More Se clutter and grouping, manipulative examples down below. It's funny how Se works isn't it?
More Se clutter and grouping, manipulative examples down below. It's funny how Se works isn't it?
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I guess this statement reflects that she has nothing more to say to our valid arguments.Originally Posted by Maritsa33
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
You aren't a liar as far as I or any one else is concerned. Its the opposite actually, she is, it seems.
I hope she hasn't hurt you to much by her pushiness.
Hakuna Matata
She does these statements often, my guess is she avoids dealing with truth, this (i think) is her way of 'getting off the topic'.
Hakuna Matata
I had an INFj, mild, calm, gentle teacher once and about a group of 9 to 12 ESFp students in the class; the teacher was trying to teach and in the middle of class, there was a distrubance. Some of the ESFp students started to "jerk her knees", by making completely irrelevant comments at her, she couldn't control the class until one ISTp, big guy, stood up and told everyone to "shut up!". She smiled at him and all went well after that. I couldn't stand up and tell everyone to "shut up!", even though in my heart I wanted to defend her. I befriended this ISTp guy and he was a good friend.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
The fact that you want to contribute to knowledge and wanting to help is not related to Se-PoLR.
You are aware that what is happening is dangerous, therefore you can easily walk away from the situation; thus, you do not need someone who will allieviate the situation or take you out of it, you need someone to fight the battle with you, one that you choose to participate in. You have no need for an ESTj.
Ceci n'est pas une eii.
We are persistant, us INFj's, we don't back away from a good moral fight (unless our courageous and strong duals step in and take over), we just make speeches with loud speakers so the voices of other bickerings are not heard...you know, kind of like how Mia Farrow (also INFj) is opposed to the struggle in Darfur.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
This is all assuming you got their types right, of course.
p.s. a guy who stands up and shouts "shut up" is Se-ego. SLI would never do it that way.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Hehehe, that made me laughCheck it out, I'm being diplomatic*laughs at self and leaves thread*
Well, this is great and all but i'm off for a coffee nowcatch you guys later!
Hakuna Matata
sorry but i have no respect such foolishness and manipulation, so no I am appalled at the fact that she persists and continues to pushes her POV on people just so that SHE can be in the right, even when its obviously wrong.You have to have at least a degree of respect for Maritsa -- I'm not sure I'd have the fortitude to do what she does, continually and untiringly defend her pov from multiple people every time she speaks.
However, Maritsa, you must realize that calling people liars and saying that they're pretending to be a type that they're not is going to upset them.
Check it out, I'm being diplomatic
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
That's very sweet of you, thank you. I'll admit it does bother me more than I'd like. But I think she said it to me mostly just to manipulate me into showing her a picture of myself.
I wonder if we should move discussion of Maritsa's type to the type thread for her in the other sub-forum? That way we don't clog this thread up too much.
I don't think trying to reason with Maritsa right now (or perhaps any time?) is going go do any good. She's feeling attacked and ganged up on, in addition to her "allergy" to reason. I think the goal of offering caution and balance to any newbies who might read this thread has been achieved.
And, yes, Diana, she does have admirable persistence. That's why I think she'd make a loyal friend. It's just she doesn't really defend her views, only keeps repeating them. Which drives some people nuts...
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
So Se is everything that Rasputin said and with polr position it results in everything that I have described to you in regards to INFj. I forgot to add one more note, because of Se-polr, INFj's will purchase and return goods in an obsessive manner in the attempt to match up things that they can't once, at the store...so they look like shoppers who are curious about everything but in reality are struggling to get something that fits.
To end this struggle, I changed everything to white, and even though it's not one kind or texture of white, it's at least something I can tollerate.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
If you VI'd then, I can put your picture next to mine and show you the difference.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
In a place like this, where people arn't really in front of me, I can be a little more courageous and ardently struggle against criticism; I wouldn't do it as well in public, at least not without my dual standing next to me...that is being attacked face to face by people, pointing fingers at me, screaming at me, calling me names, shouting inconsistant and out of place information...in that case, I just walk away. In public, I can defend my ideals, with a microphone, very loud speakers and security guards around.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Yeah so why do you turn right around and substantiate Se primary typings of people on this forum who also state they have weak Se in real life??
Didn't you consider the possibility that the same situation might be occuring with others here (i.e. those you insistently keep typing SEE)? Oh no, but for those people you say "oh they just can't see their use of Se". So you, through a computer screen can see it better than they can? So why can't we say the same thing about you?
So as you can see, YOU are the manipulative one here.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
PLEASE DO NOT ADDRESS ME
I know you don't like to hear that, but you don't seem to look back at your posts or your behavior and weigh them with logic and reasoning...
None of the things they said have weak Se....Se is what Rasputin said down below, and if you read my posts in regards to shopping for stuff, you will find the tie there.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
For me it's doubting my energy and willpower to perform certain tasks. It's also not being sure if I can handle situations that involve forceful energy, and not knowing if I used to much or too little when I do.
Se does not have much to do with energy or willpower; that's a misconception...many ESFp's have low energy, that doesn't make them INFj's and neither does it in your case.
My energy is such that I continue working even when everyone else has stoped....that's clearly written in Filatova's description of INFj...try READING.
wikisocion-COULDN'T be a worse reference for element descriptions..Rasputin is an excellent one, however.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Biting off more than I can chew is an awful feeling, when it dawns on me that I have assumed so much work that I don't know if I'll be able to finish it.
Hmm, yes, I see this in myself as well. But is it related to Se-PoLR or is it really Te-DS?
Ceci n'est pas une eii.
Why? because you know I'm right. And with your stupidity you just can't win with me.I warned you about that way back when, now apparently you are realizing it. You can't smear up my eyes with your nonsense and you can't expect people to just be silent about it (especially people with Fi-ego, who care about morals and truth
I will address you when I choose to. This is a free world and you are not one to command me otherwise. I hadn't been responding to you for a while because I had you on ignore (which I regret taking you off of and may put you back on).
p.s. i have no idea nor do i care who your little friend Rasputin is or what he/she says. Nor do i really pay attention to your definitions of things anymore. You've proven yourself already that your info means nothing. Shopping?? who the hell cares about shopping? Hello? IRRELEVANT!
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I think that's a good way of putting it
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
The WHOLE point is in the shopping. As I said STOP addressing me...Why? because you know I'm right. And with your stupidity you just can't win with me.
I will address you when I choose to. This is a free world and you are not one to command me otherwise. I hadn't been responding to you for a while because I had you on ignore (which I regret taking you off of and may put you back on).
p.s. i have no idea nor do i care who your little friend Rasputin is or what he/she says. Nor do i really pay attention to your definitions of things anymore. You've proven yourself already that your info means nothing. Shopping?? who the hell cares about shopping? Hello? IRRELEVANT!
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Not sure, though I'm leaning towards Se-polr. Efficiency undoubtedly reduces energy expenditure.
Can you stand people demanding you to do things or put things back in their place, time after time?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
That's my idea of a nightmare.
Get ready for your dual then...ask Ryu and he will tell you what I mean, unless of course you want to change your type.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Lesson number one for you...
Open and direct, cursing, falsely pointing, making inappropriate and out of place comments at me like workaholicanon does about be being IEI when I have already shared my type as EII, commenting on my lack of style, puts direct pressure on Se-polr.
Thing improve when I am acknowledged for having picked out an item that is unique in a good way seems to be nuteral.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Somebody disagreeing with you is not Se. If anything, showing offense at having your factual understanding questioned is a logical PoLR, not sensory
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
Marie has a good point.
No, in a rapid succession of blocking my comments by not hearing me but forcing a point is pressure on Se because that is a call to challenge and if I am callenging a type that does not respond appropriately then what can I do if I have to force?
I have to either compromise my values and ignor them for my own sake or submit to the pressure and start crying.
As Rasutin said:
"Extraverted sensing......external statics of objects: (share, texture, impact, force, etc.), what we refer to as properties of an object or objective traits, leading to action toward objects via mobilization or arrangement, manipulation of force to achieve desired results. "
The impact is psychological in this case not physical.
It plays out like this
INFj: It's an apple.
ESFp: It's an orange.
INFj: But I showed you the color the style and it's an apple.
ESFp: you are lying and manipulating
INFj: what is there to lie about when I am showing you what I have.
ESFp: you can do anything you want maritsa, it will always be an orange.
INFj: ok it will be as you said for you
ESFp: you want people to see it your way
INFj: I said you can have it whatever way you want
ESFp: you can't make me see apple, it is orange
INFj: I understand
ESFp: maritsa tries to make everyone see apple, it's orange maritsa
INFj: ignores
ESFp: maritsa is X, Y, and Z and sees apple when orange.
INFj: (pressure is well exceeded at this point) please see what you would like
ESFp: maritsa you can....; maritsa is this that and the other...; accept it maritsa
INFj: please don't address me.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-22-2010 at 07:30 AM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
People are discussing and questioning you on your understanding of Socionics, which is nothing new here and certainly not Se
You seem to regard having your type questioned as a challenge or attack, yet you have done this to multiple people (including myself). Maybe you are being misunderstood and feel bullied, and I'm sorry if that is, but I can at least admire you for standing-up for your beliefs even if they fight those of a majority
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
When I address it; I just tell you what type I think you are and give you reasons why, but ESFp will keep at your tail, follow you in every thread, make sure that new people know how rediculous you are; I don't do that, my comment is for you and I will not embarrase you excessively point you out in a succession of inappropriate places in a continuous manner; I will tell you then drop it. Unless in a new thread, you provide information about you to substantiate proof of my typing of you, in that case, I will highlight it call your attention to it; if you persist that you are the type and not provide evidence for it then I that is through morals; morals called out you should not lie; liar.
Other INFj's understand this persistance and bullying behavior that puts pressure on Se-polr and frustrates the INFj and so stand up against the behavior...but just like ESFp begin to have one voice, method, style and pattern so will a collective of INFj's
Thus far, all those who have self typed as INFj's have not recognized this behavior so it makes me doubt that they are one; another INFj, like myself, would have traced the comments back and started to point out situations when words were exchanged through Ti - saying things like ...well on March...you said that and now you are saying this to Maritsa; why didn't you show your VI so maritsa can show us that you are INFj...see?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
oh dear, I don't think this is going anywhere
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
We will also repoint to our typing of another when that person makes inappropriate comments about us...thing like what was said about me in ENTj or ESTj thread; like ignor maritsa, maritsa is this or that...etc.
Why do you have hang ups about VI?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
this is the internet, and that has nothing to do with Se. pressure comes in many different typed of forms and many types challenge in different ways. to attribute a general pressure to Se is a gross misgeneralization on your part
your understanding is horribly flawed.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" isand not
words induce emotions...if someone calls you "stupid" you might process that in one way; the other 15 types process each word as it makes an impression on their psyche
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
What I see from Maritsa is Ne. She claims government of the intellectual sphere and demands obeisance of her opinions in everything and she demands extreme Si. I see her as claiming both Fi and a actually trying to take the Ti position too, and ALSO to take the NI-victim position, but anyone can see that she's the active party. Behaviour like this is what I'd really like people to consider when they think that only Se is aggressive. She shows clear Se-POLR, but is about as aggressive as anyone can be. So what gives? Stereotype is wrong. Extrovert is always extrovert no matter if it's sensory or intuitive. Impact is always impact.
EDIT:
I would like to take the opportunity to phrase out my understanding of IJ-Ne:
It is strategic, careful, extrovert, judicious, detached.
It will not budge from it's strategic objective and it will not engage in any tactical maneuvering. It is unbudging, forceful, pushy, judging (in the non-socionics sense) and abstract. It demands to be accommodated by direct physical changes in the environment whenever it requires such. It will not give anything of itself, except its opinion, which is negative when it is direct and roundabout when it is positive.
Last edited by Smilingeyes; 03-22-2010 at 08:43 AM.
First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.
yeah sure, but the concept of Se is not subjective, its an objective term that should be interpreted as the theory meant for it to be.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
i would have never been able to put it this way myself, that's why i can't take part in "these" threads (there are several of them already). thank you!
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