Unconventional, creative, artistic ESTjs
i would think that art is an Ne domain, so i'm curious to know if there are any prominent ESTj artists, and what their art is like. I imagine it's not a field they're typically drawn towards, but hey, I'm sure there are some unconventional ESTj's out there. The only people i can think of are actors (Daniel Craig, Clive Owen, Susan Sarandon...) but acting is more of a craft than an art...
artist? maybe
Uh...... I forgot about this one: SE POLR warning, it's kind of gruesome, but also actually somewhat interesting.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
You know, I can't really think of a lot of LSE's artists, I'd think most would find a career in the arts as too unstable and thus mainly apply artistic pursuits as hobbies...
So far the only famous possible LSE, who isn't an actor, that I can think of is the composer Joseph Haydn. A solid worker, good with money, bad at relationships, known as a sort of playful paternal figure to younger musicians (including Mozart, whom I think was an IEE)
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
Love Mike Rowe!Originally Posted by Ryu
He was an opera singer when he was younger, which I suppose make's him an LSE artist
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
I think Chris Martin of Coldplay is LSE
Any reason for this? I don't know a lot about him but my impression is EIE, and his wife IEI
But I would be interested in how you came to LSE
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
x
Thomas Alva Edison
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
--> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
Yah maybe, inventor=creator=artist, so I guess Edison can be considered an artist
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
Actually, he stole lots of ideas from Nikola Tesla. Anyway, I find his quotes really interesting.
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
I heard about that, he was a naughty LSE indeedActually, he stole lots of ideas from Nikola Tesla. Anyway, I find his quotes really interesting.
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
Probably the same reason he came to ENTp for me.
He seems Ej, Fi valuing (I don't get Fe from him in interviews at all), and from a subjective standpoint not boring (meaning not Ni ego lol).
Also I thought Gwyneth Paltrow was pretty archetypically INFj.
great job everyone, you have identified the two LSE's correctly...they are very smart, very supportive in causes, they love to develop things, have interest in the scientific procees, are excellent creative artists, travelers, a lot of stuff except they are dense in the area of understanding things they can't see or touch...which is what Ne primary and secondary do best.
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Oh please. . .we dont need such a lesson from you, nor your approval (which means nothing really, in context with all your other mistakes). What you are "teaching" in this post is the most rudimentary socionics that is common knowledge around here. We're not kindergarteners.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Yeah?
Look at the previous typings of LSE and see how bad they were...retype those people for fun and you will see.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
JESUS CHRIST A GHOST LET'S GET OUT OF HERE
Ne's love art because it's math, but we like it because it expresses our inner thoughts and feelings...esp INFj, but other types love art because of colors and style, something we can't understand.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
well, i think all art has a way of expressing the inner thoughts and feelings of the artist, regardless of their type...
I wouldn't say that INFj's don't understand colour and style. Vincent van Gogh invented Expressionism after all. Although I have seen a couple of 'ugly' sites hosted by INFj's...what is it with INFj's and ugly wallpaper?
I don't understand about the wallpaper thing...what do you mean?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Dolphin Cove, home of the INFJ List
wall paper that looks like old paper. it's not that bad to be honest. it has no glare, so it's easy on the eyes, which is a good thing, but yeah...
Where is his VI? I am a very plain and simple person, I wouldn't have done that.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Sorry, it doesn't look INFj.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
well i'm not sure that you're INFj. fraid i can't help with the VI pic. maybe send him/her an email for one, or check the members page on the site. There's a section with photos.
cartoon is funny but true. I can't find the pics sorry.
INFJ Defined - Dolphin Cove
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Here...again, bad self typing. Funny how everyone thinks they are N
Individuals' Photos - Dolphin Cove
This one's ESFP
http://www.infj.org/list/photos/individual/vicki.jpg
INTj here maybe or ESTj
http://www.infj.org/list/photos/individual/scottv.jpg
The guy here is ESTp...look at the way he looks into the camera...
the lady next to him is ESFp
http://www.infj.org/list/photos/indi...esmondat20.jpg
This elderly man, from the side is a J..an Fj
http://www.infj.org/list/photos/grou...96SD7.jpg.html
ISTp...compare the look to the intensity of ESTp above
http://www.infj.org/list/photos/grou...OPtop.jpg.html
This man is STp...
http://www.infj.org/list/photos/grou...6/colinbob.jpg
All here are ESFp women
http://www.infj.org/list/photos/grou.../BAD2.jpg.html
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 02-20-2010 at 05:56 AM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Hmmm, I'm inclined to disagree, but this is all a bit off topic.
Why can't Ni be subjective?
I suppose quasi's can seem similar, but I think IEI makes a lot more sense (search "Gwyneth Paltrow" here for my reasons if you're curious)Also I thought Gwyneth Paltrow was pretty archetypically INFj.
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
You guys talk a lot of bologne...
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
What's your typing and what do you base it on?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Oh I'm not saying Ni can't subjective, it's just my subjective opinion of him that he is not boring (That part of my argument was also meant to be comically unconvincing).
You should take that thing about gay people off, it's rude and offensive to human beings; it's not a nice thing to say.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
The functions are defined differently in MBTI though. MBTI Ni is not Socionics Ni, etc.Um...you guys DO realize Dolphin Cove is meant for INFJ aka MBTI? I realize the P/J switch is controversial and not always applicable, but under MBTI INFJ is
Not saying it can't be applicable to some INFjs across some ways, but it's certainly not a perfect conversion rate.
I always test INFJ on MBTI tests.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
That's true, i neglected to realize that. but you gotta admit, the site does come across as rather INFj (i.e. EII). anyhow, i was kidding about the wallpaper thing, so please no one take it to heart lol.
back to the main topic, opera singing is a craft like acting. opera composing would be an art. to really be an artist i think involves coming up with your own work, not just interpretting someone else's work. but i just realized that there does exist an artistic field (well, actually a design field that is very aesthetically orientated) in which ESTj's and ESFj's should theoretically thrive - FASHION
Fashion is very Si (comfort for the senses) and very Ne (novel ideas) at the same time. Clothing construction also plays an important role, i'm not sure what function that would require - Ti, Te? So one should expect to find many top designers who are very strong in Ne, Si, Ti, Te.
John Galliano (designer for Dior) looks like a normalizing ESTj (ESTj who pays attention to Ne), based on a superficial glance.
Georges Hobeika may also be ESTj (creative, Si and Ni strong).
Basil Soda may also be ESTj creative...
I was just watching Fashion TV, and it struck me how many designers were chunky-looking men with big, straight-bridged noses; big, flat, high foreheads; heavy, arched brows; and deep set, wide-eyed, piercing gazes.
As for designers who may be ESFj...
Karl Lagerfeld
Valentino
i'll also point out that my own mum is an ESTj and she is great at designing and knitting knit-wear. it's only her hobby, but she's pretty damn good. her designs aren't old and stodgy looking like most amateur knitters', but rather 'fresh'. of course, i am somewhat biased
ESTj's unless they are selling their design an knitting won't be doing much of that..actually none at all...so I am guessing Either ENTp, ISFp, ESFp, or INTp
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Erm.....I don't think it's type-related. All of us will have hobbies in which making money out of it is the last thing on our mind. In fact, I think connecting monetary gains with hobbies make them less enjoyable.
My mum is an ESTj. that i know. had you inquired further instead of making a snap judgment you would have found out that she gives her knitwear away as gifts to her friends, or more often than not, her friends' kids. It's a Caregiver/Si-producing behaviour (thinking about and taking care of ppl's physical state). where finances comes into play is in that it's much less expensive than buying an item of clothing.
Innate understanding of fabric and textiles, and the association between colour, shape, form, and function is related to being Si producing, so it would seem.
Last edited by xixi; 02-21-2010 at 07:10 AM.
I don't know about "prominent" or famous ESTJ artists.... but the two duals I've known personally (my ex & my grandfather) were both artistic.
They were both LSE subtype Si
My grandfather was interested in creating jewelry (he collected rocks at quarries,.. polished them, & created original casting in gold & silver for semi-precious stones) ...his art hobby.
he also designed & helped build his own home after retirement & was
also an excellent chef.
I'm assuming that being a gourmet can be included as artistry.
My ex graduated from art college ...1st job was to design miniture models for other companies to use as displays - later took jobs in designing the style & graphics in some sports equipment & for products in other companies.
My old dual has also done more (stereotypical) "normal" LSE type jobs as in managing, supervision, owning own companies, instructor -- but art was always an inspiration for my ex in some way....& at my ex's home.. there was always some interesting, funky art hobby happening (for example, imbeding tool bits in clear plastic that was turned into a see-through table top, -- sculpting.. & (like my grandfather)...my ex was a gourmet....and ...could design & do home construction solo (I was allowed to help paint sometimes, if I wasn't too clumsy) :wink:--
Ya, my dual considered (heh, another "typical" path for LSE) being a cop at a certain point in life...but chose a more artistic path --
That caregiving behavior is apart of F personalities...sorry, but, she doesn't sound ESTj; they aim for global goals not small ones (at all)
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
It's possible that she's ESFj, i've contemplated it. but her Fi kinda sucks.
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