I want to know the difference between an SLE 6 (like Anthony Hopkins for example) and an SLE 8 (like Marlon Brando).
Perhaps SLE-Tis are more likely to be 6s, and SLE-Ses are more likely to be 8s, although this is by no means all-encompassing.
I want to know the difference between an SLE 6 (like Anthony Hopkins for example) and an SLE 8 (like Marlon Brando).
Perhaps SLE-Tis are more likely to be 6s, and SLE-Ses are more likely to be 8s, although this is by no means all-encompassing.
When I hesitate between E6 and E8, I admit that both E6 and E8 are depressive types, but E6 is an anxious type. E8 isn't.Originally Posted by Ezra
What do you mean by 'depressive' and 'anxious'? Are you talking about everyday usage of the terms or in reference to some kind of dichotomy or socionics explanation?
No. I'm talking of physiological properties (i.e. neurochemical levels) that are correlated to, but independant from socionics.Originally Posted by Ezra
According to an enneagram theorist, types 468 are depressive, and types 567 are anxious. You should read this thread for more information : http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14540
Interesting. 4s, 6s and 8s are in the Reactive triad in the Enneagram, so that would make sense. 5s, 6s and 7s are all Head types.
Don't know what all that shit about maths you were churning out was though.
all SLEs are 9w3 by definition.
MARLON BRANDO IS AN SLE YOU FUCKING HERETIC AGHHHRHRHRHRHGHGHGHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I do think Marlon Brando was SLE, but 7w8 rather than 8.
And I don't think a SLE can be a 6, counterphobic or not.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
Far enough if he was cited as an 8w7, but he wasn't. He was cited as an 8w9. And there's no mistaking 8w9 and 7w8.Originally Posted by Expat
Then Mike Tyson is not an SLE. Anthony Hopkins is not an SLE either.And I don't think a SLE can be a 6, counterphobic or not.
Why do you not think SLEs can be 6s?
SLE is more 7-ish than 8-ish, because Sevens are impulsive by their nature. They are mostly dominants.Originally Posted by Expat
cp6, as they have high norepinephrine levels, Irrational Sixes are rather scarce, because of low stress tolerance. (Although I have a case of a 6-IEE, but is he rather 8 or 4 ?)
In MBTT, yes. But the emphasis on power in socionics makes Se much more 8-related.SLE is more 7-ish than 8-ish, because Sevens are impulsive by their nature. They are mostly dominants.
Cp6s are irrational.cp6, as they have high norepinephrine levels, Irrational Sixes are rather scarce, because of low stress tolerance.
A NeFi 8? Can't see it. Perhaps 4, but that's still tough to see.(Although I have a case of a 6-IEE, but is he rather 8 or 4 ?)
Even if you are right about the possible relation between Se and type 8, the most typical 8 is not an SLE for the reasons mentioned by machintruc. And SLEs are definitely much more impulsive than LIEs -- in Socionics too. Every serious socionist knows that. Just a little example of what I'm talking about:Originally Posted by Ezra
http://www.socionics.us/celebrities/lsi.shtmlOriginally Posted by Rick
Wrong logic - if SLEs are more impulsive than LSIs that does not mean SLEs are more impulsive than LIEs.Originally Posted by Phaedrus
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Correct. It doesn't follow. I should have limited my statement to the claim that SLEs are in fact impulsive and improvising in general. But, as you know, Ezra has been hesitating between SLE and LIE, and he almost seems to think that SLEs are just as orderly as LIEs and that LIEs are just as impulsive as SLEs. You and Ezra can be the same type; have you explained to him the reasons why you have thought you were one or the other?Originally Posted by FDG
Phaedrus, out of interest, which type do you think fits 8 best?Originally Posted by Phaedrus
This kind of thing points away from me for SLE. I am not impulsive. Nor am I particularly good at improvisation. A good example of this was when I was in a club yesterday. My mate told me to get in and dance with this group of girls and I told him to wait and see what they looked like before taking action. To him, pussy is pussy (or he's simply impulsive). To me, quality matters.Originally Posted by Phaedrus
Yes, please do, Fabio. I'm still interested.Originally Posted by Phaedrus
LIE. Every LIE I know in real life (I know a few, and I am certain of their socionic type in case you wonder about that) is clearly an 8. The SLEs I know (I know a few of them too) are probably not 8s, and even if one or two of them really are 8s, that is not at all obvious.Originally Posted by Ezra
What makes you think they are 6?Originally Posted by Ezra
Because their motivations and fears do not seem consistent with those of 6s at all.Originally Posted by Ezra
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
In Enneagram circles, they're both cited as 6s. To differentiate between Tyson as an 8 and as a 6, Ali, an 8w7 is used. He shows that Tyson is a 6. I don't exactly know how, because I haven't looked at the two boxers in depth.Originally Posted by Expat
I know the SLE's motivations are based around conquering territory (which, yes, you're right, are inconsistent with a 6's), but what are their fears?Originally Posted by Ezra
If you don't even know why Tyson should be a 6, then you have a very feeble base to make statements like "he can't be a SLE".Originally Posted by Ezra
I'd say that it's fear of not really having what it takes, in terms of their abilities in non-Se areas; of their being exposed as fraud in those areas, and of having a life with no greater meaning.Originally Posted by Ezra
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I don't see how that isn't compatible with a 6.Originally Posted by Expat
As far as it goes, it is, ok. But are 6's main motivations really those of the SLE?Originally Posted by Ezra
Also, it's a big part of 6's fears to be left without someone to give support and loyalty to the 6 - those are hardly compatible with SLE as a major fear.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
Well, a cp6 might be afraid of being exposed for cowardice, for example, which is why they take the counterphobic stance in the first place.Originally Posted by Expat
However, concerning
Abilities are perhaps also related to the cp6, especially if you consider this:
SourceOriginally Posted by Eli Jaxon-Bear
Certainly it talks about Se to some extent, but there is stuff to do with Fi there (sex).
True.Also, it's a big part of 6's fears to be left without someone to give support and loyalty to the 6 - those are hardly compatible with SLE as a major fear.
FTR, I think the SLE's fears are more compatible with 8w7 than 7w8.
Just read up that 6 and 8 have one important distinguishment - 6's aggression is that of feeling like a victim, while the aggressive 8 would never label themselves as such.
8 prevents through attacking, while 6 is in a reactionary position to threat.
That's why SLEs aren't typically sixes.
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
This is the only comment of Expat's in this thread that I'm in disagreement with. I think with Fi polr and the issue of personal/emotional connections being very hot/cold, issues with people, groups, and loyalty can indeed be cornerstone anxiety-inducing fears or problems in the life of an SLE.
Case in point. I agree.
@Viktor Any thoughts?
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
I have seen this concern for loyalty and support in SLE's myself.
I belong to an Astronomy club, and one of the members is a great guy who is an SLE. I've always liked and kind of supported him in the background, and I've been amazed sometimes at the vehemence he shows in supporting or talking me up to other members. One part of my surprise at this is the fact that LIE's don't really expect to be liked, but what he does is above and beyond. I've always attributed his loyalty to the idea that he can't tell very well when people like him, so when someone clearly shows that they do like him, he jumps on that.
In another case, I work with an SLE, and I have noticed that when he is feeling threatened about his job security (like, he thinks there might not be enough work for him - he doesn't realize where the money comes from), he can get sensitive about whether people say Hi to him when he greets them. I know that anyone could do this in these circumstances, but he seems more sensitive than most.
I'm used to the Fe-PoLR behavior of ILI's, who basically tell you to f**k off on first meeting, and if you ignore that and stick around and show them that you actually like them, you are good, so the Fi-PoLR behavior of SLE's was not too much of a change for me to deal with. But then, I have Fe-role and some Fi, and am an SLE's Benefactor, which sort of turns out to give me some kind of limited pass that others might not get.
That's so cool!
I've always attributed his loyalty to the idea that he can't tell very well when people like him, so when someone clearly shows that they do like him, he jumps on that.I'm like this lol. I have some constant focus or awareness of "So" issues like this, which could be part Fe HA / Fi polr, so it's been hard for me to get a sense of which stacking I am for a while, because of the interplay of all these things. ( @Cassandra @Chae -- and yup I'm working on the enneagram quiz soon! )he can get sensitive about whether people say Hi to him when he greets them. I know that anyone could do this in these circumstances, but he seems more sensitive than most.
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
I agree with Viktor there, a lot of SLEs are actually Counterphobic 6s.
Two examples I can think of at the top of my head:
Ronda Rousey (CP 6) vs The Hodge Twins (8).
They both look very similar (in vibe and presentation, I mean )
I'd argue that both Ronda and the Twins are Sx/Sp and the Justice Fighter (683) Tritype.
However, there are a few differences.
Ronda Rousey is very much driven by fear; read up on some quotes and her book, she's written about having to overcome her fears and so forth before. She also goes out of her way to look intimidating and strong, which is a Counterphobic mechanism: frighten the others so that they won't frighten you.
The Hodge Twins also care about looking strong, and sometimes play with intimidation, but for them it is more of a joke."People say to me all the time, 'You have no fear.' I tell them, 'No, that's not true. I'm scared all the time. You have to have fear in order to have courage. I'm a courageous person because I'm a scared person.'"
They are rather fearless. Neither going actively against fear, nor trying to run away from it.