Caring for your Delta NF (INFj & ENFp)

[Suz]

Sometimes Delta NF's have trouble verbalizing...just listen.
Sometimes they blurt...just listen.
Sometimes they cry...just be there and listen if needed.
Don't force them to be "normal" or do "normal" things in a "normal" way...just enjoy them as they are.
Bossiness or pushiness is very off-putting to us.
We enjoy laughter, smiles, shining eyes, good intentions, happy hearts.

What do we give in return?
All that we can .

I love this!!

Shining eyes, good intentions, and happy hearts is right!

And you're right about the bossiness and pushiness--I am VERY sensitive to that. I've refused 2nd dates on that basis.

[Gilly]

[Suz]

It's a good thread



there are few responses from actual ST's lol

Yeah, c'mon guys, dont be shy!

[Aiss]

I've also thought of "caring" as looking after someone when I first saw this thread. Which reminded me of Care and Feeding of a Mate (Guardian = SJ, Artisan = SP, Idealist = NF, Rationalist = NT, for unfamiliar with Keirsey).

[Mattie]

YouTube - Original Chia Pet Commercal

I had a Chia pet when I was younger, I always thought the commercials were trippy lol

I've also thought of "caring" as looking after someone when I first saw this thread. Which reminded me of Care and Feeding of a Mate (Guardian = SJ, Artisan = SP, Idealist = NF, Rationalist = NT, for unfamiliar with Keirsey).

That made me gag a little.

[Beautiful sky]

To take care of me:

1. Provide me with balance using Te, for mental and emotional health, which I have previously asked you to do and which you have conveniently neglected.

2. Provide healthy Si exposure and don't overdo it like ISTp's can..

[UDP]

but what does that mean?

[Beautiful sky]

Be the voice of reason behind the emotions.

[UDP]

for IEEs (less so with EIIs?)

IEEs seem to want to freely talk about all of their past relational experiences. It's actually kind of weird. I think this is sort of a Ti polr thing, maybe? I don't think they realize how it can weird out other people. It happened to me and another one of my friends - she was a female SLI, and got that same weirdness from a male IEE.

[Beautiful sky]

I don't talk about my past relationships, in fact, I wish that they disappeared into the abyss.

[UDP]

I don't talk about my past relationships, in fact, I wish that they disappeared into the abyss.

heh

You should say you vomit them out and hope to never be reminded of them.

[Beautiful sky]

I've spoken about my X-BF ISTp once or twice on the forum, but I don't hold any ill feelings or resentments about the relationships; I just wish I had known why our relationship wasn't whole and could express my feelings in words and break things off sooner. I was with him for a long time -there I'm talking about it. Stop activating this function.

[Beautiful sky]

Yeah I don't want to be reminded of them.

I don't know about the vomiting part; I always had this disgust for that.

I'm sorry that I shifted what you said around in your original post to be like what I wrote in the above, if you can compare and contrast. (oh sorry Ti ignoring)...That's just my Ti role.

[Simon Ssmall]

for IEEs (less so with EIIs?)

IEEs seem to want to freely talk about all of their past relational experiences. It's actually kind of weird. I think this is sort of a Ti polr thing, maybe? I don't think they realize how it can weird out other people. It happened to me and another one of my friends - she was a female SLI, and got that same weirdness from a male IEE.

Probably because those relationships were not bad, they were just not good enough for any million number of weird reasons, meaning the IEE probably wasnt hurt (or was but rationalizes he wasnt) so he doesnt see problems talking about it. I do talk about my past relationships but I guess I try to first find out what would be a reaction. NOT talking about it seems weird for me too, it is part of your life experience, knowing it can help you understand the person better.

[Park]

IEEs seem to want to freely talk about all of their past relational experiences.

What's wrong with that?

And what's up with people shunning away from discussions about relationships? Devalued Fi? (That's way more weirder to me, actually)

[Beautiful sky]

What's wrong with that?

And what's up with people shunning away from discussions about relationships? Devalued Fi? (That's way more weirder to me, actually)

Because the prospects of the present relationship and the future development of it should be much more important and should deserve more attention.

The question is why should we wait until ESTj's are ready to approach us when they are ready to help? They should in all ideally come to us when they are ready or not, a little vulnerability and uncertainty is ok in any relationship.

[ashlesha]

Probably because those relationships were not bad, they were just not good enough for any million number of weird reasons, meaning the IEE probably wasnt hurt (or was but rationalizes he wasnt) so he doesnt see problems talking about it. I do talk about my past relationships but I guess I try to first find out what would be a reaction. NOT talking about it seems weird for me too, it is part of your life experience, knowing it can help you understand the person better.

What's wrong with that?

And what's up with people shunning away from discussions about relationships? Devalued Fi? (That's way more weirder to me, actually)

agree. especially with the bolded.

i talk about past relationships if it comes up. i mean drabbling on constantly about them or completely refusing to acknowledge they existed both seem sort of equally weird to me. i do try to be sensitive toward how the guy will react, and i'm not completely uninhibited about what i say. but if he wants to live in a fantasy world where i just popped into the world on the day i met him, then i take that as sort of a bad sign anyway lol.

[UDP]

I have a question for NFs


What do you look for from a relationship partner in terms of dealing with people? An NF recently said (of an SLI) that yeah, the SLI was a little gruff and not tactful, but said things that the IEE wished to say but could not (because it was so direct).

Do you relate to that?

[Suz]

I have a question for NFs


What do you look for from a relationship partner in terms of dealing with people? An NF recently said (of an SLI) that yeah, the SLI was a little gruff and not tactful, but said things that the IEE wished to say but could not (because it was so direct).

Do you relate to that?

I certainly relate to that. But generally in terms of dealing with people, i think I look for appreciation for Fi mostly. But in a delta ST way. I dont know i can't explain it. I guess just be yourself and the delta NF will like it.

[ashlesha]

I have a question for NFs


What do you look for from a relationship partner in terms of dealing with people? An NF recently said (of an SLI) that yeah, the SLI was a little gruff and not tactful, but said things that the IEE wished to say but could not (because it was so direct).

Do you relate to that?

i like how straightforward LSEs tend to be in conversation because i don't have to worry about ascertaining hidden motives or trying to figure out what they're "really" saying. it's like a weight off my shoulders.

i don't know if it's that they say "what i wished i could say" so much as give credit toward things that i might blow off too easily. like if i'm bothered by something i sometimes don't really allow myself to react to it because i feel like maybe i'm overreacting or i don't want to start conflict or something. and LSEs tend to sort of give me "permission" to feel the way i do and validate whatever it is that i'm trying to hold back.

also, if they're classically extroverted, which they usually are ime, then i appreciate having attention taken away from me and moved toward them.

[Beautiful sky]

I have a question for NFs


What do you look for from a relationship partner in terms of dealing with people? An NF recently said (of an SLI) that yeah, the SLI was a little gruff and not tactful, but said things that the IEE wished to say but could not (because it was so direct).

Do you relate to that?

They have to be polite, respectful, follow some general outwardly socially acceptable formalities, show up on time, and fulfill promises.

I don't mind a little gruffness and tactlessness as long as the person pays attention to me when I point them out that what they are doing is not acceptable; usually my X SLI would not stop to pay attention to me when I would poke him or pull his sleeve when he passed a certain mark where I knew for sure that what he was saying was going to hurt other people's emotions. My LSE cousin is a lot more attentive and responsive to me, this maybe why she and I sit next to each another all the time, because she can turn to me and get the sign that something she's said is ok or not (I know those fine lines between things that are ethical and not and I point them out).

[Suz]

i like how straightforward LSEs tend to be in conversation because i don't have to worry about ascertaining hidden motives or trying to figure out what they're "really" saying. it's like a weight off my shoulders.

i don't know if it's that they say "what i wished i could say" so much as give credit toward things that i might blow off too easily. like if i'm bothered by something i sometimes don't really allow myself to react to it because i feel like maybe i'm overreacting or i don't want to start conflict or something. and LSEs tend to sort of give me "permission" to feel the way i do and validate whatever it is that i'm trying to hold back.

also, if they're classically extroverted, which they usually are ime, then i appreciate having attention taken away from me and moved toward them.

Oh yeah along those lines, in regards to their interaction with me personally, I really appreciate how delta STs enjoy listening to what i have to say, and actually give me a chance to say it in my uneloquent way. Also they dont make me feel self-conscious about what i say and things i do that i think were clumsy or embarrassing. In one particular instance, when i had an embarrassing moment, the SLI made a joke about something completely unrelated, and it just diffused everything perfectly. But this really has included both SLIs (at least, the one SLI I've ever known) as well as LSEs in my experience.

[Marie84]

i like how straightforward LSEs tend to be in conversation because i don't have to worry about ascertaining hidden motives or trying to figure out what they're "really" saying. it's like a weight off my shoulders.

i don't know if it's that they say "what i wished i could say" so much as give credit toward things that i might blow off too easily. like if i'm bothered by something i sometimes don't really allow myself to react to it because i feel like maybe i'm overreacting or i don't want to start conflict or something. and LSEs tend to sort of give me "permission" to feel the way i do and validate whatever it is that i'm trying to hold back.

also, if they're classically extroverted, which they usually are ime, then i appreciate having attention taken away from me and moved toward them.

I find that TeSi's are a mix of strength and gentleness, courage and vulnerability, a rather non-threatening interior with a solemn exterior. It makes for an approachable person, for me at least.
I feel like they have everything under control while at the same time they're not commanding or rough like an Se ego, or at least they back off quickly when there's an indication that they're coming off that way. IMO, being tactful but gentle is utterly important when dealing with FiNe's

[Simon Ssmall]

I have a question for NFs


What do you look for from a relationship partner in terms of dealing with people? An NF recently said (of an SLI) that yeah, the SLI was a little gruff and not tactful, but said things that the IEE wished to say but could not (because it was so direct).

Do you relate to that?

I dont think I look for anything from my partner in terms of dealing with people. I can deal with them fine on my own and I dont think I need something from my partner in this regard. Surely sometimes I am being polite instead of just saying what I think, but on the other hand Im not so sure I would always apreciate someone being direct in those situations. In some cases I would, where I compromise my own goals just to be nice or whatever, in some other cases I would not, where there is indirect value for me for the way I act/say/do/whatever.

All in all, I see how someone being direct could help me, but its not something I actively seek.

[Words]

I have a question for NFs


What do you look for from a relationship partner in terms of dealing with people? An NF recently said (of an SLI) that yeah, the SLI was a little gruff and not tactful, but said things that the IEE wished to say but could not (because it was so direct).

Do you relate to that?

I think this is ultimately situational.

Rude people are generally unfavourable.

However, if someone is direct and the intention is good or at least sensible/fair in some manner (you could say is related to Fi) then that's usually fine.

It also depends on other things, for instance, if they are direct but also correct then it's fine. Someone can be gruff, not tactful, and also wrong (whether by logic or by principle).

I'm not *that* interested in someone being polite just for the sake of it, HOWEVER there's plenty gruff and non-tactful people who are just being asses.

Another thing to consider is the bond that already exists. If someone is gruff or tactless and I already like them, then i'll try to work out what's wrong, maybe just think "oh, they're only in a bad mood...just stressed etc" but if I don't like them then it often just adds to the 'reasons not to like'.

Overall, i'm not sure if any of this is type related or if everyone is like that.

So, I think that's the best I can answer for now.

[ShadesOfGrey]

I have a question for NFs


What do you look for from a relationship partner in terms of dealing with people? An NF recently said (of an SLI) that yeah, the SLI was a little gruff and not tactful, but said things that the IEE wished to say but could not (because it was so direct).

Do you relate to that?

I enjoy SLIs but I absolutely agree with that. They can be gruff and tactless, and there is just something about them you can't control- maybe it's the fact that they absolutely ignore you or blow you off when you try to put them in line. LSEs at least sit there and ask you why or how they're wrong, and even if they refuse to listen they at least give you the chance to make your case. And usually if they're good at it, they can Te you into agreeing with them with that silly almost dead-pan view of the world where feelings are inconsequential to other things. Which is always a nice side of things to see.
I find that both STs say things I would want to, and even moreso they're great at putting together the words to communicate what's actually on me mind.
As for dealing with people, I don't mind as long as they're on my side. They can get angry or upset with anyone they want for whatever reason they want- their moods that are not directed or caused by me have nothing to do with me. I'll offer comfort and try to resolve the issue, but I will not interfere.


And because relationships were mentioned earlier in this thread, I feel it important to mention as well that while being too open about past relationships is terrible, not being open enough is just as bad. Your partner should at least understand your past experiences in order to be able to avoid or correct similar mistakes. At least, that's my personal belief.

[Beautiful sky]

To ESTj's.

To truly take care of me, make sure I don't get lost in my introverted world and tell me or find a way to get me to stop overanalyzing everything. I can not be left to dwell on my thoughts and on my self for too long because then I will get depressed and focus on my short comings. I need healthy exposure to the sensory world, Si to be exact, and how you provide me with Si is take the sensory stuff and analyze it and think about it and share your findings with me by speaking to me about them and by exposing me to your stories, dissecting why you enjoy those things or not and why you should act on them or not. This causes me to come out of my introverted world and establishes equilibrium with my internal emotions. I am, as an IN type, incapable of living in the present moment; I need to be easily distracted into the present moment with the use of Si and like you did in the delta lounge, when I was overanalyzing, try to sway me on the dance floor more often, that way, I can live in the present. Do gentle activities; don't go all over the place like Se types can taking part in one present activity to another without lingering over the pleasant sensations like Si can easily help create.

[bobbybeam]

However I noticed I am different than other people in how much of focus I tend to show for this particular area and how much it can affect everything I do. As an example I can have perfect job, be successful, in everything I do, have enough money but if I am unhappy in my current relationship I will be unhappy no matter how much I achieve or how much other people feel I am lucky. In case there is no relationship I will feel lost and without direction, Ill find things to do to distract myself and be "fun and happy" but at the end of the day i will feel empty and whatever I will do will be just filling time. This example concerns really close friendships and romantic relationships. There are relatively unimportant people who can still affect how I feel on a day to day basis. I analyze people constantly, overanalyze yes, but even if I know that I dont see that changing, thats how I am, I find joy and intrigue in this. It feels good when you are correct on a lot of hunches which come out of nowhere,
At the same time, no matter how much relationships affect me, no matter how much they are important to me I am still going my way, doing my things sometimes at the expense of the said relationships. Seems self-defeating, on the other hand I cant see myself differently as this is who I am, I cant hold myself down, If I want to explore the world then Id rather do it, instead of limiting myself simply due to the fact I made this mistake once (this may not be a mistake in another context, eventually this is how it is supposed to be) when I gave up a few dreams in other to maintain certain relationships and fulfill my duties. I never want to do this again, but if I will this will be the person I will keep focusing on for a long time and hopefully a person I can drag along with me wherever my whims will take me and if not that the everyday life will be greater than any adventure I might want.

wow. so this IS normal

[bobbybeam]

Probably because those relationships were not bad, they were just not good enough for any million number of weird reasons, meaning the IEE probably wasnt hurt (or was but rationalizes he wasnt) so he doesnt see problems talking about it. I do talk about my past relationships but I guess I try to first find out what would be a reaction. NOT talking about it seems weird for me too, it is part of your life experience, knowing it can help you understand the person better.

[Minde]

Interesting thread, and my thoughts are going in different directions.

I like some of April's replies. And Mattie's.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I've realized that I possess a sort of naivety towards the more practical matters in life, which I think is party due to being less focused on them and also lacking confidence in my abilities to handle such matters in the first place. This, in conjunction with a lot of anxieties related to needing to be an independent and productive person, for survivals sake at least, while simultaneously feeling a sense of failure at both, is probably the most difficult aspect I feel that may be linked to my type, although this may be just a big projection of personal issues

Yes, so much. I would rather ignore responsibilities, but they always come back and bite me in the butt. Yet I have to address them if ever I am to become self-sufficient. Such a pain.

...One theme I'm sure I will come back to is that how, with delta NFs, I feel like something I have to help them with is more overtly addressing their own needs and wants.

Yes. Over the years, I have developed the mindset that objecting to someone's offensive behavior does no good and will be ignored by the person, so why try? Ultimately, I stew and simmer until I can take it no longer, and I explode. The thought that someone values my feelings and emotional comfort, and is even willing to listen and adapt, is... novel.

On an interesting note, I feel the same way about my ESE mother. I admire her giving spirit but feel like she doesn't put her foot down often enough.

Oh, and I agree somewhat about the catering. What I hate is people who walk on eggshells and constantly apologize "just in case". Ideally, I'll tell you if you offend me (though in practice, I don't). In the meantime, grow a backbone.

I have a question for NFs


What do you look for from a relationship partner in terms of dealing with people? An NF recently said (of an SLI) that yeah, the SLI was a little gruff and not tactful, but said things that the IEE wished to say but could not (because it was so direct).

Do you relate to that?

Haha, yes.

[Singu]

I thought Deltas were supposed to be more "independent". They don't care too much about mushiness... They don't care too much about romanticism. They are somewhat self-sufficient. Or they should be. Well, everybody should be more independent. Whatever.

[Simon Ssmall]

I thought Deltas were supposed to be more "independent". They don't care too much about mushiness... They don't care too much about romanticism. They are somewhat self-sufficient. Or they should be. Well, everybody should be more independent. Whatever.

You see mushiness and romanticism in this thread?

[Singu]

Kind of, yes.

[Simon Ssmall]

Kind of, yes.

For example?

[Park]

lol @ the direction this conversation is going.

[Galen]

I thought Deltas were supposed to be more "independent". They don't care too much about mushiness... They don't care too much about romanticism. They are somewhat self-sufficient. Or they should be. Well, everybody should be more independent. Whatever.

lol I love mushiness and I'm such a huge romantic. It's just that Fi/Te conceptions of romance and mushiness are generally more subtle and implied than their Fe/Ti counterparts.

[UDP]

I thought Deltas were supposed to be more "independent". They don't care too much about mushiness... They don't care too much about romanticism. They are somewhat self-sufficient. Or they should be. Well, everybody should be more independent. Whatever.

You know, I'd die for someone I love?
but I'd rather kill for them, to be honest

the latter seems significantly more entertaining.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

You know, I'd die for someone I love?
but I'd rather kill for them, to be honest

the latter seems significantly more entertaining.

<3

[Singu]

You can't be a great lover and a killer at the same time.