not really.Originally Posted by Winterpark
not really.
You're just too good at saying no to everything.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Maybe he is ENTj.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
yes really.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
you really have no clue, do you?
He makes Fabie sound more like an SEI than SLI, but his description also fits with my perception of what SEEs are like better than either of those two, EIE, SLE, or LIE.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
What do you expect from an economist?
Btw I think Peter is generally (well, from what I can deduce from our interaction) quite relaxed and friendly too, not tense at all (if that's an argument against Ezra being an 8 - but to be taken with a huge grain of salt - beware of high pressure). Yes, he's a bit more "serious" than me, but that can be a result of age and upbringing and personal preferences IMHO - I know this distinction isn't generally very well received but it does play a part.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
i expect that most people who dive headlong into economics and argue for rather staunch positions are Ti types. the people who do that on this community are pretty universally betas, but that's not a fair comparison because there are so many more betas here than not.
You should visit some economics departments then. The % of gamma NTs there would absolutely astound you. In fact, I would go as far as saying that the greatest majority of the economists of the list of the top 1000 : http://student.ulb.ac.be/~tcoupe/update/top1000c.html are LIEs and ILIs. You simply do not know enough about the subject and the people in it to given an informed opinion, niffweed. It's something you should absolutely shut up about until you know better, lest looking like a fool.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Well I can't observe myself, which is why I was just commenting on you and Ezra. I do think what you described plays a part in people's behavior.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
I think maturity is the most prominent factor in this situation. That being said, I would expect Ezra to appear more intense than dj, given that his Se is always on, and that he is seeking Fe. As for enneagram type, I'm not sure that it points one way or the other. dj has himself typed sx/sp, which, if paired with cp6w5 and Se ego, I would expect to come across as pretty damn intense, lol. Ezra is most likely sp/sx (I think that was his most recent self-typing, and it makes decent sense), which doesn't really say much, but I'm just pointing it out. Lastly, if Ezra was a cp6 with a few more compensatory habits than dj, this could explain his ostensible behavior, at least in part. Conversly, if he is in fact an 8, this would probably produce a more natural state of intensity and/or forcefulness.
4w3-5w6-8w7
you're right; i don't know the vast majority of these people. even so, i don't think for a second that "most of them are gamma NTs."
i also don't know if this people fit the sort of Ti-driven archetype which people like you and ashton are rather perfect examples of.
Are you talking about me or Expat (we both have the same name)?
oh sorry, about expat (i haven't met you)
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
bah. unfounded accusation of a purely personal nature.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
lol
O RLY?
I hope he was talking about you, or else my post becomes pretty useless.
4w3-5w6-8w7
DAMMIT
Although, this does clear up quite a bit from before. Expat is clearly more calm than Ezra IMO, and I think this is due primarily to maturity. I'm not expounding again, lol.
4w3-5w6-8w7
I figured, but strrrng's post confused me.
Fabio's post confused me, lol, so I was sort of half-writing my post, connecting the dots as I went along.
Oh well.
4w3-5w6-8w7
I haven't even looked at that list, but I would agree that a large number of economists are Gamma NT. I don't know about "majority". Perhaps.
Shut up, asshole.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Do you think he's relaxed? I don't. I feel he's as high-strung as I (not meant as offence, Expat; only observation), if not more so. Friendly: as friendly as a logical type can be(that is, I find ethical types to be generally warmer).
It shouldn't astound anyone who understands money in relation to Gamma, nor the practical application of economic theory. Why niffweed can't seem to see that economics is basically a Gamma theory, I don't know.
Also, if I was a counterphobic Six, I would have to be a self-preservationist (variant is separate from type), which I clearly am. However, the picture of the self-preservationist Six is fucking ridiculous if you try taking it in conjunction with me. It's completely not like me, if not a total contradiction. They use warmth to draw individuals closer or something, and they can get misidentified as a Two. If anyone IRL said I looked like a Two, I would LOL. In fact, the only kind of Six that really gets mixed up with the Eight is the sexual first, and even then, they only get mixed with an Eight at level 6 (according to R&H). If I am sexual last, this is a silly thing to say, and I am definitely not sexual first.
FTR, I think I said I was "sp/so". I still hold this to be true. I was contemplating sexual second for a while, but I think social second fits better if you look at my whole life. I'm definitely sp-first.
Basically, strrrng, the intensity and forcefulness you saw on screen with Leon wasn't forced; it was genuine, but I also swore a lot more than I do, for comedy value. IRL, I am an intense person, simple as. I'm forceful in my opinions; you may see B&D going "ooh you think you're so tough psycho-analysing someone on a forum" or whatever, but I find him funny when he does this. My opinions are basically what I express with force. Sixes play the hardman because they need security; I don't even try. I don't want to be a hardman. I just want to get on with life and do what needs to be done; I don't need an image to feel secure about myself.
FTR: I don't count this as a thread derail, because it's about Fabio and me.
What do you think about so/sx or sp/sx? I could see a cp6w7 so/sx appearing as 8, since they want to not only appear "hard," but they project it outwardly. And tbh, if you are in fact "intense" - which I believe you are, more or less - I cannot see how you don't have sx in your stacking. sx isn't about intimacy, despite shitty online descriptions. It is quite simply a search for intense experiences that promise a charge, a connection (not necessarily to a person, just to anything with intensity).
Well, my opinion is that sp/sx is better than sp/so. I could obviously be wrong, just throwing it out there.FTR, I think I said I was "sp/so". I still hold this to be true. I was contemplating sexual second for a while, but I think social second fits better if you look at my whole life. I'm definitely sp-first.
Ok, this makes sense, and is a good case for 8 imo. I still don't see you as sx last; you have a vibrancy (not like a beta NF, just general intensity) that would go well with sx secondary IMO.Basically, strrrng, the intensity and forcefulness you saw on screen with Leon wasn't forced; it was genuine, but I also swore a lot more than I do, for comedy value. IRL, I am an intense person, simple as. I'm forceful in my opinions; you may see B&D going "ooh you think you're so tough psycho-analysing someone on a forum" or whatever, but I find him funny when he does this. My opinions are basically what I express with force. Sixes play the hardman because they need security; I don't even try. I don't want to be a hardman. I just want to get on with life and do what needs to be done; I don't need an image to feel secure about myself.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Maybe this time it has to do with the situation. I've met you during a time in my life that was generally tense, and in a bit of a hurry, driving after work, etc. I met Fabio during a break, in Venice, with plenty of time.Do you think he's relaxed? I don't. I feel he's as high-strung as I (not meant as offence, Expat; only observation), if not more so. Friendly: as friendly as a logical type can be
I don't think that's really where he comes from. I think that he means that a lot of highly-opinionated economists are Ti. Keynes and John Kenneth Galbraith.
Yep, I agree with that. And it's not me. I've described a few situations where intensity was important, but they are few. Plus, the R&H sx-first description of the Eight is not like me.
It's possible, as I suggested.Well, my opinion is that sp/sx is better than sp/so. I could obviously be wrong, just throwing it out there.
What is this "vibrancy" of which you speak, good sir?I still don't see you as sx last; you have a vibrancy (not like a beta NF, just general intensity) that would go well with sx secondary IMO.
I see. Keynes is a bit of a legend in his economic policies. I know little of Galbraith, but I'm not sure I'd like him (from the few sentences I've read about him), even though Milton Friedman - a bit of an intense right-winger - criticised him.I don't think that's really where he comes from. I think that he means that a lot of highly-opinionated economists are Ti. Keynes and John Kenneth Galbraith.
Alright, I'd totally agree with that. But I never particularly subscribed to any of their notions (especially those of Galbraith).
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Honestly, Fabio, socionics aside (no "I want to make things work" or "I want to earn money in the most efficient way possible!" shit), why are you studying economics? Why do you want to be an economist (or a businessman if this is what you want to do)?
I actually think Galbraith makes great reading, but I'm a politics student, so I'm more interested in his ideas and perspectives than in the practicality of implementing his economic perspectives.
(
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
Well, I personally always liked the subject and did well at think, and I think I have a "comparative advantage" because of these reasons. I find it to be quite complete in the sense that it comprises history, mathematics, psychology, etc. I also like the possible job prospects, both the ones that are directly linked (research) and those that are indirectly possible (such as going into business, as you say). Thirdly, it's (usually) a field that (more often than not) guarantees at least a decent standard of living - on average, of course.
He's a good writer, but I don't find his ideas more valuable than a very good lesson of rethoric (not in the negative sense of the word, but in the more classical sense). Perhaps his political analysis makes a bit more sense than the economic one.I actually think Galbraith makes great reading, but I'm a politics student, so I'm more interested in his ideas and perspectives than in the practicality of implementing his economic perspectives.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Not to sound like steve, but if you picture a vibration/resonation/flux in your head, and apply it to personality, you can sort of see how some people tend to have more of an edge/intensity/passion/whatever about them. sx last people tend to not be as "vibrant" lol.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Just extending this a little, sp/so people tend to have a very 'smooth' countenance. It's hard to describe, but it's like a very slippery, polished surface. They tend to be unabrasive and difficult to perturb. It affects their speech as well - again, smooth patterns, no erratic declarations or sudden, sharp changes in their tone/volume. It's very...'professional', you might say.
I just can't imagine that Ezra could come off like that.
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
Yes, sp/so is the most balanced stacking IMO.
Based on the above-said, I think it's out of the question. Even if 8's are more intense and forceful, an sp/so 8 (I'll reread the description in the book) is probably someone more grounded, like a stereotypical provider, in a sense. Point being, I just think that Ezra has too much intensity to him (not like he's a raving lunatic, it's just there) to not have sx in his stacking.I just can't imagine that Ezra could come off like that.
On a side note, what I just wrote made me think of Expat. Expat, are you certain of the sx/sp typing for yourself? I only ask because you don't feel as sporadic and impulsive as that type tends to be (disregarding temperament). With the low so focus and sx in the first slot, the people tend to fervently engage in whatever activity will provide charge, on a very day-to-day basis (obviously ego block funtions affect this as well, to some degree). This isn't to say that they are the pioneering rebels, as such an attitude can have negative effects as well as positive. For me, the plus side is being able to hyper-focus and apply myself to something with complete intensity, which I find that many other people cannot to, to that degree. On the down side, I find myself sometimes swept away with the search for charge, and engaging in reckless behaviors that only end up hurting me more. So, how do you think this relates to you? fwiw, my first instinct on your stacking was sp/sx.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Precisely. An sp/so stacking would convert the 8's force to something more settled, stable and 'heavy'. It would be more about immovability and fortitude (like a small mountain moving toward their objectives, lol). On the other hand, Ezra's forcefulness seems much more like reigned in volatility, the sp holding back the forward-pushing sx, then any form of groundedness.
3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
Hooray for politics! (Best module last semester was a politics one.)
I know what you mean.
Jesus, it seems my understanding of the sp/so is totally skewered. Come to think of it, the way in which you've explained it is pretty much in line with this, from our good, faithful friend, Ocean Moonshine:
The last bit explains my views of relationships very, very well. This is probably due to the fact that I am self-preservationist first, and this kind of applies to that.
To be honest, although all of them make some level of sense, sp/sx actually does make more sense than sp/so. I read some stuff on esper's blog, and it would seem that the levels of energy I expend are more than an sp/so would.
Exactly.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote