour is the opposite how FeSi's are.
Ricks main argument is based on quotes from Dawkins, where he seems appreciative towards other scientists or something alike (bear with me, I'm drawing whote he wrote from memory, I'm too lazy to go to find that wiki page again), that isn't proof for Fe-leading, it could implicate a Fe-valuer though. There are NeTi's right here on this board that often write similarily about other people, Vero for example. Also my intuitive guess is that most of what's written in his books really are not about Fe, can't be. It just case of Rick paying too much attention on details, and missing what's (probably) prevalent in his books. I haven't read any of the books, so I can't be entirely sure, but based what information I have indirectly gathered about them, I'm sure I'm right.
His other argument is intertype relations from a video. Typing based on intertype relations is really quite shaky. Especially trying to guess other peoples intertype relations. And in this case from a short interaction, not relations that been building for months. Also intertype relations don't really always play out in the real life, just like the theories suggest. The relations suggested and the comment why there were that way, could just as well be explained by for example Dawkins being NeTi. If one takes in account not just the labels and theoretical suggestions, how these intertype relations supposedly are. And compare how it playes in real-life. FiSe's can "extinguish" NeTi's, by making them shut up. And NeTi's can "activate" other NeTi's by them both getting excited about something.
Also Rick is missing here one very important intertype relation, the one between Dawkins and Darwin via Darwins literacy. Darwin blew Dawkins mind, and changed his entire view on world. I find this very unlikely event if Dawkins was reading the literacy of his conflictor. He probably wouldn't have read it very far, or just dismissed it as rubbish.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
Ah, that is rather a good point! But I do think the Origin of Species is typically considered a very readable book.
LSI. Interested in "shaking people up" by popularizing a particular way of not only understanding history, but also a sort of general scientific "attitude." He is polite and gracious, which LSIs, particularly ti subs, often are, but imo he doesnt seem "actively" invested in Fe: hes pretty much just talks at people, presents a wall of facts and logic, and seems sort of flustered/confused when people dont listen or understand.
Also with regards to his experience with Darwin, I think Betas are the most likely to have this sort of reaction, to be so inspired by one perspective that they take it upon themselves as a kind of calling to "spread the word" the way he has.
I would be happy with Dawkins as an LSI. LSE is a bit ridiculous (there was a thread about him a while ago and how he reacts to Fe, which is not in the way a Fe role type would), and given your quote, Jason, any Ne valuing type would seem completely out of the question.
@AA: Fabio is most likely SEE. Everyone knows I and many others are put off by his self-typing of LIE, but I'm even more put off by the fact that he regards himself as an ENTJ on Typology Central (Formerly MBTI Central). He used to think of himself as an ESTP, which makes far more sense.
I dunno, I think LIE is not a horrible typing for Fabio. Its not perfect, but imo its better than SLE. SEE might be better, maybe, but honestly at this point I'd have to meet him to make a good call.
Also, to strengthen Beta, he sees himself as a crusader for science.
Yeah I'd basically agree LIE > SLE. I just think SEE is much better.
ETA: it's basically a case for Gamma extrovert with SLE possible. A bit like me being Beta extrovert with SEE possible. I see myself as his Beta counterpart.
Nice. So Bill Gates is a SEE.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
That strengthens nothing.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
See my second post.
lmfao...actually ritella recently showed me a video of a guy who is probably LIE, and he could have been Fabie's twin.
Ashton is still EIE though
lol, I was thinking about this post for about five minutes after I posted it.
It doesn't sound like it strengthens anything, but think about it. Would an Alpha waltz around making documentaries about how the human race must be purged of religion in order to progress? Would an Alpha make grandiose and sweeping claims about how religion is the cause of all war and everything that is wrong in the world, and name his endeavour The Root of All Evil?? Would an Alpha call his book The God Delusion?
If I see similarities between me and unefille, does that make her SLE?
Marx.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
...who essentially wrote books and left it at that. Dawkins travels all over the world to teach and actively, even aggresively spread his views.
But the question was not whether an Alpha SF would do it, but whether an Alpha in general could be expected to write such things, and the answer is unequivocally "yes," since the Alpha Marx very much did that.
Different time, different opportunities. This is a moot point.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
It makes you female.
If I see similarities between me and unefille, does that make her SLE?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Logos you can categorically reject or explain away everything, but in the end, type-relevant differences are beginning to pile up.
A public figure may have a different face to the world than in private, so I'd still bet a penny or two (but not a full dime) on xNTp.
But Dawkins has learned to market himself and his ideas by acting and expressing himself in a way that people relate to, so I guess there's an effect where people - including me - will tend to identify him as closely to themselves as plausible.
Actually SEE seems most plausible to me, after NTp of some sort.
Greetings, ragnar
ILI knowledge-seeker
Reply With Quote
