ENFj jobs/careers/occupations: what do EIEs do for a living?

[golden]

Other than fascist dictator, actor, serial killer, and guru, what are some EIE careers?

Some EIEs I know irl do these things . . .

* reporter
* programmer
* songwriter

What else is there?

[Exodus]

Programmer (opsec), singer/songwriter/rapper (I know at least 3 of them), talk show host, lawyer, literature teacher/professor.

[Enters Laughing]

Fields relating to the Humanities in general, such as: Archaeologist, Abecedarian, Bailiff, Bamboozler, Brigand, Color Sergeant, Dandy, Filibuster, Fine Ale Merchant, Fixer, Herald, Legerdmainist, Mountebank, Postmaster, Quizzer, Vicar, Vulcan, Witchfinder General, and Wrangler.

[golden]

Fields relating to the Humanities in general, such as: Archaeologist, Abecedarian, Bailiff, Bamboozler, Brigand, Color Sergeant, Dandy, Filibuster, Fine Ale Merchant, Fixer, Herald, Legerdmainist, Mountebank, Postmaster, Quizzer, Vicar, Vulcan, Witchfinder General, and Wrangler.

These sound absolutely terrible except for archaeologist, which I wanted to be when I was 10, and fine ale merchant, an occupation that has never occurred to me but . . . ale.

[Exodus]

Btw I think Evariste Galois was probably EIE. EIE mathematicians are probably on the rare side though. And I guess he decided he liked being a duelist revolutionary even more

I also knew a Canadian EIE lumberjack/construction worker/other stuff. He mostly did physical hands-on jobs which is not what you might expect from an EIE. He seemed to like it though.

[Enters Laughing]

In terms of Holland Codes, Enterprising-related careers seem highly suitable.

Perhaps also Social and Artistic...although I have found that in practice, for each Holland code, there are professions you might not consider so representative of that code (this may depend on your own perception e.g. of what should fit "Realistic", "Conventional, "Social" etc., and whether you can create your own niche in each profession that is not typical of the role).

[GuavaDrunk]

There exists at least one EIE mathematician, he does research in pure maths (discrete maths), has done so for a good 20-30 years at a prestigious university and has tenure.

[Chae]

Talk show or radio host was a good one, anything talk show related would be cool, where they can be in the limelight.

My suggestion is public speaking/presentation coach. Someone who is a mentor of people who want to learn how to present themselves. EIEs make some of the best orators; that might be in business, in-class, in daily life. Part of that is instilling confidence and charisma, I think that this profession would be greatly fulfilling.

[Chae]

Just anything with a motivational component, I think.

[golden]

Btw I think Evariste Galois was probably EIE. EIE mathematicians are probably on the rare side though. And I guess he decided he liked being a duelist revolutionary even more

I also knew a Canadian EIE lumberjack/construction worker/other stuff. He mostly did physical hands-on jobs which is not what you might expect from an EIE. He seemed to like it though.

I read about Galois and think EIE sounds quite plausible. He also has an expression I associate with EIE in some of his portraits.

Although I don't do purely physical labor (except for around my own house), it's helpful for me if my work has some physical component and/or results in a concrete and well-defined product. That was how I ended up being, first, a pianist, and second, working in book editing, whereas most of my friends chose academia and other pursuits that seem from my pov less oriented toward tangibles. I like proof-in-the-pudding, fixed outcomes.

In terms of Holland Codes, Enterprising-related careers seem highly suitable.

Perhaps also Social and Artistic...although I have found that in practice, for each Holland code, there are professions you might not consider so representative of that code (this may depend on your own perception e.g. of what should fit "Realistic", "Conventional, "Social" etc., and whether you can create your own niche in each profession that is not typical of the role).

I've done Holland stuff before and iirc I was "investigative" + "artistic" followed by "social." "Enterprising" sounds like sales or entrepreneurship to me, perhaps(?), which isn't too much in my wheelhouse, though I can sell things indirectly if I'm passionate about them. "Conventional" was last. Yes, I am posting this thread bc I'm trying to change careers and so it's about me me me.

Talk show or radio host was a good one, anything talk show related would be cool, where they can be in the limelight.

My suggestion is public speaking/presentation coach. Someone who is a mentor of people who want to learn how to present themselves. EIEs make some of the best orators; that might be in business, in-class, in daily life. Part of that is instilling confidence and charisma, I think that this profession would be greatly fulfilling.

Just anything with a motivational component, I think.

Eh. I used to like public speaking but am out of practice and I guess I associate "motivational" with something kind of E3-ish. It doesn't sound meaningful unto itself. I have known one EIE who was very into others' motivational material, one who is a yoga instructor and a bit into self-helpy teaching, and of one who was very influential as a mentor to writers. Oh, and I've dealt with one who is a kind of coachy guru person. So I see some relevance, but only that last one could be seen an over-the-top Tony Robbins type, if that's at all what you have in mind.

[The Exception]

On the Holland test I was ISA = Investigative > Social > Artistic.

Investigative is obvious. I love to learn things interesting to me, to explore them in great depth.

Social is interesting because I care alot about the welfare of people and I want to be doing something useful to better their lives yet, I mostly prefer to work *alone* rather than *with people.* I think what I like is to do some project alone that will end up benefitting others. Also I am greatly interested in the social sciences and psychology which can be studied alone.

Artistic- I like to be unique and original and do things my own way, unconstrained by too many rules. I'm not really the creative sort artistically, though. I don't draw, write poetry, create music, etc. I'm more creative with ideas- putting them together in new ways.

My lower scores were C > E > R.

Conventional- The jobs seem rather boring and mundane to me but I am also good at them. I am good at organizing things, putting them in order. I can follow rules and make sure things are done properly.

Enterprising- I'm not a leader or manager type, but I do like to be influential in a more behind-the-scenes sort of way.

Realistic- I dislike hands-on, manual labor type tasks. I am not mechanically inclined, not good at fixing things that are broken. I don't like working in uncomfortable physical conditions either.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Teacher/professor?

I've always thought EIEs would make good teachers/professors. Sure this might fall under 'guru' but I don't think so. I think you'd make a good teacher to kids Golden, though you might need your dual in there to handle some of the more assholeish ones. I say teacher because EIEs are sensitive to the feelings of others while at the same time they urge and prod others to grow. (and there can still be hands on stuff for you to do)

[Pallas]

Teacher/professor?

I've always thought EIEs would make good teachers/professors. Sure this might fall under 'guru' but I don't think so. I think you'd make a good teacher to kids Golden, though you might need your dual in there to handle some of the more assholeish ones. I say teacher because EIEs are sensitive to the feelings of others while at the same time they urge and prod others to grow. (and there can still be hands on stuff for you to do)

Some people call this type "Mentor", but I would not recommend EIEs to be teachers if you live in America. The American school system is mostly built for SLIs, which is kind of the conflictor type. I mean, any American classroom you can go to tends to be centered on making people specialists (S type), passive and individual learning (introvert), low activity levels sitting at a desk for hours on end doing nothing (Ip), and for pragmatic/careerist purposes only, not learning the trivium or music or whatever for the most part (). There's also a bit of targeting to LSEs (who tend to be more successful on large scales due to Ej temperament and Asking type) with the mantras targeting D-A thinkers, which also in turn makes things even worse for EIEs since they share the same cognition but have and in their superegos so generally can't really become what the system is trying to hammer LSEs into, but don't just avoid the hammering, unlike the other NFs who have other types of cognition.

[Mr inappropriate]

leader of terrorist groups, suicide bombers, ...

[golden]

Teacher/professor?

I've always thought EIEs would make good teachers/professors. Sure this might fall under 'guru' but I don't think so. I think you'd make a good teacher to kids Golden, though you might need your dual in there to handle some of the more assholeish ones. I say teacher because EIEs are sensitive to the feelings of others while at the same time they urge and prod others to grow. (and there can still be hands on stuff for you to do)

I wanted to be a professor way back in the day, but when most of my friends went the academia route, I jumped off the train, and I'm not sorry I did. There aren't enough university positions to go around. I also don't like the political games involved in getting tenure. Nor do I want to write academic prose.

Also, I like to work project to project and find it difficult to deal with work that consists primarily in social transactions. I don't see that there's all that much hands-on stuff to do besides busywork / admin stuff, unless you're teaching first grade and stapling crap on a board, which is meh.

I could not deal with teaching little kids whatsoever. One hour of them is enough for me unless they're my own kids. Although I like teenagers much more and am able to work with them pretty effectively, I still wouldn't want to work in education in the United States because public schools are a disaster, private schools aren't much better, and teachers receive too little respect and are underpaid.

Thanks for your feedback. I really do appreciate it. At least you think I'd be good at something, that's encouraging.

[golden]

leader of terrorist groups, suicide bombers, ...

I hear there are lots of openings for suicide bombers.

[Exodus]

Yeah there do seem to be a ton of EIE teachers, especially in the humanities. I guess it has to do with imparting your passion or interests to other people (-Fe).

[The Exception]

I hear there are lots of openings for suicide bombers.

They keep getting fired.

[summerprincess]

Marketing, medicine, industrial design/artistic careers with a technical side, college professor, "guru"/"influencer", inspirational speaker, actor, make up artist, entrepreneur

[Rebelondeck]

I have found them very good as technologists in forensics laboratories where investigative inventiveness was key. They didn't seem to be as focused on the procedural or safety aspects of the job, but could force themselves to do it. They needed to be kept challenged because when they became bored, their work became sloppy. And, they wrote excellent reports.

a.k.a. I/O

[Computer Loser]

strippers. good at persuasion. dolla dolla billz

[Chae]

strippers. good at persuasion. dolla dolla billz

An EIE will choose many other jobs before this one (when they CAN, the erotic business harbors plenty of people who don't have any other choice it's abominable), it's likely not sophisticated, elevated enough in terms of intuitive pursuit. The only humanitarian, world-revealing thing you can probably learn in this profession is that people who want to see or hire strippers have issues, and that people who strip are at the bottom of social hierarchy, their only worth being their body as a shell. Si PoLR will shy away from that because FeNi deems itself cerebral. Si would be needed for such a physically taxing activity but that'll likely not work out. EIE's HA will drive them toward the top of hierarchy instead If they become strippers, they will climb into whatever luxury league is there.

[Computer Loser]

An EIE will choose many other jobs before this one (when they CAN, the erotic business harbors plenty of people who don't have any other choice it's abominable), it's likely not sophisticated, elevated enough in terms of intuitive pursuit. The only humanitarian, world-revealing thing you can probably learn in this profession is that people who want to see or hire strippers have issues, and that people who strip are at the bottom of social hierarchy, their only worth being their body as a shell. Si PoLR will shy away from that because FeNi deems itself cerebral. Si would be needed for such a physically taxing activity but that'll likely not work out. EIE's HA will drive them toward the top of hierarchy instead If they become strippers, they will climb into whatever luxury league is there.

you sound bitter. sry the profession didn't work out for u lol

those girls are normal girls. they often have other jobs or school or whatever...they're not in sexy princess on a pedestal stripper mode at home on Christmas morning opening presents with their big brother teasing them/fanning their farts in her face.

[Chae]

you sound bitter. sry the profession didn't work out for u lol

those girls are normal girls. they often have other jobs or school or whatever...they're not in sexy princess on a pedestal stripper mode at home on Christmas morning opening presents with their big brother teasing them/fanning their farts in her face.

I saw you editing that so it'll sound less rude and it got worse lmaooo yes yes just go on like that bae just keep digging yourself a grave On a more serious note: C'mon. The point is that EIE + stripper = rather unlikely, function-wise.

[Computer Loser]

I saw you editing that so it'll sound less rude and it got worse lmaooo yes yes just go on like that bae just keep digging yourself a grave On a more serious note: C'mon. The point is that EIE + stripper = rather unlikely, function-wise.

LOL. didn't want to make u cry bae :*

[Chae]

LOL. didn't want to make u cry bae :*

Hmm?

[GuavaDrunk]

The point is that EIE + stripper = rather unlikely, function-wise.

No, afaik it's a job with a lot of emotional management of clients (to enforce your boundaries, to keep them happy nonetheless and get the dolla billz, etc.) and having a good sense of someone's internal mechanisms would be quite an asset. Imo you could do with more reading about the profession.

[Chae]

No, afaik it's a job with a lot of emotional management of clients (to enforce your boundaries, to keep them happy nonetheless and get the dolla billz, etc.) and having a good sense of someone's internal mechanisms would be quite an asset. Imo you could do with more reading about the profession.

Ik, though I attribute all of what you said to ESE. Caregiving suits the profession more than victim, esp because boundary enforcement - strong Se (not necessarily valued), keeping sb happy - Fe WITHOUT Ni because Ni brings the drama, insecurity, musing, third eye stuff, detached advice, mentorship, head in the clouds, being a sage. Beta is far too anti-establishment to dance obediently all year with a Chippendale outfit on, selling their body like a slave UNLESS! They are Sx/So and e7, e3, that range. In that case, mhm. Internal mechanisms as in, psychologically? Si sounds more like it, Si is knowing the internal mechanism of someone else.

[Exodus]

@goldenbane now I am wondering which serial killers you had in mind. Ted Bundy and the Zodiac Killer could very well be EIEs.

[golden]

@goldenbane now I am wondering which serial killers you had in mind. Ted Bundy and the Zodiac Killer could very well be EIEs.

I'm embarrassed to say I had no one specific in mind. "Serial killers = Beta" is an idea that amuses me. And I was making a joke of all the terrible things someone might suggest for EIE to prevent people from making a lot of lame comments.

Bundy is most likely Beta, I think, but he could be SLE. If I had to argue EIE for him, I'd consider the following:

1. His often-used ruse of pretending to be injured to lure women fits with a victim personality.
2. He finally succeeded as a university student studying psychology and worked in a suicide-hotline crisis center and a co-worker found him kind and empathetic.
3. He was sometimes careless vs. meticulous. For example, he was stopped by police and was simply driving around with a lot of his murder equipment (pantyhose, ice pick, rope, handcuffs). I imagine a ST would be more in control of the physical aspects of their murders, but as far as I know Bundy was pretty full of himself and daring, and that may be why he got careless.

I don't know about the Zodiac killer--what about him makes you think EIE?

I've wondered before if Richard Ramirez could be EIE; we had a thread on him in the forum and people guessed SLI and IEI, though.

We're talking about people whose personalities are not normal and whose brains are not normal, so although I do think they could be typed in most cases, typing them confuses me. My guess would be that whatever isn't messed up in them might lean toward ST personality qualities, and after that Se-valuing T types (no offense to anyone), but that the "superficial charm" some of them possess could get interpreted as weird Fe.

It's not unlike the way a lot of YouTube personalities keep getting typed Fe-ego when I think they are often some other type (often Ne-heavy) impersonating Fe in an over-the-top way because that's their untrained idea of what it means to perform or entertain. Then when people type them they conclude it's actually Fe.

[golden]

I have found them very good as technologists in forensics laboratories where investigative inventiveness was key. They didn't seem to be as focused on the procedural or safety aspects of the job, but could force themselves to do it. They needed to be kept challenged because when they became bored, their work became sloppy. And, they wrote excellent reports.

a.k.a. I/O

See, this kind of thing I actually really love. Too late for me to be a technologist in a forensic lab, but work of this nature is a good fit.

[golden]

Ik, though I attribute all of what you said to ESE. Caregiving suits the profession more than victim, esp because boundary enforcement - strong Se (not necessarily valued), keeping sb happy - Fe WITHOUT Ni because Ni brings the drama, insecurity, musing, third eye stuff, detached advice, mentorship, head in the clouds, being a sage. Beta is far too anti-establishment to dance obediently all year with a Chippendale outfit on, selling their body like a slave UNLESS! They are Sx/So and e7, e3, that range. In that case, mhm. Internal mechanisms as in, psychologically? Si sounds more like it, Si is knowing the internal mechanism of someone else.

I had my "chance," if you wanna call it that, at working as a stripper during college. One of my friends was a stripper and trying to recruit me, as was my next-door neighbor, another stripper. This didn't appeal to me whatsoever, so I barely gave it a thought.

* I like to perform, but in situations where I have control over most everything. And I prefer opportunities to perform with a lot of skill.

* The level of anger I'd have felt at being treated as a sex object would have led me to get into arguments. I wouldn't have lasted more than a couple of days.

* I don't want people looking at my body. I don't like exposing my body for other people. I don't want people touching me except for the very few people I'm close to. I want a BIG personal space between me and strangers. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

* The strip clubs where I lived were gross, i.e., assaulted the senses.

* The people who went to those clubs, the ones I met via my stripper friend, were gross, pitiful, needy, idiotic, sad losers who for various reasons needed to purchase their time with women. Either they weren't able to get women to hang out with them any other way, or they weren't comfortable with women unless they had a one-up power position relative to them.

* My friend was always under pressure to do drugs and prostitute herself.

* My friend was exquisitely beautiful, much, much more beautiful than I was, and even then she wasn't making all that much money relative to the amount of shit she was putting up with. I was working as a piano accompanist at the time and earned more $ per hour on average than she did.

* Both these strippers ended up with acute psychological problems and dropped out of school. Not very inspiring.

* I want respect.

[mu4]

I see EIE as one of the most varied types there's really no restriction to what they can do.

However the sort of job that would make them very unsatisfied is any sort of job where there is little recognition, solitary and socially alienating.

[golden]

no restriction to what they can do.

The problem being, I need to impose restrictions on what I can do, or I can't accomplish anything.

[mu4]

The problem being, I need to impose restrictions on what I can do, or I can't accomplish anything.

Novelty wise, I think something like an fine artist would be good for EIE. My EIE mom started painting at 60 and is selling works now.

Stability standpoint, your background is literary and I think you should stick with it, there's a lot of different environments out there.

[golden]

Novelty wise, I think something like an fine artist would be good for EIE. My EIE mom started painting at 60 and is selling works now.

Stability standpoint, your background is literary and I think you should stick with it, there's a lot of different environments out there.

There's no money in "things literary" and I'm no longer interested in it, either.

[mu4]

There's no money in "things literary" and I'm no longer interested in it, either.

Make money selling pictures of chihuahua's in hats?

[golden]

Make money selling pictures of chihuahua's in hats?

Your advice isn't very good, but thanks for the effort.

[Eliza Thomason]

There exists at least one EIE mathematician, he does research in pure maths (discrete maths), has done so for a good 20-30 years at a prestigious university and has tenure.

My EIE sis-in-law is sort of a mathmetician. An accountant. I remember her telling me, when she was working for a top-ten accounting firm, not far out of college, that wherever she works they all love her, because she is such an atypical personality for an accountant. She said her desk was always surrounded by coworkers fascinated with someone who would talk and listen... She is a natural networker, and a very positive person, so she has been open to changes, enjoying work as a CFO of charter schools and now works for the state education department in her state...

[Exodus]

I'm embarrassed to say I had no one specific in mind. "Serial killers = Beta" is an idea that amuses me. And I was making a joke of all the terrible things someone might suggest for EIE to prevent people from making a lot of lame comments.

Bundy is most likely Beta, I think, but he could be SLE. If I had to argue EIE for him, I'd consider the following:

1. His often-used ruse of pretending to be injured to lure women fits with a victim personality.
2. He finally succeeded as a university student studying psychology and worked in a suicide-hotline crisis center and a co-worker found him kind and empathetic.
3. He was sometimes careless vs. meticulous. For example, he was stopped by police and was simply driving around with a lot of his murder equipment (pantyhose, ice pick, rope, handcuffs). I imagine a ST would be more in control of the physical aspects of their murders, but as far as I know Bundy was pretty full of himself and daring, and that may be why he got careless.

Yes SLE is also plausible.

I don't know about the Zodiac killer--what about him makes you think EIE?

It seems like the letters he wrote were to attract attention and create some kind of spectacle. Not necessarily EIE, I would also consider SEE or SLE.