On the Victim + Aggressor Relationship

[aka-kitsune]

lots of dumb helpless infps.

Unnecessary roughness: 2-minute penalty.

[shakealittle]

So will victims generally try to test their aggressor and try to act coy as a means to sustain interest? Is this due to some insecurity on their part? They need to be reassured?

[Mediator Kam]

massive bump my love.

For your question, I cannot answer, sorry.

[redbaron]

So will victims generally try to test their aggressor and try to act coy as a means to sustain interest? Is this due to some insecurity on their part? They need to be reassured?

They/we do act coy. I think it's because we want to be sure we're really wanted and not just being toyed with or chosen as the woman du jour.

[unefille]

So will victims generally try to test their aggressor and try to act coy as a means to sustain interest? Is this due to some insecurity on their part? They need to be reassured?

I wrote this about Beta courtship styles yesterday:

In a sense, we're looking at the world as a combat and you want your partner to be the strongest person there alongside you. So it's like you're always testing people - and if they're not right, then you keep them at arms length because you want to shield them from yourself, as well as shield yourself from them because trusting someone who isn't strong enough to handle you is like going into battle badly armed.

I don't know if I'm coy so much as I am deliberately playing with people sometimes. It can be a bit perverse, I guess, but I will go hot-and-cold; I will want to see someone and then I suddenly won't; I'll say something nice and then withdraw again. It's like a dance - moving closer, moving away, light touches followed by pulling away again. If I had to pin it down, I would say that I'm testing their decisiveness. I want someone who isn't easily confused, who is certain in their pursuit, who is decisive. Who is steady and patient in getting what they set out to achieve. And all the coy behaviour, the tests, the game-playing of it all is just to test their mettle. It's a way of preventing me from ending up with someone who doesn't have the qualities I'm looking look, I'd say.

[FDG]

I don't relate at all to this style of romance, even if I am a victim (nothing against you idolatrie, I'm just trying to show that grouping all the victim-aggressor relationships in a single category doesn't work).

[idolatrie]

I don't relate at all to this style of romance, even if I am a victim (nothing against you idolatrie, I'm just trying to show that grouping all the victim-aggressor relationships in a single category doesn't work).

Yeah, no, I thought I was pretty way off base. And honestly, I'm not sure I even know what style of romance works for me since I can't say I've ever been in an emotionally satisfying relationship with a guy. *shrugs*

How would you describe a style of romance that works for you? Maybe it would be easier for you to contrast Gamma with Beta victim/aggressor rather than just having Beta speculating on it.

[FDG]

Well I offer:

- Initiative-taking behavior
- A reasonable capacity for gathering information and producing new ideas
- A decent sense of humor
- A lot of energy to get tasks done

What I need (I don't purposefully look for these qualities but that's what I have noticed):

- Prompt responses to my initiative-taking behavior: I am not slow-and-steady-win-the-race; so I wouldn't stand a "victim" trying to "test" me: I would just drop it because I'd think they didn't like me. In this sense, I need no ambiguity in what the other person is feeling.
- A person that isn't too strong or emotionally hardy: the more somebody is hardy towards me, the more I become hardy towards them. Instead, if somebody is gentle and easy-going, I become more gentle and easy-going.
- Somebody that does for me some things that I always forget about doing; usually it's some paperwork that is absolutely necessary for the bureucratic part of something. I can do many things and work a lot, but I don't necessarily like to revise everything I do multiple times. Somebody that is naturally attuned to taking care of these details would be nice.

Now I am of the opinion that much of what is said about the rational pairs of resolute quadras has a lot to do with their base function. For example, how an ENFj seeks for somebody which is strong: that's not Se-seeking, that's Ti-seeking. In this sense, you will not find any commonality between this part of mate-seeking behavior of a Beta NF and the mate-seeking behavior of, say, an ENTj - the latter will be inclined to look for Fi because at the end of the day their base function is still extraverted thinking.

[ladyinred]

I'm generally attracted to slightly femminine girls (at least in the relationship roles sense) so it's usually not a problem. There's some unspoken rule of attraction in my opinion, that makes two similar poles repel.

Baby: I don't know, why then all the Se-creative girls I've dated behaved that way? Shouldn't have they hunt my cock down with a knife?
In any case yes the bar scene is where that problem reaches its apex but it's actually pretty widespread.

i second the bolded question, is this or is this not the way of ISXjs??

Anyway, why do you people think what I posted is Se? Wouldnt a Se person be less straighforward and more concerned about keeping the upper hand?

again, i second this

So will victims generally try to test their aggressor and try to act coy as a means to sustain interest? Is this due to some insecurity on their part? They need to be reassured?

?

[jessica129]

That's why I generally don't identify with Agressor much. Not to sound full of myself, but I think it's because I've never had to try. Any guy I've ever wanted has felt the same way. I just strategically place myself in situations that makes one thing lead to another. It's so easy. I guess if it weren't easy for me, I'd have to actually try. I sound so full of myself. Just stating facts.

[EyeSeeCold]

?

Are you asking?

I can't speak for my subconscious, but on the surface, I know I "torture" my victims to induce feelings if they don't already have some for me. This can go on even to the point of even anger. I have to take things slowly, I need intense experiences first before I could enter something as grand as a relationship. Otherwise I wouldn't "feel it" and I wouldn't care much for neither the person nor the relationship.

The powerplay is less controllable though, it's a spontaneous thing. They give and show and I take and hide.

[Singu]

There's no real such thing as romantic erotic attitudes... it's all just HYPE. At least, not to the extent people are usually expecting. You can not say, how a type wants to be loved, or how a type will love, because everybody is different. Everybody has completely different approaches to love, romance, and relationships. And even that dynamic may change during their lifetime, due to having had some changes in themselves. There seems to be some sort of an extremely generalized pattern of a person's overall way of behaving in the "erotic attitudes", but I don't really think that it has anything to do with romantic relationships or love life.

[Satan]

I wrote this about Beta courtship styles yesterday:



I don't know if I'm coy so much as I am deliberately playing with people sometimes. It can be a bit perverse, I guess, but I will go hot-and-cold; I will want to see someone and then I suddenly won't; I'll say something nice and then withdraw again. It's like a dance - moving closer, moving away, light touches followed by pulling away again. If I had to pin it down, I would say that I'm testing their decisiveness. I want someone who isn't easily confused, who is certain in their pursuit, who is decisive. Who is steady and patient in getting what they set out to achieve. And all the coy behaviour, the tests, the game-playing of it all is just to test their mettle. It's a way of preventing me from ending up with someone who doesn't have the qualities I'm looking look, I'd say.

I like that kind of behaviour. Although it doesn't mean I like the person who exhibits that kind of behaviour ...

[redbaron]

I'll say something nice and then withdraw again. It's like a dance - moving closer, moving away, light touches followed by pulling away again. If I had to pin it down, I would say that I'm testing their decisiveness. I want someone who isn't easily confused, who is certain in their pursuit, who is decisive. Who is steady and patient in getting what they set out to achieve. And all the coy behaviour, the tests, the game-playing of it all is just to test their mettle. It's a way of preventing me from ending up with someone who doesn't have the qualities I'm looking look, I'd say.

I think that to some extent, I do this even with friendships. I don't think it's even conscious though. There's this SLE that I've gotten to be friends with after a long drawn out thing such as this. It's been over 2 years now and I finally consider us real friends. I wasn't sure of him at first (he's an E-3 and I felt at first that I may have been just part of his larger plan to know everyone and be generally well-liked) but he's been completely solid and patient, ever ready to respond to me when I indicate that I want a response but never pushy. And now I trust him. Of course with friendship the stakes aren't as high and it can take longer without anyone getting frustrated or annoyed. But looking back, I can see that this was much the way things played out for us.

[Satan]

I think that to some extent, I do this even with friendships. I don't think it's even conscious though. There's this SLE that I've gotten to be friends with after a long drawn out thing such as this. It's been over 2 years now and I finally consider us real friends. I wasn't sure of him at first (he's an E-3 and I felt at first that I may have been just part of his larger plan to know everyone and be generally well-liked) but he's been completely solid and patient, ever ready to respond to me when I indicate that I want a response but never pushy. And now I trust him. Of course with friendship the stakes aren't as high and it can take longer without anyone getting frustrated or annoyed. But looking back, I can see that this was much the way things played out for us.

So why are you married to a fruit cake.

[redbaron]

So why are you married to a fruit cake.

that's not very nice.

[Satan]

that's not very nice.

No, it's not, I meant to say why are you married to an ESFj. Then I thought I could say ESE; then I decided to just screw it and go with the easy option.

So, why are you married to a fruit cake?

[Satan]

??

She's married to someone non-ideal. It's kind of like eating dessert for dinner, and wondering why you don't quite feel satisfied.

You might feel special when you're eight years old. The novelty wears off.

[Satan]

Ironic since you have no clue whether she's married to someone ideal or not.

In Socionics terms it's non-ideal. This is a Socionics forum. Do you have a problem?