InvisibleJim, why did you choose that name for all of your forum interactions?
InvisibleJim, why did you choose that name for all of your forum interactions?
I'm currently of the position that PoLRs are more the result of forcing the creative function, where the PoLR function would be more useful or practical; because the ego is defeated if the PoLR is accepted. That said, someone that profusely uses their creative in order to avoid their PoLR is as much showing a PoLR as someone that directly avoids situations where their PoLR is most evident.Originally Posted by InvisibleJim
Yes, this stands out the most, for it's irrelevancy.This stands out the most:
"LIIs are usually lacking in outward emotional energy. LIIs may typically seem stiff, cold, rational, unresponsive to emotional concerns, and overly formal in social settings. LIIs may feel uneasy and insecure about their adaptability to social situations. They appreciate the interactive efforts of others to make them feel comfortable, at ease, and a part of the group. They tend to liven up in situations of amusement and conviviality. In situations where they feel comfortable and unconditionally accepted, they may drop their tendency towards aloofness and engage in uncharacteristic silliness.
LIIs may be highly sensitive to the signs of emotional approval that they receive from others. They may be highly appreciative of displays of emotional warmth and friendliness. They may find normative emotional expectations placed on them to be stifling, and tend to prefer nonjudgmental environments without character scrutiny. Additionally, for fear of emotional reprisal, LIIs often tend to be rather noncritical of others' actions.
LIIs may be quite susceptible to acting in accordance to the mood of others, and may undervalue the importance of avoiding argumentation on their mental well-being."
Feelin' the love right there...
*shakes head*
I never claimed to understand you but I can provide for you observations.
There is two ways of getting Jim to react to favorably to you:
1. Appeal to his logic.
2. Appeal to his values; but don't do this too much.. it'll just shit him off.
Approach him with a serious and direct manner when dealing with emotions, no spillage and no repeating yourself... most of all, don't make him repeat himself. Do not molly coddle him or show too much affection because it does seem to make him feel really uncomfortable and stressed out.
Self control and self awareness in dealing with Jim is key.
"LIIs are usually lacking in outward emotional energy. LIIs may typically seem stiff, cold, rational, unresponsive to emotional concerns, and overly formal in social settings."
This doesn't fit. Jim can be very engaging to emotional concerns.
The seeming stiff I would relate more back to cultural influences.
"LIIs may feel uneasy and insecure about their adaptability to social situations. They appreciate the interactive efforts of others to make them feel comfortable, at ease, and a part of the group. They tend to liven up in situations of amusement and conviviality. In situations where they feel comfortable and unconditionally accepted, they may drop their tendency towards aloofness and engage in uncharacteristic silliness."
Jim doesn't really have a group mentality, he's always been the outside observer looking in. I personally have found Jim to prefer conversation where there is more intellectual conversation as opposed to amusement and conviviality when it comes to group discussion. He will of course occasionally be silly, but only on his terms and when it suits him.
Although I have seen a very silly Jim sometimes xD
"LIIs may be highly sensitive to the signs of emotional approval that they receive from others. They may be highly appreciative of displays of emotional warmth and friendliness. They may find normative emotional expectations placed on them to be stifling, and tend to prefer nonjudgmental environments without character scrutiny. Additionally, for fear of emotional reprisal, LIIs often tend to be rather noncritical of others' actions."
Jim certainly does NOT appreciate me gushing all over him how much I appreciate him and adore him... but I do it anyway because fuck it, I am who I am and he's going to have to accept me for me. *stubborn*
He'll actually tell me to stop... unlike my Beta brethren who seem to lap it up. He'll often give me the eye roll and a look of 'are you done yet? OMFG would you pleeease shut up?'
Jim is also hyper critical of others' actions! To the point where I don't tell him a lot because I just don't want to be criticized. No matter how close Jim and I are at times he'll still tell me exactly what he thinks... just depending on how much I am annoying him will dictate the word usage
Though Jim may be critical he never enforces his views and opinions on others instead letting them come to their own conclusions.
Jim is also very much his own little island, needing very little interaction with the outside world. When not in a relationship he seems to throw himself into work and other little projects... and when in a relationship he'll throw himself into that... This of course makes me sad because I want to develop deeper friendship with him while he's always got his walls up and arm out so I'm never really in reach.
Any other observations you want?
As I previously said, I don't claim to know you, they are just observations... if I am wrong please correct me, I would greatly appreciate it.
As for typing, I would believe ILI is correct... to me Jim is a 'Super Gamma'... Japanese sex dungeon and all.
Apologies for not going more into specifics of typology... I don't know any where near enough to even begin trying so I am making note of behavior. Me trying to use typology would be both incorrect and I would not be able to express myself properly.
Your assumptions were based off Aleksei's questionnaire this is why I commented that his type is uncertain. Also do note that I did not use the word "ego" in reference to Ji-Si.
Since you claim to be extraverted logical type can you share the steps of your reasoning for typing yourself as ILI?
I like to share logic and reach common logical conclusions, but I'm very determined to push my own viewpoint based on the available criteria and I don't tend to compromise on issues such as how I view the ethics or purpose surrounding a situation.Since you claim to be extraverted logical type can you share the steps of your reasoning for typing yourself as ILI?
Quite frankly, my career is as an Engineer. Although I do occasionally exercise introverted logic and work out the nuts and bolts my preference is always to draw empirical correlations based on available datasets. When Te is in the Ego, Ti is available, it's just not favoured and is only picked up when there is no other choice.
This is notable in my pulling in facts from external sources such as what people might say or simple a =/= b as my most common pragmatic complaint regarding the arguments posited by others. If I can pick up a source which is tried and approved reinventing the wheel annoys me greatly however I will check the 'themes' and logic applied for consistency; which is typical of the Te mindset as long as it allows one to ignore going into the depth of the problem. The most common complaint is 'this does not match the facts'.
Purely theoretical problems cause me to kick back very angrily at the moment I've been asked to work on a purely theoretical risk analysis problem. I've already shot 900 bullet holes on the whole plan and only this morning I sent a short email saying 'it's ready, now someone else can do it and don't ask me to have further involvement with it, it's a pointless task where we are ignoring things we know because it would be inconvenient which will affect the analysis and therefore make the answers instantly bunk'. Such is the mindset of Te and the the Ti boss just thinks its a wonderful idea and can't understand the complaint because it's what the clients want and it is mathematically possible as long as the client takes responsibility for accepting the errors.
In short: Ti-Ne jizzfest between ENTp client and INTj boss is my anathema.
Te is about having a suitable level of logical consistency required to reach agreement with others that is safe for a required level of logical consistency, whatever that is, however it does demand real world relevancy. Ti also requires logical consistency, but it does not demand real world relevancy and likes to support the hunches of pleasantness Fe feeds to the user.
Last edited by InvisibleJim; 08-02-2011 at 10:08 AM.
For the simple reason that I have answered this question on umpteen forums umpteen times and also because like one of the other people on here you ascertain you have seen me elsewhere I won't repeat myself.
The point you raised as inconcistent shows a lack of detailed thought. The point is clear however if you chose to both think and read. You've seen me engage in such behaviour and yet you are stating the opposite.
Therefore you have observed it, but you do not know it, you do not understand it. It has went in one proverbial ear and out the proverbial other.
Regarding your past, you have just proven the relevancy of the what I said making. The point of the thread is to convince me of my type or perhaps, even more excitingly, convince me that I may be a different type. If I find a serious reason to doubt your capability then you have already failed, thus it is a highly relevant viewpoint to the discussion.
Your inability to be open to yourself about your past failings to allow you to critique and correct these and also, as my subtle point made, ignoring future evidence once you have made a judgement makes me unsure how seriously I can take the points you put forward because it is more work to attempt to reach a mutual understanding than it is to simply shrug and leave you 'as is' whilst maintaining interaction with better positioned individuals aside from your own critique.
What you see is someone challenging your viewpoint and therefore you are reacting. What you haven't grasped is that they are challenging the viewpoint for your benefit as well as their own. There is synergy in this.
I recommend you think more and judge when those thought processes click correctly. You will find this will come when you learn to embrace your Ni parent and understand that the restless feeling leaves when that is content. That is the time for action, because the parent is settled and the ego is not dissonant.
Last edited by InvisibleJim; 08-02-2011 at 09:17 AM.
Get her Jim, I can't hit bottleheads right now. Arghh. Haha.
If you understand the information that is used and the method you can find sensible agreement. It's not about getting anyone.
There seems to be a trend for alphas to pretend being something else and act like theyr type and the self serving fallacies are the highest priority in they life.
Why do you too hate yourself ?
*scratches head*
You what?
Good job on being unable to understand.
You can instruct us all on how to mine for fish and how VI is 'model A' later.
You are a funny guy Ashton.Your post was a fiat of sophistry trying to masquerade as "reasoning." All you did was make unsubstantiated claims and ego-stroked yourself.
Or you can look that up yourself.
I forgot who I gave my spare tinfoil to!
Sure I do, you're not my quadra by any stretch. And it is about getting everyone.
At least you've said something smart now.
You're right there.Sure I do, you're not my quadra by any stretch.
We can still say some really nasty things to people on here, don't lose hope
I think ILI is correct for InvisibleJim.
But I have to say I haven't read much of him, so I could change my mind. But so far, ILI seems ok.
Well well well
If I'm right, I'm done; if I'm wrong, then someone's gonna clean up the mess! If they don't, then I'm as good as rightThat...is a unique perspective.
Le gosh.If I'm right, I'm done; if I'm wrong, then someone's gonna clean up the mess! If they don't, then I'm as good as right
I don't see how your INTj boss could have risen to the position of being your boss if he didn't check what he does for "real world relevancy", in other words you're attributing something to Ti that it is not. From your other replies you do show a preference for deductive thinking style and signs of mobilizing Fi which is in accord with ILI typing.
The Peter Principle - Everyone rises to the level of their incompetence.I don't see how your INTj boss could have risen to the position of being your boss if he didn't check what he does for "real world relevancy", in other words you're attributing something to Ti that it is not. From your other replies you do show a preference for deductive thinking style and signs of mobilizing Fi which is in accord with ILI typing.
I disagree, he is clearly Ni-valuing.
lol
Cause he types INTJ in MBTI amirite?
ILI (FINAL ANSWER)
There was a discussion on another forum where he demonstrated himself to be capable of thinking in paradoxes. He lacks the rigid internal Ti-frameworks of LIIs.
Clever dancer. Which one was that?There was a discussion on another forum where he demonstrated himself to be capable of thinking in paradoxes. He lacks the rigid internal Ti-frameworks of LIIs.
Ni Paradox: Have you realised yet that Introvert Intuition itself is paradoxical in description of its function?
Last edited by InvisibleJim; 08-04-2011 at 10:47 AM. Reason: More Discussion
I don't remember now as it was some months ago, but I remember your forum name since you're using the same one across multiple forums. If I find it I'll post it up.
I don't remember now as it was some months ago, but I remember your forum name since you're using the same one across multiple forums. If I find it I'll post it up.
Do you have a hard time admitting when you're wrong, Siuntal?
I agree with Siuntal, I merely wished to know where I was 'noted'.
Do you randomly enter threads and attack posters without attempting to deal with the OP? Have you considered that this says more about you than others?
Time for action? I suggest you take your own advice on that.The point you raised as inconcistent shows a lack of detailed thought. The point is clear however if you chose to both think and read. You've seen me engage in such behaviour and yet you are stating the opposite.
Therefore you have observed it, but you do not know it, you do not understand it. It has went in one proverbial ear and out the proverbial other.
Regarding your past, you have just proven the relevancy of the what I said making. The point of the thread is to convince me of my type or perhaps, even more excitingly, convince me that I may be a different type. If I find a serious reason to doubt your capability then you have already failed, thus it is a highly relevant viewpoint to the discussion.
Your inability to be open to yourself about your past failings to allow you to critique and correct these and also, as my subtle point made, ignoring future evidence once you have made a judgment makes me unsure how seriously I can take the points you put forward because it is more work to attempt to reach a mutual understanding than it is to simply shrug and leave you 'as is' whilst maintaining interaction with better positioned individuals aside from your own critique.
What you see is someone challenging your viewpoint and therefore you are reacting. What you haven't grasped is that they are challenging the viewpoint for your benefit as well as their own. There is synergy in this.
I recommend you think more and judge when those thought processes click correctly. You will find this will come when you learn to embrace your Ni parent and understand that the restless feeling leaves when that is content. That is the time for action, because the parent is settled and the ego is not dissonant.
Last edited by bionic; 08-05-2011 at 02:15 AM.
Based on what I've read about your understanding in this thread I'd be hesitant to question your self-typing atm, at the very least it should be evident that you don't come across as being put-off by Se
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
Seeing no contradiction in contradictions? No paradox of the paraxodes? Is that what you're hinting at?
First give analysis on where you think that I am wrong. Common, you can do it
Just because I recognize your name on other forums doesn't mean I bother to read the posts on those other forums. You spend more time arguing with people than getting to any kind of point on typology central. You also assumed I was interested in a rational answer to the question, when I was not; no rather, I asked that question because, being that you identify as Ni-leading, I wanted to know what Ni-imagery and symbolic relationships you held toward that name. Apparently there isn't any.For the simple reason that I have answered this question on umpteen forums umpteen times and also because like one of the other people on here you ascertain you have seen me elsewhere I won't repeat myself.
These questions are too wide to define, if I were to answer it and do so timely, people would believe I just copypasta'd out of something. Regardless I have discussed Fe PoLR vs Se PoLR earlier in the thread.
Introverted intuition is the art of perceiving from inside the idea to find the boundaries of the idea thus making it external to the idea! The individuals mind both sinks into the idea space yet keeps enough distance to find the flaws. Brilliant!Seeing no contradiction in contradictions? No paradox of the paraxodes? Is that what you're hinting at?
Why would I discuss such things with you? To assume is to make an ass of you and me.Just because I recognize your name on other forums doesn't mean I bother to read the posts on those other forums. You spend more time arguing with people than getting to any kind of point on typology central. You also assumed I was interested in a rational answer to the question, when I was not; no rather, I asked that question because, being that you identify as Ni-leading, I wanted to know what Ni-imagery and symbolic relationships you held toward that name. Apparently there isn't any.
What does "being put off by Se" look like in contrast?
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
LOLDefensive about our opinions aren't we?
Okay let me educate you. There can be several Se Super-id types are inertia-driven with regards to sensate activities. However you will note that they will always be reactionary negative to spontaneous/unexpected sensate changes.
So whiplash is a highly appropriate summary of the situation.
Sorry if I just Ni jizzed on your monitor.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Incorrect, I'm not looking for opinions; I'm looking for logical deductions regarding type. If we base our analyses on whether one 'prefers' blue or 'prefers' red, then it is a futile exercise.
If you wish to demand that others have no right to challenge your logical deductions then I recommend you pull the cable out the back of your internet router and back away slowly from the internet.
His comment is Se/Fi valuing.
LOLOLOLOL
I recommend you read the following:
Woops. I believe you've just came up short as a knowledgeable person regarding differentiating Nx vs Sx and it's position in the psyche. I recommend selling warbonds and spend that consumer surplus on improving your understanding. This isn't a newbie error, it's a complex one and thus I do not blame you for making it. The introverted perceiving functions are notoriously difficult to discombogulate.
My mommy is ILI type and inertia is very type related to her type.
I love introverting with her and loving her. I guess relating every thing externally back into "MY RELATIONSHIP" is Fi too.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I doubt it. Considering it simple suggests potential overlooking. "Infinite" particular cases with particular characteristics in an issue which is not falsifiable.
Probably sarcasm in bolded, but sarcasm usually emerges from common/particular ideas with an external or internal emotional attachment, ie, the opposite of being objective. Why "more exclusive than suggested"? it could be or it could not be, but how to measure it?To earn a place in the Ni dominant seat(which is much more exclusive than suggested by typology forums) one must be constantly seeking highly individualised external environments to the point of madness to the onlooker...
The rest is simply the "definition" of being introverted, nothing exclusive of Ni doms. But if you want to consider them the most introverted I have to disagree. Basically because this is a too subjective question for being properly answered, and because my particular subjective impression is the opposite. The most introverted individuals I have observed IRL and forums tend to manifest J behavior and thought patters, which favors LIIs, more if Ti sub.
Completely disagree. This is again a question of introversion and the way you describe it is much more related to being a enneagram 5 than an ILI. That "Se rejection" seems like withdrawn -> E5 (and not only, but probably the most extreme).It is the nature of the Ni dominant to seek an 'individual' frontier. To be Ni dominant is to seek rejection of Se. Se is a function driven to relate in the moment to sensory input from individuals around you. Ni is the opposite, it seeks to expel individuals around you to free up mind space.
To locate the Ni dominant look for the individual who is willing to push their friends away for space often for extended periods of time and also to travel totally against societal grain in doing so.
And anti-Se is Se-PoLR, ie, LII not ILI.
Another behavioral patterns which could have multiple different causes.This is true of all Ni dominants. We are incredibly fickle and particular beasts and you can see that it is 'borderline' present in the Ni 2nds, the ENxJs.
More of the same.What you tend to find is that Ni dominants are both 'early adopters' and 'early leavers' and can also be frictional in doing so. The mindset of Ni is such that it is actively resentful that others have encroached on it's intellectual and psychological head space.
LOL Jim. Everybody wants to be a Ni dom? And everybody except Ni doms try to justify what they "really are not"?? C'mon. In fact there is a lot of self-confirmation bias and argumentation in users who are still more likely Ni doms, and this happens for almost any type, specially if they have "desirable characteristics".What I tend to find on Typology forums is 'weak Ni counter-rationalisation' from many members of typology boards to label themselves with a more 'favourable' in their view type because they feel organised and thus J and mystical and thus Ni... really, come on.
For example, until now I've seen only a collection of supposed Ni properties which are most likely non Ni related (or not directly related). This is the most typical way of self-confirmation bias: "I have this set of characteristics, I am Ni, therefore these are Ni properties...".
I would like to read something more consistent about what Ni is for you.
This sentence stablishes a false correlation. Defining an element as paradoxical does not justify/prove that such element is in fact the "true pardox manager".
About this question, paradoxes, I think the paradoxical skills of Ni are "a bit" overrated, the same way the formal logic skills of Ti are overrated. I mean, those processes due to their nature may very well be the most useful for dealing with such concepts, but there's a trend for stablishing a correlation between that behavior and types which is far from being objective. Like or you are an "Homo Paradoxum" or you aren't an Ni ego; similar to or you are an "Homo Logicus" or you aren't a Ti ego.
There's a full set of gradation in such skill and the external manifestation of it. A non Ti ego could have stronger skill in logic and manifest a stronger "Ti behavior" than a Ti ego, and the same for Ni. The most which could be affirmed is that the average Ti ego > the average non Ti ego, and the same for Ni.
Non Ni egos can't think in paradoxes? Like saying non Ti egos can't solve math problems. This sentence is false. And inmediately some forum users gone mad... I do not say that you've affirmed this, it's only a critique against what seems to be a too strong correlation.
Logic, paradoxes, etc, all of this are concrete manifestations of processes in brain, that amazing dynamic organic machine (and if the brain is dynamic there could not be real static users, only apparent ones
Probably some users would want to kill me, but regardless what model A says/suggests, a 50% sensor/intuitor or logic/ethic is possible. And this is clear looking at the real brain and understanding functions as the conventions they really are. User X is an intuitor XOR user X is a sensor is a fallacy. The physical frontier between green and blue is arbitrary.
Last edited by ssss; 08-26-2011 at 12:55 PM.
Yes, this is all very well and good, but you are overspecifying most of it to the point that it is no longer safe to the level of accuracy of what you say it does.In his office chewing his penlid and reads Mens post and tries to make any sense of it whatsoever
Also, no, Se-defensive/rejecting and reacting to changes in Se is Se inferior in Jungs books and also position 3 in Model A. Of course this type of behaviour is notable within both aspects of the Super-Ego! It's an excellent point you are making, but I just ain't ILE budd.
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