Ni Eyes Discussion - Gilly's Type

[ArchonAlarion]

Just by your contextualized view of the types though. Not according to the theory. Because Ep temperament has nothing to do with that, according to how Ep functions are defined.

Your behavior is not Ej. Not in the slightest.

Its all wild, sporadic, haphazard. You fit Ep quite well actually.

Right, it's all about your subjective impressions. No real analysis, though.

In that example, sure

No, it's NOT about how you feel towards people. Not at ALL. It's about how clear communication is. NOT whether you LIKE them or not. FUCK.

I find this turning out to be an amusing cliche.

When someone yells and raves about an issue and then eventually someone turns back years later with "You never cared about that issue."

I know its not about how much you like them. But how you feel about them is relevent. For instance, there is a gap in communication with Beta NF's that I have, which makes me feel a certain way about them

Actually everything does. Even my interest in Socionics.

No no no. Let me elaborate.

Your worldview (gathered from your text and behavior) does not reflect any interest in an overarching symbolic context. Your overarching view of the world is tangibly based.

Prediction, memes, yes. Day dreaming, imagination, not so much.

No. "Memes" are an Alpha conception and this is a good example of your Si valuing.

You might be thinking to yourself "But hey, memes are a dynamic abstract thing right? Shouldn't that be Ni related?"

Memetics takes something intangible spreading culture and analogizes it to genetics in an organism. This is classic Ne seeing systems as applicable to one another/corellated/connected. The society becomes an organism. That's Si stuff. Its not symbolic or metaphoric in anyway. Its the musings of an Ne-er.

"Actually he lives in a mythological world, where men, animals, locomotives, houses, rivers, and mountains appear either as benevolent deities or as malevolent demons."
- Jung, Psychological Types.

Si connects processes together and sees them as a summation. Society becomes a living breathing organism, as does the earth, and as does the universe.

Si is Involved, Ni is abstract. That means that Si refers to and deals with specifics, particulars; Ni refers to and deals with abstractions. Language is an abstraction, just so you know; the word "dog" is not a dog. That's what "abstract" means. Explaining things in language is an abstract process; abstract doesn't mean unnecessarily vague or obscurantist, like Nick seems to believe.

This involved/abstract dichotomy is contrived and obnoxious.

Being an NT I'd expect you to write abstractly like myself. And if you were to expound in an Si way I'd expect your language to be more involved.

The involved/abstract dichotomy is about language. Just because you use concrete words to describe Si, that doesn't mean Si suddenly becomes unimaginative, petty horseshit. The involved language would detail the unfolding environment.

In terms of the internal process that GIVES that information, yes. But that DOESN'T mean that the rational thought process can't be elucidated in language.

It will be elucidated in language you do not use.

Sorry Gilly, but your writing is not like Nietzche, Strrrng, Jung, or BnD.

Well it's a good thing I don't give a shit about the aesthetics and focus on pushing the quest forward, seeing what will happen instead of focusing on the particulars, because otherwise we'd never get anywhere I provide the Se for the whole fucking group.

Let me ask you this, why do you play DnD, Gilly? Be honest with yourself.

I know, and it's pathetic, because you think people who can actually explain what they think are just being boring and concrete, when we're actually just more intelligent and skilled at explaining how we think. When Nick talks about these abstractions, the only difference is that he isn't willing to sacrifice broad application and intepretability in favor of clarity. If anything, it's because I value Te more and am stronger in it than either of you

I don't think being concrete is boring. It could be, I guess... but I never said this.

and that Te comment is bullshit lol.

Yeah you are. You both rant about your vague impressions that are useless as long as you pretend to know what you're talking about and act like they are infallible instead of trying to reframe your perspective in a useful theory. That's a similarity that I relate to TiSe valuing and NiFe ego.

Is Steve IEI? He's pretty impressionistic. I don't mind of course because there is extremely easy communication between us and I get what he's saying.

Alot of this is coming across as projection, Gilly. I wish I was infallible, but I doubt I am from my experience.

Its not like I don't consider what you say, I just disagree. I mean, if you think I'm wrong and I don't than you might believe I'm being stubborn. Now maybe I am, but you can't know that. Maybe I'm actually wrong, but think I'm being absolutely logical. Or maybe I'm right, but am actually irrationally stubborn. Its not fair to project motivations on me like that.

This is what I know about my version of socionics:
Its logical to me. I would not stick to a theory if I knew it was wrong. I've learned that its better to admit your mistakes sooner than later (for instance when i first came here)
I have at times been vague partly due to laziness partly due to socionics being a currently impressionistic theory. You may think its nice and easy and ready to ship off, but I don't. Doesn't mean I'm wrong about the progress of the typology, just unhelpful as of now.
I don't give out all of my theories and ideas on the forum (where you'd see them) partly due to laziness and partly due to fear of being harrassed even more then I already am. I do have ceratin things in the works however, which you can disbelieve and scoff haughtily at.



@Redbaron: I'm sure it is and I also do not find it appealing. Maybe a fun person to hang around, but not my dual.

[redbaron]

@Redbaron: I'm sure it is and I also do not find it appealing. Maybe a fun person to hang around, but not my dual.

MY DUAL.

[ArchonAlarion]

MY DUAL.

lol yes I know you think its your dual! I'm just reiterating that I don't possibly see how its my dual.

[Gilly]

Your behavior is not Ej. Not in the slightest.

Its all wild, sporadic, haphazard. You fit Ep quite well actually.

But see, if you knew what the functions REALLY WERE, and weren't just deferring to jungian/MBTI maxims, you would know that "EP temperament" does not mean sporadic or haphazard behavior. Is 1981Slater haphazard and sporadic? No. He seems like a pretty stable guy. And he's much different from me.

I know its not about how much you like them. But how you feel about them is relevent. For instance, there is a gap in communication with Beta NF's that I have, which makes me feel a certain way about them

No, the way you FEEL about them is irrelevant. Your FEELINGS mean NOTHING in the context of this theory. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR FUCKING HEAD. LEARN TO FUCKING READ YOU DRIVELING IDIOT.

No no no. Let me elaborate.

Your worldview (gathered from your text and behavior) does not reflect any interest in an overarching symbolic context. Your overarching view of the world is tangibly based.

What makes you think you know this? Give me an example. Show me why you think this. I mean, you're wrong, believe it or not; my interests and worldview ARE geared towards an overarching symbolic context. How do you think I tie philosophy, psychology, mathematics, physics, poetry, and novel writing together in my little world where everything makes sense?

But I want to see what you think is Si and Ni, so I can make you look like a total idiot by ACTUALLY explaining this using the information element definitions.

No. "Memes" are an Alpha conception and this is a good example of your Si valuing.

Did I say I was interested in or particularly aware of memes? No.

You might be thinking to yourself "But hey, memes are a dynamic abstract thing right? Shouldn't that be Ni related?"

Memetics takes something intangible spreading culture and analogizes it to genetics in an organism. This is classic Ne seeing systems as applicable to one another/corellated/connected. The society becomes an organism. That's Si stuff. Its not symbolic or metaphoric in anyway. Its the musings of an Ne-er.

blah blah blah blah. Nothing to do with IM definitions.

"Actually he lives in a mythological world, where men, animals, locomotives, houses, rivers, and mountains appear either as benevolent deities or as malevolent demons."
- Jung, Psychological Types.

WOW WAY TO QUOTE ALMOST ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT SHIT.

Jung is irrelevant to Socionics. Get it straight. Socionics is Socionics.

Si connects processes together and sees them as a summation. Society becomes a living breathing organism, as does the earth, and as does the universe.

What's your point?

This involved/abstract dichotomy is contrived and obnoxious.

Actually it's part of the theory you idiot.

Being an NT I'd expect you to write abstractly like myself. And if you were to expound in an Si way I'd expect your language to be more involved.

The involved/abstract dichotomy is about language. Just because you use concrete words to describe Si, that doesn't mean Si suddenly becomes unimaginative, petty horseshit. The involved language would detail the unfolding environment.

Blah blah blah, more ejaculation. You're still avoiding my main arguments, and vastly misrepresenting the elements.



It will be elucidated in language you do not use.

Sorry Gilly, but your writing is not like Nietzche, Strrrng, Jung, or BnD.

Maybe I should post some of my poetry.

Let me ask you this, why do you play DnD, Gilly? Be honest with yourself.

Because it's fun. Because I like having an excuse to do something imaginative and creative with people from the forum. It doesn't stimulate the higher levels of my imagination, but it's a fun little jog around the block.

Is Steve IEI? He's pretty impressionistic. I don't mind of course because there is extremely easy communication between us and I get what he's saying.

I don't care what type steve is; you're both idiots when you act like impressions dictate the theory.

Alot of this is coming across as projection, Gilly.

Nice try, idiot.

Its not like I don't consider what you say, I just disagree. I mean, if you think I'm wrong and I don't than you might believe I'm being stubborn. Now maybe I am, but you can't know that. Maybe I'm actually wrong, but think I'm being absolutely logical. Or maybe I'm right, but am actually irrationally stubborn. Its not fair to project motivations on me like that.

I'm not projecting. I'm telling it like I see it. I think you're an idiot who has been conned into thinking that his vague impressions dictate personality types that are logically systematized.

What makes someone a type is NOT how YOU react to them; at best that is a hint. What dictates a type is the set of functions that best exlpains someone's methods of thinking and motivations.

I have at times been vague partly due to laziness partly due to socionics being a currently impressionistic theory. You may think its nice and easy and ready to ship off, but I don't. Doesn't mean I'm wrong about the progress of the typology, just unhelpful as of now.
I don't give out all of my theories and ideas on the forum (where you'd see them) partly due to laziness and partly due to fear of being harrassed even more then I already am. I do have ceratin things in the works however, which you can disbelieve and scoff haughtily at.

Let's talk about ******.

****** is an indisputable EIE, right?

Ok, what did ****** do? ****** essentially propogated the meme of German superiority to the people of Germany by talking about their lineage, their history, the way Germany came to be as it has come to be. He didn't refer to some insanely abstract mythos; he talked about the series of events that had led Germany to be as it was to inspire the imagination the German people. He helped them to feel like an "organic whole" of people, just like in your Si description, by uniting them based on their history of humiliation and shared desire to be a great and powerful nation.

Was this just some trick to pwn German Alphas and hypnotize them into becoming his puppets? NO! He didn't hack their minds with some abstract jibber jabber; he manipulated them by appealing to their aspirations, their dreams of how Germany could be, of how it was "destined" to be, how they were justified in pursuing these goals because they had been treated unjustly. He put in people's minds the picture of Germany as a successful, powerful nation, that ruled the world. That's pretty concrete, right? Ruling the world? But it's Ni! It's his vision, based on the causal series of events that led Germany to become as it was, its history of greatness. He accomplished this by projecting the attitude of a confident, emotional leader who was empassioned to acheive his goals and bring Germany to power. There's nothing abstract or mystical about it. It's easily explainable. So it must not be Ni, right? Fuck, ****** was a sociopathic ESE, because he manipulated the German people into seeing a concrete vision of how their nation should be! Right?

NO. He was a fucking EIE to the max. He used ardent emotionalism, rhetoric, and appeals of national unity to appeal to the German nation. Lots of parallels to your Si description, and yet he was an Si PoLR. Do you see what I'm getting at here?

If you have a better explanation, let's hear it.

[Lotus]

I wish I was an octopus.

[Gilly]

Yeah, well, I wish I was a pterodactyl, but we can't always get what we want.

[Gilly]

Jesus, if aliens were like octopi, we wouldn't stand a fucking chance. They could be like, super ninjas. I mean, imagine if your arms had separate neurons, and eyes, like a bunch of independent people working together in terms of precision and reaction time, but still controlled by the same brain...that would be fucking insane.

[717495]

Octopi are retards. If you wish you were retarded, things can be arranged.

[Creepy-bg]

archon's body + gilly's spazziness = Tom Green