i think his post in this thread describing how he came to the forum illustrates Si as described by Augusta ("an object's internal state we view as the relationship between events that cause each other"). Si creatives are known for describing the details of how things happened in sequence.Originally Posted by Maritsa33
thought you may be interested in this, as well.
Lol, this coming from someone who only knows me from 3 posts??
Please do elaborate.
Lol, that one tickled me. God I love LSEs.
EII - Ne
5w6 sp/so/sx
Let me give you your own advice, I checked out threads and I see a bunch of people have already told you, so as you say, go read the threads.Lol, this coming from someone who only knows me from 3 posts??
Please do elaborate.
In regards to me doing it, who knows maybe I'll do it when you are not as dismissive of my posts, but I'd recommend you don't hold your breath while you wait, ok?
*s*******
Don't take this the wrong way, but I continue to be amused at you and all the other complete strangers on this forum who presume to tell me what my type is or is not.
In any case, this conversation is no longer of any use to me, so ciao.
EII - Ne
5w6 sp/so/sx
How the hell can you be sure of people on here - you know DA ? I assume you do, you were quite responsive and exposing your belly or your intellectual soft spot if you like.
Following the path of your logic no one on here has the sole right to question one's type. Get familiar with DA and Maritsa
Absurd, I'm not averse to people legitimately and honestly questioning my type, I am averse to complete strangers presumptuously (and arrogantly) stating that I am not the type I think I am.
I find this approach irritatingly immature and unproductive, and was part of the reason I took a several month absence from this place.
Not only do these people know nothing about me IRL, but their underlying implication is that I have not already considered my own typing at great depth and length, as if it was just some arbitrary decision that I'm now stubbornly clinging to for the sake of saving face.
Needless to say, this is completely intolerable for an EII considering how keenly we are already aware of our own inner selves and HARDLY need anyone else to swoop in and summarily 'correct' our entire self-concept after just a few posts worth of interaction with us.
Last edited by Shagbag The Wizard; 10-14-2010 at 07:45 PM.
EII - Ne
5w6 sp/so/sx
^ "Who you say you are" and "Who you project" seem to be two different things.
Are you aware the disconnect?
Do you have a feel for why it's there?
I don't have much opinion (yet) on your type, but exploring the gap between your "self-concept" and "interaction here" might be helpful.
That's cool. No further questions me lord
Oh you were a twat before I questioned your type
Thank you, this is the kind of honest discussion I am open to.
Yes, the apparent "disconnect" has been mentioned before, so I am aware of it.
A number of possible reasons come to mind:
People here cannot see or hear me when I talk, they are interacting purely with text, and therefore have an incomplete picture, leading them to fill in the blanks with their own preconceived expectations.
So if I then go and say something in a funny / outrageous / animated manner, the immediate assumption is Fe-ego. Nevermind that plenty of non-Fe types can exhibit Fe type behaviour quite well at times when it suits them.
I also think that many people here forget to take into account the importance of maturity, personal development, level of dualization etc. of the person they are trying to type. I honestly believe that ALL types are able to develop ALL/ANY of their functions (through regular use) to levels where this would make their base type more obscure (initially).
For example I've noticed that I have a somewhat stronger Te ability than other EIIs I've interacted with, which I must attribute to my LIE dad while growing up. I've also been subjected to a lot of Se and am quite familiar with it, so even though I abhor the use of all forms of aggression and 'pressure', for example, I am able to sometimes convincingly emulate it (usually in a joking manner, or in the form of competitiveness, but never serious confrontation which I hate).
I have also spent a LOT of my life surrounded by Fe egos, and have certainly picked up a few "habits" from them along the way. (Actually, what I have had a serious lack of is Si, and I didn't realise it until I recently started spending time with a couple of SLIs...)
Anyway, point being that people are way to complex to type from only a few forum posts. For this reason I hardly ever question anyone's type on here.
EII - Ne
5w6 sp/so/sx
Oh you were a twat before I questioned your type
More insults without anything actually useful, thanks.
God, why did I bother coming back here.
EII - Ne
5w6 sp/so/sx
To fix your punctuation.
Thank you. I looked up rules for making acronyms plural to double-check, and you are indeed correct. I edited my post and changed all the LSE's to LSEs, but is there a way I can change my title too?
To be nit-picky back, since you seem to like correcting people, there should be a "gh" in "eighth".
Now to respond to people's content, rather than just focusing on their grammar and spelling...
That's me too! I try not to be so stubborn all the time in trying new things. But I haven't gotten around to reading more about socionics yet, even though I know it will probably be useful. There's just so much information!
I'm just curious, what practical applications do you get from socionics? If you don't think it's useful in determining people's abilities, interests, or career possibilities, what do you think it's useful for?
I'm trying to understand what you are arguing on the first page, but you seem to argue with everything.Don't know if you were just in a bad mood or what. Maybe you just don't like Shagbag.
But, are you disagreeing that socionics is like medical science, because it's not as established? Or there's not enough evidence to back it up? I believe many people on this site would disagree with you...
Also, if you disagree with his type, you could politely suggest the type you think he is. Or at least give reasons why you don't think he's EII. Also, Words, what type do you think you are? I see you don't have one posted by your name.
stay out of it and you'll be fine.That's me too! I try not to be so stubborn all the time in trying new things. But I haven't gotten around to reading more about socionics yet, even though I know it will probably be useful. There's just so much information!
I'm just curious, what practical applications do you get from socionics? If you don't think it's useful in determining people's abilities, interests, or career possibilities, what do you think it's useful for?
I'm trying to understand what you are arguing on the first page, but you seem to argue with everything.
Also, if you disagree with his type, you could politely suggest the type you think he is. Or at least give reasons why you don't think he's EII. Also, Words, what type do you think you are? I see you don't have one posted by your name.
I have found a practical use for socionics! Do you consider yourself LSE, and since you think socionics is useless, you think most other LSEs think that way?
Anyway, regarding your example. Why would two people, compatible through socionics, disagree; or why would two people who are incompatible get along? I believe socionics comes into play when you personally communicate with someone on a neutral level. Obviously if someone has bad breath, you are already predisposed to not liking them, or if you're fighting over the same girl, etc. That doesn't mean all of socionics is subjective or false, just because it's possible to not like someone you're compatible with.
In regards to your example of two incompatible people working together maturely on the same job. Yes, of course it's possible. But I would ask, how closely do they have to work together? Is it a job where they have to communicate a lot, and collaborate to come to decisions? Or can they each work independently? Even if they put in the effort to get along, are their energy levels lower after working with each other? Does it take so much energy out of them each time? What about the long-run? How many weeks/months/years can someone take of an energy-draining relationship, before one of them just quits the job?
Like I said, I find a very practical use for socionics. Especially with your example of work, people quit their jobs all the time because they can't stand their coworkers or bosses. Of course it's possible to be professional regardless. But sometimes there's that tension, when trying to work and collaborate with someone, who simply sees the world differently than you. So, conversely, just because it's possible for two incompatible people to agree at work, doesn't mean that all LSEs think socionics is subjective bull. Like I mentioned, I would look at their energy levels and mood before and after the interaction, to see immediate results.
Can you give an example of where experienced socionists disagree on a person's type? I would say the vast majority of people on this forum are still amateurs. I believe experienced socionists (socionicists?) should agree on a person's type if they are given ample examples of a person's behavior, can see from video or real life, or how a person communicates and acts. I believe that because I believe functions manifest themselves in specific behaviors and nuances, which can be picked up by the trained eye.
But I'm curious to understand your perspective. Aren't internet forums intended for discussion? Nobody's forcing you to explain yourself, but I find constantly spewing opinions without explanations or evidence to be rather immature.
Moreover, if you think all of socionics is too subjective to have any practical application, why are you wasting your time posting here? :wink:
Never heard of that personality test, but I guess several people have.
Yes, I was introduced to MBTI and socionics by my roommate in college. He was very smart, and I had a lot of respect for his opinion; so that helped me consider socionics useful.
Yes, I originally used astrology to try to type and categorize people, to understand them better, but eventually found it too subjective, and tough to explain to people without looking like a nutjob lol. I find MBTI/socionics a lot more specific with descriptions, and more understandable.
Now I also gotta look up what Ni PoLR means.Pretty much. I actually got around to reading your type thread posted in your pic thread and you do sound like an Ni PoLR at the very least, so I would imagine you guys don't like to waste time on something like this. Not to say it's impossible for LSE's to take an interest in this, especially if you've found a productive reason for wanting to learn it, and it sounds like you have
I saw "PoLR" used elsewhere in another thread, so I guess it's fairly commonly used.
Yes, I'm new, and still trying to learn!I think it was around 4-5 years ago someone sent me a link to an MBTI test, I took it but found the results rather vague and spotty, so I did a search for MBTI to learn more about it. I think it was on the MBTI page on Wikipedia that I saw a section on Socionics, which I found to be more in depth though incredibly complicated and confusing
Nevertheless it ignited my curiosity so I started to read-up on it and eventually came across this forum. I didn't join since I felt that I didn't know enough to contribute but I continued to read, as well as search for other sites, even the Russian ones which I just used Google translate and Babblefish.
It eventually started to make sense, all the symbols and definitions became like a second language. So I finally joined up and hesitantly began posting here
Lol. I don't mean to offend you, since you seem really nice (I agree with your mom!My mom was the first person to type me. She did it with one sentence, which was, "Honey, you have enormous empathetic ability, compassionate, kind, and you love to help people."
LOL I guess that would make me an empath in MBTI
It's easy to tell that I see possibilities and potentials in human beings, and I value individual nature of human kind no matter how catagorical the Socionics or MBTI typing is like.
I became interested in Socionics five years ago and learned to VI from Dr. Volkov (a) LOL; one of the writers in the socionics website. I love her she's very nice.
LSE's, like you said, are very active and productive and usually wouldn't waste their time on an internet forum, but it's nice when you do. It's nice when you can give time to your introverted dual, who usually stay in and write on a forum.), but are you sure that you're EII? You seem different than the other EII/INFj's on the forum. Most of them come across rather shy, and you seem more bold and outgoing. You strike me as an extroverted feeler. And I think it comes across rather sensing when you prove yourself with your experience, how long you've been studying socionics, and whom you studied from. I would guess you're SEE/ESFp?
EIIs are described as very understanding with people, and they love to help. That doesn't mean you can't also be very understanding and helpful Maritsa! I know it can be very hard to change your self-image, but I urge you to consider another type. Or if you're not too offended, justify why you think you're EII. Why do you think you're much more outgoing than the average EII?
I don't understand why you would ask if she's gay. I read her post again, and nothing even hints on it. Words, mind if I ask how old are you? You seem to love provoking everyone.
Lol I guess a lot of people disagree with you Maritsa?
If you weren't so dismissive of my posts to begin with then maybe I would entertain you with the answers you somehow think you deserve. People like you apparently don't realise this communicaton is a two way street.
Yes, I know of course MBTI is different than socionics; but MBTI says "only the individual can determine his or her true type preference". I think it's somewhat rude to tell someone what their type is. For example, when I disagree with people such as Maritsa about what their type is, I say what I think and make a suggestion. I don't blatantly tell someone they're wrong with their own thinking. Obviously you know yourself better individually than me or any other person on this forum.
Haha.Following the path of your logic no one on here has the sole right to question one's type. Get familiar with DA and Maritsa
Agreed. Nonverbal communication is very important. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Tone of voice, body language, etc.
Yes, I think I have a much stronger Fe compared with other LSEs. I was raised in a Christian school, disciplined for being rude throughout my childhood, taught to consider other people's viewpoints and feelings, although it didn't come naturally at all. My parents divorced, and I lived with my Mom and two older sisters as the only guy in the house. I had to learn to be more polite in order to survive lol.
Don't get turned away by Words, all he does is insult people apparently. Do stay.
Finally caught up with replying to everyone!
Have you ever been laid?Don't get turned away by Words, all he does is insult people apparently. Do stay.
Don't get turned away by Words, all he does is insult people apparently. Do stay.Case and point. See how he tries to personally insult people who disagree with him? Just don't take the bait. :wink:
I hardly think you count as everyone. Maybe you could speak to shagbag and see if he'll live up to his name for you? Sure will keep you out of my hair for a while.
Issued warning to words. Please don't harrass other members in the future, thank you. Forum Rules.
I actually don't know what rule and why I broke.
I was contemplating if it was even worth replying to you. I never said I was everyone, how do you assume that? And how am 'in your hair' at all?
I gave you an opportunity to explain your statement why you thought socionics was "useless", and you replied with "stay out of it and you'll be fine". I'm sorry if you think I'm 'in your hair', but saying that socionics is too subjective and useless on a socionics forum is everyone's business!
Just thought you should know I reported you. I hope you get a suspension or ban to cool off. I reported your 3 posts for:
1) Asking if Maritsa is gay.
2) Trolling/harassing Shagbag the Wizard, getting on his case for anything he says.
3) Asking if I have ever been laid.
All these things violate the Forum Rules posted by Jxrtes, which clearly state:
"- don't insult, harass, flame, abuse, bully or troll members"
You are in clear violation of the rules. You have been insulting, harassed several members, and trolled people, all on this one thread. You are deserving of a suspension/ban.
More importantly than a suspension/ban from an internet forum, I hope you learn to have some respect when talking with people.
Have a good night.
Thank you for your response.
I asked you to keep your nose out of my conversation with shag. You didn't but somehow thought it was ok to harass me over it.
I asked Maritsa if she's gay because she was coming out with a bunch of lovely dovey feelings. It's a joke it's not harrassment.Just thought you should know I reported you. I hope you get a suspension or ban to cool off. I reported your 3 posts for:
1) Asking if Maritsa is gay.
Anything he says? I just answered some things directed at me.2) Trolling/harassing Shagbag the Wizard, getting on his case for anything he says.Then you violate the forum rules yourself by continuing to harass me and make comments on my person, which is what I responded to. Do it to me and I'll do it back.3) Asking if I have ever been laid.
[/quote]All these things violate the Forum Rules posted by Jxrtes, which clearly state:
"- don't insult, harass,
You are in clear violation of the rules. You have been insulting, harassed several members, and trolled people, all on this one thread. You are deserving of a suspension/ban.
More importantly than a suspension/ban from an internet forum, I hope you learn to have some respect when talking with people.
Have a good night.[/QUOTE]
Patronizing bastard. Pass judgement on someone you actually know.
So was DA trolling when she stated that absurd is not LSE. Give it a break.
See my above post for the rest.
Last edited by Words; 10-15-2010 at 03:48 AM.
Words reminds me of Cyclops.
This is an open forum and anyone is free to jump into conversations and discussions, barring that they're not breaking any forum rules.
A joke can still be harassmentI asked Maritsa if she's gay because she was coming out with a bunch of lovely dovey feelings. It's a joke it's not harrassment.
I have read through the thread and I'm unsure of what you're referring to. If you felt that you were being harassed it's better to send a report so that the mods can look it over and handle it constructively; or you can PM it to me or another ModAnything he says? I just answered some things directed at me.Then you violate the forum rules yourself by continuing to harass me and make comments on my person, which is what I responded to. Do it to me and I'll do it back.
This is uncalled for, and you have already been warned about this by jxrtes. The next time I see you make a character attack I'm giving you an infractionPatronizing bastard. Pass judgement on someone you actually know.
I agree with you. If anyone wants to make authoritative statements against a persons type it should be taken to the "What's My Type?" section.
Making personal suppositions such as "I think" or "In my opinion" is acceptable, as long as they're no character attacks made in doing so
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
Once again I repeat........God, I love LSEs!
Thanks MD, I feel somehow exonerated, lol.
Self-analysis time:
Wow, I seem to get a real boost when someone else takes it upon themself to stand up for me. It makes me feel like I'm being "taken care of", a curiously thrilling sensation.
EII - Ne
5w6 sp/so/sx
OK then, i'll try to conform to what's required and i'll start a fresh.
So i'll re-answer one of your posts:
What is the practical use you've found, I sure would be interested if you share. I think that most LSEs aren't interested in socionics.
I think there's too many things to list that affect people. In my experience, socionics can present the impression of explaining everything in life, but in reality i've found it's predictive ability is sporadic, so I have it in my mind to a certain degree, however, I also find that removing it from my mind can often be useful and just to interact with people as they are, and live of my experiences and instinct. However, if i'm not getting on with someone, socionics can be a comfort to explain why, of course maybe it's nothing to do with socionics but it's a comfort blanket.Anyway, regarding your example. Why would two people, compatible through socionics, disagree; or why would two people who are incompatible get along? I believe socionics comes into play when you personally communicate with someone on a neutral level. Obviously if someone has bad breath, you are already predisposed to not liking them, or if you're fighting over the same girl, etc. That doesn't mean all of socionics is subjective or false, just because it's possible to not like someone you're compatible with.
Going back to initial point, you may find this interesting if you haven't already found it:
The Socionist: My Personal Typology
Here Rick De Long talks about other methods he uses for typing..identifying people alongside socionics.
My own opinion is that there can be millions of typologies but nothing can explain the completeness of a person, unfortunately they are just too complicated, or perhaps that's not unfortunate.
Eh, i've seen people into the weirdest things. Another example is gender. Although I would like to be able to treat both sexes equally, my experience with male and female colleagues is that they handle things differently, and I generally need to adapt my approach.In regards to your example of two incompatible people working together maturely on the same job. Yes, of course it's possible. But I would ask, how closely do they have to work together? Is it a job where they have to communicate a lot, and collaborate to come to decisions? Or can they each work independently? Even if they put in the effort to get along, are their energy levels lower after working with each other? Does it take so much energy out of them each time? What about the long-run? How many weeks/months/years can someone take of an energy-draining relationship, before one of them just quits the job?
Yes that's true, although i've seen mirrors and identicals compete, and i've seen jobs which you could say have a high T leaning and if for instance you as an ESTj may find that another T type (say INTp or INTj) is more useful to getting the job done and the money earned than say, a dual, who perhaps would complete the other aspects of your life.Like I said, I find a very practical use for socionics. Especially with your example of work, people quit their jobs all the time because they can't stand their coworkers or bosses. Of course it's possible to be professional regardless. But sometimes there's that tension, when trying to work and collaborate with someone, who simply sees the world differently than you. So, conversely, just because it's possible for two incompatible people to agree at work, doesn't mean that all LSEs think socionics is subjective bull. Like I mentioned, I would look at their energy levels and mood before and after the interaction, to see immediate results.
Well, I mentioned one before, which was Expat (who as I understand it is regarded as an experienced socionist) typing David Cameron as EIE and Ganin typing him as SLI. You could have a look at Ganins list, Renins list and Ricks list, you'll find some disagreements, eg Chris Langan, Ganin gives him ESFP, Rick gives him ISTj. Some of Ashura's initial typings have been challenged due to an 'ENTp' bias.Can you give an example of where experienced socionists disagree on a person's type? I would say the vast majority of people on this forum are still amateurs. I believe experienced socionists (socionicists?) should agree on a person's type if they are given ample examples of a person's behavior, can see from video or real life, or how a person communicates and acts. I believe that because I believe functions manifest themselves in specific behaviors and nuances, which can be picked up by the trained eye.
I guess the overall point is that for socionics, to reach a universal consensus isn't particularly possible, as all the means of testing so far involve subjectivity, eg from the interviewee or the interviewer. Compare to for instance medicine, you do a scan on someone or a blood test and it shows cancer, yes it can be wrong if someone makes a mistake in the test down to basic human error, but objectively you can look at the results and you can objectively say, yes that person has XYZ. Until it's possible...if ever to define type with an actual objective means then we have to question its validity.
You may also be interested that I previously posted an actual scientific study on MBTI dichotomies, and it's conclusion was that bipolarity didn't exist.
Now, moving on, I would like to take this opportunity to apologise to you, Shagbag and Maritsa and anyone else on this thread. I hope you'll find my current response much more satisfactory and i'll try to continue that. To explain somewhat: I get frustrated at times with what I perceive as illogical or unfair responses, so i'll give curt responses, which is my issue. Let us all move on and discuss things as adults and equals.
Last edited by Words; 10-15-2010 at 09:28 AM.
Naturally, apology accepted.
Appreciate the honesty / humility.
Understood.I get frustrated at times with what I perceive as illogical or unfair responses
Maybe keep in mind that EIIs sometimes struggle to explain things in exact technical detail due to weaker Te/Ti. We very seldom are trying to be deliberately rude or dismissive, so apologies if it ever came across that way.
Sounds great.Let us all move on and discuss things as adults and equals.
EII - Ne
5w6 sp/so/sx
How's that for a mirror moment?
We mustnt forget that SLIs have Fe-POLR. Their expression of feelings might come across more crass than they intended.
Maybe a socionics-based provision of a being eligible for an extra warning or two should be put in place for all Fe-POLRs before they progress to a more serious punishment?
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
SLE have Te demonstrative and SLI have Te creative those make the three somewhat Te look a likes.i think his post in this thread describing how he came to the forum illustrates Si as described by Augusta ("an object's internal state we view as the relationship between events that cause each other"). Si creatives are known for describing the details of how things happened in sequence.
thought you may be interested in this, as well.
Why? Are you a woman?
Ps. Calm down....ommmmm zen meditative mode, nice and calm (don't aggravate yourself over nonsense).
LOL, close your eyes and look into your heart, if you then don't find me to be your dual then perhaps you aren't looking at the right things.Lol. I don't mean to offend you, since you seem really nice (I agree with your mom!
EIIs are described as very understanding with people, and they love to help. That doesn't mean you can't also be very understanding and helpful Maritsa! I know it can be very hard to change your self-image, but I urge you to consider another type. Or if you're not too offended, justify why you think you're EII. Why do you think you're much more outgoing than the average EII?
I don't understand why you would ask if she's gay. I read her post again, and nothing even hints on it. Words, mind if I ask how old are you? You seem to love provoking everyone.
Lol I guess a lot of people disagree with you Maritsa?
PS. Also, please spend LOTS of time learning the functions as described by socionics in the russian sites and apply them to evaluating people and not by "experience" because if you're "experiencing" the wrong types and associating them to be "EII" then you may not be painting the picture of your dual. (The above sentence is an example of Ti role and an example of how it manifests in me, an EII). I'm basically saying, take Ti ( a rule that has been established previously) and apply it, which of course you don't do because you ignore Ti, but that I do often because I have Ti role. So I stick with rules, most driven by society, and which I value as a part of my value system of integrity and honesty, and I use it as my role functions.
I'll help you see the connections and patterns (called activating your Ne-hence your Ne activation and my Ne creative); if you want it.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-16-2010 at 04:01 AM.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I have found a way to test Socionics and I have so far gotten consistent results with Morphology and my test.
You're welcome to read about it when I've attained enough funding to test it on a big scale and publish the results in a journal.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Very serious question.
Who will fund it?
This side of Russia, who would fund Socionics?
Reply With Quote
