Socionics and Genetics

[Khola aka Bee]

At the risk of sounding NT....

I often wonder about the links between genetics and socionics- are there any observed links between the two- official or otherwise?

My mum is EIE
Dad is LSI
I'm some breed of Alpha- current thinking is SEI-Fe.
I have one brother and he appears Delta- but possibly Alpha? He has Alpha humour, but appears more Delta, and his girlfriend whom he gets along with really well feels very Delta.

So....

ENFj
ISTj

ISFp
??Tp

Discuss

[olduser]

yes, there is definitely a genetic link in socionics.

[Lotus]

My mom: INFj
My dad: ESTp
My Sister: ____
My brother: ESFp (maybe)
Me: ENTp

[hellothere]

sorry, off topic, but what's that in your signature anamericancer? Do you drum?

[Khola aka Bee]

Pretty straws? They look like pretty straws...?

[theMime.]

Mom: INFj
Dad: INTj
Brother: ENFp
Brother 2: ISTp
Sister: ESTp
Me: ISFp

[theMime.]

My mom: INFj
My dad: ESTp

[Mediator Kam]

Mom:ISFj
Dad:INTj
Me:ISFp
Bro: maybe ESTp
Sister: ESFj.

[Lotus]

sorry, off topic, but what's that in your signature anamericancer? Do you drum?

Nah, I needed a new signature. I couldn't think of anything. Then I noticed that the stupid arrow turns into a line when you are typing text.. right? Blinking... pulsing line.... and it bothered me... because there is flashing line at the very left of this text box... so I started feeling ocd-ish and off balanced. I had to type the word right a few times.. but i went to far so i had to add lefts and then more rights and ehh... finally i started feeling okay again.

Pretty straws? They look like pretty straws...?

That would be my A-V-A-T-A-R-!

Yeah, they are in the middle of a divorce right now.
Conflictors.....

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Jimbean]

hmm, interesting, I think we have done this before, and I don't think we found any visible link.

But anyway here is mine:

Mom ESE

Father ILE

Sister EII

me Ti, I think ILE

[Mediator Kam]

The majority of the time, one alpha parent brings an alpha into the world. It's like magical spontaneous generation.

[marooned]

Dad: not sure... LII, IEI, ILI, EII (probably one of those four)
Mom: ESE
Sister: EII

Mom's side of the family
Grandpa: unknown - barely knew him
Grandma: ESI
Uncle: LSE (coincidentally gets on extremely well with my sister )
Aunt #1: not sure... maybe SEE or SEI? definitely irrational (tends to be the "unconventional" one... her personality is very contagious... it sort of takes over... I really love it when she's around)
Aunt #2: Fi/Te valuing... rational

Dad's side of the family: unknown - never met them

[Mea]

I think it's connected to genetics in the way that our brain chemicals, etc is connected. Even in the womb though there is environmental influence on how our brains develop starting first with our sex and the hormones involved and going from there. The varying amounts of testosterone for instance while fetuses are developing influences how our brains develop and our ensuing strengths and behavior as well.

I don't think type itself can be inherited, as the factors involved are complex and interacting, but the combination of qualities that influence personality can certainly run in families.

^ exactly my views.

[1981slater]

Dad ISTj
Mom ENFj
Sis ESFp
Me ENTp

[theMime.]

what's up with all the IJs hooking up?

[tcaudilllg]

^ exactly my views.

The short answer to this question is that type is a genetic factor owing to the state of onr or more "switches" of sorts in one's DNA. Most likely it is determined at the moment of conception, during the random recombination process of sperm with egg. The switches can be on or off, the states of which determine whether you're N or S, T or F, E or I. Problem is, we don't know which switches correlate to type. Type is simpler than a gene yet a vital component of personality stability.

I'd like to know what Machintruc thinks about this. I did read something by Gulenko on the process of differentiation which has influenced my views somewhat.

[Ezra]

bee, notice how your mother and father have a good relationship? That was a decision - it was natural; they got together because they fit. In your case, you supervise your mother, probably through upbringing, but not necessarily parental upbringing. I sure as shit am not an SLE due to my parental upbringing. My Se valuing was born at high school. My Ti valuing was certainly inherent, or I gained it partly through my father's - probably - Ti valuing.

The functions, I think, are inherent in everyone. We place value on certain functions more than others because of psychological change throughout life. I don't know how someone can value functions from the day they're born (or be born to value certain functions e.g. there was no way day-year-old Henry V was an EIE at that time, or somehow knew he was, or someone somehow knew he was), and I'd love someone to attempt to explain it to me.

[Khola aka Bee]

The majority of the time, one alpha parent brings an alpha into the world. It's like magical spontaneous generation.

That would be lovely

I can imagine Nick and I with a little alpha spawn one day.....*sigh*

We could groom it and feed it together...he could change the nappies so to avoid a SEI sad....ahhhh yes.

Grandpa is def. Alpha NT and Nick's brother is INTj without a doubt. Hopefully Alpha will carry on down the line....

[Khola aka Bee]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

lol!

[tcaudilllg]

The functions, I think, are inherent in everyone. We place value on certain functions more than others because of psychological change throughout life. I don't know how someone can value functions from the day they're born (or be born to value certain functions e.g. there was no way day-year-old Henry V was an EIE at that time, or somehow knew he was, or someone somehow knew he was), and I'd love someone to attempt to explain it to me.

Ezra, it's painfully, ridiculously simple to explain, and it has been explained to you before. I will not do so yet again, because I know by now there is no point to it, and that you would neither accept nor comprehend it anyhow.

[Ezra]

What the fuck are you talking about, Phaedrus?

[Phaedrus]

What the fuck are you talking about, Phaedrus?

Have you taken your medicine today, Ezra? You are starting to hallucinate again.

[Ezra]

Yeah, I have to admit. That was a hard joke to get if you're a bit of an idiot.

[Phaedrus]

Yeah, I have to admit. That was a hard joke to get if you're a bit of an idiot.

You are probably right about that.

[Slacker]

Mom: ESTj
Dad: ENFj
Sister: INFj
Me: ENFp
Brother: ISFj

Husband: ISTp
Daughter: ENFp

I'm going to add in some more family members:

Mom (ENTj) - mother is ESFj and father is ISFp. Siblings: ESTp (not positive about this one), ESFj, ISTp, INFj (not sure about this one), INTj, ISTp, ENTp

Dad (ENFj) - mother is INFj and father is ENFp. Siblings: ESFj, ENFp

[Slacker]

bee, notice how your mother and father have a good relationship? That was a decision - it was natural; they got together because they fit. In your case, you supervise your mother, probably through upbringing, but not necessarily parental upbringing. I sure as shit am not an SLE due to my parental upbringing. My Se valuing was born at high school. My Ti valuing was certainly inherent, or I gained it partly through my father's - probably - Ti valuing.

The functions, I think, are inherent in everyone. We place value on certain functions more than others because of psychological change throughout life. I don't know how someone can value functions from the day they're born (or be born to value certain functions e.g. there was no way day-year-old Henry V was an EIE at that time, or somehow knew he was, or someone somehow knew he was), and I'd love someone to attempt to explain it to me.

You have limited experience so it might seem like that to you based on what you've seen, but it doesn't always work like that. Expat and my mom are both ENTjs with ESFj/ISFp parents. My neighbors are ENFp and INFj and have a daughter who is Beta ST.

Babies and toddlers show a great deal of inherent personality, to some extent right from birth. It's really amazing. But that doesn't prove that it's genetic - it could be due to a number of factors, including more than one biological factor. I'm personally convinced that it is at least close to being set at birth.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

There is nothing to prove socionic type is directly genetic. There is no way to prove it at the moment either. First we would need to identify what genes affected personality (which could be at least thousands) and then from that find out which ones affect socionic type. I don't know how to do that. We would need to first of all find a way to monitor type by brain scan (something like brain type which some scientist is/was working no) because how do we know our typing is accurate unless it can be monitored scientifically?

It does look like the dichotomy of extroversion and introversion could be physiologically related..an immensely complicated procedure to map genetically..plus to tie in with socionics would it need to be functional related?

There is some evidence to suggest type development occurs within the womb, but I do not have that at hand just now to write about it further at this stage.

There is even credible evidence to suggest birth month affects personality related or mental conditional traits.

Any further questions..answers will be on a postcard.

Fascinating stuff I'm sure

[Ezra]

Mom: ESTj
Dad: ENFj
Sister: INFj
Me: ENFp
Brother: ISFj

Husband: ISTp
Daughter: ENFp

Poor Dad. Plagued by Deltas (and a Gamma who no doubt would get along well with Deltas).

You have limited experience so it might seem like that to you based on what you've seen, but it doesn't always work like that. Expat and my mom are both ENTjs with ESFj/ISFp parents. My neighbors are ENFp and INFj and have a daughter who is Beta ST.

What! That pretty much strengthens my claim.

[dbmmama]

bee, notice how your mother and father have a good relationship? That was a decision - it was natural; they got together because they fit. In your case, you supervise your mother, probably through upbringing, but not necessarily parental upbringing. I sure as shit am not an SLE due to my parental upbringing. My Se valuing was born at high school. My Ti valuing was certainly inherent, or I gained it partly through my father's - probably - Ti valuing.

The functions, I think, are inherent in everyone. We place value on certain functions more than others because of psychological change throughout life. I don't know how someone can value functions from the day they're born (or be born to value certain functions e.g. there was no way day-year-old Henry V was an EIE at that time, or somehow knew he was, or someone somehow knew he was), and I'd love someone to attempt to explain it to me.

that's because you don't have kids to see how they are from the beginning. each of mine has had their preferences right away. it's apparent in their behaviors in what they value. and i believe it happens at conception. they don't know they are "a type," they just are. they go about the business of growing up and being themselves. i've worked with kids for, oh my gosh!, 20 years, probably as long as you've been alive. they are individuals from the get go! to me, it's the upbringing that affects HOW someone views who they are and their strengths. you can have an SLE that may not look like and SLE because their upbringing didn't value it and punished them for acting that way. it doesn't "stop" them from being an SLE, but it does stop them from being the best and healthiest SLE THEY can be.

my attempt, did it work at all for ya?

love
KJ

[dbmmama]

Nah, your child will be Gamma. ;P

totally got that hit too.

lv
kj

[Joy]

Mom: SLE
Dad: IEI
Me: LIE
Brother: ILI
Sister: EII

[Expat]

Me: LIE
Mom: ESE
Dad: SEI
Brother: ILE

Pattern (if any): All Alphas except myself. SF parents, NT sons.

My ESE mother: EIE mom and EII dad. No siblings.

My SEI father: (I never knew his parents enough): two ESI sisters

Another family I've known very well for decades, since childhood:

Father: LSI
Mother: SEI
Son: SLI
Daughter: ESI
Pattern (if any): one quadra each; all sensors, all introverts, two pairs of quasi-identicals

[eunice]

Mom: Si-ISFp
Dad: Ne-INTj
Me: Ne-INFj
Bro: Se-ESTp

I got along with my bro the best, in case you are wondering. =)

[dbmmama]

our genetics are the way they are because of what was whispered into our Soul as we "became" human. genetics does not determine type. Spirit determines it and we agree to go along for the ride. THEN our genetics and who we are to be raised by and with take shape according to the whisperings.............which change at will within any given moment.........

lv
kj

[Blaze]

Mom: Si-ISFp
Dad: Ne-INTj
Me: Ne-INFj
Bro: Se-ESTp

I got along with my bro the best, in case you are wondering. =)

really? how's that?

cool book on the balance between genetics and dynamic environmental forces:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0060...pt#reader-link

[redbaron]

Babies and toddlers show a great deal of inherent personality, to some extent right from birth. It's really amazing. But that doesn't prove that it's genetic - it could be due to a number of factors, including more than one biological factor. I'm personally convinced that it is at least close to being set at birth.

agreed.

Mom: INFj
Dad: ISFp
Me: INFp
Brother: INFp

Husband: ESFj
his mom: ESFp
his dad: ISFj
his brother: ISFj

So my family now is:

me: INFp
husband: ESFj
daughter: ESFj
daughter: INFp
son: not sure yet, probably INFp or ISFp

[Joy]

I think my eight year is is Gamma NT, probably ILI.

[Blaze]

redbaron your family of creation is on ethics overload hahaha

my ex's family:

mother: istp
father: entj
sister: intp
him: estp
stepmother: isfj
new girlfriend: infp

my family:

mother: estj
father: infj
brother: intj
brother: enfp
me: entp

me and my kids:

me: entp
daughter: esfj
daughter: entp

my family is like Ne overload....if personality is genetics, then my quadra genes are dominant lol. i figure my ex was better off with me than with gamma breathing down his neck, kinda like i was better off with beta than with delta breathing down my neck.

[redbaron]

redbaron your family of creation is on ethics overload hahaha

Yup. It can be fun sometimes but there are other times it ain't pretty.