"immoral" INFjs

[UDP]

Fi and Fe aren't about actually being good people. Just because those types might talk more or vocalize more or comment more about what is right and wrong or positive or whatever - making normative statements, doesn't mean they are particularly saintly themselves. It's kind of like saying - oh, you're a priest, right? That must mean you're a good person. Obviously that isn't the case; someones occupation or someone's type doesn't mean morality.

All people have to fight their weaknesses and overcome difficulties, and deal with different pressures in different ways. EIIs, yes, like everybody else, make bad decisions, wuss out, use people, cop out, and other such things. EIIs tend to be immoral via passivity or omission, using their reservedness or typically seeming ethical disposition. Although not always.

I think the 'sin' of EIIs is most often developing a sense of ambivalence about things, and/or their own their own relationship to them. There can be an expectation that action is dependent upon other people for something to change or happen; or thinking that by the amount mental energy or emotion they put into things, that will, therefore, translate into reality somehow. I've seen this in E9s, but also the E6s and the E4s, in their own ways. Basically, just because they are 'aware' of relationships or even 'ethical structures', that doesn't mean they are going to own up to them fully or use them properly.

[Beautiful sky]

Fi and Fe aren't about actually being good people. Just because those types might talk more or vocalize more or comment more about what is right and wrong or positive or whatever - making normative statements, doesn't mean they are particularly saintly themselves. It's kind of like saying - oh, you're a priest, right? That must mean you're a good person. Obviously that isn't the case; someones occupation or someone's type doesn't mean morality.

All people have to fight their weaknesses and overcome difficulties, and deal with different pressures in different ways. EIIs, yes, like everybody else, make bad decisions, wuss out, use people, cop out, and other such things. EIIs tend to be immoral via passivity or omission, using their reservedness or typically seeming ethical disposition. Although not always.

I think the 'sin' of EIIs is most often developing a sense of ambivalence and expectation that action is dependent upon other people for something to change or happen; or thinking that by the amount mental energy or emotion they put into things, that will, therefore, translate into reality somehow. I've seen this in E9s, but also the E6s and the E4s, in their own ways.

We never omit information. Always ethical.

[UDP]

We never omit information. Always ethical.

edit: eh, whatever. I forget sometimes that it's just not worth it to respond to you.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

edit: eh, whatever. I forget sometimes that it's just not worth it to respond to you.

I actually thought it was quite a good post.

Perhaps not to resurrect an old joke of yours, but it occurs to me that if this girl really is EII, she's likely the sort of type to bake you brownies.

[UDP]

I'm compelled to 'take shots' at her all the time because it's sort of nonstop baloney, but whatever.

As for the brownies, yeah, you might be right.
The robotic nature, though, it's strange. "Here, I made you brownies, because it's what EIIs do". :-/

[UDP]

PS

A consequence of the above paragraph often is physical incapacitation of some sort. Look at Dostoevsky, who couldn't manage himself and had gambling issues among other things:

Later Career
In December 1859, Dostoyevsky returned to Saint Petersburg, where he ran a series of unsuccessful literary journals, Vremya (Time) and Epokha (Epoch), with his older brother Mikhail. The latter was shut down as a consequence of its coverage of the Polish Uprising of 1863. That year Dostoyevsky traveled to Europe and frequented the gambling casinos. There he met Apollinaria Suslova, the model for Dostoyevsky's "proud women", such as the two characters named Katerina Ivanovna, in Crime and Punishment and The Brothers Karamazov. Dostoyevsky was devastated by his wife's death in 1864, which was followed shortly thereafter by his brother's death. He was financially crippled by business debts; furthermore, he decided to assume the responsibility of his deceased brother's outstanding debts, and he also provided for his wife's son from her earlier marriage and his brother's widow and children. Dostoyevsky sank into a deep depression, frequenting gambling parlors and accumulating massive losses at the tables.

Dostoyevsky suffered from an acute gambling compulsion and its consequences. By one account[who?] he completed Crime and Punishment, possibly his best known novel, in a mad hurry because he was in urgent need of an advance from his publisher. He had been left practically penniless after a gambling spree. Dostoyevsky wrote The Gambler simultaneously in order to satisfy an agreement with his publisher Stellovsky who, if he did not receive a new work, would have claimed the copyrights to all of Dostoyevsky's writings.

Plenty of EIIs drown themselves in drugs or fantasy lands or depressions, focusing on their own comfort or a fixation, as a coping mechanism or otherwise. I've seen EIIs have unhealthy attitudes towards sex, people, drugs, addictions, etc.

[Beautiful sky]

PS

A consequence of the above paragraph often is physical incapacitation of some sort. Look at Dostoevsky, who couldn't manage himself and had gambling issues among other things:
Plenty of EIIs drown themselves in drugs or fantasy lands or depressions, focusing on their own comfort or a fixation, as a coping mechanism or otherwise. I've seen EIIs have unhealthy attitudes towards sex, people, drugs, addictions, etc.

Just because you do those things that doesn't mean you are unethical towards other human beings; you are only doing them for your self and not hurting others. If we realize we hurt others by our actions those things would weigh heavily on our hearts and we would strive to make things better. So what if we have physical incapacitations of any sort, depression is not easy to deal with. What we take upon our selves as a moral responsibility to others is a lot to for any one person to take up at any time.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Just because you do those things that doesn't mean you are unethical towards other human beings; you are only doing them for your self and not hurting others.

Hmmm, I sort of felt like contributing to conversation for some reason.

Do you really think it is simple as that? Doing those things can for instance have an adverse affect on friends, family, even partner, people who care about you and all that.

I'm not convinced it's as easy as you portray here, perhaps?

I'm compelled to 'take shots' at her all the time because it's sort of nonstop baloney, but whatever.

Yeah, kinda like that myself, it's a strange one.

As for the brownies, yeah, you might be right.
The robotic nature, though, it's strange. "Here, I made you brownies, because it's what EIIs do". :-/

Yeah, I think that's the thing where it appears to me that she's got these really simple ideas of what types do so that means she (or others) do them.

Robotic nature of it, sort of like the replica .... ever seen for instance the "Buffy-bot" from Buffy the Vampire slayer?

Hmmm, maybe over time we'll get somewhere, strange situation and all.

[Beautiful sky]

Hmmm, I sort of felt like contributing to conversation for some reason.

Do you really think it is simple as that? Doing those things can for instance have an adverse affect on friends, family, even partner, people who care about you and all that.

I'm not convinced it's as easy as you portray here, perhaps?

I know that when I isolate myself when I am in depression, I hurt my mom, because she wants to see me, to talk to me and to be a part of my life; but, I feel like I will make it worse for myself not to shut myself out for a while; then, when I have gotten over the worst of the deal, I take her flowers and give her a lot of loving attention. People who know us understand this about us and take steps to help us. They, like our duals, protect us from excessive chores that cause the cycle in the first place.

Delta men

ISTp don't do many chores and are not too demanding so they free us up from excessive chores. Activity because of limited chores and not a shield from user people.
ESTj rationally organize and eliminate excessive chores and make sure people who use us are not allowed to do so. Dual because they are a shield.

[Shagbag The Wizard]

Here, I made you brownies, because it's what EIIs do

I'll make you some brownies Ryu.


(I've never made a brownie in my life, but apparently this is a hidden skill of mine, hidden even to me. One could almost say I don't know my own strength....)

[Shagbag The Wizard]

Closest thing to an immoral INFj that I've come across was Morgan Freeman in some of his darker roles.

I'm still bummed that he didn't get the oscar. I mean.....Nelson Mandela, come on guys..... how was that not oscar worthy?