this is how I feel about myself (and about IEEs in general)

[Olduvai]

Welcome to the Life of Adults.

lol, that makes me feel somewhat better, in a "maybe I'm not alone" type way. Lately I've been trying to be more "socially compliant", especially while at work. I've made a habit of saying "yes" to things and following through with my promises. I've decided to just "be myself" and not give a fuck what other people say or think. The result: I feel valued and respected by other people. So there has been progress, but I still feel pretty useless as a human being.

[Olduvai]

When it comes to typing people, you either understand the theory well enough to apply it properly and have a decent grasp of the person you're typing or you don't. He clearly does not.

Whatever, Ryene. I don't blame you for being skeptical, but I honestly think it's holding you back.

[woofwoofl]

I'm skeptical as to whether I'll be successful at anything, as it seems like I'm always "missing the point" or "doing it wrong".

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...plaining-to-do
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...hread-split%29

Johannes Kenneth Toby Mozart "Butt Commander" Keith Chesney typology anthem:

[Olduvai]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...plaining-to-do
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...hread-split%29

Johannes Kenneth Toby Mozart "Butt Commander" Keith Chesney typology anthem:

super ironic post here, @woofwoofl, because you're the king of "doing it wrong" and "missing the point" when it comes to socionics

you'll never understand, of course, but you're probably one of the dumbest people here as far as typing goes.

[applejacks]

@Kenneth Chesney -

I've been where you are. I put all of my hopes and dreams on an "ideal mate", and kept saying things like "when I find him, THEN I'll ______."

But let me explain what happens when you do find them. Life is amazing for 6 - 8 months. After that, all of those personal problems that were still lurking only became magnified under the microscope of a serious relationship, because now the person you love is witnessing you deal with them.

I am the perfect example for your expressions of loneliness. I always thought... "when I have a partner, I will no longer be lonely." But during our first year of marriage, when my partner was busy most days setting up a dental practice and too exhausted to go out and do things afterwards, I was lonelier than I ever was to begin with, because now I was married and couldn't go out and just get attention whenever I wanted it. So I finally had to learn to deal with it in healthier ways that wouldn't manifest bitterness or resentment, and now my husband had to watch me learn how to handle it, which as difficult. When someone you love sees the a less attractive side of you, it can be incredibly painful.

So when you build a relationship in which you expect your partner to MAKE you happy, it's a recipe for failure. In that example, I was under the assumption that my partner should MAKE me feel less lonely. But he was busy providing and setting up a future for me (for us!) He was giving love in a way that I was not receiving it, so I had to re-tune myself to understand that he was trying, but in a different way.

Bottom Line: Nobody can make you happy or less lonely or fix any problems you suffer personally. It's unrealistic for so many reasons, and if you don't understand that, you'll never be able to have a healthy, interdependent relationship. Human beings are complicated creatures. Somehow in our minds, we think adding one into our life will ONLY help us, but the truth is, it only complicates things further. To make it work, you have to be a sustainable, independent adult so that you can address both YOUR problems and any problems that arise in the relationship. Otherwise, the relationship is a dependent one, and eventually something will break.

If you've never had a serious relationship, none of that may make sense. But I'm telling the truth. You need to learn to be happy on your own first. Don't prolong your life and don't expect someone to come along and fix your problems, because it doesn't happen that way. I totally get that you're lonely, I've been there, but the more sustainable you become on your own, the better your relationship will be with someone in the future. Somehow, life only gets harder when you have a partner because you can't always have your way. Enjoy it now!

EDIT: This was directed not just to you, but to everyone. I only hope to share in my experience if only to spare others from making the same mistakes. But please understand, I do sympathize.

[Beautiful sky]

Honestly, yes. I truly don't think I'm good for much; I can type people but that's about it.

Being able to do this much you should be able to position yourself quite well in the social circle. Good luck with that because you can't type for shit let alone understand the nature of society and the role of individuals within it.

[InvisibleJim]

When it comes to typing people, you either understand the theory well enough to apply it properly and have a decent grasp of the person you're typing or you don't. He clearly does not.

Is this a case of incrimination just because some new person happens to have spoken to JoBlo?

Witch hunt much?

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Is this a case of incrimination just because some new person happens to have spoken to JoBlo?

Witch hunt much?

*blink* Are you serious? Really, I'm not sure if you actually misread or if you're just trying to twist this so you get to play "champion of the underdog" again. The problem, which seemed pretty clear to me, is that JB is trying to use that PM as evidence that Woof is ILE. The person he is citing is a self-admitted newbie who says outright that he/she doesn't have a strong grasp on the theory and works off of intuition and feeling. I don't give a damn who cited the newbie; the PM is shitty evidence, and it would be from anyone who tried to use it in an argument.

[InvisibleJim]

*blink* Are you serious? Really, I'm not sure if you actually misread or if you're just trying to twist this so you get to play "champion of the underdog" again. The problem, which seemed pretty clear to me, is that JB is trying to use that PM as evidence that Woof is ILE. The person he is citing is a self-admitted newbie who says outright that he/she doesn't have a strong grasp on the theory and works off of intuition and feeling. I don't give a damn who cited the newbie; the PM is shitty evidence, and it would be from anyone who tried to use it in an argument.

And what experience do you have of the newbie? Don't be arrogant.

For the record I think woofl is SEE.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

And what experience do you have of the newbie? Don't be arrogant.

It has nothing to do with arrogance. The combination of factors displayed in that PM is enough to make me doubt his/her typing ability until they prove otherwise. If a person who claimed a good grasp on the theory worked more off of "intuition" and "feeling" than reasoned arguments, I would doubt them as well.

[Radio]

IMO type is learned behavior, and likely not biologically innate. when you're born your psyche starts adapting to its environment in a way that is beneficial to yourself and your well-being. thus, every type is an adaptive function, not just IEE, and occasionally the following happens:

(...) traits that were at one time adaptive in a certain environment, are now "mismatched" to the environment that the trait is currently present in. This can present a number of problems for the types in question.

/2cents

[Olduvai]

Being able to do this much you should be able to position yourself quite well in the social circle. Good luck with that because you can't type for shit let alone understand the nature of society and the role of individuals within it.

aww, did I hurt your feelings? sorry babe

[Olduvai]

For the record I think woofl is SEE.

Jesus fucking Christ, why?

[Olduvai]

@Kenneth Chesney -

I've been where you are. I put all of my hopes and dreams on an "ideal mate", and kept saying things like "when I find him, THEN I'll ______."

But let me explain what happens when you do find them. Life is amazing for 6 - 8 months. After that, all of those personal problems that were still lurking only became magnified under the microscope of a serious relationship, because now the person you love is witnessing you deal with them.

I am the perfect example for your expressions of loneliness. I always thought... "when I have a partner, I will no longer be lonely." But during our first year of marriage, when my partner was busy most days setting up a dental practice and too exhausted to go out and do things afterwards, I was lonelier than I ever was to begin with, because now I was married and couldn't go out and just get attention whenever I wanted it. So I finally had to learn to deal with it in healthier ways that wouldn't manifest bitterness or resentment, and now my husband had to watch me learn how to handle it, which as difficult. When someone you love sees the a less attractive side of you, it can be incredibly painful.

So when you build a relationship in which you expect your partner to MAKE you happy, it's a recipe for failure. In that example, I was under the assumption that my partner should MAKE me feel less lonely. But he was busy providing and setting up a future for me (for us!) He was giving love in a way that I was not receiving it, so I had to re-tune myself to understand that he was trying, but in a different way.

Bottom Line: Nobody can make you happy or less lonely or fix any problems you suffer personally. It's unrealistic for so many reasons, and if you don't understand that, you'll never be able to have a healthy, interdependent relationship. Human beings are complicated creatures. Somehow in our minds, we think adding one into our life will ONLY help us, but the truth is, it only complicates things further. To make it work, you have to be a sustainable, independent adult so that you can address both YOUR problems and any problems that arise in the relationship. Otherwise, the relationship is a dependent one, and eventually something will break.

If you've never had a serious relationship, none of that may make sense. But I'm telling the truth. You need to learn to be happy on your own first. Don't prolong your life and don't expect someone to come along and fix your problems, because it doesn't happen that way. I totally get that you're lonely, I've been there, but the more sustainable you become on your own, the better your relationship will be with someone in the future. Somehow, life only gets harder when you have a partner because you can't always have your way. Enjoy it now!

EDIT: This was directed not just to you, but to everyone. I only hope to share in my experience if only to spare others from making the same mistakes. But please understand, I do sympathize.

I appreciate you, applejacks; you're the nicest supervisor a gal could ask for. I'm actually in the process of re-enrolling at my soon-to-be alma mater; I've got two classes I need to take before I can get my degree, and I'm hella excited to be done. I realized that I need to "make my own life"; I found the following scene from Castaway to be very inspirational:

(Castaway is my SLI friend's favorite movie)

[wacey]

@Kenneth Chesney -

Life is amazing for 6 - 8 months. After that, all of those personal problems that were still lurking only became magnified under the microscope of a serious relationship, because now the person you love is witnessing you deal with them.

Hah, for me it's 4 months, especially if we live together.

IMO type is learned behavior, and likely not biologically innate. when you're born your psyche starts adapting to its environment in a way that is beneficial to yourself and your well-being. thus, every type is an adaptive function, not just IEE, and occasionally the following happens:

(...) traits that were at one time adaptive in a certain environment, are now "mismatched" to the environment that the trait is currently present in. This can present a number of problems for the types in question.

/2cents

I think learned behaviour is certainly a factor. Could it not be said that a child has a defining personality type from birth though? For instance, at around 2 years old it could be said a child is "active", "shy", "outgoing", "sensitive", "shock-proof", "social", "independent", ect. Many adjectives used to describe young people, and how their outer behaviour matches or does not match the behaviour of their parents seem to suggest that in least in part cognition/ personality types are inborn.

I believe that adapting to ones environmental sociotypes is an activity that only enhances or supplements the development of ones in born sociotype.

[Park]

Ya, life can be hard in Baghdad.

[applejacks]

I appreciate you, applejacks; you're the nicest supervisor a gal could ask for. I'm actually in the process of re-enrolling at my soon-to-be alma mater; I've got two classes I need to take before I can get my degree, and I'm hella excited to be done. I realized that I need to "make my own life"; I found the following scene from Castaway to be very inspirational:

(Castaway is my SLI friend's favorite movie)

Thank you for sharing that! I didn't even remember that scene, but it's beautiful!

Identical, Supervisor, whatever... we all may be wrong. Bottom line is, we're human and we all need support. So I'm happy to hear you're taking the reigns. What will be your degree / field of study? Keep us posted! I struggled in finishing my degree because I kept changing my mind and wasn't sure what I'd do with my life, but Dad told me that the degree is just a "rite of passage." It's a trial of whether or not you can commit and follow through on something on your own. Once you do, you'll find doors opening up all around you, as long as you're looking for them. (He was right, in my case)

Best of luck! Let us know how it goes! (And thanks again for the clip!!)

[Olduvai]

Ya, life can be hard in Baghdad.

hahaha yes

[wacey]

Jesus fucking Christ, why?

Because a Ti-dom seeking Fe would have stopped responding to you a hundred posts ago.

[applejacks]

Hah, for me it's 4 months, especially if we live together.

Living together will certainly do it! Goodbye, honeymoon stage!

(Hello reality.. and a deeper sense of love, though!)

[wacey]

You Bet.

[Park]

hahaha yes

[Olduvai]

Because a Ti-dom seeking Fe would have stopped responding to you a hundred posts ago.

that's a bit of a stretch

[wacey]

Is it?

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Hah, for me it's 4 months, especially if we live together.



I think learned behaviour is certainly a factor. Could it not be said that a child has a defining personality type from birth though? For instance, at around 2 years old it could be said a child is "active", "shy", "outgoing", "sensitive", "shock-proof", "social", "independent", ect. Many adjectives used to describe young people, and how their outer behaviour matches or does not match the behaviour of their parents seem to suggest that in least in part cognition/ personality types are inborn.

I believe that adapting to ones environmental sociotypes is an activity that only enhances or supplements the development of ones in born sociotype.

It's a bit of both, IMO. I was way more assertive, loud, energetic, and focused on my surroundings as a kid; I'm now a good deal calmer and quieter, less confident about asserting myself (unless I'm comfortable/angry enough), and pretty much exclusively in my head. Given a healthier childhood and less assholish friends in early adolescence, I would have turned out quite different.

[wacey]

+10

[Reficulris]

Guys and Girls,

When you see Kechey post you KNOW your assumptions and his don't match one on one or even at all. But in this case he asked something personal, along the lines of "I feel misfit with my environment" maybe trying to figure out what he's dealing with and trying to match it to his language is more constructive than yet again, trying to prove one way or another is right.

That said, it's kinda complicated by the cross-typing that occurs simultaniously. Could we get a thread where people can settle that dispute rather than in this one? The OP of interest to me, the rest is not (@hkkmr)

Regarding the OP @Kenneth Chesney:

not sure this is an universal IEE problem, not all IEE's are in situations that are non-conductive to their happiness. Also not sure if it's solely IEE territory either; I think any type would feel at disease in an environment that is different than what it was "made" for. In that sense all types could theorethically be faced with this problem. If you construe the "situation" as "modern society" it kinda gets more specific a problem for the IEE. However, I'm sure that with the many subcomunities that exist in modern society there sould be ones that are IEE friendly.

I do follow KeChey in the line of reasoning that western modern society has certain standards, stereotypes, highlights, rollmodels etc that kinda deminish IEE's powers and or role. Male IEE's might suffer more than females because of slight differences in modern role devision.

Some in debt answers to your posts:

If "IEE" is a set of specialized adaptive mechanisms, and if specialized adaptive mechanisms were designed for solving past problems, then I think that "IEE" was designed to solve problems that were present during the early days of our species, problems that are no longer problems in our modern world. Furthermore, I think that the problems present in today's world are better solved by other types.

There is no lack of problems to be solved by IEE's. The thing is, those problems aren't sexy, hot, trending. The modern world values something consciously, but imho needs something else. underlying a lot of modern problems (inequality, depression, banking criseses etc) are a lot of problems that could be solved, or bettered by Delta influence. Sure, you might not get rich by doing that or getting a lot of attention, but you'll be lauered post mortum. I've always felt that, in most cases, delta's are always acknowledged AFTER THE FACT cuz the rest needs time to see what would have happened without them.

Because as you're now discovering, our thinking isn't very precise. I don't think this was an issue back in the day, as the problems that needed solving were simple and of a practical nature; but nowadays, the problems are complex and deep, and I don't think IEE possesses the mental rigor that is necessary to tackle them.

LOL Precize.... no... or yes. Not precize as deliniated, well demarked, systemized, factually accurate or logically provable. But I think that a lot of IEE thinking can be "precize" as in "spot on". I mean, I think you overestimate the role of precize thinking in this world. A lot of stuff doesn't happen due to logicallity or rationality or factual accuracy. Most things just "happen". Ask the bankers of the crisis and "it just happened", ask people about world poverty and "it just exists" there are logical explanations, but they are not sollutions. There is a lot that needs to be made sense of in a way that is NOT precize but more vague, if science will ever replace religion it needs to improve its story-teller skills since the complex whole of science is not adequate right now to solve existential questions, nor sooth people's losses nor provide equality or fairness. Sure, these are "fuzzy" subjects, but would you say they are "unimportant"? Maybe if you, as you said before, want to earn a lot of money, sure than they are outdated, but in terms of societies' needs they are essential. You're shortselling yourself!

You say "duties" like you owe something to society or to other people; I've never felt like I owed anyone shit. "Social obligation" is another "quality" I associate with Fe/Ti.

Ok, there's the answer, the role of your type ("duties") don't match with your personal wishes. That is hard. But it's NOT an indicator that IEE as a type are unneccesary or outdated. By framing it as "duties" you (and AJ) make it sound as an external thing, something outside of you. I think it's more of a personal fit, aptitude wise. Society has needs, so do you, the one hand washes the other. If that works out than great, if it doesn't you're in a bad situation

I've not been "isolated" necessarily, although my number of social contacts has definitely diminished over the past few years. Ultimately I am lonely; I am single and, despite having plenty of prospects, what I want is "true love". Unfortunately I've only met one female SLI in my life, and she wasn't "up to par" physically. I've been seeing lots of sexy female SLE (just the other day I had one tell me about her past sexual escapades, and it made me reconsider the whole "duality" thing; however, there is too much of a communication gap between us for a relationship to work), but they're way too socially demanding and emotionally needy for me. "Quiet", "independent", "kind", "understanding", "sensual", and "low-maintenance" are words I would use to describe my ideal mate. The female SLEs I've met have been "overbearing", "interpersonally demanding", "fundamentally unkind", "intolerant", "roughnecked", and "emotionally needy".

Yes that sounds bad. Moving might be the only way to solve that. Also, I don't think an IEE and SLE would be a great match, maybe fun short term, very draining long term. There is a controlling aspect to the SLE's needs where IEE's are kinda...rebellious children that actually DON'T need there parents.

I've absolutely thought about it, although "dreamed about it" might be the better way to put it. It's hard to move anywhere when Ti is your PoLR, i.e. when you give zero fucks about meeting obligations. I'm working on it, though; my goal is to end up somewhere warm, sunny, and sparsely populated.

Sounds like a plan! Also, I think Ne creativity can work around Ti lack. What I mean is you should try to find something that actually values what you bring to the table enough to forgive you your lack of reliability Ti wise. The creative arts have a lot of that, some communities are less "structured" than others. I think finding a fit might be a bit harder for you as IEE but in no way impossible. Can it be your Ni is feeding you negative future impressions? Your OP sounded kinda despirited,

As for love fixing the lonelyness. As AJ already said, it's not the safest strategy. It MIGHT work, or it might you co-dependant on eachother. Maybe dualization is different/better but I'm fairly committed to not date unless i'm feeling happy alone. That way its just a nice addition to your life, not the centrum (not sure I might overstate the importance you place on it anyhow, in which case disregard it).

TLDR: Might not be type related, go get your Ne in gear and get out to a nice sunny place and woo the girls with your witty social skills!

[Reficulris]

Fuck a slow connection, this was a double post!

[IBTL]

I've not been "isolated" necessarily, although my number of social contacts has definitely diminished over the past few years. Ultimately I am lonely; I am single and, despite having plenty of prospects, what I want is "true love". Unfortunately I've only met one female SLI in my life, and she wasn't "up to par" physically. I've been seeing lots of sexy female SLE (just the other day I had one tell me about her past sexual escapades, and it made me reconsider the whole "duality" thing; however, there is too much of a communication gap between us for a relationship to work), but they're way too socially demanding and emotionally needy for me. "Quiet", "independent", "kind", "understanding", "sensual", and "low-maintenance" are words I would use to describe my ideal mate. The female SLEs I've met have been "overbearing", "interpersonally demanding", "fundamentally unkind", "intolerant", "roughnecked", and "emotionally needy".

This is how I "understand" SLI/IEE... or how the "he", who was mentioned in this thread I'll assume, has filtered down the dynamics of SLI/IEE through lyrical analysis. Afterall, I'm only an IEI, so it's not very easy for me to give "proof" with overly logical methods. Exactly how does a girl scout succeed in life anyway? However she ****ing can! LOL

Ok...

Let's just say that Amy Winehouse is SLI (SiTeFiNe).

In her song "Amy Amy Amy", she talks about a coworker who "distracts" her, which stops her from doing the work that she hates (which is intentionally written in the present tense, being an ever-changing dynamic, I believe).

Let me give you a few lines to digest and see if you agree:
"Attract me till it hurts to concentrate" - Ne is valued here by Si
"Distract me, stops me doin' work I hate" - Ne is valued here by Si
"Although I've been here before" - Te ("to know")
"I think you'd wear me well" - Te
"Where's my moral parallel?" - Fi in relation to being a sexual, sensual Si
"It takes me half an hour to write a verse" - Te (not very practical for such a practical person, right?)
"He makes me imagine it from bad to worse" - Si as a form of "intellectual" sexuality
"My weakness for the other sex" - Si
"My train of thought spins right off track" - Te
"He's just too hard to ignore" - weak Ne --------------> weak Se for me = too hard to ignore the sweets!
"I'll let you know when you should stop" - Te
"Now from the picture my mind drew" - Si
"Creative energy abused" - Si taken over by Ne
"And all my lyrics go unused" - Te
"I drift off, I fantasize" - Si

As an extroverted, feeling intuitive type or an essence thereof, NeFiTeSi, you are the master of distraction to an SLI.

Now go find your own Amy before she overdoses on sensual distractions...! (I believe from personal experience within my family, that Blake Fielder, Amy Winehouse's object of affection, was ESFp and gave her drugs to break her down "piece by piece", but that's probably for another discussion.)






Unfortunately, I agree with you about SLE's. Maybe there's a healthy SLE that can prove otherwise?!

Communication via duality is theoretically much, much easier. You are right about communication gaps! I'm just too independent and sensitive (perhaps even afflicted by personality typology) to compete with SLE's who play "sadistic-like" games...

[Eliza Thomason]

From Wikipedia:


I think Delta as a whole might be "mismatched"; I think Deltas are better suited for hunter-gatherer, gift-based societies

Like Aboriginies?

[Olduvai]

Guys and Girls,

When you see Kechey post you KNOW your assumptions and his don't match one on one or even at all. But in this case he asked something personal, along the lines of "I feel misfit with my environment" maybe trying to figure out what he's dealing with and trying to match it to his language is more constructive than yet again, trying to prove one way or another is right.

That said, it's kinda complicated by the cross-typing that occurs simultaniously. Could we get a thread where people can settle that dispute rather than in this one? The OP of interest to me, the rest is not (@hkkmr)

Regarding the OP @Kenneth Chesney:

not sure this is an universal IEE problem, not all IEE's are in situations that are non-conductive to their happiness. Also not sure if it's solely IEE territory either; I think any type would feel at disease in an environment that is different than what it was "made" for. In that sense all types could theorethically be faced with this problem. If you construe the "situation" as "modern society" it kinda gets more specific a problem for the IEE. However, I'm sure that with the many subcomunities that exist in modern society there sould be ones that are IEE friendly.

I do follow KeChey in the line of reasoning that western modern society has certain standards, stereotypes, highlights, rollmodels etc that kinda deminish IEE's powers and or role. Male IEE's might suffer more than females because of slight differences in modern role devision.

Some in debt answers to your posts:

There is no lack of problems to be solved by IEE's. The thing is, those problems aren't sexy, hot, trending. The modern world values something consciously, but imho needs something else. underlying a lot of modern problems (inequality, depression, banking criseses etc) are a lot of problems that could be solved, or bettered by Delta influence. Sure, you might not get rich by doing that or getting a lot of attention, but you'll be lauered post mortum. I've always felt that, in most cases, delta's are always acknowledged AFTER THE FACT cuz the rest needs time to see what would have happened without them.
LOL Precize.... no... or yes. Not precize as deliniated, well demarked, systemized, factually accurate or logically provable. But I think that a lot of IEE thinking can be "precize" as in "spot on". I mean, I think you overestimate the role of precize thinking in this world. A lot of stuff doesn't happen due to logicallity or rationality or factual accuracy. Most things just "happen". Ask the bankers of the crisis and "it just happened", ask people about world poverty and "it just exists" there are logical explanations, but they are not sollutions. There is a lot that needs to be made sense of in a way that is NOT precize but more vague, if science will ever replace religion it needs to improve its story-teller skills since the complex whole of science is not adequate right now to solve existential questions, nor sooth people's losses nor provide equality or fairness. Sure, these are "fuzzy" subjects, but would you say they are "unimportant"? Maybe if you, as you said before, want to earn a lot of money, sure than they are outdated, but in terms of societies' needs they are essential. You're shortselling yourself!


Ok, there's the answer, the role of your type ("duties") don't match with your personal wishes. That is hard. But it's NOT an indicator that IEE as a type are unneccesary or outdated. By framing it as "duties" you (and AJ) make it sound as an external thing, something outside of you. I think it's more of a personal fit, aptitude wise. Society has needs, so do you, the one hand washes the other. If that works out than great, if it doesn't you're in a bad situation


Yes that sounds bad. Moving might be the only way to solve that. Also, I don't think an IEE and SLE would be a great match, maybe fun short term, very draining long term. There is a controlling aspect to the SLE's needs where IEE's are kinda...rebellious children that actually DON'T need there parents.

Sounds like a plan! Also, I think Ne creativity can work around Ti lack. What I mean is you should try to find something that actually values what you bring to the table enough to forgive you your lack of reliability Ti wise. The creative arts have a lot of that, some communities are less "structured" than others. I think finding a fit might be a bit harder for you as IEE but in no way impossible. Can it be your Ni is feeding you negative future impressions? Your OP sounded kinda despirited,

As for love fixing the lonelyness. As AJ already said, it's not the safest strategy. It MIGHT work, or it might you co-dependant on eachother. Maybe dualization is different/better but I'm fairly committed to not date unless i'm feeling happy alone. That way its just a nice addition to your life, not the centrum (not sure I might overstate the importance you place on it anyhow, in which case disregard it).

TLDR: Might not be type related, go get your Ne in gear and get out to a nice sunny place and woo the girls with your witty social skills!

wicked insightful, Ref; I really appreciate this response

EDIT: seriously though, thank you for this. I was kind of "fishing for something" with this topic, and you basically provided what I was looking for.

[Reficulris]

Like Aboriginies?

Like Dodo's!

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Guys and Girls,

When you see Kechey post you KNOW your assumptions and his don't match one on one or even at all. But in this case he asked something personal, along the lines of "I feel misfit with my environment" maybe trying to figure out what he's dealing with and trying to match it to his language is more constructive than yet again, trying to prove one way or another is right.

That said, it's kinda complicated by the cross-typing that occurs simultaniously. Could we get a thread where people can settle that dispute rather than in this one? The OP of interest to me, the rest is not (@hkkmr)

Um... People tried to address the OP itself and have constructive conversation. Good old "Kechey" started pushing his retyping of them and then lashed out at Woof for no good reason. It's all well and good for you to ask that type disputes and debates be kept out of threads like these, but the OP has to take responsibility for his end as well.

[Reficulris]

Um... People tried to address the OP itself and have constructive conversation. Good old "Kechey" started pushing his retyping of them and then lashed out at Woof for no good reason. It's all well and good for you to ask that type disputes and debates be kept out of threads like these, but the OP has to take responsibility for his end as well.

Either parties should be the wiser... I agree that both should take responsibility, but also both can end it. I don't mind which one stops, if we just can return to OP.
Also, this kinda continues it

Why couldn't you quote the Dodo's instead! :'( now they're extinct!

[Olduvai]

Um... People tried to address the OP itself and have constructive conversation. Good old "Kechey" started pushing his retyping of them and then lashed out at Woof for no good reason. It's all well and good for you to ask that type disputes and debates be kept out of threads like these, but the OP has to take responsibility for his end as well.

because it annoys me when people say, "I'm just like you, listen to me" when they clearly aren't anything like me

as for woof, he was being unkind

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Either parties should be the wiser... I agree that both should take responsibility, but also both can end it. I don't mind which one stops, if we just can return to OP.

I'm inclined to put the onus more on him, myself. But whatever. Not worth arguing over.

Also, this kinda continues it

A simple rebuttal to your statement isn't going to kill you.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

because it annoys me when people say, "I'm just like you, listen to me" when they clearly aren't anything like me

I won't disagree that they aren't like you, but would it kill you to take off the type glasses for five minutes and have a decent discussion with someone?

as for woof, he was being unkind

He marked a post Constructive and you vomited rage onto him. That's you being ridiculous, not him being unkind.

[Olduvai]

I won't disagree that they aren't like you, but would it kill you to take off the type glasses for five minutes and have a decent discussion with someone?

heh, fair enough. I guess "type" for me is like a pair of contacts you haven't taken out for sixth months.

He marked a post Constructive and you vomited rage onto him. That's you being ridiculous, not him being unkind.

Ever since we had our little spat in TinyChat, he's been marking Constructive any post made in disagreement with me. Anytime I get in an argument with someone, I see "woofwoofl marked this post as constructive" on every post made in opposition to mine. Talk about ridiculous.

[Eliza Thomason]

...
I think learned behaviour is certainly a factor. Could it not be said that a child has a defining personality type from birth though? For instance, at around 2 years old it could be said a child is "active", "shy", "outgoing", "sensitive", "shock-proof", "social", "independent", ect. Many adjectives used to describe young people, and how their outer behaviour matches or does not match the behaviour of their parents seem to suggest that in least in part cognition/ personality types are inborn.

I believe that adapting to ones environmental sociotypes is an activity that only enhances or supplements the development of ones in born sociotype.

I was going to agree with @Radio, then I thought about when my son was a baby and socializing with other Moms and their babies, who, from newborn had their own distinct personalities.

My son was calm almost all the time, rarely cried (just fussed, and I responded quick because I thought it was important to keep him content) except when he rarely did cry, it came on fast and sudden and he could really HOWL. Louder and fiercer than other babies. Now hes 17 and has pretty much not changed. Calm just about all the time, but, when he (rarely) gets mad, its sharp and fast and LOUD. Its a temperament he just seemed born with.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Ever since we had our little spat in TinyChat, he's been marking Constructive any post made in disagreement with me. Anytime I get in an argument with someone, I see "woofwoofl marked this post as constructive" on every post made in opposition to mine. Talk about ridiculous.

Maybe he just agrees with their posts. Regardless, I will look into it.