Quote Originally Posted by Logos
Quote Originally Posted by Expat
Quote Originally Posted by Baby
Quote Originally Posted by Joy
Whether or not I'm correct is irrelevant to this example.
Actually I think it's quite relevant. Both and people (assuming that they are intelligent) will not accept something if it's wrong lol.
No, I agree with Joy. Regardless of who is right about it being ISTj or ESTj, the point is that the "IxFp" is caught in a logical loop. If you replace the phrase "that sounds more like an ESTj" with "are you sure ISTjs are like that?" the point is still made and it has nothing to do about "Joy" in that dialogue being right or wrong about ESTjs or ISTjs.
And how is that argumentative loop any different from the one Joy is using in that same dialogue?
Exactly.

Quote Originally Posted by Joy
It's not about whether or not they agree with me, it's about their reasoning for what they believe.
It's also about your reasoning for what you believe. There are two circular arguments here:

IXFp: ISTjs I know display traits XYZ -> this person displays XYZ traits as well -> therefore, this person must be ISTj
Joy: traits XYZ are displayed by ESTjs -> this person displays traits XYZ -> therefore, this person must be ESTj, not ISTj as IXFp is saying

Why should the IXFp have to "accept" the "information" Joy is presenting, and not vice cersa? They both stem from the same exact brand of premise.