I think you should be able to deduce from this thread that there never has been, nor will there ever be, anything resembling a "friendship" between Jesse and I.
I think you should be able to deduce from this thread that there never has been, nor will there ever be, anything resembling a "friendship" between Jesse and I.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Item 1
This is from the first page of the field guide, written by SL.Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
I do not identify with beta spirit, and as SL pointed out, I have felt this way for a long time.
Item 2 - http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Beta_Quadra
from wikisocionGroup behavior
Preference for larger groups where participation is "collective" rather than focused on individuals for any length of time, but with likely "domination" by more assertive individuals. Loud exchange of jokes for the benefit of the group, occasionally at one individual's expense. Attempt at drawing others into the group activity: for example, in a situation where there are "group rituals" going on (as in drinking, dancing, etc), good-natured pressure on "outsiders" to also participate in them, with a sort of puzzled dismay if they prefer not to. In more subdued moments, discussion of ideas involving present trends and political implications, with strong views voiced. Personal experiences tend to be discussed from the point of view of their external impact rather than the individual's own personal view of them.
- I cannot stand group behavior like this. I have never in my life done the following: "good-natured pressure on "outsiders" to also participate in them, with a sort of puzzled dismay if they prefer not to." - and I particularly do not like those people that do this to me. One side of my family is predominantly beta, and I have uneasy relations with them primarily because of this. I almost walked out of a family gathering at one point because I was entirely not in the mood (long story - maybe later) for this "good natured pressure" or coercing of me - I was prepared to walk out, slam the door, and walk 3 miles at night to my own home.
Also, I cannot stand loud atmospheres. The "at one individual's expense" often bothers me as well, and seems combative and immature - something I do not desire, or enjoy.
I am the exact opposite of this - and yet I am Beta? I much prefer quieter events; I am bored at large events.When larger social events are organized by Betas (such as parties, receptions etc), they show an inclination to promote activities that will lead to the guests involved as a single group, such as games and shows; dislike for the "quieter" form of events where guests tend to quietly form smaller groups in more intimate atmospheres, which Betas tend to see as boring.
I don't really care about "fun and often loud stories" - that certainly is now how I spend my time relaxing, or how I want to spend my free time.For Betas the activity or the topic are not as important as the atmosphere. Therefore when a group of betas is together, they tend to end up trying to entertain each other. They exchange fun (and often loud) stories to feed the atmosphere, so that the group energy won't run out. People talk fast and they often add comments to other people's stories if they feel that the pace is slowing down. When someone starts to talk, he takes on the obligation to entertain for the duration of the monologue and, in a friendly group, other people only interrupt to try and help him keep control of the atmosphere.
N/A, no comments I guess. I don't have any problem addressing what needs to be said.Talking about personal matters in a group is not something that Betas generally do. It's viewed almost as treachery when something that was told in a one-on-one conversation is retold in front of a group, or when someone criticizes another person's traits in front of the group. Betas believe such things should be told in private and should not be used to embarrass or belittle a friend.
This does not bother me.Betas also don't like it when people tell long, slow stories. Betas try to be polite and listen to the story, and they will forgive you if it was boring for them, but if someone does it too often they might not be invited back. Betas restrict slow stories to one-on-one conversations. However, IEIs are more likely to adjust to the slower stories because they are very flexible conversationalists.
... how I am "beta" and "Fe valuing" I do not see.
There are many stories from my beta family so I won't give them a number.
But, they "relax" by playing competitive board games against each other, late into the evening sometimes. I rarely play with them, only if I really feel like it. Tonight, I walked out, deliberately and directly avoiding an offer to play another board game - despite being proded by two ENFjs. Their provocations only irritated me further. I would consider doing it more often out of a sense of loyalty - but provoking me to be a part of their competitive atmosphere is extremely unappealing. So I decided to come home and do my own thing, which was much, much, much more enjoyable than staying and playing a board game, competitively, amongst my family.
This profile talks about how beta's feel an odd sense of disappointment when people don't join in? I do not understand this, and never expect anyone to necessarily join into what I do - I think it is rude to just expect people, and I dislike it even more when this "expectation" that you have on others, when unfulfilled, leads to disappointment, or even resentment. It's your own fault for expecting such a thing, you're not entitled to being mad at someone because they did not comply with your expectations.
PS: one thing I would like to add, any time you are "torn" between someone being in opposing quadras, that is not really a "narrow margin". There is no "fine line" here, there are blatant differences.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
ScarlettLux: Beta > Gamma > anything else (and ethical, probably not IJ)
UDP: Beta > Delta > Gamma > anything else (and rational, strikes me as rather IJ)
Gilligan: Alpha or Beta > Delta > anything else
Last edited by Joy; 12-28-2007 at 03:05 PM.
.
I don't think he's ESI. I really don't know what type he is though. If I were to ignore what he says about Beta, I'd say LSI. I originally had the post say "Beta or Gamma > Delta > anything else" but changed it when I thought of the stuff he's said about Fi.
I dunno. He doesn't seem Ne/Si to me, and he's rational. That's pretty much all I've got.
What is your rationalization then, how do you..... how do you deal with the reality that I do not associate with "beta group atmosphere" at all?
Do you think I am lying? Do you think I am misunderstanding it?
This is what baffles me.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
.
Exactly. The beta quadra descriptions (or "beta spirit" as it were) often give me an image in my mind of monkeys at the zoo. This could mean I'm not actually beta (but not necessarily!).
What I'm getting at is I think it's possible to belong to a quadra and not wholly identify with its descriptions. The beta descriptions often seem over-the-top to me (either that, or my imagination runs away with it too much), so I might try to tone them down a bit in my mind and see if there's more convergence if they're in a milder form.
Neither do I.
I don't know what type you are, UDP, but I thought I'd add this in.
I don't know. Perhaps you're misunderstanding it. Perhaps you don't have enough life experience yet. Perhaps you have poor self-awareness (I know I do). Perhaps I'm simply wrong.
In typing people, I often set aside their views of themselves, including type and quadra, at least temporarily, and go by my observations. It's not that I think that they're wrong, it's that I want to take out a variable. When I have considered their type from that perspective, I go back to their self-perception and see how it fits. Sometimes it fits well, sometimes it doesn't. The reason I haven't said "I think UDP is definitely this type" is because it doesn't fit well. I do, however, think that some of the things you attribute to being LSE are more LSI in nature... but again, I don't know what type you are. If I had to guess, right now I'd say LSI. The next option would be LSE. Beyond that.... I don't know. I can't really imagine you as anything other than a rational ST at this point.
You don't think his value of Se is more apparent than the possibility that he's a sensor?
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I go back and forth on that one. He seems pretty damned aristocratic to me. I really can't picture an LIE talking about community and honor and duty the way he does (not that it isn't possible, but those things make an ST type seem a hell of a lot more likely than any other type). I do think he values Se though. The only reason I haven't settled on LSI for him is because of what he says about his type and quadra.
I didn't particularly dislike him until this incident, although he had left me feeling frustrated on multiple occasions.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote