How to romance series: LSI

[Kim]

Re: IEEs and "hanging on," I could see that NeFi seems to suggest all sorts of possible scenarios and will want time to reassess and reevaluate the relationship. You don't just give up on relationships until you have made sure you exhausted all possibilities. I can see how for certain IEEs, this means hanging on when there is nothing to hang on to.

With regards to IEEs "seeing what was not there," they might be prone to wanting to see things from their NeFi perspective rather than based on what they are told by the person, but that is also because IEEs often DO have insights. I am not saying I have NeFi superpowers, but when it comes to men and relationships, it has happened to me over and over again that men broke up with me and I tried to tell them "you are making a mistake" (this might have been for different reasons, they felt they had different life plans, they thought I was too unpredictable, etc.). Now I personally don't hang on to someone who does not want to be with me, so I let them go. The majority of these men contacted me again between 6 months and 15 years later to say they were wrong and they made a mistake.

My point is that NeFi is very good at assessing and reshaping relationships as needed and it can be frustrating to see that people won't take the ride with you (SLIs are likely to do it).

That being said, and to get back on topic, the LSI who motivated this thread told me "he no longer wanted to communicate with me" after I had a bad day and annoyed him with something I said. I tried to explain, but he was done. It's fine and all, but a bit baffling to me how people can just break things off so cleanly. I can do it when someone treats me badly, but not when I am annoyed or when someone does not act according to my script. I feel it's such a waste of opportunity. He feels he is not going to waste his time trying things with someone who will annoy him. Fair enough on both parts I think.

[Myst]

That being said, and to get back on topic, the LSI who motivated this thread told me "he no longer wanted to communicate with me" after I had a bad day and annoyed him with something I said. I tried to explain, but he was done. It's fine and all, but a bit baffling to me how people can just break things off so cleanly.

I did that with a guy (not IEE) when I saw things started to go downhill based on something the guy did out of the blue added to how the relationship was before that. I realized at that moment that the relationship was not progressing in any particular way before this and this moment was negative so I added two and two together and I dumped him immediately. Chalk it up to the Ni HA. I dunno about your LSI of course.

[Kim]

I did that with a guy (not IEE) when I saw things started to go downhill based on something the guy did out of the blue added to how the relationship was before that. I realized at that moment that the relationship was not progressing before this and this moment was negative so I added two and two together and I dumped him. Chalk it up to the Ni HA. I dunno about your LSI of course.

Well, actually everything was fine, but I was getting impatient because things wouldn't progress. I think he really needed things to be on his terms and it could very well have been an issue that has nothing to do with type. But when I can't have a crappy day and annoy someone without being told that he is "put off," I really can't help it. I don't believe in being on my best, most accommodating behavior for too long.

I think he felt like "this is how it's going to be, no way! Too pushy and intrusive."
I felt like "I can't have a crappy day and be temporarily annoying. Yeah, no. It's not all about you..."

[Kim]

I did find the severity of his reaction a bit ridiculous. He was all formal, jeez. A simple "I don't think we are a good match" would have been perfectly suitable, but I had to be scolded. Probably not type-related though.

[golden]

I did find the severity of his reaction a bit ridiculous. He was all formal, jeez. A simple "I don't think we are a good match" would have been perfectly suitable, but I had to be scolded. Probably not type-related though.

This scolding is shitty and ungracious and unkind. Sounds like an asshole thing. Could be NTR, or not. I've known two LSI men who would probably do that, and they were both European (one Austrian, one German) and both probably Ti subtype.

I think all the explanations you gave about the NeFi point of view make a lot of sense in light of questions I have about some IEEs I've known and will be rereading them. It's a bit hard to bridge the gap at times?

I also remember in light of your comments that the IEE my husband dated was often asking him "where things were going" and so on, and it didn't work too well for him. I don't really wonder where things are going . . . I just know either they're kinda going where I want, or they're not, and maybe the same way you say that you "assess and reshape" relationships, I might assess and reshape circumstances to make events or situations be more as I wish? But I don't feel I can do that with people per se, I'd have no clue how.

Would you be willing to say more about what assessing and reshaping relationships is like in practice? What changes? Is it behaviors, attitudes, what?

ETA: What you said about having the crappy day is interesting. When I have a crappy day, I tend to withdraw from people. I tend to think, "I'm feeling crappity and I'm going to be annoying, so I'd better keep my distance until I'm more fit to interact." I'm NOT saying that's right, or healthy, only that I automatically do this. So the complaints I get from my LSI are more that I'm being distant or unreachable, and if I explain that I'm feeling down or upset, then he accepts it.

[Kim]

This scolding is shitty and ungracious and unkind. Sounds like an asshole thing. Could be NTR, or not. I've known two LSI men who would probably do that, and they were both European (one Austrian, one German) and both probably Ti subtype.

I did notice some pretty clear narcissistic and sociopathic tendencies, so it might not be type-related. Either way, it's a good thing.

I think all the explanations you gave about the NeFi point of view make a lot of sense in light of questions I have about some IEEs I've known and will be rereading them. It's a bit hard to bridge the gap at times?

Which gap, specifically?

I also remember in light of your comments that the IEE my husband dated was often asking him "where things were going" and so on, and it didn't work too well for him. I don't really wonder where things are going . . . I just know either they're kinda going where I want, or they're not, and maybe the same way you say that you "assess and reshape" relationships, I might assess and reshape circumstances to make events or situations be more as I wish? But I don't feel I can do that with people per se, I'd have no clue how.

I want to know where I stand with a person with regards to emotional distance. I can adapt and go with the flow in life, but I cannot handle emotional ambiguity. I think asking where things might go is covering two things: "how committed is he to this" and "what are the new options/possibilities/restrictions that come with this point of the relationship." I always have to have options - I want to move to California, for example, so I need to know how committed someone is because it has an impact on my life choices. I can't look at my life as a linear development that will unfold - I see it as a collection of possibilities and possible avenues to take (I am not set in my career, I don't want to live here, I don't have kids, so there is a lot of flexibility). So I want to know where I stand with someone so I can adapt my plans to the relationship/figure out if we can do this, etc. I also love feeling secure with someone. My life is in constant flux and there is so much change and my significant other is, ideally, my constant. I love that feeling of emotional security (which is also perhaps why I don't withdraw from them when I feel bad, see below).

Would you be willing to say more about what assessing and reshaping relationships is like in practice? What changes? Is it behaviors, attitudes, what?

Like I said above - now I am in the very initial stages of seeing an ILE. He is flexible, too, has similar life plans, will retire from the military soon, etc. So the logistics would work very well (also age, etc.). If we take this to the next level, we could easily reach a consensus on where to go next. Before him I was dating someone who is very much tied to this area and I approached it with a different mindset. I knew that if we take this to the next level, I would have to stay here. Of course this is the same for everyone, but I can't just sit and let it happen. I always want to know what's next so I can assess all my options. That is why I am incredibly impatient and incapable of happily taking things slow. I am not sure if this answers your questions.

ETA: What you said about having the crappy day is interesting. When I have a crappy day, I tend to withdraw from people. I tend to think, "I'm feeling crappity and I'm going to be annoying, so I'd better keep my distance until I'm more fit to interact." I'm NOT saying that's right, or healthy, only that I automatically do this. So the complaints I get from my LSI are more that I'm being distant or unreachable, and if I explain that I'm feeling down or upset, then he accepts it.

I withdraw from people, but not from significant others. They are my comfort zone and my outlet. In this particular case, he added to my crappy week because I felt homesick and lonely and he was distant, so I wanted clarification. To him that was pushy and annoying. But I got the clarification I needed.

[golden]

I did notice some pretty clear narcissistic and sociopathic tendencies, so it might not be type-related. Either way, it's a good thing.

Running like the wind would've been my advice there. Egad.

Which gap, specifically?

I knew when I wrote that that it didn't make much sense but left it hanging there anyway. When I've had conflicts with ENFps, there's been an interpretive gap for me between what they say and what they do. I think we may share a lot of values, but our problem-solving approaches and comfort zones and ideas about where boundaries exist and how and why to construct them apparently clash. Conflict with ENFp is very hard for me to resolve. Once it starts, we can't even agree on why we've come into conflict in the first place.

I want to know where I stand with a person with regards to emotional distance. I can adapt and go with the flow in life, but I cannot handle emotional ambiguity. I think asking where things might go is covering two things: "how committed is he to this" and "what are the new options/possibilities/restrictions that come with this point of the relationship." I always have to have options - I want to move to California, for example, so I need to know how committed someone is because it has an impact on my life choices. I can't look at my life as a linear development that will unfold - I see it as a collection of possibilities and possible avenues to take (I am not set in my career, I don't want to live here, I don't have kids, so there is a lot of flexibility). So I want to know where I stand with someone so I can adapt my plans to the relationship/figure out if we can do this, etc. I also love feeling secure with someone. My life is in constant flux and there is so much change and my significant other is, ideally, my constant. I love that feeling of emotional security (which is also perhaps why I don't withdraw from them when I feel bad, see below).

Since I grew up in a small town and didn't want to stay there, I'm familiar with this kind of conundrum, but I didn't feel like there were any possibilities for me in the town, so I didn't date anyone local, ever, beyond a compulsory prom date or double date. I would not get involved with anyone, which painted me as a freak and a cold negater. But my one real goal was to get the hell outta Dodge, and it was well worth being lonely and distrusted to be certain I achieved it.

What you said here fascinates me because I am your opposite in a crucial way: I don't want to keep my options open. I am drowning in options that pull me this way and that, and I constantly seek to jettison and eliminate them. So seeing you put things this way really helps me understand more about a starkly different mentality. Maybe this points to why someone with Ne-polr would be my dual.

This also might help explain why one particular ENFp hates me so much, seeing me as uncommitted when nothing could be further from the truth. There must be a different idea about what commitment looks like. I do see many situations as unfolding in a linear way; for me there's a lot of inevitability in various life circumstances, so I don't worry about "what next." I'm looking at it more like this: "In x number of years, the situation is likely to look like xyz, because of abc. How I get there is not all that important. I know I will probably need to do efg, but it's a question of when. For now, I will have to live with a lot of discomfort."

Like I said above - now I am in the very initial stages of seeing an ILE. He is flexible, too, has similar life plans, will retire from the military soon, etc. So the logistics would work very well (also age, etc.). If we take this to the next level, we could easily reach a consensus on where to go next. Before him I was dating someone who is very much tied to this area and I approached it with a different mindset. I knew that if we take this to the next level, I would have to stay here. Of course this is the same for everyone, but I can't just sit and let it happen. I always want to know what's next so I can assess all my options. That is why I am incredibly impatient and incapable of happily taking things slow. I am not sure if this answers your questions.

I don't like taking things slowly either, but it must be for a different reason. I guess, too, that when things are unfolding slowly, I ascribe the slowness to my own "ripeness" and the timing of things outside myself. I wouldn't know how to associate it to another person or have it hinge on them, and to ask someone else to agree to what's coming next--? (My interpretation of what you wrote.) I probably see other people as variables in the larger situation. But my saying all this makes me wonder how anything actually does happen in my life, lol. Maybe it's a problem. :|

Thank you for responding, Kimmeh. So informative.

[Kim]

Thank you for responding, Kimmeh. So informative.

<3

I will respond when I can.

[Myst]

Well, actually everything was fine, but I was getting impatient because things wouldn't progress. I think he really needed things to be on his terms and it could very well have been an issue that has nothing to do with type. But when I can't have a crappy day and annoy someone without being told that he is "put off," I really can't help it. I don't believe in being on my best, most accommodating behavior for too long.

I think he felt like "this is how it's going to be, no way! Too pushy and intrusive."
I felt like "I can't have a crappy day and be temporarily annoying. Yeah, no. It's not all about you..."

I did find the severity of his reaction a bit ridiculous. He was all formal, jeez. A simple "I don't think we are a good match" would have been perfectly suitable, but I had to be scolded. Probably not type-related though.

See, things were not progressing. Same as in my case I described...

What did he say that was explicit scolding? You only quoted him on "I no longer want to communicate with you" and you mentioned he was "put off".

Definitely sounds like he had more problems than just that bad day of yours. It might've just all come out then. Not trying to defend him, just saying. And, what would you have wanted if not "formal"? What was the problem with that?

[Kim]

See, things were not progressing. Same as in my case I described...

He kept talking about what we will do when we see each other again, but made no effort to see me (or help me with my efforts to make it happen). I don't like all talk. If you say you want to do something, do it.

What did he say that was explicit scolding? You only quoted him on "I no longer want to communicate with you" and you mentioned he was "put off".

I don't have the text anymore and don't really want to revisit this in detail, but the tone was condescending and formal and he scolded me for basically misbehaving (aka, not acting according to HIS script) and stating that I was in the wrong (which I wasn't, by the most objective standards). He could have just said "sorry, I don't think this is working out" rather than pointing out my "bad behavior" (which didn't exist).

Definitely sounds like he had more problems than just that bad day of yours.

He was pissed off that I didn't let him do what he wanted. He wanted it all on his terms and he sucked at communicating. I am usually more than happy to own my part in a communication breakdown, but when I ask someone if they are ok and they answer "no" and nothing else and leave me hanging for an entire day and night while I worry my little heart out, and then scold me for being "probing," the issue is with them and them alone. Everything was absolutely hunky dory before, until I got annoyed with the constant talk, but no initiative. When I nicely asked if he is really all that interested he ignored me. Then he deliberately made me worry as punishment for asking again what we are going to do. I have dated someone like this before. It's classic narcissist bullshit.

It might've just all come out then. Not trying to defend him, just saying. And, what would you have wanted if not "formal"? What was the problem with that?

See above. Rather than telling me how annoying my behavior is in the most condescending and ridiculously formal tone, he could have just said "sorry, not working for me."

But other red flags suggest I was dealing with a narcissistic sociopath, so this is likely not type-related.

[Myst]

He kept talking about what we will do when we see each other again, but made no effort to see me (or help me with my efforts to make it happen). I don't like all talk. If you say you want to do something, do it.

Did you explicitly ask for help with your efforts to make it happen?

I don't have the text anymore and don't really want to revisit this in detail, but the tone was condescending and formal and he scolded me for basically misbehaving (aka, not acting according to HIS script) and stating that I was in the wrong (which I wasn't, by the most objective standards). He could have just said "sorry, I don't think this is working out" rather than pointing out my "bad behavior" (which didn't exist).

I'm not sure if it was actually a condescending tone for the formal expression about not wanting to communicate more if it was just text. The scolding part, ok, that's negative.

He was pissed off that I didn't let him do what he wanted. He wanted it all on his terms and he sucked at communicating. I am usually more than happy to own my part in a communication breakdown, but when I ask someone if they are ok and they answer "no" and nothing else and leave me hanging for an entire day and night while I worry my little heart out, and then scold me for being "probing," the issue is with them and them alone. Everything was absolutely hunky dory before, until I got annoyed with the constant talk, but no initiative. When I nicely asked if he is really all that interested he ignored me. Then he deliberately made me worry as punishment for asking again what we are going to do. I have dated someone like this before. It's classic narcissist bullshit.

Are you sure he made you worry deliberately?

Sounds like your way of "probing" was not compatible with him. (This part could be Socionics related.) That, and maybe some unhealthy stuff going on too, sure.

See above. Rather than telling me how annoying my behavior is in the most condescending and ridiculously formal tone, he could have just said "sorry, not working for me."

But other red flags suggest I was dealing with a narcissistic sociopath, so this is likely not type-related.

That tone could've just been Ti stuff.

Red flags are no good though of course.