I think you've actually achieved your goal of lowering the bar for what is considered ok, and in the process adam strange seems to be the real winner. so don't feel like your point hasn't been well taken, which is to say people are free to decide for themselves what is proper. I just hope the next round of "ban impoliteness" talk integrates this well plead lesson
Last edited by Bertrand; 07-12-2018 at 03:03 PM.
Things in here got "messed up" after ashlesha's comment, in fact before of it this thread had received some isolated contribution and most of us had ignored it, I guess we were all thinking "oh well it's Sperma... what would you expect?".
The fact that to a girl this kind of thread comes off as... I don't even know how to call it, as I don't really get what ashlesha was trying to defend, well, that was inappropriate to me, because as she was criticizing some people for stating the obvious with "yeah we all get it's not appropriate, so what? I've seen worse", I can say that it is as obvious to all that this was a Sperma's thread, and we know the guy, reason why most people had let it go unnoticed... and so again, to see that at the first negative comments someone comes up wonderign what's wrong... well, it's pretty much nonsense.
Apart from these petty dynamics, this thread is actually reflecting what the US came to be in the last couple of years, maybe that's why some people see nothing wrong in this, they're used to this as it's actually the norm established by the most important president in this world... *cough
sorry for going against the current I guess, salmons for president the next time.
(and ty waspy <3)
its just typical "no one tells me how to feel about my relationships except me!" type stuff, that if in the process works to adjust the community standard downward, so be it. the bottom line is there's a lid for every pot: miscreant and enabler, etc etc.. whose definition of what seems to be relative, all I can do is wish the happy couple well. it is a mistake to rush to someone's defense on the assumption the "bad behavior" isn't precisely what they want if the person is capable of speaking for themselves, they may even welcome it, since it enables them an opportunity to put that person in their debt and show their strong side. in other words, this is precisely the kind of working environment where certain couples find themselves, and good for them. why interfere? it doesn't even matter. if there's a lesson for all it is something like this. if sperm wants to sing his birdsong, ignore it and let it attract the right people, since to develop it into a brewhaha just makes the interloper the bad guy and generates precisely the desired scenario, where a self made victim and rescuer can emerge and inflate their trivial flritation into a meaningful interaction at the expense of the presumably well intentioned community. this is like human instinct unfolding before us
the forum´s trump babe is lungs because Donalds just loves a good challenge
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
For me at least, I'm only posting here now because I've seen this place get so much traffic. I mean, I clicked on the thread initially but after reading the content in the OP I decided it was a boring thread... But the whole thing got blown up now, so I may as well add my two cents.Originally Posted by ooo
I didn't find the humor funny at all, but I didn't find it offensive for the same reasons; it felt really forced and honestly kind of like it was trying too hard to be edgy or offend people. I think it was executed in an unfunny and very not subtle way; that shit appeals to some people but whatever, it doesn't get any reaction out of me (If someone came in here acting like this was /pol/ it'd be a different story though). No comment on the responses specifically, but if a number of people feel discomfort from these types of threads, or posts, or whatever medium people are saying this kinda stuff in, then the people making them should probably take the hint.
The attitude and humor on these forums anyway feels tryhard edgy to me in general, which obviously as a subject comes down to individual discretion. This thread looks like there's a resistance to it though, in any event.
Noone is forcing anyone to read anything. If someone finds a poster's threads or comments offensive they should probably not read them.
where is free speech if we can't manifest our dissent tho, it can't just be "i can say wtv i want and u gotta shut up". that's not free speech that's controlled monologue, propaganda, go guess.
I never said people couldn't disagree.
What are even talking about?
I'm simply responding to @Mio Q who seemed to be saying that if someone posts things that others consider "offensive" the onus is on that person to stop saying those things. I disagree with this, precisely because it limits free speech. I'm saying that if the problem is that people feel offended it is up to those people to just not read the things from users they find offensive. It's that simple.
I'm not even sure what you're talking about, given the context.
I'd personally just ignore something I found offensive on a board like this, so anecdotally I'm with you on that, but at the same time nobody should say or do something explicitly and intentionally controversial and not expect to get shit from it. The idea of having to censor oneself after saying something is obviously a big annoyance, but it would help for that person to know their general environment too.
I completely agree with this.
I'm not saying that intentionally saying things that others consider offensive is constructive, wise, smart or any of those things; but people should be free to do it, and others free to ignore it. If the provocation gets out of hand the moderation can intervene but on this particular board that's not very likely to happen, so we are basically left to police ourselves. Not that I think the moderation should censor views that are controversial (ought statement) but they always can (is statement). Nevertheless if it degenerates into threats violence against individuals or groups, in that case I support censoring it.
Well free speech means you can say whatever the hell you want, but it also means that people can respond to you with whatever the hell they want, and I'd say that the optimal response to people telling someone to stop talking shit is for them to stop talking shit. They can continue talking shit if they want, but they shouldn't expect the way people react to them to change either.
Some people welcome this, and actively seek it out, but I'd imagine most don't.
EDIT: Oops our responses got jumbled. Glad we're on the same page now though.
For some reason, you're completely leaving out the "free to criticize it".
yeah the whole point of free speech is that you can read and respond however you want (verbally) and so can the other guy. meaning people are free to be outraged and argue and insult eachother back and forth forever. this whole "if you don't like it don't read it" does no real work since it equally applies to both sides and ultimately changes nothing. it might be good advice on a certain level for maintaining one's own sanity though, since sometimes its enough to simply walk away and not trouble yourself with someone else's stupidity. not only that but what constitutes stupidity is often more nuanced than what we can even appreciate in the moment anyway. for example sperm's strategy seems to be paying off on some level. at the very least he's "raised awareness"--this entire thread is in some sense an acknowledgement that his strategy works toward what he's said he's trying to achieve. thus there's no real "fix", you just let it ride or get your hands dirty, because the issue goes deeper than some rule or policy, it has to do with the irreducibly hazardous nature of human communication itself
@ooo to me the forum as a whole has been what I am to wasp in this thread ie condemning sperma while throwing hatred at me when I've expressed discomfort. (And I'm not throwing hatred at wasp.) I think my posts make more sense in that context. They were aimed at the forum at large which piled on me with insults when I was uncomfortable but isn't ok with sperma. I think I'm allowed to have a reaction to that as much as wasp is and that's why it was not a "defense," as I said, but for some reason you're not understanding, maybe this helps.
And @Bertrand I think you have the background knowledge to understand this. Your analysis of this is completely off base.
Last edited by ashlesha; 07-12-2018 at 05:42 PM.
This post bothers me, because it feels like an ad hominem attack thinly veiled as criticism of my thoughts.
In any case, I don't know why that bothers you so much. My post wasn't meant as the bible on how to do free speech. If you're really not implying anything with this, than maybe write your own post on how you think you can conceive of free speech better than I can.
The point is, "If you don't like it, then don't read it!" is a kind of criticism. You obviously didn't like some post or how some people behaved, so you criticized it. But then that would obviously not be taking your own advice, because if you don't like something, then you should just ignore it and shut up.
So what's even the point of saying anything? What's the point of posting in this thread? Why don't you just ignore anything that you don't like? Should we all just shut up and not criticize anything that we find distasteful?
Well maybe people want to criticize things that they find distasteful or wrong or whatever. I think that communication is a 2-way street, and I think just ignoring each other and everything that we don't like is a cynical approach. I actually wonder how this sort of thing affect us in the digital age of the Internet, where we actually are free to just ignore whomever and whatever that we don't like. But then I think, that would not help us develop proper conflict-resolution skills, or even help us gain different perspectives.
Socratic method is only useful when parties are willing to debate. It is fruitless when one or both are not open minded enough to debate. Yes, that is cynical, but a little cynicism never killed anyone.
I also don't think you're reading my post(s) correctly. I'm not saying people shouldn't criticize or whatever. They can, and should be free too, and be free to decide in which circumstance their criticism will prove constructive and in which cases it won't.
All I was initially saying was that since people are free to ignore something on the internet, there is no need to censor something that is not a direct threat. But Mio Q, who I was responding to, clarified his/her position and that was that. Not sure what you're trying to prove here by adding to it.
So Unicorns and Trannies are a good thing after Trump babe?
I'm not expecting an explanation here bc I know this is all subjective, I'm just going to say what I actually think, to show there is more than one opinion... so, I honestly don't get it. It's obviously just jokes* by OP. And why take them seriously when it's incredibly obvious they are just jokes. Let alone get offended by jokes that are not malicious or directed at anyone personally. Even if they are crude.
*: even if they are not PC.
Last edited by Myst; 07-12-2018 at 08:48 PM.
What is it supposed to come off as to "a girl"? Offensive, objectifying? I'm female too. I personally don't see a problem. Not trying to invalidate the feelings of others ofc. Just don't really relate to feeling offended or feeling objectified or anything like that.
What things are degrading to you in the questions? I'm a woman btw. And I think anyone who thinks the OP expected anyone to post a picture like that is who's in lalala land
Well, I find the questions themselves degrading for example getting points for being white means non-white women are devalued. Stuff like that, where the women are evaluated based on the OP's criteria which comes off demeaning to me, because it gives me the impression some people are devalued based on his criteria.
But it doesn't matter. The OP was joking and like I said, I myself found this hilarious due to its outlandishness.
Yeah? Well he's posted crazier stuff around here and I find it hard to tell at this point what is bait, what is sincere, and what is goes under "social experiments" since sometimes he actually is serious about what he posts.And I think anyone who thinks the OP expected anyone to post a picture like that is who's in lalala land
I'll say it again btw: I am not against the OP, I do find some of his opinions expressed on here outlandish, such as the idea America should bomb Chinese cities to prevent economic competition lol, but I do appreciate his presence as it can be good to have someone express opinions that aren't your everyday run of the mill stuff.
yeah I guess I'm not understanding, and this thread has brought up too many off topic reactions tbh. if we were to stick at the matter at hand I'd say that addressing this thread as stupid is as obvious as saying that there are worse things around, and you are free to choose what to prefer and where to stick, sure. you're right as this is kind of "more honest" (although I'd call it differently) than the masked bonton threads around that aim at the same thing, and that it's as obvious as timber's first comment: we all aim at personal subjective targets, with our own given biases all the time... yeah so what?, stating the obvious again and again ty, although actually our preferences are dictated by society on a great extent, as this thread shows, so it's up to us to set the level.
I understand that to you all of this is somewhat rude as for anyone else, ok, but then I still don't understand what of this bothers when pointed out? I feel for what you've been through and that's probably what made u make that comment, ok, but it doesn't change the matter at hand... or does it? I've seen a nice movie about smth not that different "The Insult", a pretty petty incident becomes a huge thing because of all a million other reasons... so amazing.
Anyway, yeah, let me state the obvious to me too, can I? let me be disgusted by the shit when I see it. And sorry ash for bringing up your case, but yeah you sparkled the reactions, to me, when you felt like questioning what was wrong with it. And I'm sorry to dare to say that at least in a personal conflict one's rude point of view can be justified, but in here it becomes just plain vulgar.... but well, that's Trump's agenda after all.. maybe you're just more used to this?
@Avebury, free speech is a joke. In history and in practice. Lol. Also, Spermatozoa is just doing Trump propaganda, lolol. So who's making free speech in here? I think it's very naive to empty the words of their content/context, to expect that they don't have a meaning attached to them, to think they're innocuous, always free. Words talk, like your actions. And it's problematic when one's words don't match their actions.
@Myst, vulgar, mysoginist, racist, but that should be obvious to a guy too.
Even lol@the attempt of "you've been fooled" by Sperma, as if he didn't actually mean what is displayed in here. smh
I do not agree, you know?
I'm not quite sure what the world would look like without the concept of free speech being a right, but we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
Just because a right is not always respected or not respected at all places at all times does not make it a joke in practice.
He's not doing Trump's propaganda, and if even if he was, propaganda is protected under free speech, in fact pretty much everything is propaganda from advertisements for soup to hastags to political slogans, even ones that support stuff you agree with. Of course the beauty of free speech, is that we are free to criticize that propaganda, or do our own counter-propaganda, and the beauty of freedom that we are free to turn it off.Also, Spermatozoa is just doing Trump propaganda, lolol. So who's making free speech in here? I think it's very naive to empty the words of their content/context, to expect that they don't have a meaning attached to them, to think they're innocuous, always free. Words talk, like your actions. And it's problematic when one's words don't match their actions.
Not sure what you mean by the rest of this though.
Last edited by Ave; 07-12-2018 at 09:34 PM. Reason: typo
yeah I don't agree, because of what my comment said after that. You don't say "hey they're killing someone in front of me, I just close my eyes coz they can do wtv they want, it doesn't touch me, not my business", yet you can do the same with words so yeah, not ok to me.
Duuuuuuuude what the hell are you talking about?!
Your posts are incoherent and arguing with you is driving me nuts.
if you take a dive in shallow water you might smash your nose into the pool floor *deep thoughts*
Cela ne calcule pas.
EDIT @Avebury you bet me to it. Hail Ne PoLR!
What if the pool has an elastic bottom, and when you hit it you spring right back up and do a somersault? *dirty thoughts*
well duuude, I don't agree with free speech for many reasons, if that makes me incoherent then call me one. call me a nazi but i think some ideas are dangerous and must be avoided or extirped or they spread like a disease... coz again, if we all get used to see bad as acceptable, that's what we'll become, and that's not just actions, it's not that only killing and stealing are condemnable, or showing u my peepee in public that's inappropriate, words work alike. now it's funny coz u've been between the first people to comment properly on this thread, but now it became more ok... and nothing I just liked your nazi part more.
Like what, and how?
Maybe this thread is under assault by the fat acceptance movement.What things are degrading to you in the questions? I'm a woman btw. And I think anyone who thinks the OP expected anyone to post a picture like that is who's in lalala land
well duuude, I don't agree with free speech for many reasons, if that makes me incoherent then call me one. call me a nazi but i think some ideas are dangerous and must be avoided or extirped or they spread like a disease... coz again, if we all get used to see bad as acceptable, that's what we'll become, and that's not just actions, it's not that only killing and stealing are condemnable, or showing u my peepee in public that's inappropriate, words work alike. now it's funny coz u've been between the first people to comment properly on this thread, but now it became more ok... and nothing I just liked your nazi part more.
(Sorry, just having fun with this at this point)
I actually got her idea tbh.
Yeah, though the thing is, IMO, you can't restrict free speech too much, only for very obviously and universally bad things. I.e. hate speech is of course not allowed by the law in many countries. Anything where it can actually have a real consequence with enough of a likelihood is where this would apply. I would not go past this, and I would allow the rest even if it seems offensive to some people, because what's offensive is often very subjectively judged and only bothers relatively few people - while people do have to take responsibility for their own emotions when it's just emotions and not about real tangible consequences that need to be taken care of.
No, non-white women are not actually being devalued. Only in terms of not qualifying as a babe for Trump. If, let's assume, this isn't just a joke, but objective criteria, i.e. this is actually what Trump wants and you want to be a Trump babe (lol wtf scenario is this), there is no point in getting offended. You simply don't qualify for the criteria, go do something to change it or live with it if you can't.
(EDIT: I'm told it's also a satire of Trump supporters and feminists, but again, I don't see that as non-white women being devalued. I can flesh out this one too if you want.)
Stuff like that, where the women are evaluated based on the OP's criteria which comes off demeaning to me, because it gives me the impression some people are devalued based on his criteria.
Ok lolBut it doesn't matter. The OP was joking and like I said, I myself found this hilarious due to its outlandishness.
Yes, he's posted crazier stuff - *drumroll* none of the crazy was real.Yeah? Well he's posted crazier stuff around here and I find it hard to tell at this point what is bait, what is sincere, and what is goes under "social experiments" since sometimes he actually is serious about what he posts.
Sure, I seeI'll say it again btw: I am not against the OP, I do find some of his opinions expressed on here outlandish, such as the idea America should bomb Chinese cities to prevent economic competition lol, but I do appreciate his presence as it can be good to have someone express opinions that aren't your everyday run of the mill stuff.
I know that it contained racist and vulgar/crude stuff... I just don't get the BIG reactions. It's as if people never hear racist jokes or vulgar stuff elsewhere.
And no, I don't think he actually meant it... what seems like that to you? I'm curious if you can flesh this out for me please.
Repeat...
After me...
I refuse...
To be defined...
Or defeated...
Or enslaved...
By a number...
Any longer!
(there now...doesn't that feel better?)
Read on then, in the same post.
I actually agree with what you're saying in the same post. I just don't see why you felt the need to quote me in that context, given you did understand her, it just felt like being extra pedantic for its own sake, so I answered with a meme. I don't feel like debating the OP and its conents any longer btw.
It's just that I've gotten into these debates with ooo and while she isn't mean or anything, I feel she just completely fails at logic. I'm not a mean guy or anything, but it pisses me off since it is done over and over and over again without any kind of desire to appear more coherent, I just lose my patience after debating her for the 500th and getting these vague rants about stuff being "bad".
OK I'm not into debating it either. Why I quoted you, bc I was surprised at the strength of your reaction I guess. Wasn't trying to insinuate that you are a mean person lol. Anyway yeah she sounded perfectly coherent to me even if I may disagree with some of the implementation details for the idea perhaps (?), the idea itself I get fine. Not sure what else I can say here.
well you could ask me to explain in particular instead of just angrily tell me I fail at logic and am incoherent. anyway, when I reread my posts I often notice that I skip some connections and jump from this to that without much explanations, so yeah, that's random but to me it's perfectly logic and I hope people can get it, if I don't my apologize coz I feel like everytime you question what I say you then basically repeat my same concept but without grasping the meaning I was giving to it.. so interesting lol
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