Conflict in ESI-LIE duality (ISFj and ENTj)

[Adam Strange]

why in ISFj-ENTj duality breaking plates is inefficient and what will you suggest she do instead?
Se is not the most expert tool for expressing how a girl feels

Breaking plates means you have to go out and buy more of them, which is not as efficient as simply not breaking them and using the ones you have.

I would suggest instead that she get a drink and sit down on the bed and we can discuss what is bothering her. That way, we can resolve her concerns and give each other demonstrable evidence of our commitment to work things out.

The ESI is always in doubt and always fears that the relationship is going to fail. She thinks that the LIE will either act irresponsibly, or will spend too much, or will get involved with the wrong people, or will look at other women (all of which we do), and she has few defenses against this, other than to get the LIE's attention, because the LIE cannot not listen to her and has an extremely hard time refusing her requests (the only sure way is to not listen to them, hence the plates to get his attention if all else fails), and the LIE will believe most of what she says, except the crazy and rationally unfounded parts. The LIE must understand what her fears are, and address them one by one, either by complete explanations or by promises, and by this means remove her fears. They can then both see that they are working together toward a goal, and can then make up. A bed is a good place to do that.

It may look like fighting, but it is really a means of simply getting each other's attention so that any differences or concerns can be resolved.

Let's look at the lyrics that the ESI says:

You hit me once (you (the LIE) started this by doing x, which I don't like)
I hit you back
You gave a kick
I gave a slap
You smashed a plate over my head (we argued)
Then I set fire to our bed (and it finally got to the point where sex was in question)

My black eye casts no shadow (I am not hurt by your fighting - LIE's can be fierce fighters, but ESI's are not intimidated)
Your red eye sees no blame (you do not blame me for my feelings - LIE's instead panic when ESI's are upset, and turn their efforts toward fixing the problem)
Your slaps don't stick
Your kicks don't hit (we can't hurt each other)
So we remain the same (and here is proof we are Duals)
Blood sticks
Sweat drips (after all this effort and conflict....)
Break the lock if it don't fit (resolve the problem any way you can, but resolve it)

A kick to the teeth is good for some (some people fight merely to fight)
A kiss with a fist is better than none (we fight because if we didn't constantly reaffirm our strong commitment, our love would fall apart and we'd have nothing)

[yeves]

The ESI is always in doubt and always fears that the relationship is going to fail. She thinks that the LIE will either act irresponsibly, or will spend too much, or will get involved with the wrong people, or will look at other women (all of which we do), and she has few defenses against this, other than to get the LIE's attention, because the LIE cannot not listen to her and has an extremely hard time refusing her requests (the only sure way is to not listen to them, hence the plates to get his attention if all else fails), and the LIE will believe most of what she says, except the crazy and rationally unfounded parts. The LIE must understand what her fears are, and address them one by one, either by complete explanations or by promises, and by this means remove her fears. They can then both see that they are working together toward a goal, and can then make up. A bed is a good place to do that.

It may look like fighting, but it is really a means of simply getting each other's attention so that any differences or concerns can be resolved.

thank you for this intensive explanation from your post could it be said that this dual pair doesn't need to fight if the LIE makes certain to address ESI's concerns and that conflict happens if the LIE is too careless and indifferent to the distress signals? do the ESIs do things that aggravate the LIEs on their turn?

[Adam Strange]

thank you for this intensive explanation from your post could it be said that this dual pair doesn't need to fight if the LIE makes certain to address ESI's concerns and that conflict happens if the LIE is too careless and indifferent to the distress signals? do the ESIs do things that aggravate the LIEs on their turn?

That is probably correct, they don't need to fight, I guess. I may not be the best person to answer this question. I only know two ESI's presently irl (although I've known them both for several years and have interacted with them on a weekly basis) and I once slept with a third, but from what I have read, FDG is married to one and has had several as girlfriends, so he probably has more cumulative experience with them than I do. But I can tell you what I think, based on my own experience, fwiw.

For the most part, spending time with an ESI makes me feel more like a complete human being. Happier, more confident and cheerful, less tense and aggressive. But mostly, happier. They don't have to actually do anything to make me feel this way. They just have to be exactly who they are, and I get happier. In turn, one has told me that she misses me when I'm gone, once said "can this be real life?" (which I took to mean that she is dualizing and is happy, too), and the other is also pretty happy. She will occasionally give me a look that would melt ice cubes at 50 paces, but quickly hides it. I should point out that both of these relationships are platonic, although I'm pretty sure that all three of us have considered changing that.
That is the good part.

The bad part is, they will always doubt, and I will always explore risky possibilities. These things are at once our strengths and weaknesses. My exploration acquires both money and contacts, and loses both money and contacts. Their fears and doubts cause them to not take the initiative and to miss opportunities, but it puts the brakes on my excesses and it conserves our resources. Working on projects together, I will spend without caring about the amounts, but they don't spend unless they have to, and sometimes don't spend enough, and always put any excess away for later. This often results in their spending much more in the long run, both in time and resources, because they didn't spend enough the first time, and in hoarding.

The only time we've had what could be called fights, but which were really just hurt feelings or misunderstandings (at least, that's how I saw it - although now that I think about it, everyone around us was either sitting very still or was moving away. For the ESI's, I think they are probably still thinking about it - they don't forget), were when I slightly criticized one of the ESI's relatives (I'm not doing that again!) and when I was being stubborn about a design decision that the other ESI knew she had made correctly and would not change. She won, I was pretty frustrated, but in the end I saw that she was right.

As for being indifferent to their distress signals, they look distressed most of the time. It is hard for me to tell when they are upset. I think they internalize problems, and the first I know about it is when they say something that is just like a punch to the face, but is really probably just a continuation of their thoughts going back for days. It is easy to see why a LIE's natural reaction is to head toward a fight. Closing the distance immediately is the only way to stop them from doubting you. Before you think about it, before you consider alternate possibilities or all the consequences, you have to focus fully on them and head straight toward the problem. And fix it.

One of the ESI's recently left her job after four years, and she and her manager had words, AFAIK because the manager thought two months notice was not enough. The ESI told me she was scared to go back there to visit her friends, who are still there. Normally, I am always thinking of many things at once, and almost never drop down to less than three things in my head at a time. But when she said "scared", a very strange thing happened to me. Absolutely everything dropped off the table, and I focused completely on her.
ESI's need to believe that your first reaction is going to be to take care of them (but in a completely hands-off way. It is very hard to describe. They don't want your help; they want your support.) And since an LIE's attention will normally drift off to future ventures, I think ESI's have been designed to know exactly how to get that attention focused back down to where they need it.

I don't know what irritates ESI's about LIE's. You'll have to ask them. But one thing that drives me crazy is that they will come to an incorrect conclusion and it is almost impossible to change their minds about it, no matter how obviously false it is. You have to be persistent and rational and hope for the best, and assume that you're not going to win every battle.

[Sol]

There are no conflicts between duals from types point of view.