EIIs/INFjs making snarky comments and ridiculing

[meatburger]

And anyone who calls you dumb has some issues and I wouldn't want to be around them.

It doesn't really offend me at all. He is a social retard.

This thread only applies to Ne subtypes.
And they don't really have strong Fi.

I believe that. I would guess Ne subtype for them both even though i dont agree with subtypes much. I would love to meet an Fi subtype one.

[Smilingeyes]

Though I have to admit that the strong Fi types sometimes, occasionally do this too, but the only situation in which I've encountered it with them is if and when I boast. Even if the boasting is about something true and something of which I feel I'm rightfully proud. But I don't mind losing pride. It's all good.

[Cheesy]

These guys need some boundaries .. If you find it funny go along with it but if it gets to the point that you're sick of it just do/say something that disrupts them by showing them how lame and immature they are behaving. Sometimes people are so caught up in their behavioral patterns that they can't see what's underneath it.

I have an INFj-Fi friend and I have to say that it's rare to find people who are that genuine and reliable; she seems really fragile but it's really misleading, she's like a fortress of strength and optimism

[Minde]

So why do they do it? This is only guys i have observed mind you but ive seen it in three of them. They can be snarky and will call you ugly and stuff like that. It actually annoys me greatly because i personally never ever ever pay out anyone. Yet they are supposedly stronger in than i am? Plus, they cannot take it in return. If you give them shit back they really take it to heart? I think part of the problem is my own strong Fi means that it annoys me when someone does this where other types might just see it as funny.

I personally see it as a sign of insecurity and unhealthiness but perhaps there is some other explanation?

I don't know if this'll help, but I can describe how it works for me. If/when I make fun of someone, it's usually because I think they're either wrong or somehow getting ahead of themselves. That's my more "serious" mocking. Then there're times when I laugh at someone, but it's more of a with them sort of thing, more of a silly sharing thing and perhaps might not even be considered making fun.

An example of the first kind might be like what Ritella said to ArchonAlarion in the big flame war thing thread, where he gave statistics on how bad he thought the forum was, and she asked how much of that came from him. Ritella's comment was basically making fun of him for being wrong (in her perception) in a sort of sideways, cleverish way. I personally got a good chuckle out of it, largely because I also tend to think that ArchonAlarion is not only a little off in his socionics thinking but a little caustic, too. I found it funny because I shared her perspective; it was the same sort of thing that I might have thought to myself, though probably not actually said. If my opinion of ArchonAlarion had been different, then I might not have found it as funny. Other examples of that can happen IRL like when discussing (or listening to a discussion of) politics, where I might hear someone say something that I think is uninformed or just straight up silly and then make a sarcastic comment about it (usually just to myself).

Which brings up something else - When I'm mocking like that, it's usually to either try to stop the person who I'm laughing at (by bringing the absurdity to their attention) or just an expression of amusement to myself. I'm not as likely to try to make fun of someone to make the people around me laugh. I'd have to think really lowly of the person and be really needing people-attention to do something like that to any great degree. Not that I think it's wrong to make people laugh, just that it's not something I do under normal circumstances. Plus, like Sereno said, I don't like the idea of subjecting a person to group humiliation.

I really haven't done this type of mocking much at all on this forum. Not blatantly, anyway. One of the main times I can think of is way back when I lost patience with Dee. But even that was relatively minor (though I still feel twinges of guilt over it).

An example of the second kind, the softer and more friendly kind of mocking, might be like when my brother is talking with the family about his bungee jumping experience and I might chip in something about him being insane. A distinction is that in that case, my brother knows I love him even if he chooses different recreational activities than I and that I don't really think he's actually insane. But, again, I'm not sure if that's even really the same thing that you're talking about.

As for outrightly calling someone dumb or ugly - No. For one thing, I don't usually even think like that. For another... I'm not sure how to explain it, but no.

Hm, that's long, but I hope it's useful.

I don't like making fun of people, unless they are friends, and unless the other person finds it funny as well. I also don't like "mob" laughter towards somebody, where everyone laughs save for the person being made fun at. The only reason I would laugh a bit at someone else's "misfortune" is to help them not take it so seriously, which I think everyone naturally does, and try to find the humor in the bad. What you are describing is behavior that I would have done maybe back in early high school, and seems immature.

Yeah. Except, I've never been able to get the hang of laughing with someone at their misfortunes. Usually my normal reaction is, " *pat on shoulder*" and an awkward silence while I try to think of some way to help fix the situation.

Ive got this dream of the INFj being this really nice and kind person who i can talk to and who cares about others. It just seems to me that the ones i know are too caught up in their own problems.

Hm, I'm not really what you'd call a warm cuddly always-welcoming-to-all person. I care about everyone on a sort of general level, and I'll try to be polite and reasonably considerate to all. But I can't be drawn into everybody's hearts and lives - it's just way too draining. Also, sometimes I just don't seem to have enough warm fuzzies in me to "soften" things I do or say. For some people, anyway.

Sometimes people are so caught up in their behavioral patterns that they can't see what's underneath it.

Yeah, I can get that way, I think. Where I don't always see the effect I'm having on people. So it's good to get feedback.

[1981slater]

I say my American friend here can help you all solve your problems with

[Ritella]

An example of the first kind might be like what Ritella said to ArchonAlarion in the big flame war thing thread, where he gave statistics on how bad he thought the forum was, and she asked how much of that came from him. Ritella's comment was basically making fun of him for being wrong (in her perception) in a sort of sideways, cleverish way. I personally got a good chuckle out of it, largely because I also tend to think that ArchonAlarion is not only a little off in his socionics thinking but a little caustic, too. I found it funny because I shared her perspective; it was the same sort of thing that I might have thought to myself, though probably not actually said. If my opinion of ArchonAlarion had been different, then I might not have found it as funny.

[The Greeter]

First of all, I agree with a lot of what Ritella, Sereno and Minde has said except:

The only reason I would laugh a bit at someone else's "misfortune" is to help them not take it so seriously, which I think everyone naturally does, and try to find the humor in the bad.

I would respond the way Minde would if someone were to tell me their misfortunes, but I think you mean that you would try to cheer them up rather than laugh at their misfortunes to help them not take it so seriously.

Secondly, please stop blaming all the 'negative' characteristics of INFjs/EIIs to the Ne-subtype. How can you say they have no 'Fi' when because of their Fi they are INFj? In your experience it might be true that all Ne-INFjs behave in such an ill-mannered way, but for Ne-INFjs who don't behave this way, it just makes them feel unnecessarily bad.

Thirdly, meatburger, maybe this particular INFj just does not feel the need to be tactful around you, assuming he is INFj. Are you close friends? For me, I am usually quite tactful in what I say and do around strangers or those I am not particularly close with. But with close friends and family, I am not so much mainly because I feel comfortable around them and I know that, despite my lack of tact, what I say won't be misinterpreted as something malicious backed with bad intentions.

On the other hand, I find what your friend says a bit too extreme but we are different people. Maybe you can tell him what you think too.

[meatburger]

Thirdly, meatburger, maybe this particular INFj just does not feel the need to be tactful around you, assuming he is INFj. Are you close friends? For me, I am usually quite tactful in what I say and do around strangers or those I am not particularly close with. But with close friends and family, I am not so much mainly because I feel comfortable around them and I know that, despite my lack of tact, what I say won't be misinterpreted as something malicious backed with bad intentions.

Both of these guys want to be closer friends with me and i want to be with both of them. They both really like me im sure of that. That is interesting that you feel like you dont need to be tactful to your friends. I dont actually take what they say as malicious that would be too strong, just highly annoying. I know that things can be better because maybe 35% of the time we connect and just have pure fun and they seem in a good mood and really nice. I dunno i just dont understand sarcasm im not a fan of it i suppose. It just appears pathetic to me.

I mostly blame this stuff on the sort EIIs who think they're on top and the other guy is not. While they often do have bragging rights, an EII with an ego is not pretty.

I think your post actually summed up perfectly how i see it aswell. I do agree it appears like they are coming across as elitist. In fact ive heard one of them describe how strong his ego is. Both of them also have alluded to how intelligent they are. The thing is i dont know why either of these people would feel elite. They dont appear to have anything to feel elite about right at the moment so to me its all an act.

Perhaps i should try to do something and see if i can help by telling them. Before i said something i would want to be sure that them acting like that doesn't attract their dual or something. Its what friends are for isn't it? And i would have another good friend

[Smilingeyes]

Secondly, please stop blaming all the 'negative' characteristics of INFjs/EIIs to the Ne-subtype. How can you say they have no 'Fi' when because of their Fi they are INFj? In your experience it might be true that all Ne-INFjs behave in such an ill-mannered way, but for Ne-INFjs who don't behave this way, it just makes them feel unnecessarily bad.

It is not an objectively negative characteristic. There are plenty of people who think what is described in this thread is fun, and who are motivated by this kind of input to try even more and become better persons in regard of the relationship.

Also, INFj-Fi have strong Fi. INFj-Ne when compared to them have weaker Fi, at most a decent amount of it, though still stronger than ISTjs of course. But it's model A foolery to think that every person that socionics calls INFj or ISFj is actually particularly strong in Fi. This wrong idea got from model A has destroyed the image of Fi that many forum participants have of the function. THey observe someone like Diana and start thinking that, oh, gee, there's a Fi dominant. Despite that that person acts completely Se and doesn't have a smidgen of Fi that must be what Fi is like. To think that creative subtypes of INFjs and ISFjs have strong Fi is harmful and destructive. This forum has plenty of people claiming to have Fi who don't have enough of it to fill a thimble.

Also, they are making their own choice of acting like this and people need to hear honest answers about how others react to their behaviour, that is what this forum is about. If someone doesn't like the input they get for their behaviour, they might want to get different company, or change their behaviour.